From BKLong at yandex.ru  Sun Apr  1 01:35:42 2012
From: BKLong at yandex.ru (=?koi8-r?B?4c7E0sXF1yDzxdLHxco=?=)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:35:42 +0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] HVAP
Message-ID: <336101333258542@web147.yandex.ru>

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87087674/?????-??????-???

From davidlrickman at aol.com  Mon Apr  2 02:35:04 2012
From: davidlrickman at aol.com (David L. Rickman)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 02:35:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Looking for Contact Information for George P. Sutton
 "History of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines".
Message-ID: <8CEDEB1DF788F40-1FA4-EC5F@webmail-m074.sysops.aol.com>

FPSpacers,


I am looking for Contact Information for George P. Sutton, author of "History of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines".


Thanks in advance,


David L. Rickman
549 Caribou road
Asheville, NC  28803
USA






Follow my progress as I recreate the Soviet Lunniy Korabl spaceship in 1:5 scale at http://lunniykorabl.blogspot.com
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From dstdba at post4.tele.dk  Mon Apr  2 15:39:31 2012
From: dstdba at post4.tele.dk (Jens Kieffer-Olsen)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 21:39:31 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Details of DPRK satellite
In-Reply-To: <440D05BFCA474D589BC98909B3378F8C@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
References: <112C57780A0943588916C1E5FE753DE0@kb7woxPC>
 <000001cd0d4e$ac926d60$05b74820$@tele.dk>
 <440D05BFCA474D589BC98909B3378F8C@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
Message-ID: <001701cd1108$55d5add0$01810970$@tele.dk>


Sorry for being late to follow-up on your post, Phillip.

Others have already pointed to the fact that UK is not,
strictly speaking, a space-faring nation, since Woomera 
is South Australian, not English or Scottish territory.

That viewpoint is not surprisingly echoed by the North 
Koreans, who don't fail to also make the point that:

"The US space programme was heavily dependent on the 
expertise of Nazi rocket scientist Werner Von Braun.":

http://www.korea-dpr.com/forum/?p=1119

The point I wish to make here, however, is to draw 
a parallel between the North Korean doctrine of self-
reliance - Juche - and Robert Zubrin's vision of 
settlers being self-reliant after landing on Mars, 
'living off the land'.

Zubrinites may have a reputation in certain circles 
of being no less fanatical than followers of the Kim 
dynasty in Pyongyang, but why should self-reliance not 
be considered a virtue?

Receiving cargo from Earth occasionally is bound to 
be NICE, but will not life on Mars be more fulfilling 
for the colonists without a NEED for extra-planetary 
assistance?

--
Jens Kieffer-Olsen
Slagelse, Denmark


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Phillip Clark [mailto:phillipclark at btinternet.com] 
Sendt: 29. marts 2012 07:54
Til: FPSPACE
Emne: Re: [FPSPACE] Details of DPRK satellite

So long as the KSLV-1 uses a Russian-built first stage, I do not believe 
that we can classify South Korea as a "launcher nation".

To me, the parallel is the launch of Australia's WRESAT which used a United 
States Redstone and an Australian upper stage and which was successfully 
launched from Woomera.   No-one has ever claimed that this made Australia a 
"launcher nation".

When South Korea has a wholly South Korean launch vehicle then it can join 
the "club".

Phillip Clark


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jens Kieffer-Olsen" <dstdba at post4.tele.dk>
To: <fpspace at www.friends-partners.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Details of DPRK satellite


>
> That puts into perspective the 2009 article on the
> Korea Space Launch Vehicle-1 and its 100 kg payload
> http://www.physorg.com/news169892750.html :
>
> A successful launch would make South Korea the tenth country
> to put a satellite into orbit using its own rocket.
>
> Seoul has invested 502.5 billion won (419 million dollars) and
> much national pride in the 33-metre (108-foot) rocket, whose
> second stage was built by local engineers.
>
> Seoul also built the 100-kilogram (220-pound) scientific research
> satellite atop the rocket at the Naro Space Centre at Goheung,
> 475 kilometres (300 miles) south of Seoul.
>
> [snip]
>
> Washington, concerned about a possible arms race in Northeast Asia,
> has however sought to restrict South Korea's missile development.
>
> A 2001 accord with the United States bars Seoul from developing
> missiles with a range of more than 300 kilometres (187 miles).
>
> Science ministry officials have denied Seoul is using Russian
> technology because Washington refused to transfer the necessary
> know-how.
>
> --
> Jens Kieffer-Olsen
> Slagelse, Denmark
>
> [FPSPACE] Details of DPRK satellite
> Morris Jones morrisjones at hotmail.com
> Wed Mar 28 20:16:55 EDT 2012
>
>>From the Chosun Ilbo.
> North Korea on Wednesday revealed details of a satellite it says
> it is preparing to launch into space next month.An unnamed official
> was quoted by the official KCNA news agency as saying that the
> satellite, which is to be carried into orbit by a rocket, weighs
> 100 kg and has a lifespan of two years. It is equipped with a camera
> enabling it to send back pictures and other observational data, the
> official claimed.Experts say a proper working satellite would weigh
> 500 kg and have a lifespan of at least five years. A satellite expert
> at a state-run research institute here analyzed the comments and said,
> "A satellite weighing 100 kg would be an experimental satellite
> equivalent to the Uribyeol 2 and 3 we launched in the 1990s, but with
> that claim North Korea has practically admitted that the rocket being
> launched does not aim to put a working satellite into orbit. Such
> a small satellite could be mounted along with the payload of
> a rocket being launched by another country. There is no reason to
> build an expensive launch vehicle for it."He said this shows the
> North "is really only interested in testing the launch vehicle
> rather than putting a satellite into orbit."
>


From miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  3 03:45:37 2012
From: miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk (miriam harriott)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:45:37 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333439137.78126.YahooMailMobile@web171304.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://tuneshackpodcast.com/wp-includes/piecemaker-images/02efpk.html"> http://tuneshackpodcast.com/wp-includes/piecemaker-images/02efpk.html</a>
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr  3 19:12:33 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:12:33 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Journalist Bill Gertz: US is preparing to intervene (by
	shooting down) in NK satellite launch attempt
Message-ID: <75E9A1D276AA4786A08A0E4B466E7AF1@your94e826b122>

The Following news story states an X-band radar has been transported by sea
to the Korean area of operations.

 

http://freebeacon.com/red-alert/

 

Pentagon activates missile defenses for North Korean launch

 

 

By Bill Gertz

 

The Pentagon recently activated its global missile shield in anticipation of
North Korea's launch of a long-range missile, according to defense
officials.

The measures include stepped-up electronic monitoring, deployment of missile
interceptor ships, and activation of radar networks to areas near the Korean
peninsula and western Pacific.

Three interceptor ships near Japan and the Philippines, as well as
U.S.-based interceptors, are ready to shoot down the North Korean missile if
space-, land-, and sea-based sensors determine its flight path is targeted
at the United States or U.S. allies, said officials who spoke on condition
of anonymity.

The Obama administration will regard any launch by North Korea as a
violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions regardless of whether the
North Koreans claim the rocket test is for space launch purposes, the
officials said. The technology and rocketry used for a space launch is
nearly identical to that used with ballistic missiles that carry a warhead,
they said.

Also, because the payload or warhead of the test launch cannot be determined
prior to launch, the Obama administration decided to activate the missile
defense system.

According to U.S. officials, current intelligence assessments indicate the
North Korean missile will be launched from a base called Tongchang-ri,
located on a west coast peninsula north of Pyongyang between April 12 and
April 15.

The missile's first stage could impact in the Yellow Sea near South Korea
and the second stage could land east of the Philippines in the Pacific.

Satellite images published Monday show preparations for the launch are
continuing.

Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. April Cunningham would not say if missile
defenses were activated for the upcoming test.

However, Cunningham said, "North Korea's announcement that it plans to
conduct a long-range missile launch at any time would be in direct violation
of its international obligations."

U.N. Security Council Resolutions 1718 and 1874 "clearly and unequivocally
prohibit North Korea from conducting launches that use ballistic missile
technology," she said.

"Such a missile launch would pose a threat to regional security and would
also be inconsistent with North Korea's recent undertaking to refrain from
long-range missile launches," Cunningham said.

"The U.S. closely monitors threats to international security and has the
capability to respond if and when appropriate."

A U.S. official said the military's large, X-band radar that is based on a
oil-rig-sized floating platform sailed from Honolulu to waters near Korea on
March 26 as part of the activation.

Current U.S. missile defense systems include networks of radar and space
tracking gear, including ground- and sea-based radar, Aegis ships, and
long-range interceptor missiles based in Alaska and California. A total of
30 three-stage interceptors are deployed.

Any decision to shoot down the missile would be made by the president,
officials said.

The missile defense activation was briefly mentioned by Defense Secretary
Leon Panetta on Saturday during a meeting with reporters aboard the Navy
ship USS Peleliu. Asked what military steps were taken to deal with a future
North Korean launch, Panetta said the U.S. has "put whatever assets in place
that we need in order to deal with any contingency."

"We expressed our concern," Panetta said of the upcoming launch. "The
president of the United States made very clear that the North Koreans should
not do this. It is provocative. It's dangerous and it violates the
international law. And so our hope is that they will not do it. But as
always takes place in these kinds of situations, we have to be fully
prepared for any possibility-and we are."

Details of the missile defense deployments are classified. However, defense
officials said the measures include the stationing of three Navy
Aegis-equipped warships around Japan that are equipped with SM-3 missile
interceptors.

The U.S. missile defense deployments are being closely coordinated with
Japan's government and military, which has deployed two Aegis ships armed
with SM-3s, along with Patriot PAC-3 anti-missile batteries around Tokyo.

Japan's concern is that if the missile goes astray or breaks up, it will
target Japanese territory, and the shorter-range defenses will be used to
try and shoot down the debris before impact.

North Korea has announced that it is planning a space launch of a satellite.
But U.S. officials said the missile being readied on a launch pad north of
the capital of Pyongyang appears similar to North Korea's Taepodong-2
intercontinental ballistic missile.

U.S. officials also said that regardless of the configuration, the launch is
likely cover for a missile test since U.N. sanctions prohibit North Korea
from launching missiles.

According to the officials, the initial phases of the U.S. missile defense
activation include stepped-up intelligence gathering by spy satellites and
RC-135 Cobra Ball aircraft based at Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan.

Asked for details, a U.S. official would say only that "We've got what we
need to monitor a possible launch."

Cmdr. Leslie Hull-Ryde, a second Pentagon spokeswoman, declined to provide
details on the North Korean launch preparation but said, "We're monitoring
the situation very closely, along with our [Republic of Korea] counterparts,
to ensure the defense of the ROK."

"Through our combined capabilities, we can sufficiently monitor North
Korea's efforts," she said.

Hull-Ryde declined to discuss military operations, plans or intelligence but
said, "We stand ready to defend U.S. territory, our allies and our national
interests."

The last time missile defenses were activated on the current scale was 2009,
when North Korea conducted a test flight of a Taepodong-2 on April 5.

Prior to that launch, also announced by Pyongyang as a space launch, the
Navy deployed two Aegis ships in the Sea of Japan and one Aegis east of
Japan, according to a State Department cable made public by Wikileaks.

Also, in 2009, the military shared ballistic missile data with Japan from
the Shared Early Warning system and the AN/TPY-2 X-band radar located at
Shariki, Aomori, Japan.

The Seventh Fleet and the Japan Maritime Self Defense Forces carried out
aegis ship data sharing.

As the missile was being fueled, U.S. Forces Japan activated a 24/7 Crisis
Action Team with the Japanese military.

U.S. secrecy regarding its missile defense deployments contrasts with
Japan's openness on the issue. Japanese Defense Minister Naoki Tanaka on
March 23 ordered missile defenses prepared for the North Korean launch. The
preparations included Aegis warships and ground-based PAC-3 defenses.

The North Korean missile's likely flight path could take it over Okinawa.

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr  3 19:19:37 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:19:37 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Report: New long-range NK missile identified at R&D
	facility; may appear in upcoming military parade
Message-ID: <3F61EAE64496479C951B3961F3B2E6C1@your94e826b122>

 

Could this (alleged) new rocket be used in space launch attempts?  Perhaps
something larger like a biological capsule, or a manned capsule precursor?

 

Can anyone talk to that?

 

 

>From the UK Telegraph

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9182604/North-Kore
a-preparing-to-unveil-missile-capable-of-striking-continental-US.html

 

 


North Korea 'preparing to unveil missile capable of striking continental US'


North Korea is preparing to unveil a new long-range missile that is capable
of striking targets in the continental US. 


By Julian Ryall in Tokyo 

9:27AM BST 03 Apr 2012

Reconnaissance satellites have identified the huge missile at a government
research and development facility in Pyongyang, South Korean government
sources told the Chosun Ilbo newspaper. 

Analysts estimate the weapon to be around 130 feet long and, equipped with a
more powerful booster unit, capable of delivering a warhead more than 6,200
miles. 

Unveiling the missile will raise new fears in neighbouring countries,
already alarmed by Pyongyang's insistence that it will go ahead with the
launch in mid-April of a rocket to put a satellite into orbit. 

Washington, Seoul and Tokyo believe the launch is a covert test launch of a
missile. 

Analysis of the rocket, which is being prepared for launch at the new
Tongchang-ri aerospace facility in the far north-west of the country,
indicates that at 105 feet long it is identical in length to the Taepodong-2
missile that was fired in April 2009 and, with a range of 4,163 miles, is
the most potent missile in the
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/> North Korean
armoury at present. 

South Korean and US officials said they believe Pyongyang wants to show the
new missile off at the military parade scheduled for April 15 to mark the
100th anniversary of the birthday of the founder of the nation, Kim Il-sung,
or on April 25th, which marks the founding of the North Korean army. 

The government sources said they were unable to determine whether the weapon
is functional or "a life-size mock-up" at present. 

Tokyo is taking the threat posed by the planned launch of the North Korean
rocket, announced for between April 12 and 16, seriously and is sending 450
troops to the southern island of Ishigaki to man Patriot Advanced
Capability-3 interceptor missiles. 

The Japanese government has stated that it will shoot down the rocket if it
threatens Japanese territory. 

Tokyo is also deploying state-of-the-art Aegis warships in the East China
Sea to monitor the launch. The vessels will be protected by F-15 fighters.

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr  3 21:44:52 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 21:44:52 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could the
	Columbia have been saved?
Message-ID: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>

On the local PBS station this evening they showed the BBC Horizon special
"Guide to the Space Shuttle."

 

One thing completely jumped out at me (besides the error claiming that
Salyut 1 was still up in space until Mir, when they intended to mean a
series of Salyut stations), was a short clip of our own fpspacer JimO, when
they were talking about the Columbia disaster.

 

The scenario that was explored was that if NASA had decided to investigate
the impact of the external tank insulation on the orbiter wing while the
mission was still on-going, and had they had some way of looking at it (they
showed a terrestrial telescope somewhere..perhaps Palomar, perhaps something
else), found out that the wing was compromised, could NASA have saved the
Shuttle Columbia.  They also brought up having a rescue mission by another
Shuttle, or have an astronaut do a spacewalk to look at the bottom of the
craft..

 

Now they had this very short clip of JimO appearing to say that Columbia
could've side-slipped its way through re-entry and possibly survived, where
the right side of the Shuttle could've borne the brunt of the re-entry (I
believe it was the left wing that had the damage), and possibly could've
saved the Shuttle from breaking up.

 

JimO, do you believe that this scenario is viable (the documentary was
issued in 2010)?  That they could've side-slipped (the term used by JimO in
the video clip I believe was "crabbed") in?  Was there more to your
interview JimO that they left out?

 

Does this sound viable?  Does this sound do-able?

 

I am putting this out there to those who may know more about this.  Because
that would have had to have been at least a good long while (not mere
seconds or mere minutes, like two or three or even ten) to engage this
proposed side-slip..

 

I find the suggestion by JimO interesting, but I don't know whether it
could've possibly have been a viable method.  Hence this inquiry to the
assembled.

 

Hold forth with your opinions.  I am willing to read what others think.

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Tue Apr  3 23:26:39 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 03:26:39 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: [Launch Alert] Delta IV Launched
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS25B04A2E17A0253A64D54E9C320@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Launch Alert
Sent: 4/4/2012 2:22:43 AM
To: Launch Alert
Subject: [Launch Alert] Delta IV Launched

                             LAUNCH ALERT

                              Brian Webb
                     Ventura County, California
                  launch-alert-editor at earthlink.net
                        www.spacearchive.info<http://www.spacearchive.info>

                                  2012 April 3 (Tuesday) 19:15 PDT
----------------------------------------------------------------------

 UNITED LAUNCH ALLIANCE DELTA IV ROCKET SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHES PAYLOAD
               FOR THE NATIONAL RECONNAISSANCE OFFICE
                          ULA News Release

Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif., (April 3, 2012) - A United Launch
Alliance (ULA) Delta IV rocket carrying a payload for the National
Reconnaissance Office (NRO) lifted off from Space Launch Complex-6
here at 4:12 p.m. PDT today. Designated NROL-25, the mission is in
support of national defense.

