[FPSPACE] Luna 23 revisited

Sat Mar 17 19:27:40 EDT 2012

I wasn't making up a claim, as you put it. I was asking a question.
Another question: could this damage have occurred somehow in the decades since the spacecraft ceased to transmit? I don't know - a propellant tank overpressurizing and a burst disk not bursting, that sort of thing? Or a battery explosion? Or - well, I don't know, but it seems there'd be several sources of stored energy on board that might let go given an opportunity.
These are the kinds of questions we can formulate when we can see physical evidence on the lunar surface. Seems to me one would need to be foolish not to think about what we are seeing.
I should note that more than a battery and an aerial would need to survive a crash for the lander to transmit for a pre-planned three days.

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/

From: brharvey at iol.ie
Subject: Luna 23 revisited
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 20:57:41 +0000
To: dsfportree at hotmail.com

Dear David
Presumably (1) the statement was made in the official communique (2) the descent stage was pre-programmed to transmit for three days, as was the case with the other landers (probably data from radiation meter and thermometer) and (3) the battery and aerial survived the crash.  Granted that they had already admitted that the landing had failed, there was no reason to make up a claim like this.It's also possible they didn't realize how bad a crash it was.  Luna 18 they had lost on impact, but with L23 continuing to transmit they presumed only the drill was damaged.So I would give them the benefit of the doubt.
Brian Harvey

On 17 Mar 2012, at 17:37, David Portree wrote:Amazing stuff. One potentially cheeky question, tho: do we know for sure that Luna 23 transmitted for three days, or is that a Soviet-era claim that can't be independently substantiated? I don't mean any disrespect by asking that question, I'm just curious, since it *does* seem miraculous that it could transmit.

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/

> From: geert at navtools.nl
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:40:45 +0100
> To: FPSPACE at friends-partners.org
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Luna 23 revisited
> 
> Good day,
> 
> new, much more detailed and sharper, images have been released by the
> LROC team of both Lunochod moonrovers, as well as Luna 17, 23 and 24.
> 
> One of the most notable things is that Luna 23 is now very clearly
> seen as completely lying on its side!
> 
> http://www.lroc.asu.edu/news/uploads/luna23_figure.png
> 
> In an earlier message I already noted that I had the impression that
> it had a large tilt, based on the shadows it was casting, but the new
> image leaves no doubt at all that the craft was much more damaged then
> originally stated. Not just that the drill couldn't be operated or was
> damaged, the craft must have hit real hard, and toppled over as a
> result, causing very severe damage. Basically it's a miracle it still
> managed to transmit for 3 days in this condition..
> 
> It's successor, Luna 24, came very close to disaster also, landing
> almost on the edge of a deep crater (2.5 km from Luna 23),
> 
> http://www.lroc.asu.edu/news/uploads/LROCiotw/luna24_rev_fig.png
> 
> Finally, while Lunochod 1 clearly seems to be parked with its solar
> panel lid closed, Lunochod 2 still has its lid open, casting a very
> nice and clear shadow
> 
> http://www.lroc.asu.edu/news/uploads/M175070494LR_thumb.png
> 
> There are also good images of the Luna 21 lander stage, as well as
> Luna 17 and Lunochod 1.
> 
> Still missing is Luna 18 and didn't yet see a new high-res image of
> Luna 16 and 20.
> Especially if there is a new image of Luna 20, it might be worthwhile
> to continue the search for Luna 18, given what we now know about the
> condition of Luna 23 I guess we can expect something similar (or
> worse) for Luna 18.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Geert.
> 
> -- 
> Geert Sassen
> http://www.facebook.com/geert.sassen
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