Cipherdom (deprecated)

Are you making my point or yours? You criticized Cheney in the only area where you and he would appear to agree (i.e. philosophy on military service). You disparagingly quoted words that easily could have been yours. I find this highly ironic unless you were trying to support your thesis on hypocrisy's field day

>While I certainly understand the logic of
>your Cheney Viet Nam avoidance criticism,
>I don't understand the moral basis for it.

Quite correct. I have little right to sit in judgment of Kerry or anyone else who put his life on the line as he did. The admission of this fact is far from the only sense in which I differ from Cheney. If you can find anything he and I have in common apart from a lack of military service, I'd be surprised. Because my military experience is identical to Cheney's, who better to comment on the miserable SOB?

>It seems to me that you are criticizing
>the guy who thinks most like you. It's
>kind of a play on the old Groucho line,
>"I certainly wouldn't want a VP who thinks >like me."

I could be insulted but instead choose to take this is a compliment, as you're comparing me to someone you presumably admire. Do you admire Cheney? And if so, in the name of God, why?

Let's not stop there, though. How about Karen Hughes? She certainly makes an ideal Kerry critic, since women basically weren't in combat during Viet Nam, nurses notwithstanding. They should trot out Ann Coulter, too, since she was probably in grammar school. Pathetic though they are, they have infinitely more moral standing than Cheney.

Agree with you completely on Manning ... very cheap headline grabber.

I'm a little confused on the rest. While I certainly understand the logic of your Cheney Viet Nam avoidance criticism, I don't understand the moral basis for it. Whose view toward military service do you personally most identify with: Cheney or Kerry? I definitiely would have put you in the Cheney camp. It seems to me that you are criticizing the guy who thinks most like you. It's kind of a play on the old Groucho line, "I certainly wouldn't want a VP who thinks like me."

You run the risk of becoming Sean Hannity if you present logical arguments that lack moral conviction. Notice I didn't use Billl O'Reilly. I actually think O'Reilly believes what he is saying.

Am I wrong about this?

Hypocrisy is having a field day. Know-nothing sportswriters are associating the top NFL draft pick, Eli Manning, with the Tillman tragedy because . . . well, I guess, because no storyline is too simplistic or shameful for the American media. There is zero connection between the Manning kid's career ambitions and what Tillman did, unless the idiot writers want to call out individually every other selfish athlete -- no, let's make that "American" -- who is pursuing his bliss during a time of war. Very few of us would emerge unscathed. Start with the Humvee owners here whose vehicles should be requisitioned for the troops, who are protecting themselves by putting phonebooks on the dashboards of their un-armored vehicles because there aren't enough Humvees in Iraq. The sins of this Administration are many, but near the top of that list must be that it has asked for no sacrifice whatsoever from the general public to fight terror.

And before someone raises the shibboleth about Kerry's alleged lack of support for military appropriations, that brings me to the truly egregious hypocrisy displayed yesterday by our Vice President, whose remarks were such an embarrassment to the university president who hosted his speech that Westminster College has already invited Kerry to speak in rebuttal. I can't wait for that. Cheney, who stated he "had other priorities" more important than fighting in Viet Nam, came out and said what the Bush campaign operatives have been whispering to vets across the country: Kerry is unfit to lead during time of war. A bunch of technocrats who never wore a uniform are siccing attack dogs to question John Kerry's patriotism. Despicable. An outrage of the first order. The bully boys better watch out, or they're going to lose the honorable vets in their own party, like McCain and Hagel, who must be sickened by these gutter politics. I hope Kerry names Max Cleland as his VP.

I don't care how many PhotoShopped jpegs they produce showing Kerry next to Jane Fonda, Ho Chi Minh, or Mao for that matter. The fact is that this current war was started by a bunch of fanatics who, if they'd once tasted combat themselves, might have thought harder before committing the U.S. to an unnecessary conflict that will claim many thousands more lives before it ends. The only possible defense for their actions -- now that WMD is a dead issue -- would be if Iraq is in better shape when we turn over power than it was when we arrived. Does anyone really believe that will be the case? To be fair, I'll reserve judgment until Bush identifies how that transfer will occur, and to whom. He still has a little over two months to show he has a capacity for leadership beyond creating carnage.

PT and JWL - both from the Bay Area, fwiw.

Pat's younger brother, a minor league baseball player, also volunteered. Hopefully we won't be seeing Bush or Cheney throwing anymore first pitches.

Kinda strikes me as the other side of the coin from John Walker Lindh.