"Congratulations to the NRO and to all the mission partners involved
in this critical national security launch," said Jim Sponnick, ULA
vice president, Mission Operations. "ULA is proud to have supported
this mission and delivered critical capabilities to the men and women
defending our freedom throughout the world.

NROL-25 represents the first of five National Security Space missions
that will be launched by the EELV program over the next four months -
including four NRO missions along with the upcoming AEHF-2 launch.

This mission was launched aboard a Delta IV Evolved Expendable Launch
Vehicle (EELV) Medium-plus 5,2 configuration vehicle, using a ULA
single common booster core powered by a Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne
RS-68 main engine, along with two Alliant Techsystems GEM 60 solid
rocket motors. The five-meter diameter upper stage was powered by a
PWR RL10B-2 engine with the satellite encapsulated in a five-meter
diameter composite payload fairing. This was the first launch of this
Delta IV vehicle configuration.

Developed by the United States Air Force to assure access to space for
Department of Defense and other government payloads, the EELV Program
supports the full range of government mission requirements, while
delivering on schedule and providing significant cost savings over the
heritage launch systems.

ULA's next launch is the Atlas V AEHF-2 mission for the U.S. Air Force
scheduled in early May from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral
Air Force Station, Fla.

ULA program management, engineering, test, and mission support
functions are headquartered in Denver, Colo.  Manufacturing, assembly
and integration operations are located at Decatur, Ala., and
Harlingen, Texas. Launch operations are located at Cape Canaveral AFS,
Fla., and Vandenberg AFB, Calif.

For more information on ULA, visit the ULA Web site at
www.ulalaunch.com<http://www.ulalaunch.com>, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321
(852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch<http://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch> and
twitter.com/ulalaunch.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2012, Brian Webb. All rights reserved. No portion of this
newsletter may be used without identifying Launch Alert as the
source and providing a functioning hyperlink or text that point to
http://www.spacearchive.info/newsletter.htm.


______________________________________________________________
Launch-Alert mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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From kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za  Wed Apr  4 05:43:11 2012
From: kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za (Keith Gottschalk)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 11:43:11 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] US is preparing to intervene (by shooting down) in NK
 satellite launch attempt
In-Reply-To: <75E9A1D276AA4786A08A0E4B466E7AF1@your94e826b122>
References: <75E9A1D276AA4786A08A0E4B466E7AF1@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <4F7C33CF020000A60001BAD5@uwc.ac.za>

         On the one hand, this comes across as staggering, over-the-top
reactions to a satellite launch. The cost of this huge US naval &
Japanese anti-missile deployment must approach a hundred million dollars
in total, including personnel & logistics, when all armed services have
had budget cuts.
 
       On the other hand, a political scientist must say that the North
Korean oligarchy brought this entirely upon themselves by:
 
1) repeated bellicose, belligerent, verbal threats to South Korea &
others;
 
2) Acts of War, such as torpedoing that South Korean naval ship, &
artillery bombardments; each of which alone would have justified a
proportionate response in kind;
 
3) repeated abductions of unarmed Japanese civilians in submarines -
move over Roswell & ETs! This is skating the borderline of acts of war?
Most bizarrely, those Japanese civilians (not all) who managed to
eventually escape or be repatriated to Japan relate that they were used
simply as forced labour to teach Japanese to some Korean officials.
Obviously the North Korean oligarchy could have easily hired some
Japanese communist party volunteer, or some unemployed language teacher
for that. These must rank as amongst the most gratuitous of state
abductions.
 
     We now wait to see if Baby Kim's first decade of rule will be any
different to Daddy Kim & Granddaddy Kim.
 
- Keith.


>>> On 2012/04/04 at 01:12 AM, in message
<75E9A1D276AA4786A08A0E4B466E7AF1 at your94e826b122>, "Peter Pesavento"
<pjp961 at svol.net> wrote:


The Following news story states an X-band radar has been transported by
sea to the Korean area of operations.
 
http://freebeacon.com/red-alert/
 
Pentagon activates missile defenses for North Korean launch
 
 
By Bill Gertz
 
The Pentagon recently activated its global missile shield in
anticipation of North Korea*s launch of a long-range missile, according
to defense officials.
The measures include stepped-up electronic monitoring, deployment of
missile interceptor ships, and activation of radar networks to areas
near the Korean peninsula and western Pacific.
Three interceptor ships near Japan and the Philippines, as well as
U.S.-based interceptors, are ready to shoot down the North Korean
missile if space-, land-, and sea-based sensors determine its flight
path is targeted at the United States or U.S. allies, said officials who
spoke on condition of anonymity.
The Obama administration will regard any launch by North Korea as a
violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions regardless of whether the
North Koreans claim the rocket test is for space launch purposes, the
officials said. The technology and rocketry used for a space launch is
nearly identical to that used with ballistic missiles that carry a
warhead, they said.
Also, because the payload or warhead of the test launch cannot be
determined prior to launch, the Obama administration decided to activate
the missile defense system.
According to U.S. officials, current intelligence assessments indicate
the North Korean missile will be launched from a base called
Tongchang-ri, located on a west coast peninsula north of Pyongyang
between April 12 and April 15.
The missile*s first stage could impact in the Yellow Sea near South
Korea and the second stage could land east of the Philippines in the
Pacific.
Satellite images published Monday show preparations for the launch are
continuing.
Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. April Cunningham would not say if missile
defenses were activated for the upcoming test.
However, Cunningham said, *North Korea*s announcement that it plans to
conduct a long-range missile launch at any time would be in direct
violation of its international obligations.*
U.N. Security Council Resolutions 1718 and 1874 *clearly and
unequivocally prohibit North Korea from conducting launches that use
ballistic missile technology,* she said.
*Such a missile launch would pose a threat to regional security and
would also be inconsistent with North Korea*s recent undertaking to
refrain from long-range missile launches,* Cunningham said.
*The U.S. closely monitors threats to international security and has
the capability to respond if and when appropriate.*
A U.S. official said the military*s large, X-band radar that is based
on a oil-rig-sized floating platform sailed from Honolulu to waters near
Korea on March 26 as part of the activation.
Current U.S. missile defense systems include networks of radar and
space tracking gear, including ground- and sea-based radar, Aegis ships,
and long-range interceptor missiles based in Alaska and California. A
total of 30 three-stage interceptors are deployed.
Any decision to shoot down the missile would be made by the president,
officials said.
The missile defense activation was briefly mentioned by Defense
Secretary Leon Panetta on Saturday during a meeting with reporters
aboard the Navy ship USS Peleliu. Asked what military steps were taken
to deal with a future North Korean launch, Panetta said the U.S. has
*put whatever assets in place that we need in order to deal with any
contingency.*
*We expressed our concern,* Panetta said of the upcoming launch. *The
president of the United States made very clear that the North Koreans
should not do this. It is provocative. It*s dangerous and it violates
the international law. And so our hope is that they will not do it. But
as always takes place in these kinds of situations, we have to be fully
prepared for any possibility*and we are.*
Details of the missile defense deployments are classified. However,
defense officials said the measures include the stationing of three Navy
Aegis-equipped warships around Japan that are equipped with SM-3 missile
interceptors.
The U.S. missile defense deployments are being closely coordinated with
Japan*s government and military, which has deployed two Aegis ships
armed with SM-3s, along with Patriot PAC-3 anti-missile batteries around
Tokyo.
Japan*s concern is that if the missile goes astray or breaks up, it
will target Japanese territory, and the shorter-range defenses will be
used to try and shoot down the debris before impact.
North Korea has announced that it is planning a space launch of a
satellite. But U.S. officials said the missile being readied on a launch
pad north of the capital of Pyongyang appears similar to North Korea*s
Taepodong-2 intercontinental ballistic missile.
U.S. officials also said that regardless of the configuration, the
launch is likely cover for a missile test since U.N. sanctions prohibit
North Korea from launching missiles.
According to the officials, the initial phases of the U.S. missile
defense activation include stepped-up intelligence gathering by spy
satellites and RC-135 Cobra Ball aircraft based at Kadena Air Base in
Okinawa, Japan.
Asked for details, a U.S. official would say only that *We*ve got what
we need to monitor a possible launch.*
Cmdr. Leslie Hull-Ryde, a second Pentagon spokeswoman, declined to
provide details on the North Korean launch preparation but said, *We*re
monitoring the situation very closely, along with our [Republic of
Korea] counterparts, to ensure the defense of the ROK.*
*Through our combined capabilities, we can sufficiently monitor North
Korea*s efforts,* she said.
Hull-Ryde declined to discuss military operations, plans or
intelligence but said, *We stand ready to defend U.S. territory, our
allies and our national interests.*
The last time missile defenses were activated on the current scale was
2009, when North Korea conducted a test flight of a Taepodong-2 on April
5.
Prior to that launch, also announced by Pyongyang as a space launch,
the Navy deployed two Aegis ships in the Sea of Japan and one Aegis east
of Japan, according to a State Department cable made public by
Wikileaks.
Also, in 2009, the military shared ballistic missile data with Japan
from the Shared Early Warning system and the AN/TPY-2 X-band radar
located at Shariki, Aomori, Japan.
The Seventh Fleet and the Japan Maritime Self Defense Forces carried
out aegis ship data sharing.
As the missile was being fueled, U.S. Forces Japan activated a 24/7
Crisis Action Team with the Japanese military.
U.S. secrecy regarding its missile defense deployments contrasts with
Japan*s openness on the issue. Japanese Defense Minister Naoki Tanaka on
March 23 ordered missile defenses prepared for the North Korean launch.
The preparations included Aegis warships and ground-based PAC-3
defenses.
The North Korean missile*s likely flight path could take it over
Okinawa.
 
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All Email originating from UWC is covered by disclaimer http://www.uwc.ac.za/emaildisclaimer


From miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  4 07:13:44 2012
From: miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk (miriam harriott)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 12:13:44 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333538024.87153.YahooMailMobile@web171306.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://www.semeco.net/files/gimgs/jrklre.html"> http://www.semeco.net/files/gimgs/jrklre.html</a>
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Wed Apr  4 22:47:50 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 22:47:50 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Plutonium to Pluto: Russian nuclear space travel
	breakthrough
Message-ID: <BAY170-W12003FA030E6EBBF0FB12DF9C330@phx.gbl>





Plutonium to Pluto: Russian nuclear space travel breakthrough
Moscow, Russia (RIA Novosti) Apr 05, 2012 - A ground-breaking Russian nuclear space-travel propulsion system will be ready by 2017 and will power a ship capable of long-haul interplanetary missions by 2025, giving Russia a head start in the outer-space race.   The megawatt-class nuclear drive will function for up to three years and produce 100-150 kilowatts of energy at normal capacity.   The new project proposes the use of an ele ...more http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Plutonium_to_Pluto_Russian_nuclear_space_travel_breakthrough_999.html   		 	   		  
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From miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr  5 02:28:34 2012
From: miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk (miriam harriott)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:28:34 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333607314.27610.YahooMailMobile@web171302.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://elizabethlantagne.com/wp-content/plugins/extended-comment-options/fjgvkd.html"> http://elizabethlantagne.com/wp-content/plugins/extended-comment-options/fjgvkd.html</a>
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From svengrahn at bahnhof.se  Thu Apr  5 11:08:53 2012
From: svengrahn at bahnhof.se (Sven Grahn)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:08:53 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] FIA Radar 2 picked up again today. Fading!
Message-ID: <807BF49C66744DA09561028310AE0758@SvempaQ>

Picked it up today April 5 at 1415.20-1425.20 UT. CA 1422.00 UT. Fading every 7 seconds approx. Fx=2242.5 MHz. Fading also observed over U.S. Last night I observed no fading over Europe. Has it started tumbling?

BTW this S/C is the one launched from Vandenberg the other day on a Delta 4.

Sven
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From miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  6 14:52:34 2012
From: miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk (miriam harriott)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 19:52:34 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333738354.98444.YahooMailMobile@web171303.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://en2art.com/working/swinglabs/deliverables/working/rmngl.html"> http://en2art.com/working/swinglabs/deliverables/working/rmngl.html</a>
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  8 23:55:02 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 03:55:02 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 update
Message-ID: <BAY160-W5280D4C31D9E97B9BE46CAAA370@phx.gbl>


>From Yonhap: News of a possible April 12-13 launch? This would narrow the window.
------------------
SEOUL, April 9 (Yonhap) -- North Korea is expected to begin fueling a long-range rocket soon, the final step toward its launch set for as early as this week, a South Korean official said Monday.   "North Korea has only fueling remaining after completing the installation of three stages of boosters on a launch pad," the official said on condition of anonymity. "Fueling is expected to begin soon, considering it usually takes two to three days."
Pyongyang says the Unha-3 rocket will blast off between April 12-13 to put what it claims is a satellite into orbit. South Korea, the United States and other regional powers view the claim as a pretext to disguise a banned missile test.   In an attempt to bolster its case, the North has invited foreign journalists and experts to observe the launch. Reporters from more than 20 media firms have arrived in the communist nation, according to state media.   Foreign journalists and space experts have toured the launching station in the country's northwestern area of Cholsan, Pyongyang's official Korean Central News Agency reported Monday.------------------------

Morris JonesSydney

 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  9 18:48:54 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 22:48:54 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] DPRK plans satellite launches from both sites
Message-ID: <BAY160-W297A361EA60DE9BF793D3AA370@phx.gbl>


>From the Mainichi Daily news.

http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20120409p2g00m0dm080000c.html

North Korea plans use two rocket launch sites, one on the eastern coast and the other on the west, for its space program, according to a North Korean government official.The official, who briefed foreign journalists on Sunday about preparations for the nation's upcoming satellite launch in Tongchang-ri on the northwestern coast, said North Korea has a "concrete plan" for a satellite launch from the launch site at Musudan-ri in the country's northeast close to the Sea of Japan coast.North Korea on Sunday allowed foreign media outlets, including Kyodo News, an unprecedented visit to the launch site in Tongchang-ri, North Pyongan Province, where Pyongyang said it will launch an "earth observation satellite" between April 12 and 16.

Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Mon Apr  9 19:09:30 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 19:09:30 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] North Korean launch vehicle and satellite...first
	impressions
Message-ID: <E5FD65FCF96B40C3A8B9F276496FA09C@your94e826b122>

These are my impressions after seeing some footage of both the rocket and
satellite on the CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley at 6:30 PM EDT this
evening.

 

There were decently clear views of the rocket on the pad, and what struck me
is that there was one very close view of the first stage on the pad (lowest
part of it) that appeared to show that the paint on the first stage was
flaking off-it did not appear to be fresh paint, and the first stage rocket
skirt looked rather dingy.  Since it was not being fuelled at the time of
this released videotape, I am not certain why the paint was flaking off, or
why the first stage looked a bit shop-worn.

 

They also showed a model of the satellite inside a room with a North Korean
technician who was wearing an all-white clean room outfit holding a pointer.
The completely square, dark-colored satellite didn't strike me as an
observation type of satellite.  It appeared to be more of something akin to
a communications satellite. There was some very shiny gold plated
accoutrements sticking out the top of the satellite, but the views were not
of the lingering type, so I couldn't make out for certain what I was looking
at.

 

Those are some of my first impressions.

 

If others have some from viewing the materials on broadcasts, please post
them.

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From svengrahn at bahnhof.se  Tue Apr 10 01:29:37 2012
From: svengrahn at bahnhof.se (Sven Grahn)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 07:29:37 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] North Korean launch vehicle and satellite...first
	impressions
In-Reply-To: <E5FD65FCF96B40C3A8B9F276496FA09C@your94e826b122>
References: <E5FD65FCF96B40C3A8B9F276496FA09C@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <E7A43D74-9DAC-4F4A-BD6E-496B8B5B77F5@bahnhof.se>

I agree, the rocket looks like a mockup for training ground crews in erecting tje rocket on the pad. Saw such a practice rocket at Jiuquan many years ago.

Sven

Sent from my iPhone

Sven Grahn
R?ttviksv?gen 44
192 71 Sollentuna
Sweden 
Mobile: +46 70 3443844
svengrahn at Bahnhof.se
www.svengrahn.pp.se
Skype sven.grahn1


10 apr 2012 kl. 01:09 skrev "Peter Pesavento" <pjp961 at svol.net>:

> These are my impressions after seeing some footage of both the rocket and satellite on the CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley at 6:30 PM EDT this evening.
>  
> There were decently clear views of the rocket on the pad, and what struck me is that there was one very close view of the first stage on the pad (lowest part of it) that appeared to show that the paint on the first stage was flaking off?it did not appear to be fresh paint, and the first stage rocket skirt looked rather dingy.  Since it was not being fuelled at the time of this released videotape, I am not certain why the paint was flaking off, or why the first stage looked a bit shop-worn.
>  
> They also showed a model of the satellite inside a room with a North Korean technician who was wearing an all-white clean room outfit holding a pointer.  The completely square, dark-colored satellite didn?t strike me as an observation type of satellite.  It appeared to be more of something akin to a communications satellite. There was some very shiny gold plated accoutrements sticking out the top of the satellite, but the views were not of the lingering type, so I couldn?t make out for certain what I was looking at.
>  
> Those are some of my first impressions.
>  
> If others have some from viewing the materials on broadcasts, please post them.
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 10 02:32:23 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 06:32:23 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 launch and weather
Message-ID: <BAY160-W170C5FB60A4657744A22DBAA340@phx.gbl>


It seems probable that weather will influence the launch date for Unha-3, just like any other rocket launch.
The North Koreans will want to avoid extreme conditions, and would also presumably want clear skies so they can observe the launch.
Current weather forecasts for North Korea suggest cloudy skies for the days ahead.
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/47058.html

A day with partial cloud should be acceptable. Of course, weather can change rapidly. 
Morris Jones Sydney


 		 	   		  
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From ambonnici at onvol.net  Tue Apr 10 08:06:05 2012
From: ambonnici at onvol.net (Alex Michael Bonnici)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:06:05 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] NASA confirms that Earth has received an Extraterrestrial
	message! : )
Message-ID: <425CF782B0DF4500A9064CA0A9C82211@AlexPC>

 

NASA confirms that Earth has received an Extraterrestrial message!

EXTRA, EXTRA, EXTRA, READ ALL ABOUT IT: THE SUN SENDS US A RUDE
MESSAGE!!!!!! Believers in the 2012 end-times conspiracy got a boost
today!!!!

http://www.3news.co.nz/Sun-flips-the-bird-in-new-NASA-photo/tabid/1160/artic
leID/246502/Default.aspx

Alex Michael Bonnici 

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr 10 14:54:50 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:54:50 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK satellite is apparently a weather satellite...as
	confirmed by US NSC spokesman
Message-ID: <76A19953D03E451C8F3071D0BF51F4AF@your94e826b122>

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/white-house-condemns-north-korea-rocket-p
ropaganda-154427788.html

 

 


North Korea rocket 'propaganda' condemned by White House


By Oliver Knox "The Ticket"

 

The White House on Tuesday denounced secretive North Korea's overtures to
international news outlets ahead of a long-range rocket launch as
"propaganda." It also mocked the impoverished Stalinist regime's claim that
it merely aims to put a weather satellite in orbit, saying it should just
"go to weather.com
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ApyLyO3nyseYIie3pHPBzgebCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFoNjRm
YmZuBG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_yl
g=X3oDMTNjZ290bmk4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDljYWRmNTgtMjE3NS0zNj
ZhLWI0MzgtODNiMGZjYWQzNTRiBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhldGlja2V0BHB0A3N0b3J5cG
FnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=0/SIG=11b430mjc/EXP=1335293578/**http%3A/www.weather.com
/> ."

Taking aim at North Korea's unprecedented
<http://news.yahoo.com/rice-paddies-rocketry-journey-n-korea-221411222.html;
_ylt=AuFMMOKnbLxMHWqa1oQRgR6bCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFocm9hZXB0BG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEc
G9zAzIEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_ylg=X3oDMTNjZ290bmk4BGludGw
DdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDljYWRmNTgtMjE3NS0zNjZhLWI0MzgtODNiMGZjYWQzNTR
iBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhldGlja2V0BHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=3>
media blitz ahead of the planned launch, U.S. National Security Council
spokesman Tommy Vietor told reporters that "you don't have to be a rocket
scientist to know this is propaganda. North Korea is trying to advance, test
and show off its ballistic missile technology. The U.N. bans this activity,
which is why they're using the press to pretend it's a satellite launch."

"North Korea doesn't need to spend this kind of money on a weather
satellite," Vietor said in an emailed statement. "Go to weather.com
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AinkhPfV5JC_hJHkXdmun9GbCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFoYzYw
OGR0BG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzMEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_yl
g=X3oDMTNjZ290bmk4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDljYWRmNTgtMjE3NS0zNj
ZhLWI0MzgtODNiMGZjYWQzNTRiBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhldGlja2V0BHB0A3N0b3J5cG
FnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=0/SIG=117jrasps/EXP=1335293578/**http%3A/weather.com/> .
Reporters visiting North Korea just to cover this launch are missing the
real story-history is passing North Korea by, and millions of innocent
people are starving to death because the regime spends all its money on
weapons."

Vietor also drew attention to a
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ArHoIuxzxAKIeDI0uTgafMObCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFobDF0
N3FnBG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzQEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_yl
g=X3oDMTNjZ290bmk4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDljYWRmNTgtMjE3NS0zNj
ZhLWI0MzgtODNiMGZjYWQzNTRiBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhldGlja2V0BHB0A3N0b3J5cG
FnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=0/SIG=14c0h0gga/EXP=1335293578/**http%3A/hosted.ap.org/d
ynamic/stories/U/US_US_NKOREA_PRISON_CAMPS%3FSITE=AP%26%2338;SECTION=HOME%26
%2338;TEMPLATE=DEFAULT>  "horrific" report by a human rights group that
North Korea detains more than 150,000 of its people in political prisons and
labor camps.

North Korea says its rocket launch, expected between Thursday and Monday,
aims to put a satellite called Kwangmyongsong-3 (Shining Star) in orbit as
it marks the 100th anniversary of the birth of the country's revered
founding leader, Kim Il Sung.

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr 10 17:43:43 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:43:43 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Excellent NK satellite launch related photos
Message-ID: <F898DB366F1F471791E6EE9BB3CF728C@your94e826b122>

Check them out here

 

http://cryptome.org/2012-info/dprk-missile/dprk-missile.htm

 

 

 

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Tue Apr 10 20:38:49 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:38:49 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] FIA Radar 2 picked up again today. Fading!
In-Reply-To: <807BF49C66744DA09561028310AE0758@SvempaQ>
References: <807BF49C66744DA09561028310AE0758@SvempaQ>
Message-ID: <BAY170-W110C95D51C5E6CB678953149C350@phx.gbl>


Secret Satellite Promptly Detected in OrbitApril 10th, 2012 by Steven Aftergood  On April 3, the National Reconnaissance Office successfully launched a classified intelligence satellite into orbit from Vandenberg Air Force Base.  Notwithstanding the usual operations security measures, amateur satellite trackers were able to locate the satellite in orbit within a few hours and even to videotape its passage overhead. Last week?s launch is the first of four scheduled launches of NRO satellites in the next five months.  Last year, the NRO launched six satellites over a seven month period. ?We are in the middle of a launch campaign with an unprecedented operational tempo across national security space programs,? said Gil Klinger, deputy assistant secretary of defense for space policy, at a March 8 hearing of the House Armed Services Committee. http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2012/04/sat_detected.html From: svengrahn at bahnhof.se
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:08:53 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] FIA Radar 2 picked up again today. Fading!







Picked it up today April 5 
at 1415.20-1425.20 UT. CA 1422.00 UT. Fading every 7 seconds approx. Fx=2242.5 
MHz. Fading also observed over U.S. Last night I observed no fading over Europe. 
Has it started tumbling?
 
BTW this S/C is the one launched from Vandenberg 
the other day on a Delta 4.
 


Sven

_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr 10 20:50:11 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:50:11 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display for
	Western Journalists
Message-ID: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>

Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on my
local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main news
reader.

 

I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. 

 

They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with commentary.
Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then there was a
Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video, while being
interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about the rocket.
Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area between the
second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not know what
that means.

 

Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides. the commentary
said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.

 

Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on there
(right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn't look like a
control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the satellite is
too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly designed, I
interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are claiming it
will do.. Many characteristics of authentic, operational satellites do not
exist on the model that was put on display for the journalists.  This
appears to be a different press conference, as there is a technician
speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that apparently is all
white.

 

Thought you might like to know.

 

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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 10 23:37:46 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 03:37:46 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] KCNA is still quiet about Unha-3 launch
Message-ID: <BAY160-W63E97677B136CC39F9E3A8AA350@phx.gbl>


For what it's worth, some information could possibly appear on the KCNA Web site before the Unha-3 launch.
http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng

At the time of writing, there are no clues to the launch date.
This email is being sent less than 24 hours before the opening of the launch window.
Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From baris.gencay at gmail.com  Wed Apr 11 01:47:06 2012
From: baris.gencay at gmail.com (Baris Gencay)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:47:06 +0300
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
 for Western Journalists
In-Reply-To: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
References: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <CACC9-_Gti8umSw2Hs8RGbWXWKoT27jRdLGipvok=Qe9PP=bQrA@mail.gmail.com>

Peter,

What would this Japanese engineer comment on these satellites below;

http://www.sstl.co.uk/getattachment/b0d842b8-427c-42a0-94d4-6dbea012b23f/DEIMOS-1-in-orbit?width=636


http://blog.sstl.co.uk/uploads/Alsat_flight.jpg

http://www.loyokezie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/NigeriaSat-1.jpg

They both *do not* have deployable solar panels and they both *do not* have
any "orbital adjustment jet".

Do you think they are badly designed too?


Baris






On 11 April 2012 03:50, Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net> wrote:

>  Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on
> my local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main
> news reader.****
>
> ** **
>
> I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. ****
>
> ** **
>
> They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with
> commentary.   Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then
> there was a Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video,
> while being interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about
> the rocket.  Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area
> between the second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not
> know what that means.****
>
> ** **
>
> Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
> affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides? the commentary
> said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.****
>
> ** **
>
> Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
> they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
> nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on
> there (right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn?t look
> like a control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the
> satellite is too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly
> designed, I interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are
> claiming it will do?. Many characteristics of authentic, operational
> satellites do not exist on the model that was put on display for the
> journalists.  This appears to be a different press conference, as there is
> a technician speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that
> apparently is all white.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thought you might like to know.****
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Wed Apr 11 01:50:12 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 07:50:12 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
 for Western Journalists
In-Reply-To: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
References: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjvgwHmZaWYXOnG0m1UXi_7WQCvtCgBkwk1eWCABiiY3ew@mail.gmail.com>

2012/4/11 Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net>

>  Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on
> my local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main
> news reader.****
>
> ** **
>
> I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. ****
>
> ** **
>
> They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with
> commentary.   Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then
> there was a Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video,
> while being interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about
> the rocket.  Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area
> between the second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not
> know what that means.****
>
> ** **
>
> Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
> affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides? the commentary
> said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.****
>
> ** **
>
> Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
> they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
> nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on
> there (right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn?t look
> like a control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the
> satellite is too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly
> designed, I interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are
> claiming it will do?. Many characteristics of authentic, operational
> satellites do not exist on the model that was put on display for the
> journalists.  This appears to be a different press conference, as there is
> a technician speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that
> apparently is all white.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thought you might like to know.
>


This comentary to the satellite hints, that the engineer expects to much
from this satellite. An earth observation satellite can be made crude,
without deployable solar arrays and without thrusters. Compare e.g. to the
UoSat satellites: http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/uosat-3.htm

Gunter Krebs
http://space.skyrocket.de
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Wed Apr 11 08:36:18 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:36:18 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
	for Western Journalists
In-Reply-To: <CACC9-_Gti8umSw2Hs8RGbWXWKoT27jRdLGipvok=Qe9PP=bQrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
 <CACC9-_Gti8umSw2Hs8RGbWXWKoT27jRdLGipvok=Qe9PP=bQrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AEDD3A50FFD345B6B3729B36C40249A1@your94e826b122>

Baris,

 

I have no opinion on whether the NK satellite is badly designed or not.  I
was providing commentary from a news feed from NHK.  Like I said in my text
I posted, I was providing the information without evaluation.

 

Best,

 

Peter

 

  _____  

From: Baris Gencay [mailto:baris.gencay at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:47 AM
To: Peter Pesavento
Cc: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
for Western Journalists

 

Peter,

 

What would this Japanese engineer comment on these satellites below;

 

http://www.sstl.co.uk/getattachment/b0d842b8-427c-42a0-94d4-6dbea012b23f/DEI
MOS-1-in-orbit?width=636 

 

http://blog.sstl.co.uk/uploads/Alsat_flight.jpg 

 

http://www.loyokezie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/NigeriaSat-1.jpg 

 

They both do not have deployable solar panels and they both do not have any
"orbital adjustment jet".

 

Do you think they are badly designed too?

 

 

Baris

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 11 April 2012 03:50, Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net> wrote:

Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on my
local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main news
reader.

 

I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. 

 

They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with commentary.
Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then there was a
Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video, while being
interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about the rocket.
Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area between the
second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not know what
that means.

 

Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides. the commentary
said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.

 

Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on there
(right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn't look like a
control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the satellite is
too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly designed, I
interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are claiming it
will do.. Many characteristics of authentic, operational satellites do not
exist on the model that was put on display for the journalists.  This
appears to be a different press conference, as there is a technician
speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that apparently is all
white.

 

Thought you might like to know.

 


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

 

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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Wed Apr 11 08:41:50 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:41:50 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
 for Western Journalists
In-Reply-To: <AEDD3A50FFD345B6B3729B36C40249A1@your94e826b122>
References: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
 <CACC9-_Gti8umSw2Hs8RGbWXWKoT27jRdLGipvok=Qe9PP=bQrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <AEDD3A50FFD345B6B3729B36C40249A1@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjvb_QNOcNmC6BhiRL+ceJp7a_-zkt8LpC0LhO_ZDsKnBg@mail.gmail.com>

Peter,

you are not the recipient of the criticism, but the Japanese engeneer, who
provided the commentary.

Gunter

2012/4/11 Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net>

>  Baris,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have no opinion on whether the NK satellite is badly designed or not.  I
> was providing commentary from a news feed from NHK.  Like I said in my text
> I posted, I was providing the information without evaluation.****
>
> ** **
>
> Best,****
>
> ** **
>
> Peter****
>
> ** **
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Baris Gencay [mailto:baris.gencay at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:47 AM
> *To:* Peter Pesavento
> *Cc:* fpspace at friends-partners.org
> *Subject:* Re: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on
> display for Western Journalists****
>
> ** **
>
> Peter,****
>
> ** **
>
> What would this Japanese engineer comment on these satellites below;****
>
> ** **
>
>
> http://www.sstl.co.uk/getattachment/b0d842b8-427c-42a0-94d4-6dbea012b23f/DEIMOS-1-in-orbit?width=636
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> http://blog.sstl.co.uk/uploads/Alsat_flight.jpg ****
>
> ** **
>
> http://www.loyokezie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/NigeriaSat-1.jpg ****
>
> ** **
>
> They both *do not* have deployable solar panels and they both *do not*have any "orbital adjustment jet".
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Do you think they are badly designed too?****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Baris****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 11 April 2012 03:50, Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net> wrote:****
>
> Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on my
> local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main news
> reader.****
>
>  ****
>
> I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. ****
>
>  ****
>
> They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with
> commentary.   Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then
> there was a Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video,
> while being interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about
> the rocket.  Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area
> between the second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not
> know what that means.****
>
>  ****
>
> Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
> affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides? the commentary
> said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.****
>
>  ****
>
> Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
> they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
> nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on
> there (right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn?t look
> like a control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the
> satellite is too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly
> designed, I interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are
> claiming it will do?. Many characteristics of authentic, operational
> satellites do not exist on the model that was put on display for the
> journalists.  This appears to be a different press conference, as there is
> a technician speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that
> apparently is all white.****
>
>  ****
>
> Thought you might like to know.****
>
>  ****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace****
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Wed Apr 11 09:26:53 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 13:26:53 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
 for Western Journalists
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS34E63CF83B78DD22690DE29C350@phx.gbl>

I would not expect the Japanese to be praising anything from North Korea. Or expecting any rocket by them to have any real purpose other than military. Larry ---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Gunter Krebs
Sent: 4/11/2012 12:41:50 PM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display for Western Journalists
Peter,

you are not the recipient of the criticism, but the Japanese engeneer, who provided the commentary.

Gunter

2012/4/11 Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net<mailto:pjp961 at svol.net>>
Baris,

I have no opinion on whether the NK satellite is badly designed or not.  I was providing commentary from a news feed from NHK.  Like I said in my text I posted, I was providing the information without evaluation.

Best,

Peter

________________________________
From: Baris Gencay [mailto:baris.gencay at gmail.com<mailto:baris.gencay at gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:47 AM
To: Peter Pesavento
Cc: fpspace at friends-partners.org<mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display for Western Journalists

Peter,

What would this Japanese engineer comment on these satellites below;

http://www.sstl.co.uk/getattachment/b0d842b8-427c-42a0-94d4-6dbea012b23f/DEIMOS-1-in-orbit?width=636

http://blog.sstl.co.uk/uploads/Alsat_flight.jpg

http://www.loyokezie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/NigeriaSat-1.jpg

They both do not have deployable solar panels and they both do not have any "orbital adjustment jet".

Do you think they are badly designed too?


Baris






On 11 April 2012 03:50, Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net<mailto:pjp961 at svol.net>> wrote:
Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on my local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main news reader.

I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation.

They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with commentary.   Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then there was a Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video, while being interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about the rocket.  Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area between the second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not know what that means.

Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides. the commentary said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.

Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on there (right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn't look like a control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the satellite is too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly designed, I interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are claiming it will do.. Many characteristics of authentic, operational satellites do not exist on the model that was put on display for the journalists.  This appears to be a different press conference, as there is a technician speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that apparently is all white.

Thought you might like to know.


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org<mailto:FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org>
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org<mailto:FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org>
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace


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From ljk4 at msn.com  Wed Apr 11 09:28:56 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 13:28:56 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: [New post] Thoughts on the NACA Model for Technology
	Transfer
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS253C11899E82D231BD83E69C350@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Launius's Blog
Sent: 4/11/2012 11:22:36 AM
To: ljk4 at msn.com
Subject: [New post] Thoughts on the NACA Model for Technology Transfer

New post on Roger Launius's Blog
        [http://1.gravatar.com/blavatar/5ab615dc2687e96bf21dc4fa4be2f3ff?s=32&ts=1334143356]
[http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/488baba4b54ec638fa19eeebd09b6b69?s=50&d=identicon&r=G]<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/>
Thoughts on the NACA Model for Technology Transfer<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/thoughts-on-the-naca-model-for-technology-transfer/>
by launiusr<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/>

[http://launiusr.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/naca-logo.jpg]<http://launiusr.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/naca-logo.jpg>I published this week an op-ed in Space News entitled "The NACA Model for Technology Transfer<http://spacenews.com/commentaries/120409-naca-model-tech-transfer.html>." In this piece I laid out the manner in which the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) approached the issue of deciding, developing, and disseminating the results of research and development (R&D) projects. If you are interested in this subject I would refer you to the piece on the Space News website, which I have linked to above.

At various times politicians and others have suggested that the NACA model of R&D should become the new standard for NASA in the twenty-first century. In 1995 then Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (Republican-Georgia) famously declared that although he favored science and technology investment he believed that NASA should have been dismantled after Apollo and returned to its NACA roots. Mr. Gingrich was not alone in this observation, and I asked two central questions about this possible course at the end of my op-ed: "Is this the model NASA should pursue going forward when it comes to research and development of space technologies? Assuming some changes in NASA's approach are appropriate, how might the NACA model of technology transfer be altered for a new age in the 21st century?"

I immediately heard from friends about meeting them to consider answers to those questions over a drink. That would be a worthwhile exercise, no doubt, but I'm curious if others have thoughts about those questions and how NASA might most effectively accomplish its mission moving forward at this critical juncture in its history. Is the NACA model the way to go, or are other approaches more effective?

[http://launiusr.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/naca-aeronautical-conference.jpg]<http://launiusr.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/naca-aeronautical-conference.jpg>

Orville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, and Howard Hughes were among the attendees at Langley's 1934 Aircraft Manufacturers' Conference. Conference guests assembled underneath a Boeing P-26A Peashooter in the Full-Scale Tunnel for this photo. (NASA photo L-9850)

launiusr<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/> | April 11, 2012 at 11:22 am | Tags: History<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=history>, International Space Station<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=international-space-station>, NACA<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=naca>, NASA<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=nasa>, National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=national-advisory-committee-for-aeronautics>, Newt Gingrich<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=newt-gingrich>, presidential power<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=presidential-power>, Space News<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=space-news>, space shuttle<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=space-shuttle>, technology transfer<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=technology-transfer>, U.S. Civil Space<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=u-s-civil-space> | Categories: aeronautics<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=74530>, aviation<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=2454>, History<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=678>, Politics<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=398>, Space<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=174> | URL: http://wp.me/pwYu1-P9

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Wed Apr 11 14:00:13 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:00:13 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] FW: [CubeSat] PRESS RELEASE: Spaceflight Unveils Its
 DecaPODT CubeSat Deployer
In-Reply-To: <000301cd1733$594111e0$0bc335a0$@com>
References: <000301cd1733$594111e0$0bc335a0$@com>
Message-ID: <BAY170-W23770B28913325759277F59C350@phx.gbl>



 From: AYoung at spaceflightservices.com
To: cubesat at cubesat.org
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:02:36 -0700
Subject: [CubeSat] PRESS RELEASE: Spaceflight Unveils Its DecaPODT CubeSat	Deployer



Spaceflight Unveils Its DecaPOD? CubeSat Deployer

April 10, 2012 ? Tukwila, WA. Spaceflight Inc. (Spaceflight) unveiled its DecaPOD? CubeSat Deployer, a self-contained system for transporting ten 3U CubeSats to space and deploying them on orbit.  

?We have strong demand right now for the launch of 3U CubeSats on all of our launch opportunities,? said Jason Andrews, Spaceflight?s President and CEO.  ?The DecaPOD? is an integrated system solution with sequencer and camera to provide a turnkey solution to address this growing market need.?

The Spaceflight DecaPOD? is an integrated container of ten 3U CubeSat dispensers.  The DecaPOD? has an integrated sequencer that receives high-level commands from the launch vehicle?s avionics and automatically deploys the spacecraft.  The DecaPOD sequencer is also connected to a camera that provides still imagery, or video, of each deployment as requested by the customer.

The DecaPOD? is being commercially developed by Spaceflight and is manifested on a mission in early 2013.  

?Spaceflight can accommodate two DecaPODs on each of the Spaceflight Secondary Payload System?s (SSPS) five ports,? continued Andrews. ?We have customers looking to launch between twenty and one hundred CubeSats on a given mission to create a constellation that addresses a wide range of scientific and commercial applications.  Our DecaPOD? solution addresses this market need.?

About Spaceflight, Inc.:

Spaceflight Inc. was established in 2009 by Jason Andrews, President and CEO of Andrews Space, to revolutionize secondary payload flight services for fixed and deployable cargo and transport.  More information about Spaceflight and specific flight opportunities can be found on the company?s website: www.spaceflightservices.com   Ashley YoungSocial Media Coordinator(206) 438-0670 Spaceflight Inc3415 S. 116th Street, Suite 123Tukwila, WA 98168 
_______________________________________________
CubeSat mailing list
CubeSat at cubesat.org
http://lists.cubesat.org/mailman/listinfo/cubesat 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 11 22:55:18 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:55:18 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Frequencies for DPRK satellite
Message-ID: <BAY160-W1B85B05CEA656B5E67511AA3A0@phx.gbl>


Dear FPSers,
Does anyone have information on radio frequencies to be used by the expected DPRK satellite?
I am trying to get some Australian amateur radio operators to tune in.
Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 01:47:01 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:47:01 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 launch postponed due to weather (?)
Message-ID: <BAY160-W46D7F3EBB5BB826EA4D87DAA3A0@phx.gbl>


MSNBC quotes Kyodo news (Japan) with a report that Unha-3 was not launched today due to bad weather.
This makes me wonder: Just what sort of weather do they want, and how likely are they to get it?
It's possibly cloudy, which could make optical observations difficult, but it it possible that it will remain cloudy for some time.
It's also possible that the launch was postponed for other reasons, technical or otherwise.
Any theories?
Morris Jones, Sydney


 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 03:23:51 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:23:51 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Saturday 14 April launch for Unha-3?
Message-ID: <BAY160-W6459FA6B7DFEE092F6EC3AAA3A0@phx.gbl>


>From Yonhap:
  A South Korean official said North Korea could launch the rocket at any date, noting a key factor wil be the weather conditions around the launch pad in the country's northwest.   Skies will be cloudy with weak winds near the launch site until Sunday and rains are expected Monday, said Cho Nam-san, an analyst of Korea Meteorological Administration.   Many analysts believe the lift-off could come Saturday on the eve of the centennial birth celebrations of the North's late founder Kim Il-sung, the grandfather of current leader Kim Jong-un.   Paek Chang-ho, head of the satellite control center of the North's Korean Committee of Space Technology, has said the exact timing of the launch will be decided by his superiors, the Reuters news agency reported Wednesday.
---------------------------------
This report casts doubt on weather as a reason for avoiding a launch today.
Morris Jones,Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Thu Apr 12 13:51:14 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:51:14 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] More on NK's satellite
Message-ID: <6AE51EFF31FF4173929B567A1FD5C19E@your94e826b122>

Apparently there is a (video?) camera on board this satellite.  I did not
see any evidence of one in the NHK lengthy news item about the NK launch
preparations that showed the mock-up model shown to the press.

 

But here is some more information that I did not know:

 

http://cns.miis.edu/stories/120410_dprk_rocket_launch_faq.htm

 


An excerpt:

3. What kind of satellite is North Korean trying to put into orbit?

 <http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2012/201203/news16/20120316-20ee.html> KCNA
describes the Kwangmyongsong-3 as a "polar-orbiting earth observation
satellite." According to
<http://www.northkoreatech.org/2012/03/20/itu-confirms-dprk-satellite-launch
-plans/> data provided to the International Telecommunications Union, the
satellite will broadcast video back to the earth. A different
<http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2012/201203/news28/20120328-40ee.html> KCNA
interview with a vice director of the Space Development Department of the
Korean Committee for Space Technology (KCST) claims that North Korea "will
assess the distribution of forests and natural resources of the DPRK, the
level of natural disaster, the crop estimate, etc. and collect data
necessary for weather forecast, natural resources prospecting and others,"
which is a normal use for earth observation satellites. The announced launch
trajectory, almost exactly due south, is what one would expect to place a
satellite in a polar orbit, in which a satellite passes above (or very
nearly above) both poles of the earth. However, the same KCNA interview also
suggests that the satellite will be in a "solar synchronous orbit at 500km
high altitude." The new solar synchronous description conflicts with the
notices to airmen (NOTAMS) that were previously filed,
<http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/N.Korea_2012_launch.png> raising doubt
about the intended orbit of the satellite. 

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Thu Apr 12 15:44:20 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:44:20 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day
Message-ID: <D7E963F14E3C4F3CA8E29D2AECCF2295@your94e826b122>

To one and all, on the 51st anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's mission-which,
without it happening, there probably wouldn't have been project Apollo.

 

I wonder this, though.

 

During the USSR era, every April 12 stamps were issued for this day.  Is
this tradition continuing today?  Does the Russian Federation regularly
issue new space stamps when April 12 comes around?

 

Or inform if it doesn't do that.

 

If someone can speak to that, please hold forth.

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From dstdba at post4.tele.dk  Thu Apr 12 16:49:34 2012
From: dstdba at post4.tele.dk (Jens Kieffer-Olsen)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:49:34 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day
In-Reply-To: <D7E963F14E3C4F3CA8E29D2AECCF2295@your94e826b122>
References: <D7E963F14E3C4F3CA8E29D2AECCF2295@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <002a01cd18ed$c6ecdce0$54c696a0$@tele.dk>

At least in 2011 a commemorative stamp was issued:

http://www.stspb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2
<http://www.stspb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=271> &t=271

 

--

Jens Kieffer-Olsen

Slagelse, Denmark 

 

Fra: Peter Pesavento [mailto:pjp961 at svol.net] 
Sendt: 12. april 2012 21:44
Til: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Emne: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day

 

To one and all, on the 51st anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's mission-which,
without it happening, there probably wouldn't have been project Apollo.

 

I wonder this, though.

 

During the USSR era, every April 12 stamps were issued for this day.  Is this
tradition continuing today?  Does the Russian Federation regularly issue new
space stamps when April 12 comes around?

 

Or inform if it doesn't do that.

 

If someone can speak to that, please hold forth.

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 12 17:32:20 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:32:20 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS7E879FAE55869B7A01FC39C3A0@phx.gbl>

A friend told me that when the animated film Cars was translated into Ukranian, the line at the end by Mater the tow truck when he got his wish to fly in a helicopter was changed. In English it was Im as happy as a tornado in a trailer park! In Ukrainian it was I am as happy as Yuri Gargaran! :^) ---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Pesavento
Sent: 4/12/2012 7:44:20 PM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day
To one and all, on the 51st anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's mission-which, without it happening, there probably wouldn't have been project Apollo.

I wonder this, though.

During the USSR era, every April 12 stamps were issued for this day.  Is this tradition continuing today?  Does the Russian Federation regularly issue new space stamps when April 12 comes around?

Or inform if it doesn't do that.

If someone can speak to that, please hold forth.
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 19:06:15 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:06:15 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] DPRK LAUNCH!
Message-ID: <BAY160-W550AEDC3F5910131794DD9AA3A0@phx.gbl>


Reports that launch just took place.

Morris

 		 	   		  
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 12 19:16:20 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:16:20 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: CNN Breaking News
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS35FE50BBEFD1D81DFC49049C3A0@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: CNN Breaking News
Sent: 4/12/2012 11:01:05 PM
To: textbreakingnews at ema3lsv06.turner.com
Subject: CNN Breaking News

Defying warnings from the international community, North Korea launched a long-range rocket it says is carrying a satellite into orbit, South Korea's Yonhap Television News reported Friday.

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Click here to get your 2012 score instantly for $0!
By Experian
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To unsubscribe from Breaking News e-mail alerts, go to: http://cgi.cnn.com/m/clik?l=textbreakingnews

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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 19:38:32 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:38:32 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] DPRK ROCKET - FAILURE
Message-ID: <BAY160-W26DE280E222B5818630C6FAA3A0@phx.gbl>


North Korea has launched a long-range rocket, but it appears to have broken apart soon after, reports say.US officials confirmed the rocket but said the rocket then broke into pieces, CNN reports.According to projected trajectories captured by an international news crew the rocket was predicted to fly over parts of Australia.





 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 20:20:53 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:20:53 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 failure - early review
Message-ID: <BAY160-W21A261DF916D303E7E353AA3B0@phx.gbl>


I've been watching various news sources and have gleaned the following data.
*) Failure seems to have occurred after roughly one minute of flight.
*) Failure involved the first stage.
*) Unha-3 has crashed into water.
Now there will be a scramble to retrieve debris, much of it conducted covertly.
Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From thomsona at flash.net  Thu Apr 12 20:24:42 2012
From: thomsona at flash.net (Allen Thomson)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:24:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 failure - early review
In-Reply-To: <BAY160-W21A261DF916D303E7E353AA3B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY160-W21A261DF916D303E7E353AA3B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1334276682.20591.YahooMailRC@web180913.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>



*) Failure seems to have occurred after roughly one minute of flight.

*) Failure involved the first stage.

Much like the first flight of this rocket back in 2006, no?  
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Thu Apr 12 21:21:17 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:21:17 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] More on NK launch failure
Message-ID: <95E7BDED47084FBBA15DFDDA61763F85@your94e826b122>


I have a question-are the lives of the rocket engineers who were involved in
the construction and preparations for launching-are they in jeopardy? The NK
nation has lost face with this third failure-and after all the hoopla, and
even the unprecedented western press invitation/exposure. Recall that when
the finance minister allowed the North Korean monetary unit to "float," that
it crashed.  People really suffered subsequently.  The finance minister was
executed, if I recall correctly.


 


Associated Press via Huffington Post


 


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/12/north-korea-rocket-2012-l_n_1422319
.html


 


 


North Korea Rocket 2012: Launch Reported By South Korea 


By JEAN H. LEE 04/12/12 08:55 PM ET

 

SEOUL, South Korea - South Korea's foreign minister says a North Korean
long-range rocket launch has been confirmed a "failure."

Kim Sung-hwan provided no further details about what he said was the North's
failure to launch a rocket the West has condemned as a cover for a missile
test.

He told reporters Friday in a nationally televised address that Seoul is
"strongly condemning North Korea's new leadership" for ignoring
international warnings to cancel the launch.

South Korean and U.S. officials earlier said North Korea fired a long-range
rocket. That was in defiance of international warnings against moving
forward with a launch widely seen as a provocation.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information.
AP's earlier story is below.

PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) - North Korea fired a long-range rocket early
Friday, South Korean and U.S. officials said, defying international warnings
against moving forward with a launch widely seen as a provocation.

Space officials had announced they would launch a satellite this week as
part of celebrations honoring North Korea founder Kim Il Sung, and liftoff
took place at 7:39 a.m. from the west coast launch pad in the hamlet of
Tongchang-ri, South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff in Seoul said, citing
South Korean and U.S. intelligence.

However, the launch appeared to have failed, with the rocket splintering
into pieces moments after takeoff, South Korea's Defense Ministry said in
Seoul.

"We suspect the North Korean missile has fallen as it divided into pieces
minutes after liftoff," Defense Ministry spokesman Kim Min-seok told
reporters.

In Washington, a U.S. official also said the launch appeared to have failed.
The official offered no further details and would not discuss the source of
the information.

Tokyo, which was prepared to shoot down any rocket flying over its
territory, also confirmed a launch from North Korea.

"We have confirmed that a certain flying object has been launched and fell
after flying for just over a minute," Japan's Defense Minister Naoki Tanaka
said. He said there was no impact on Japanese territory.

"For all their advanced technology, these rockets are fairly fragile
things," said Brian Weeden, a technical adviser at Secure World Foundation
who is a former Air Force officer at the U.S. Space Command. "You're looking
at a metal cylinder that has fairly thin walls that contains a lot of high
pressure liquid."

In Pyongyang, there was no word about a launch, and at the time, state
television was broadcasting video of popular folk tunes. North Korean
officials said they would make an announcement about the launch "soon."

North Korea had earlier announced it would send a three-stage rocket mounted
with a satellite as part of celebrations honoring late President Kim Il
Sung, whose 100th birthday is being celebrated Sunday.

A failure would be a huge blow to a nation that has staked its pride on a
satellite launch seen as a show of strength amid persistent economic
hardship as North Korea's young new leader, Kim Jong Un, solidifies power
following the death of his father, longtime leader Kim Jong Il, four months
ago.

North Korean space officials said the Unha-3 rocket is meant to send a
satellite into orbit to study crops and weather patterns - its third bid to
launch a satellite since 1998. Officials took foreign journalists to the
west coast site to see the rocket and the Kwangmyongsong-3 satellite Sunday
in a bid to show its transparency amid accusations of defiance.

The United States, Britain, Japan and others have called such a launch a
violation of U.N. resolutions prohibiting North Korea from nuclear and
ballistic missile activity.

Experts say the Unha-3 carrier is the same type of rocket that would be used
to launch a long-range missile aimed at the U.S. and other targets. North
Korea has tested two atomic devices but is not believed to have mastered the
technology needed to mount a nuclear warhead on a long-range missile.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, speaking for the Group of
Eight nations after their foreign ministers met in Washington, said Thursday
that all the members of the bloc agreed to be prepared to take further
action against North Korea in the Security Council if the launch went ahead.

"Pyongyang has a clear choice: It can pursue peace and reap the benefits of
closer ties with the international community, including the United States;
or it can continue to face pressure and isolation," Clinton said.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak was convening an emergency security
meeting, officials said.

According to projections, the first stage of the rocket was to fall into the
ocean off the western coast of South Korea, while a second stage would fall
into waters off the eastern coast of the Philippine island of Luzon.

Weeden said the launch appeared to be a failure of both space and missile
objectives.

"The earlier it breaks up, the less data you've collected, so the less
useful that test is likely to be," he said. "It's very likely that the U.S.
and its allies probably gathered more information about this test than the
North Koreans have."

He said U.S. and other nations had been poised to keep close watch on the
launch to gather intelligence about the state of North Korea's rocket
program.

___

Associated Press writers Hyung-jin Kim and Foster Klug in Seoul and Mari
Yamaguchi and Malcolm Foster in Tokyo contributed to this report.

 

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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 21:31:06 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:31:06 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fate of the DPRK rocket scientists
Message-ID: <BAY160-W654D58BB848828CAD48CEEAA3B0@phx.gbl>


In response to Peter's question about what happens next to officials and scientists connected to the failed DPRK launch, I think this is a question that deserves further exploration. It's not just about the fate of these people. It's all about how the failure of the launch is presented to the world.
It would be tempting to blame external parties for the failure. This would protect people inside the DPRK but also raise tensions. One media source has already suggested this.
There's also a potential dilemma. They would probably like to purge underperforming personnel, but may have trouble recruiting people to replace them. Thus, it could be  difficult for them to execute certain people or send them to the gulag.
Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 22:22:02 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 02:22:02 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 failure - post-launch events
Message-ID: <BAY160-W5AB7F8D62BD6519675F8AAA3B0@phx.gbl>


I'm quite sure that some interesting things are being done under the sea right now. There will certainly be an attempt to inspect the rocket debris and possibly retrieve it. This could be one reason why reports of the impact zone seem to be vague. It's possible that certain nations don't want to tip off the world to the location of the rocket. Then again, it's also possible that the real splashdown point was difficult to determine from tracking. 
Of course, none of this activity will be revealed in public.


Morris Jones, Sydney


 		 	   		  
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 12 23:00:27 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 03:00:27 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fate of the DPRK rocket scientists
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS45ED36A9F334BA4944BE8C9C3B0@phx.gbl>

When the NK soccer team lost in the World Cup in 2010 there was talk of the players being reeducated when they got home. So I swould hate to think what a public rocket failure might mean. How many more years before this failed experiment just falls apart? Larry ---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Morris Jones
Sent: 4/13/2012 1:31:06 AM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fate of the DPRK rocket scientists
In response to Peter's question about what happens next to officials and scientists connected to the failed DPRK launch, I think this is a question that deserves further exploration. It's not just about the fate of these people. It's all about how the failure of the launch is presented to the world.

It would be tempting to blame external parties for the failure. This would protect people inside the DPRK but also raise tensions. One media source has already suggested this.

There's also a potential dilemma. They would probably like to purge underperforming personnel, but may have trouble recruiting people to replace them. Thus, it could be  difficult for them to execute certain people or send them to the gulag.

Morris Jones, Sydney


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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 13 01:50:22 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 05:50:22 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
Message-ID: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>


DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its OrbitPyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application satellite Kwangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the failure. -0-


 		 	   		  
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Fri Apr 13 03:10:44 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:10:44 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
In-Reply-To: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <378887ACA91C4D24B305EF9806C81B80@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Has anyone ever seen a photograph of Kwangmyongsong 2?   Or any description of what it was going to do, apart from make "tuneful" noises?

Phillip Clark


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Morris Jones 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 6:50 AM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure


  DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its Orbit
  Pyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application satellite K wangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.

  The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.

  Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the failure. -0-












------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  FPSPACE mailing list
  FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
  http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Fri Apr 13 03:15:37 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:15:37 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
In-Reply-To: <378887ACA91C4D24B305EF9806C81B80@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
References: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
 <378887ACA91C4D24B305EF9806C81B80@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjsJDm+Oq3xRfDvSjuhmB4ZKih6bp3kBODZyi1LOrRu-FQ@mail.gmail.com>

No, there were no images published. There was, IIRC, a postal stamp showing
a satellite, but this one looked not like a real satellite and was most
likely pure fantasy.


2012/4/13 Phillip Clark <phillipclark at btinternet.com>

> **
> Has anyone ever seen a photograph of Kwangmyongsong 2?   Or any
> description of what it was going to do, apart from make "tuneful" noises?
>
> Phillip Clark
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Morris Jones
> *To:* fpspace at friends-partners.org
> *Sent:* Friday, April 13, 2012 6:50 AM
> *Subject:* [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
>
>  DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its Orbit<http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng>
>
> Pyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application
> satellite K wangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in
> Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.
>
> The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.
>
> Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the
> failure. -0-
>
>
> __________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
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From pao.ulivi at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 03:18:01 2012
From: pao.ulivi at gmail.com (Paolo Ulivi)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:18:01 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
In-Reply-To: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAHLHcDpiBUgLNUUTG3EztK0LVOWT=a=NAcDJtuC6F_=qtyOsqw@mail.gmail.com>

just for trivia: I was wondering when was the first time a failed
launch was acknowledged by the former Soviet Union


2012/4/13 Morris Jones <morrisjones at hotmail.com>:
> DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its Orbit
>
> Pyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application
> satellite K wangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in
> Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.
>
> The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.
>
> Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the
> failure. -0-
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>

From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Fri Apr 13 05:28:26 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:28:26 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
In-Reply-To: <CAHLHcDpiBUgLNUUTG3EztK0LVOWT=a=NAcDJtuC6F_=qtyOsqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
 <CAHLHcDpiBUgLNUUTG3EztK0LVOWT=a=NAcDJtuC6F_=qtyOsqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1934697D228947B184C4A641D9946DC1@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Off the top of my head I cannot remember.   Was it the Soyuz 18-1 launch 
abort?

I know that there was a Chinese book in the late 1980s that logged their 
FB-1 and CZ-2A launch failures, but the CZ-2A failure in November 1974 was 
known before the book appeared.

Phillip Clark



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paolo Ulivi" <pao.ulivi at gmail.com>
Cc: <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure


> just for trivia: I was wondering when was the first time a failed
> launch was acknowledged by the former Soviet Union
>
>
> 2012/4/13 Morris Jones <morrisjones at hotmail.com>:
>> DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its Orbit
>>
>> Pyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application
>> satellite K wangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in
>> Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.
>>
>> The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.
>>
>> Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the
>> failure. -0-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FPSPACE mailing list
>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> 



From pjp961 at svol.net  Fri Apr 13 12:20:03 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:20:03 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Report: Viking I lander may have found evidence of life
	on Mars after all
Message-ID: <7458AC42D5754DEE95368B99BCAD8EBC@your94e826b122>

Via the Daily Mail (UK)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2129152/Its-99-certain-life-M
ars-Shock-finding-scientists-analyse-soil-samples-Seventies-Viking-lander.ht
ml

 

 


'It's 99% certain there is life on Mars': Shock finding as scientists
re-analyse soil samples from Seventies Viking lander


*	Soil samples from Viking 1 lander which visited Mars in 1976 
*	Mathematical analysis shows strong sign of organics 
*	Samples had been dismissed as contaminated 
*	'99% probability of life' claims one scientist

By Rob
<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Rob+Waugh>
Waugh

PUBLISHED: 03:08 EST, 13 April 2012 | UPDATED: 03:49 EST, 13 April 2012 

In July 1976, the Viking 1 probe touched down on Mars and failed to find
traces of life - but now, three decades later, scientists think the
experiment was flawed. 

VIking 1 did find evidence of extraterrestrial microbes in soil samples from
the Red Planet.

Mathematical analysis of the samples concluded that salts in the soil on
Mars 'threw off' initial estimates - and that the soil samples show strong
evidence of microbial life.

The new analysis looked for 'complexity' in the samples - an indication of
life. To the surprise of the scientists, they found it.

'This suggests a robust biological response,' say the researchers, from the
University of Siena and California's Keck Institute. 

'These analyses support the interpretation that the Viking LR experiment did
detect extant microbial life on Mars.'

The reassessment was prompted by the discovery of 'perchlorates' in the soil
at the landing site of another Mars lander, Phoenix, in 2008.

The presence of the chemicals in Viking's samples had led scientists to
conclude the samples were contaminated. 

The scientists behind the experiment remain divided over how conclusive the
evidence for life on Mars is. 

Christopher McKay of Nasa's Ames Research Centre said, in an interview with
Discovery News, 'Finding organics is not evidence of life or evidence of
past life. It's just evidence for organics.' 

'The ultimate proof is to take a video of a Martian bacteria. They should
send a microscope - watch the bacteria move,' said Josheph Miller of USC's
Keck School of Medicine.

'On the basis of what we've done so far, I'd say I'm 99 percent sure there's
life there.' 

Future Mars missions may be able to settle the question.

One forthcoming unmanned mission is the new Mars Science Laboratory rover,
called Curiosity, scheduled for launch in November. 

The $2.5 billion nuclear-powered machine will land on Mars' surface with a
suite of 10 science instruments to try to determine if conditions are
favorable for life. 

Another key Mars mission is scheduled for 2016. Called the ExoMars Trace Gas
Orbiter, it will carry five science instruments and will study gases in
Mars' atmosphere, including methane, for evidence of biological or
geological activity. 

'The instruments on that atmospheric mission have a factor of 100 to 1,000
increase in sensitivity over what is currently available from Mars orbiters
or from ground observations,' said Mark Allen, Ph.D., who is the U.S.
project scientist for the 2016 Mars mission. 






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From pjp961 at svol.net  Fri Apr 13 14:21:05 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:21:05 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Here's a question....about the NK launch failure
Message-ID: <138CCC68B2F141BBBAA74411E29F451D@your94e826b122>

Could it be possible that the rocket is breaking apart as it enters into, or
passes through maximum aerodynamic pressure?

 

Is that possible?

 

It failed so early on..

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Fri Apr 13 16:34:59 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:34:59 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK launch failure...update (Perhaps another long-range
	rocket test)
Message-ID: <ED3D5CB90A754D68956D31574DA38E97@your94e826b122>

>From the Daily Mail (UK)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2129063/North-Korea-fires-long-range
-rocket-sparking-emergency-meeting-South-Korea-reports-suggest-blew-90-secon
d-later.html

 

 

US sources confirm it exploded after it "flared brightly" 90 seconds into
the launch.

 


Not quite ready for world domination yet then: North Korea launches
long-range rocket... but it blows up 90 SECONDS after take-off (so what went
wrong?)


*	Embarrassing moment for North Korea as long-range rocket shatters
minutes after launch 
*	Leader Kim Jong-Un defiant as he unveils of statue of his father
intended to cap 'triumph' of rocket launch  
*	Cost of the operation was estimated at $850million, enough to buy
2.5million tonnes of corn and 1.4million tonnes of rice
*	White House described launch as 'provocative' 
*	Fears rogue nation will now push ahead with nuclear tests
*	The U.S. and South Korea believe the launch may be a cover for
testing a long-range ballistic missile 
*	New video emerges believed to show wreckage of crashed rocket

By Daniel
<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daniel+Miller>
Miller

PUBLISHED: 18:33 EST, 12 April 2012 | UPDATED: 10:39 EST, 13 April 2012 



North Korea's rocket scientists have been forced to hang their heads in
collective shame following the spectacular failure of their latest
long-range missile which blew up moments after launch. 

Military leaders had hoped to show off their nation's technological prowess
by blasting a satellite into orbit in what the West had called a covert test
of missile technology and a flagrant violation of international resolutions.

But in deeply embarrassing episode for the communist country and its new
leader Kim Jong-Un, the Unha-3, or 'Milky Way', rocket exploded 90 seconds
after blast off and came crashing down into the Yellow Sea.

According to U.S. defence officials, the rocket flared brightly and
apparently exploded about 90 seconds into flight.

In the past North Korea have always declared their launches successful
despite evidence to the contrary from the international community.

But there are expected to be severe repercussions following the failure of
the mission which was supposed to mark the 100th anniversary of the birth of
national founder Kim Il-sung.

'This is the first crisis for the new leader that has just taken over,' said
Lee Jong-won, a professor at Waseda University in Tokyo.

'It is inevitable that they will look to find who is responsible for the
failure, and I wonder what the treatment will be for those in the military
and the hard-line officers who have pressed for the launch.'

North Korea had planned to make 2012 the year in which it became a 'strong
and prosperous nation' and the launch was part of a programme to burnish its
credentials.

It even, unusually, invited foreign media in to cover the birthday
celebrations and showed them the launch site.

Kim was named First Secretary of the Workers Party of Korea on Wednesday, as
he accumulates titles and posts similar to those held by his father, Kim
Jong-il who died in December.

The country is one of the most tightly controlled states on earth, with no
free media and a tight grip on its population. 

Worryingly some spectators have suggested the failure will prompt North
Korea to press ahead with its third nuclear test to show its military
strength.

A senior South Korean defence ministry official told a parliamentary
hearing: 'The possibility of an additional long-range rocket launch or a
nuclear test, as well as a military provocation to strengthen internal
solidarity is very high.

'The two Koreas are divided by the world's most militarised border and
remain technically at war after an armistice ended the Korean War in 1953.'


The launch came just weeks after a 'Leap Year' deal that saw Washington
agree to provide food aid. Among the promises Pyongyang made in return was
not to launch any long range rocket or undertake nuclear tests.

In response to the launch the United States has now cancelled a planned food
aid deal with the rogue state.

A White House official, aboard Air Force One, told reporters: 'We are not
going forward with any agreement to provide them with assistance.'

There is likely to be pressure from leading countries to impose more
sanctions on the North. But it poses difficulties for China which will
likely resist further sanctions even though its own diplomacy failed to stop
the rocket launch.

'After giving so much aid to North Korea, it still did not listen to China,
and this hurt China-North Korea relations and erodes domestic support in its
continued support of North Korea,' said Shen Dingli, a professor and
regional security expert at Shanghai's Fudan University.

'This also undermines confidence in the U.S.-China relationship, and whether
China had done enough to persuade the North. So, China is also a loser, but
not as big a loser as if North Korea succeeded in its launch,' he said.

A tough push for sanctions, which Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda
pledged, could lead a show of defiance from the North such as a nuclear
test, or an attack like the one in 2010 that saw it shell a South Korean
island, killing civilians.

'Rather than any conventional provocation, I think North Korea will watch
what U.S. and South Korea are doing and prepare for a nuclear test,' said
Chung Young-chul, a professor at Sogang University's Graduate School of
Public Policy.

The United States and Japan said the rocket, which they claimed was a
disguised missile test and the North said was to put a satellite into orbit,
crashed into the sea after travelling a much shorter distance than a
previous North Korean launch.

Its failure immediately raised questions over the impoverished North's
reclusive leadership which maintains one of the world's largest standing
armies but which cannot feed its people without outside aid, largely from
its solitary powerful backer, China.

'There is no question that the failed launch turns speculation toward the
ramifications for the leadership in Pyongyang: a fireworks display gone bad
on the biggest day of the year,' said Scott Snyder of the Council on Foreign
Relations.

In a highly unusual move, the North, which still claims success with a 2009
satellite that others say failed, admitted in a state television broadcast
seen by its 23 million people that the latest satellite had not made it into
orbit.

The failure is the first major and very public challenge for the third of
the Kim dynasty to rule North Korea just months into the leadership of a man
believed to be in his late 20s.

'It could be indication of subtle change in the North Korean leadership in
how they handle these things, something that may be different from the
past,' said Baek Seung-joo of the Korea Institute of Defense Analyses a
thinktank affiliated with South Korean Defence Ministry.

'I mean it would have been unthinkable for them to admit this kind of
failure in the past, something that could be seen as an international
humiliation. The decision to have come out with the admission had to come
from Kim Jong-un.'

Embarrassingly, the rocket flew for just a few minutes covering a little
over 100km to explode over a sea separating the Korean peninsula and China,
far less than the last rocket in 2009 that travelled 3,800km, alarming Japan
which it over-flew.

The launch is in breach of United Nations Security Council sanctions and
drew condemnation from the United States, Russia, South Korea and Japan and
threats to tighten already harsh sanctions aimed at stopping Pyongyang
developing nuclear weapons.

The concern is that North Korea is using launches to perfect the kind of
technology that would enable it to build a missile capable of delivering a
nuclear warhead to the United States.

North Korea has repeatedly defended its right to launch rockets for what it
says are peaceful purposes and may have invested hundreds of millions of
dollars in the failed launch.

China, the North's main backer, again appealed for 'calm', although its
failure to dissuade Pyongyang from undertaking the launch despite propping
up the ailing and impoverished state, showed the limitations of its
diplomacy, analysts said.

'Despite the failure of its attempted missile launch, North Korea's
provocative action threatens regional security, violates international law
and contravenes its own recent commitments,' White House spokesman Jay
Carney said in a statement.

Foreign ministers of the Group of Eight leading industrial nations condemned
the launch as in breach of U.N. Security Council resolutions.

The North American Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, said the first stage
fell into the sea west of South Korea, and the remainder was deemed to have
failed.

'No debris fell on land,' NORAD said. 'At no time were the missile or the
resultant debris a threat.

The U.N. Security Council will meet to discuss a possible response to North
Korea's rocket launch today, said council diplomats. 

Earlier this week U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice said the
15-nation council should 'respond credibly' to a North Korean missile
launch. 

Western diplomats say that the most China, a permanent veto-wielding council
member and North Korea's protector, would accept is a rebuke of Pyongyang.


New sanctions, they said on condition of anonymity, are out of the question.






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From pjp961 at svol.net  Fri Apr 13 17:52:27 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:52:27 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Crash point of Luna 18
Message-ID: <6C6F9ACB0D684E579E1F29D891D3C04E@your94e826b122>

Are the coordinates of Luna 18's crash point (via the Russian disclosures)
is 03-34S, 056-30E  ?

 

Is this correct?  Or incorrect?

 

If you know, please inform.  You can even PM me on this.

 

Thanks.

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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Tue Apr 17 06:13:35 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (jameseoberg at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 10:13:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [FPSPACE] More on NK launch failure
In-Reply-To: <95E7BDED47084FBBA15DFDDA61763F85@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <1381772618.977426.1334657615892.JavaMail.root@sz0079a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>




In Beijing now, just arrived from Pyongyang, back in Houston Wednesday afternoon. 

I've posted a lot of our NBC NorKorean space debacle stories on my home page www.jamesoberg.com 





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From kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za  Tue Apr 17 07:46:18 2012
From: kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za (Keith Gottschalk)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 13:46:18 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] both Koreas still struggling to launch
Message-ID: <4F8D742A020000A60001C4F8@uwc.ac.za>

Dear JimO,
 
  congrats on being able to tour the DPRK space launch pad, & thanks for your reports.
 
    As all of us here know, spaceflight is unforgiving. While political rhetoric has its place (aspirational & inspirational) there can be no substitute for obsessive quality control checks, at every stage from components to subsystems to static tests of the entire assembly, measuring all the vibrations & resonances. I've read conflicting accounts of this rocket "suddenly flaring" versus the 1st stage completed its burn, but the 2nd stage never started up.  If the latter is true, certainly it was the case that in the 1950s that US rocket engineers used to be concerned that an upper stage might not ignite.
 
     It is an interesting contrast between the DPRK announcing a fixed date for launch whatever else might happen, versus how SpaceX repeatedly postponed, November, December, January, February, March, April, May, their Falcon 9 - Dragon docking with the ISS. The latter knows that getting it right overrides any other scheduling factor. You were also right to  highlight the point that the North Koreans let all reporters up so close, in their normal clothes, to the satellite. In South Africa's clean room at Houwteq, even when there is no satellite in it, we are not allowed into the room until after you have put on surgeons' clothes, including the hair cover.
 
     Once all the political huffing & puffing dies down, it seems that the North Korean rocket would be more than three decades obsolete if deployed as a missile. It is not solid propellant. One report is that it takes "two or three days" to be fueled. That is, it would be a sitting duck for USAF UAVs. 
 
     The three DPRK failures in a row also contrast with Iran's satellite launch on was it their 2nd attempt. Clearly, they subordinated launch dates to doing quality control checks. Of course, South Korea also had its heartbreaking failure. We'll now have to see if the next country to successfully launch will be the so long delayed Brazil?
 
- Keith
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From drwoods at stny.rr.com  Wed Apr 18 15:21:13 2012
From: drwoods at stny.rr.com (David R. Woods)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:21:13 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
Message-ID: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>

I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic 
Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to 
save expense, time, and certification: 
http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf

From robert_law at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 18 15:45:09 2012
From: robert_law at yahoo.com (Robert Law)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 12:45:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1334778309.57079.YahooMailClassic@web162605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I am sure that Skylab used Gemini components like the EVA hatch ? perhaps this was a door which came from a Gemini space craft which had not flown in space , the early Shuttle missions used the Apollo TV cameras with colour wheel !?
regards
Robert

--- On Wed, 4/18/12, David R. Woods <drwoods at stny.rr.com> wrote:

From: David R. Woods <drwoods at stny.rr.com>
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 8:21 PM

I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to save expense, time, and certification: http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From dsfportree at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 18 19:39:59 2012
From: dsfportree at hotmail.com (David Portree)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 17:39:59 -0600
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>


Borrowing bits seems to have happened quite a bit, and not just on the human side. Magellan was a Frankenstein's Monster spacecraft, with a Voyager backup dish antenna and main bus structure, plus a Mariner 9 backup star tracker (the oldest item it included - from 1971!), among other bits and pieces. That was how they managed to cut costs to save VOIR after Reagan's attack on spaceflight in 1981-1982 (which he subsequently thought better of after the Shuttle started flying - space made for great photo ops). 

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:21:13 -0400
> From: drwoods at stny.rr.com
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
> 
> I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic 
> Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to 
> save expense, time, and certification: 
> http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
 		 	   		  
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From john.b.charles at nasa.gov  Wed Apr 18 19:54:42 2012
From: john.b.charles at nasa.gov (Charles, John B. (JSC-SA211))
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:54:42 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>

Plus remember that Gemini 6 contributed its re-entry control system to the Agena-replacement ATDA flown as a target for Gemini 9. (And Tom Stafford was on both 6 and 9.)

JBC
Sent from my iPhone.
Please forgive typos.

On Apr 18, 2012, at 18:40, "David Portree" <dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Borrowing bits seems to have happened quite a bit, and not just on the human side. Magellan was a Frankenstein's Monster spacecraft, with a Voyager backup dish antenna and main bus structure, plus a Mariner 9 backup star tracker (the oldest item it included - from 1971!), among other bits and pieces. That was how they managed to cut costs to save VOIR after Reagan's attack on spaceflight in 1981-1982 (which he subsequently thought better of after the Shuttle started flying - space made for great photo ops).

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>
dportree at usgs.gov<mailto:dportree at usgs.gov>

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/




> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:21:13 -0400
> From: drwoods at stny.rr.com<mailto:drwoods at stny.rr.com>
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org<mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
>
> I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic
> Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to
> save expense, time, and certification:
> http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org<mailto:FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org>
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org<mailto:FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org>
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From clj at panix.com  Wed Apr 18 20:25:45 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:25:45 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>
 <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <20120418202545.173b4212@cloyd>

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:54:42 -0500 "Charles, John B. (JSC-SA211)"
<john.b.charles at nasa.gov> wrote:

> Plus remember that Gemini 6 contributed its re-entry control system to the
> Agena-replacement ATDA flown as a target for Gemini 9. (And Tom Stafford
> was on both 6 and 9.)

And I remember thinking, when Apollo 10 flew, that lunar orbit would be a
particularly disasterous place for something to prevent him docking with his
target for the third flight in a row (and Cernan was on Gemini 9 as well as
Apollo 10, so he also had had a jinxed history when trying to dock).

From dsfportree at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 18 20:30:36 2012
From: dsfportree at hotmail.com (David Portree)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:30:36 -0600
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>,
 <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>,
 <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <SNT133-W11138C2B9675394F63DFFCD53D0@phx.gbl>


Hadn't heard of that one! 

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



From: john.b.charles at nasa.gov
To: dsfportree at hotmail.com
CC: drwoods at stny.rr.com; fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:54:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels

Plus remember that Gemini 6 contributed its re-entry control system to the Agena-replacement ATDA flown as a target for Gemini 9. (And Tom Stafford was on both 6 and 9.) 

JBCSent from my iPhone. Please forgive typos. 
On Apr 18, 2012, at 18:40, "David Portree" <dsfportree at hotmail.com> wrote:





Borrowing bits seems to have happened quite a bit, and not just on the human side. Magellan was a Frankenstein's Monster spacecraft, with a Voyager backup dish antenna and main bus structure, plus a Mariner 9 backup star tracker (the oldest item it included - from 1971!), among other bits and pieces. That was how they managed to cut costs to save VOIR after Reagan's attack on spaceflight in 1981-1982 (which he subsequently thought better of after the Shuttle started flying - space made for great photo ops). 

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:21:13 -0400
> From: drwoods at stny.rr.com
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
> 
> I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic 
> Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to 
> save expense, time, and certification: 
> http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
 		 	   		  
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From siddiqi at fordham.edu  Wed Apr 18 23:39:08 2012
From: siddiqi at fordham.edu (Asif Siddiqi)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>


Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).

He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.

Asif Siddiqi

http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
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From tirosspace at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 19 02:28:35 2012
From: tirosspace at hotmail.com (Tiros SpaceInformation)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:28:35 +0800
Subject: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek
In-Reply-To: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>,
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>


I do not know if anybody has reported this, but Antonin Vitek, the author of the Space40 website, passed away on 28 February 2012. 

Jos Heyman http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz


 From: siddiqi at fordham.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk


Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).
He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.
Asif Siddiqi
http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From dav.shayler at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Apr 19 05:14:54 2012
From: dav.shayler at tiscali.co.uk (dav.shayler at tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:14:54 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <18498277.316001334826894268.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>

It is so sad to hear of the passing of Dennis, his 1990 Almanac was a 
handy publication for the presentation of the key facts of each Soviet 
mission in order and in one volume. Another sad loss to Soviet 
sleuthing - and on Cosmonautics Day too.....



Dave Shayler  



>----Original Message----

>From: siddiqi at fordham.edu

>Date: 19/04/2012 4:39 

>To: <fpspace at friends-partners.org>

>Subj: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk

>

>

>Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among 
many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space 
Flight (1990).

>

>He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met 
him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing 
with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He 
had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including 
myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.

>

>Asif Siddiqi

>

>http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true_______________________________________________

>FPSPACE mailing list

>FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>




From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 19 06:29:12 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 06:29:12 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] FW: [New post] Envisioning Limits: Outer Space and the
	End of Utopia
In-Reply-To: <7858997.3191.0@wordpress.com>
References: <7858997.3191.0@wordpress.com>
Message-ID: <BAY170-W106D5AC1613E997706CBBC9C3D0@phx.gbl>



 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:18:04 +0000
To: ljk4 at msn.com
From: donotreply at wordpress.com
Subject: [New post] Envisioning Limits: Outer Space and the End of Utopia




	
	WordPress.com
	
	





	
		
			
				
					
						
							
								
									
										
											
												
											
										

										
											
												
													
														New post on Roger Launius's Blog													
												
												
													
												
											
										

										
											
												
													
														
															
																																	
																		
																			
																				
																			
																			
																				Envisioning Limits: Outer Space and the End of Utopia
																				by launiusr
																			
																		
																	
																
																
																																			I am attending the conference, "Envisioning Limits: Outer Space and the End of Utopia," sponsored by the Emmy Noether Research Group, Friedrich-Meinecke-Institut, at the Freie Universit?t Berlin. It is a very engaging program and between April 19 and 21, 2012, we will consider a wide range of ideas about this subject of astroculture. The program is below.
THURSDAY, 19 April 2012
09.00 Introduction
Alexander C.T. Geppert, William R. Macauley and Daniel Brandau: The 1970s, Western Europe and the Delineation of Space
09.30 Feature Presentation I
Martin Collins: Ambiguities of the 1970s. Spaceflight and the Problem of Historically Interpreting the In-Between Decade
11.00 Panel I: Transitions
Chair: Paul Nolte
Andrew Jenks: Transnational History and Human Space Flight
Doug Millard: Were the 1970s a Period of Transition for the History of Britain?s Exploration of Space?
14.00 Panel II: Pictures
Chair: Thomas P. Weber
Robert Poole: '2001: A Space Odyssey.' Space Travel and the Ends of Progress
Ralf B?low: The X Files. Reading a West German Sci-Tech Magazine from 1969 to 1973
16.00 Panel III: Laws
Chair: Peter Becker
Luca Follis: Beyond Law?s Frontier. The Normative Imaginary of Outer Space
Virgiliu Pop: The Moon Agreement and the Beginning of Utopia
19.00 Feature Presentation II
Agnes Meyer-Brandis: Space Traveling. A Performance-Lecture Examining Real Utopian Aspects of Interplanetary Exchange of Idea and Matter
FRIDAY, 20 April 2012
09.00 Feature Presentation III
Chair: William R. Macauley
John Krige: Blowback, Lift Off. The Rise of Ariane and the Decline of US Monopoly of Access to Space in the 1970s
10.15 Panel IV: Politics
Chair: Etienne Benson
Matthew H. Hersch: 'On the Edge of Forever.' 1972 and the New American Space Consensus
Neil M. Maher: Ground Control. Space Technology, Environmentalism, and D?tente
Across the Developing World
13.00 Panel V: Texts
Chair: Matthias Schwartz
Florian Kl?ger: Reading into the Stars. Cosmology and Self-Reflexivity in the British Novel of the 1970s
Aleksandra Idzior: Images of Extraterrestrial Life and Designs for 'Out-of-Space' in Poland during the 1960s and 1970s
15.00 Panel VI: Aesthetics
Chair: Claudia Schm?lders
Christina Vatsella: Artworks in Orbit. The Satellite Art Projects
Thore Bj?rnvig: Unlimited Play in a World of Limits. The Lego Classic Space Theme, 1978-80
17.00 Panel VII: Prospects
Chair: Debbora Battaglia
Philippe Ailleris: Red Soil, Phonograph Records and United Nations Resolution 33/426. Our 1970s Extraterrestrial Heritage
Janet Vertesi and Lisa Messeri: The Greatest Mission Never Flown. Mars Sample Return, Terrestrial Planet Finder, and the Limits of Utopia
SATURDAY, 21 April 2012
09.00 Panel VIII: Habitats
Chair: Thomas Brandstetter
W. Patrick McCray: Gerard O'Neill?s Visioneering of the 'High Frontier'
Gonzalo Mun?var: Space Colonies and their Critics
11.00 Panel IX: Transcendence
Chair: Helmuth Trischler
Peter J. Westwick: From the Club of Rome to Star Wars. The Era of Limits, Space Colonization, and the Origins of the Strategic Defense Initiative
Roger D. Launius: Human Spaceflight as Religion in the Aftermath of the Space Race
14.00 Conclusion
Chair: Alexander C.T. Geppert
David A. Kirby: General Comment
16.00 End
																																	

																																	
																		launiusr | April 19, 2012 at 8:17 am | Tags: 1960s, 1970s, American exceptionalism, Apollo, astroculture, cold war, Earth science, History, international relations, International Space Station, Moon, Moon race, U.S. Civil Space
 | Categories: Apollo, Applications Satellites, Cold War Competition, Earth Science, History, International Space Station, Lunar Exploration, Politics, Science, Space, Space Shuttle
 | URL: http://wp.me/pwYu1-Pt																	
																
																																	
																		
																			
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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Thu Apr 19 09:39:13 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:39:13 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <015BA3B5355249EB8B681E15B44E11F0@ownerfbf08f40c>

I join the chorus of lamentations. I gave a copy of his book to Aleksey Leonov at
Baykonur in 1995, and the following morning he told me, "Now I know where 
I can go for the facts I can no longer remember."


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Asif Siddiqi 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:39 PM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk




  Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).


  He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.


  Asif Siddiqi


  http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  FPSPACE mailing list
  FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
  http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From vsa at panorama.com.ru  Thu Apr 19 10:11:45 2012
From: vsa at panorama.com.ru (Sergey A. Voevodin)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:11:45 +0400
Subject: [FPSPACE]  Dennis Newkirk
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <015BA3B5355249EB8B681E15B44E11F0@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <000e01cd1e36$5a63f560$cf52fea9@first>

The very sad news, I spoke with Dennis. A wonderful man he was!

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: James E Oberg 
  To: Asif Siddiqi ; fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 5:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk


  I join the chorus of lamentations. I gave a copy of his book to Aleksey Leonov at
  Baykonur in 1995, and the following morning he told me, "Now I know where 
  I can go for the facts I can no longer remember."


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Asif Siddiqi 
    To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
    Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:39 PM
    Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk




    Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).


    He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.


    Asif Siddiqi


    http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    FPSPACE mailing list
    FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
    http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  FPSPACE mailing list
  FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
  http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From cpvick at globalsecurity.org  Thu Apr 19 10:51:26 2012
From: cpvick at globalsecurity.org (Charles Vick)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:51:26 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <003301cd1e3b$e5c81050$b15830f0$@globalsecurity.org>

It is indeed sad to hear of Dennis's passing.

I remember so well that he made it to Moscow FPSpace tour only to get too
sick to say and had to return.  He tried

Let all remember that life is far too short so hug your love ones for we are
all here but for a very short period of time.

Peace be with Dennis in the Lord's ship of State

Peace for the love ones still with us all.

 

cpvick

 

From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org
[mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Asif Siddiqi
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:39 PM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk

 

 

Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many
publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).

 

He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him
around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with
each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a
keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with
his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.

 

Asif Siddiqi

 

http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitI
D=1061
<http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obit
ID=1061&keepThis=true> &keepThis=true

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From dokter.nuyens at telenet.be  Thu Apr 19 12:02:30 2012
From: dokter.nuyens at telenet.be (Zeger Nuyens)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:02:30 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
Message-ID: <4F903716.2080502@telenet.be>

As a lucky owner of his Almanac of Soviet Manned Spaceflight I can only 
be very sad hearing the news of his passing.
Every time I update my docs on Soviet Manned Spaceflight, I still look 
in his book to see if I got it right.
He will be missed.
My thoughts for his family and friends.

Zeger Nuyens

From dominic_phelan at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 19 13:24:32 2012
From: dominic_phelan at hotmail.com (Dominic Phelan)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:24:32 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>,
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>


Dennis was kind enough to send me some copies of his 'Russian Aerospace Guide' newsletter when I contacted him in the mid-1990s. In pre-Internet Ireland they were certainly a great help in my search for more information on Soviet spaceflight and I will always be thankful for that help. Although I didn't know him personally I'm still very saddened at his passing at such a young age.

Dominic Phelan
 
 



From: siddiqi at fordham.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk




Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).


He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.


Asif Siddiqi


http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
_______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com  Thu Apr 19 13:34:12 2012
From: rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com (Rui Barbosa)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:34:12 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAHkaAPd1TfKSin28rC7ezuuPs99hdWevnB8E=EVfSv7930wqBw@mail.gmail.com>

Many years ago on the old days, Dennis was one of those names of the God's
of Knowledge about Soviet Spaceflight. back then it was hard for a young
boy in Portugal do get hand of those amazing books that told the secrets
many of us want to read about, Dennis will be missed and I thank him very
much for all his work about Soviet Cosmonautics.

-- 
Rui C. Barbosa
Braga - Portugal
www.zenite.nu/orbita
www.carris-geres.blogspot.com
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From bergcvd at zonnet.nl  Thu Apr 19 14:13:10 2012
From: bergcvd at zonnet.nl (Kees van den Berg)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:13:10 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis R. Newkirk
Message-ID: <7C8654E45F60409AB7CF74704E614185@kema>

Born April 14, 1964, in Princeton, Indiana, Dennis passed away, after battling mesothelioma, Thursday, April 12, 2012, at Good Shepherd Hospital, Barrington.

He graduated from the School of Technology at Purdue University, was a staff writer at several magazines and was an avid researcher in aerospace history. He wrote the "Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight," "1996 Russian Space Review," "Soviet Space Planes" and "The Repair of Salyut 7."

Dennis was a Distinguished Member of Technical Staff at Motorola Solutions, where he had been employed since 1991. He was a technical expert in designing security systems and was an inventor who held more than 10 patents. His inventions are used daily around the world, providing secure communications, and his efforts have resulted in a long list of customers who remember his for his dedication in service and his interest in the security of our country.

Dennis was a wonderful father and a very loving husband and son.

Survivors include his wife, Ronghui "Jenny" Yang; a son, Ryan Newkirk; his mother, Ruth Newkirk of Hope, Indiana; and a brother, David Newkirk.

He was preceded in death by his father, Lanson Newkirk.

From: The Republic (news paper) Columbus, Indiana and Chicago Suburban Daily Herald --- April 18, 2012   

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 2709 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

The Professional version does not have this message
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From dsfportree at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 19 14:56:13 2012
From: dsfportree at hotmail.com (David Portree)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:56:13 -0600
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>, ,
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>,
 <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT133-W31C3C0910850CB0D780636D53D0@phx.gbl>


This is a shock. I'm so sorry for his family and many friends.
Dennis' ALMANAC helped inspire my MIR HARDWARE HERITAGE (NASA, 1995). 
Incidentally, I always had the idea that he was older. Knowing he was 28 when he published his ALMANAC increases my respect for him.

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



From: dominic_phelan at hotmail.com
To: siddiqi at fordham.edu; fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:24:32 +0000
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk





Dennis was kind enough to send me some copies of his 'Russian Aerospace Guide' newsletter when I contacted him in the mid-1990s. In pre-Internet Ireland they were certainly a great help in my search for more information on Soviet spaceflight and I will always be thankful for that help. Although I didn't know him personally I'm still very saddened at his passing at such a young age.


Dominic Phelan

 

 




From: siddiqi at fordham.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk




Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).


He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.


Asif Siddiqi


http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
_______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From brharvey at iol.ie  Thu Apr 19 17:54:04 2012
From: brharvey at iol.ie (Brian Harvey)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:54:04 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE]  Dennis Newkirk
References: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6605C354-515A-414C-8F02-12E87E3B77CD@iol.ie>

I was unaware Dennis Newkirk had been ill and was very taken aback by his passing.
Many years ago I asked him for and he quickly sent me his 'Russian Space Review' which like all his other work was full of interesting detail, thoroughly researched and footnoted and still stands as an important reference document.  Like others, I regret not having had the chance to meet him in person.

Brian Harvey
Dublin, ireland

From rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com  Thu Apr 19 18:15:28 2012
From: rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com (Rui Barbosa)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:15:28 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek
In-Reply-To: <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any obituary in english available?

2012/4/19 Tiros SpaceInformation <tirosspace at hotmail.com>

>  I do not know if anybody has reported this, but Antonin Vitek, the author
> of the Space40 website, passed away on 28 February 2012.
>
> Jos Heyman
>
>
>
> http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz
> ******
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: siddiqi at fordham.edu
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
>
>
> Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among
> many publications) of the wonderful *Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight
> * (1990).
>
> He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him
> around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with
> each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a
> keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with
> his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.
>
> Asif Siddiqi
>
>
> http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
>
> _______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>


-- 
Rui C. Barbosa
Braga - Portugal
www.zenite.nu/orbita
www.carris-geres.blogspot.com
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From bhen at telenet.be  Thu Apr 19 18:24:43 2012
From: bhen at telenet.be (Bart Hendrickx)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:24:43 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] 1988 Mir emergency disclosed
Message-ID: <000901cd1e7b$387ba390$a972eab0$@be>

The latest issue of "Novosti kosmonavtiki" carries an interview with former
cosmonaut Vladimir Titov. In the interview Titov describes a hitherto
undisclosed emergency that arose aboard Mir in March 1988 during his
year-long mission with Musa Manarov.  The problems began after Mission
Control had sent commands to change the orientation of the station. The crew
noticed something was amiss when the Sun showed up in a porthole where it
wasn't supposed to be visible. It turned out that the solar panels were no
longer facing the Sun and the station's batteries were slowly draining. When
the crew reported they were losing power and asked to check the orientation,
Mission Control responded everything was fine. They got the same response
during the following orbit, Mission Control saying the reorientation would
take a while. Unknown to mission controllers, they had sent an erroneous
command to the station.

 

After this pass there were five orbits where the station didn't pass over
Soviet territory and communications with Mission Control were impossible.
When they entered the Earth's shadow over the Indian Ocean, the crew got a
"minimal voltage" alarm and critical systems began shutting down. The
station went dark and  on board it was "dead silent", as Titov describes it.
As a result of the power loss, the magnetic suspension system of the Kvant
module's control moment gyros ("gyrodines") no longer worked, causing the
rapidly rotating gyros to come into contact with their housing as they began
despinning. This caused some loud bangs, which had the crew very worried.
Specialists would later tell them that the gyros could have "ripped the
station to pieces" and that they had been very lucky.

 

Subsequently, the crew tried to contact Mission Control with the radio
systems of Soyuz, but there was no response. Titov then slowly improved the
station's orientation by activating the Soyuz thrusters, with Manarov
looking out one of Mir's portholes and passing on the necessary commands.
This gave them enough power for lights and ventilators to turn on again.
However, the station's computers were down and the Elektron oxygen
generation system had failed, forcing the crew to use solid-fuel oxygen
generators ("candles") for about two months. Many other systems had broken
down as well because of the power failure and although some spare parts were
available aboard Mir many had to be delivered by Progress cargo vehicles.
Apparently, things didn't return to normal until the launch of the
Soviet-Bulgarian visiting crew in June 1988. 

 

One wonders if the lessons learned from this emergency situation were passed
on to later Mir crews. A similar power failure occurred aboard Mir during
the Euromir-94 mission in October 1994  and the crew didn't initially
contact Mission Control via Soyuz or take the initiative to use the Soyuz
thrusters to restore orientation. When the same scenario repeated itself
after the Progress collision in 1997, it was by all accounts Michael Foale
and not Tsibliyev or Lazutkin who came up with the idea of activating the
Soyuz thrusters.

 

It has taken almost twenty-five years for this story to come to light and
we're talking about a mission that took place in the early years of
"glasnost". How many more such revelations can we expect? Is this just the
tip of the iceberg?

 

Bart Hendrickx

 

 

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From bhen at telenet.be  Thu Apr 19 18:37:25 2012
From: bhen at telenet.be (Bart Hendrickx)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:37:25 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <6605C354-515A-414C-8F02-12E87E3B77CD@iol.ie>
References: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
 <6605C354-515A-414C-8F02-12E87E3B77CD@iol.ie>
Message-ID: <002201cd1e7c$fe88f960$fb9aec20$@be>

Dennis' "Almanac of Soviet Manned Spaceflight" is a classic and his Russian
Aerospace Guide was a very important source of information in the
pre-Internet era. I met him at KSC in 1997 where we stood side by side
watching Atlantis soar into space on STS-81. I remember him as a
knowledgeable, modest man with a dry sense of humour. Unfortunately, I lost
contact with him later, but this news still comes as a shock. Rest in peace,
Dennis...

Bart Hendrickx




From robot at ultimax.com  Thu Apr 19 18:59:28 2012
From: robot at ultimax.com (Robert G Kennedy III, PE)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:59:28 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1465.1334856287.624.fpspace@www.friends-partners.org>
References: <mailman.1465.1334856287.624.fpspace@www.friends-partners.org>
Message-ID: <20120419175928.32481ndgfrw38t74@webmail.webhero.com>

All,

This makes me very sad, and the date of Dennis's passing makes it all  
the more poignant. There weren't a lot of us Soviet space sleuths to  
begin with, and quite a few have departed our company in the last few  
years. I knew him as a gifted colleague (which is to say, persistant,  
insightful, and detail-oriented)in our little field, and a reliable  
vendor. I did not know about his "day job". Interesting that he  
managed all his writing and publishing activity in the midst of an  
apparently challenging and rewarding career. I got to meet him once in  
person, at the 40th anniversary of Sputnik up there in DC in October  
1997, IIRC, where I met many of you-all.

Asif Siddiqi wrote:
> Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author  
> (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned  
> Space Flight (1990).

-- 
Robert G Kennedy III, PE
www.ultimax.com



From clj at panix.com  Thu Apr 19 19:38:28 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:38:28 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek
In-Reply-To: <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>
 <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120419193828.3bb58ad3@cloyd>

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:15:28 +0100 Rui Barbosa <rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there any obituary in english available?

I ran it through Google Translate (or whatever Chrome offers to translate
from Czech to English; I'm pretty sure it *is* Google Translate) and it
wasn't perfect (machine translation never is) but it was very understandable,
moreso than the Russian-English translations I've asked it to do.

From clj at panix.com  Thu Apr 19 19:43:59 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:43:59 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek
In-Reply-To: <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>
 <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120419194359.394320b0@cloyd>

After praising the Czech-English efforts of Google Translate, I neglected to
offer evidence.  Here is the translation of the article at 
http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz

What follows the horizontal line is Google Translate, not me.

__________

Antonin Vitek died. Always know what and why they moved in space
28th February 2012   10:46
At the age of 72 years died after a long illness popularizer Space Antonin
Vitek. Is the author of the largest databases of artificial objects in space.
No media watched the shuttle liftoff or could not do without it. Whether on
radio, television or Technet.cz always funny and yet accurately informed
about what is at the start or happening in space.

Antonin Vitek | Photo: Lukas Prochazka, MF DNES
When he moved in space even garbage V?tek enough to call and he always knew
why it happened and what it might mean for humanity. Rarely is because he had
to look up some materials. Most of them already had in mind a long time ago,
or even on your site unique Space 40 , which deals with satellites and space
probes.

Antonin Vitek amazed the audience commented starts landing spacecraft or his
absolute knowledge of everything that is happening at the moment. He knew
from memory the exact time data when the operations during the countdown
begins and how it will end. The color of smoke and places he knew exactly
what was being ignited or disconnected and that is all right or not. He could
perceive, interpret and graphically describe the viewer's eye going almost
invisible or imperceptible. Not only in this respect was and still is
irreplaceable.

Antonin Vitek was born on 25 January 1940 and until 1985 worked  at the
Institute of Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry. He participated among others
in the development of CSK-1 crystallizer for satellite station Salyut 7 and
Mir legendary. Until his death he worked at the Academy of Sciences.

Vitek is the author of numerous articles on space travel in the journal Space
and Aeronautics + Astronautics. He is also co-author of Small Space
Encyclopedia (1982). Based on the series, which was created for our server,
released in 2008 with his longtime friend, a professional journalist and
publicist Karl Pacnerem book  half-century of space travel . In 2009, won the
prize Litter Astronomico, which awarded him the Czech Astronomical Society
for the popularization of aerospace leadership and the aforementioned
globally unique Internet Encyclopedia Astronautics SPACE 40 . For a long time
worked with daily MF Dnes. He was among the first informed the world about
the tragedy of space shuttle Columbia .

The editors Technet.cz collaborated since 2007, when the honor of the 50th
anniversary of the launch of the first artificial satellite, Sputnik began to
build on the previously mentioned series of half-century of space travel .
Came over a year. Loosely on him in 2010, followed by series of articles
Cosmic known and unknown ports . He was Antonin Vitek complete missed due to
illness.

Even in November 2011 delivered a lecture before a full house at the Academy
of Sciences building on current events in the universe (the record you can
see here ). Coincidentally, at that time was the main theme of the Russian
Phobos Grunt probe, which was so poorly programmed that in January, fell into
the Pacific Ocean .

Antonin Vitek died after a long and severe illness shortly after his second
birthday seventies.

Charles Pacner time ago my friend gave V?tek special article, you can read it
here .

Author: John Kuzn?k
Zdroj:
http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz

From clj at panix.com  Thu Apr 19 21:25:21 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 21:25:21 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <4F903716.2080502@telenet.be>
References: <4F903716.2080502@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CAJmqu6hiZd7V2LBVhRmFhc-ieJca=TQFt-GMCtCuujZ5tk94qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Zeger Nuyens <dokter.nuyens at telenet.be> wrote:
> As a lucky owner of his Almanac of Soviet Manned Spaceflight I can only be
> very sad hearing the news of his passing.
> Every time I update my docs on Soviet Manned Spaceflight, I still look in
> his book to see if I got it right.

I echo the sentiments regarding the worth of this book (sadly, it was
never updated, so it
covers flights up through 1989).

I got my copy when I was a volunteer at the Boston Museum of Science
Soviet Space
exhibit in 1990, and it's even autographed by the author (just the
author's signature, not
a personalized autograph; I imagine the Museum got a bunch like this
to hand out).

From jeoberg at comcast.net  Fri Apr 20 00:08:42 2012
From: jeoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:08:42 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] 1988 Mir emergency disclosed
References: <000901cd1e7b$387ba390$a972eab0$@be>
Message-ID: <A61F21EBEE4B4DCDB0B9F2629C95F9EB@ownerfbf08f40c>

Thanks for the report, and putting it in context -- we've seen how such serious accidents are only sporadically reported over the years, and perhaps even top Russian space officials don't have complete records. It was certainly the case with the reports of fires on Salyut vehicles and on Mir. Often the only data ever released was in personal anecdotes, often conflicting.



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bart Hendrickx 
  To: FPSPACE at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 5:24 PM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] 1988 Mir emergency disclosed


  The latest issue of "Novosti kosmonavtiki" carries an interview with former cosmonaut Vladimir Titov. In the interview Titov describes a hitherto undisclosed emergency that arose aboard Mir in March 1988 during his year-long mission with Musa Manarov.  The problems began after Mission Control had sent commands to change the orientation of the station. The crew noticed something was amiss when the Sun showed up in a porthole where it wasn't supposed to be visible. It turned out that the solar panels were no longer facing the Sun and the station's batteries were slowly draining. When the crew reported they were losing power and asked to check the orientation, Mission Control responded everything was fine. They got the same response during the following orbit, Mission Control saying the reorientation would take a while. Unknown to mission controllers, they had sent an erroneous command to the station.

   

  After this pass there were five orbits where the station didn't pass over Soviet territory and communications with Mission Control were impossible. When they entered the Earth's shadow over the Indian Ocean, the crew got a "minimal voltage" alarm and critical systems began shutting down. The station went dark and  on board it was "dead silent", as Titov describes it. As a result of the power loss, the magnetic suspension system of the Kvant module's control moment gyros ("gyrodines") no longer worked, causing the rapidly rotating gyros to come into contact with their housing as they began despinning. This caused some loud bangs, which had the crew very worried. Specialists would later tell them that the gyros could have "ripped the station to pieces" and that they had been very lucky.

   

  Subsequently, the crew tried to contact Mission Control with the radio systems of Soyuz, but there was no response. Titov then slowly improved the station's orientation by activating the Soyuz thrusters, with Manarov looking out one of Mir's portholes and passing on the necessary commands. This gave them enough power for lights and ventilators to turn on again. However, the station's computers were down and the Elektron oxygen generation system had failed, forcing the crew to use solid-fuel oxygen generators ("candles") for about two months. Many other systems had broken down as well because of the power failure and although some spare parts were available aboard Mir many had to be delivered by Progress cargo vehicles. Apparently, things didn't return to normal until the launch of the Soviet-Bulgarian visiting crew in June 1988. 

   

  One wonders if the lessons learned from this emergency situation were passed on to later Mir crews. A similar power failure occurred aboard Mir during the Euromir-94 mission in October 1994  and the crew didn't initially contact Mission Control via Soyuz or take the initiative to use the Soyuz thrusters to restore orientation. When the same scenario repeated itself after the Progress collision in 1997, it was by all accounts Michael Foale and not Tsibliyev or Lazutkin who came up with the idea of activating the Soyuz thrusters.

   

  It has taken almost twenty-five years for this story to come to light and we're talking about a mission that took place in the early years of "glasnost". How many more such revelations can we expect? Is this just the tip of the iceberg?

   

  Bart Hendrickx

   

   



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From Heinz.Janssen2 at gmx.de  Fri Apr 20 03:11:11 2012
From: Heinz.Janssen2 at gmx.de (Heinz Janssen)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:11:11 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: Re:  Antonin Vitek
Message-ID: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net>

Dennis Newkirk and Antonin Vitek both dead - really hard for this community.

R.I.P.

Heinz Janssen, Wittmund, Germany

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:43:59 -0400
Von: Chris Jones <clj at panix.com>
An: fpspace at www.friends-partners.org
Betreff: Re: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek

After praising the Czech-English efforts of Google Translate, I neglected to
offer evidence.  Here is the translation of the article at 
http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz

What follows the horizontal line is Google Translate, not me.

__________

Antonin Vitek died. Always know what and why they moved in space
28th February 2012   10:46
At the age of 72 years died after a long illness popularizer Space Antonin
Vitek. Is the author of the largest databases of artificial objects in space.
No media watched the shuttle liftoff or could not do without it. Whether on
radio, television or Technet.cz always funny and yet accurately informed
about what is at the start or happening in space.

Antonin Vitek | Photo: Lukas Prochazka, MF DNES
When he moved in space even garbage V?tek enough to call and he always knew
why it happened and what it might mean for humanity. Rarely is because he had
to look up some materials. Most of them already had in mind a long time ago,
or even on your site unique Space 40 , which deals with satellites and space
probes.

Antonin Vitek amazed the audience commented starts landing spacecraft or his
absolute knowledge of everything that is happening at the moment. He knew
from memory the exact time data when the operations during the countdown
begins and how it will end. The color of smoke and places he knew exactly
what was being ignited or disconnected and that is all right or not. He could
perceive, interpret and graphically describe the viewer's eye going almost
invisible or imperceptible. Not only in this respect was and still is
irreplaceable.

Antonin Vitek was born on 25 January 1940 and until 1985 worked  at the
Institute of Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry. He participated among others
in the development of CSK-1 crystallizer for satellite station Salyut 7 and
Mir legendary. Until his death he worked at the Academy of Sciences.

Vitek is the author of numerous articles on space travel in the journal Space
and Aeronautics + Astronautics. He is also co-author of Small Space
Encyclopedia (1982). Based on the series, which was created for our server,
released in 2008 with his longtime friend, a professional journalist and
publicist Karl Pacnerem book  half-century of space travel . In 2009, won the
prize Litter Astronomico, which awarded him the Czech Astronomical Society
for the popularization of aerospace leadership and the aforementioned
globally unique Internet Encyclopedia Astronautics SPACE 40 . For a long time
worked with daily MF Dnes. He was among the first informed the world about
the tragedy of space shuttle Columbia .

The editors Technet.cz collaborated since 2007, when the honor of the 50th
anniversary of the launch of the first artificial satellite, Sputnik began to
build on the previously mentioned series of half-century of space travel .
Came over a year. Loosely on him in 2010, followed by series of articles
Cosmic known and unknown ports . He was Antonin Vitek complete missed due to
illness.

Even in November 2011 delivered a lecture before a full house at the Academy
of Sciences building on current events in the universe (the record you can
see here ). Coincidentally, at that time was the main theme of the Russian
Phobos Grunt probe, which was so poorly programmed that in January, fell into
the Pacific Ocean .

Antonin Vitek died after a long and severe illness shortly after his second
birthday seventies.

Charles Pacner time ago my friend gave V?tek special article, you can read it
here .

Author: John Kuzn?k
Zdroj:
http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz
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From agzak at optonline.net  Fri Apr 20 09:14:54 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:14:54 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>

Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was showing
the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from there.
:)

 



From tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov  Fri Apr 20 13:51:01 2012
From: tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov (Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351))
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 12:51:01 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net> <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>

The REALLY bad news is that Roscosmos has joined the party.  See their English language posts about the launch at http://www.facebook.com/Roscosmos.

Tom

 

-----Original Message-----
From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:15 AM
To: Untitled
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M

Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was showing
the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from there.
:)

 


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

From agzak at optonline.net  Fri Apr 20 14:29:20 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:29:20 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <CBB72340.18675%agzak@optonline.net>

Looks like blind "copy and paste" from NASA or something like that.


On 4/20/12 1:51 PM, "Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351)"
<tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov> wrote:

> The REALLY bad news is that Roscosmos has joined the party.  See their English
> language posts about the launch at http://www.facebook.com/Roscosmos.
> 
> Tom
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org
> [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:15 AM
> To: Untitled
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
> 
> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
> pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was showing
> the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
> missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from there.
> :)
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace



From clj at panix.com  Sat Apr 21 00:07:47 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 00:07:47 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net> <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20120421000747.6a35c105@cloyd>

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:14:54 -0400 Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net> wrote:

> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> missions.

Although there's still no excuse for NASA (or anyone) referring to 
Progress M-15M as Progress 47, there is no previous spacecraft with this
designation.  The original Progress series (Progress Classic? :-) ended with
Progress 42.

From brharvey at iol.ie  Sat Apr 21 05:09:30 2012
From: brharvey at iol.ie (Brian Harvey)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:09:30 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
Message-ID: <2553A85B-C685-46E4-8873-A326D9DD8502@iol.ie>

The ISS was followed in orbit last night (2200 GMT+1) by a Progress at 2206.

Does anyone know was this the new Progress M-15M, or the old Progress M-14M in independent flight?



Brian Harvey
Dublin, Ireland

From dokter.nuyens at telenet.be  Sat Apr 21 08:40:52 2012
From: dokter.nuyens at telenet.be (Zeger Nuyens)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 14:40:52 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
Message-ID: <4F92AAD4.6000505@telenet.be>

> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:14:54 -0400 Anatoly Zak<agzak at optonline.net  <http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace>>  wrote:
>
> >/  Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> />/  usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> />/  missions.
> /
> Although there's still no excuse for NASA (or anyone) referring to
> Progress M-15M as Progress 47, there is no previous spacecraft with this
> designation.  The original Progress series (Progress Classic? :-) ended with
> Progress 42.
One more time, I will continue to use the official Russian denomination 
until my dying day!
It is and always will be Progress M-15M.

Zeger Nuyens
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sat Apr 21 09:29:52 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 14:29:52 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <4F92AAD4.6000505@telenet.be>
References: <4F92AAD4.6000505@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <3DE01EA5F14445839048C6195AE76D54@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

My view is that anyone who uses the NASA designators instead of the correct names (as assigned by the Russians) for Progress and Soyuz spacecraft is showing their total ignorance of the Russian spacecraft, and therefore their views and comments should be totally ignored.

Phillip Clark


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Zeger Nuyens 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 1:40 PM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M


On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:14:54 -0400 Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net> wrote:

> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> missions.

Although there's still no excuse for NASA (or anyone) referring to 
Progress M-15M as Progress 47, there is no previous spacecraft with this
designation.  The original Progress series (Progress Classic? :-) ended with
Progress 42.
One more time, I will continue to use the official Russian denomination until my dying day!
  It is and always will be Progress M-15M.

  Zeger Nuyens



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From jbcharle at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 21:43:23 2012
From: jbcharle at gmail.com (John)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:43:23 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>
References: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net> <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
 <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <0C5D4C4C-6DCA-4834-AEB7-05A6B69629F8@gmail.com>

Even if the Russians do it themselves, that doesn't make it right? Oh well, everybody has to be offended by something. 

As for me, it is hearing the press refer to the latest launch as "a Soyuz TMA-2M spacecraft". As if the vehicle-specific designator is the name of a series, like "280ZX" or "XB-70". 

JBC
Sent from my iPhone. 
Please forgive typos. 

On Apr 20, 2012, at 12:51, "Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351)" <tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov> wrote:

> The REALLY bad news is that Roscosmos has joined the party.  See their English language posts about the launch at http://www.facebook.com/Roscosmos.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:15 AM
> To: Untitled
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
> 
> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
> pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was showing
> the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
> missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from there.
> :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sun Apr 22 02:30:11 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 07:30:11 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <0C5D4C4C-6DCA-4834-AEB7-05A6B69629F8@gmail.com>
References: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net> <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
 <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>
 <0C5D4C4C-6DCA-4834-AEB7-05A6B69629F8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1DDBE30D20C47C19E764C10CDCE5F00@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

The situation is extremely simple.

The Progress and Soyuz spacecraft are RUSSIAN spacecraft and therefore the 
correct names are those assigned by the Russians.

Anything that NASA and other idiots might want to call the spacecraft is 
totally irrelevant - no-one else has the right the name Russian spacecraft.

It is OK using designators 47P for the 47th Progress to be launched to ISS 
but this designator is simply an internal NASA one because they cannot seem 
to handle the actual spacecraft names (although they had no difficulty in 
correctly naming shuttle missions or the current ATV and HTV freighters). 
Sadly the thick members of the media picked up the internal NASA designators 
and since they knew nothing about the history of Russian spacecraft names a 
mission like 1P suddenly became "Progress 1" - which of course was actually 
launched to Salyut 6 in early 1978, not to ISS.

Anyone who uses the "P" and "S" designators for Progress and Soyuz 
spacecraft instead of the correct Russian names - which are easily 
available, of course - automatically has zero credibility with me, whether 
it's someone in the NASA media room or some minor journalist.

Phillip Clark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John" <jbcharle at gmail.com>
To: "Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351)" <tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov>
Cc: "FPSPACE" <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M


> Even if the Russians do it themselves, that doesn't make it right? Oh 
> well, everybody has to be offended by something.
>
> As for me, it is hearing the press refer to the latest launch as "a Soyuz 
> TMA-2M spacecraft". As if the vehicle-specific designator is the name of a 
> series, like "280ZX" or "XB-70".
>
> JBC
> Sent from my iPhone.
> Please forgive typos.
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 12:51, "Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351)" 
> <tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>> The REALLY bad news is that Roscosmos has joined the party.  See their 
>> English language posts about the launch at 
>> http://www.facebook.com/Roscosmos.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org 
>> [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly 
>> Zak
>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:15 AM
>> To: Untitled
>> Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
>>
>> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
>> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
>> missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
>> pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was 
>> showing
>> the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
>> missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from 
>> there.
>> :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FPSPACE mailing list
>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>> _______________________________________________
>> FPSPACE mailing list
>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> 



From bergcvd at zonnet.nl  Sun Apr 22 03:53:37 2012
From: bergcvd at zonnet.nl (Kees van den Berg)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:53:37 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
Message-ID: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>

Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri. 

Russia's Progress M-14M has undocked from the International Space Station..... Others say:  Russia's Progress 46P has undocked from the  ISS. Other vehicle, other station? NO !!! 
Simply: Progress M-14M AKA 46P. So we write: Progress M-14M / 46P and the International Space Station = ISS

That's all. Stop the silly discussion about designations.

In reference to: Progress M-14M / 46P made way for the Progress M-15M/47P.
Is there anybody out there who does not understand this?

Come on fpspacers behave like grown up and stop a childish game.


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We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam.
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sun Apr 22 04:07:44 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:07:44 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <F484CB99D6D14EDDAA4E71EF46D738DF@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Sorry, Kees, but I have to totally disagree with you.

The correct names for the two Progress spacecraft which you name are Progress M-14M and Progress M-15M and NOT 46P and 47P respectively.   The latter designators are the figments of NASA's imagination and have no bearing on the correct names of the spacecraft.

When you read about Progress 1 do you think of the spacecraft launched in 1978?   Because in NASA-speak it's the first cargo freighter launched to ISS around two decades later.   This NASA-inspired use of incorrect spacecraft names causes confusion amongst those who do not know about those who think that ISS is the only space station that has ever existed.

It is as simple as that.   I never have and I never will take any prisoners on this subject.

Phillip Clark


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kees van den Berg 
  To: fpspace 
  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:53 AM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????


  Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
  Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri. 

  Russia's Progress M-14M has undocked from the International Space Station..... Others say:  Russia's Progress 46P has undocked from the  ISS. Other vehicle, other station? NO !!! 
  Simply: Progress M-14M AKA 46P. So we write: Progress M-14M / 46P and the International Space Station = ISS

  That's all. Stop the silly discussion about designations.

  In reference to: Progress M-14M / 46P made way for the Progress M-15M/47P.
  Is there anybody out there who does not understand this?

  Come on fpspacers behave like grown up and stop a childish game.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 06:31:40 2012
From: rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com (Rui Barbosa)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:31:40 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <CAHkaAPf_KeTy_sFZrhPpxTT2KQeb1j=HNCYD0LZfPmGUwgDC_g@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, but I have never seen such crazy justification for this! It simply
doesn't make sense. I know that Sasha Kaleri is the cosmonaut, but for
NASA, and as Phil said, Progress 1 was not launched in 1978!

The problem is that NASA doesn't only use Progress M-15M/47P, almost always
says Progress 47, simply as that. For me, for you, for many of us, we know
what NASA is talking about, for the people outside the space community that
only randomly read the newspaper in the subway, that vehicle is identified
in the wrong manner and NASA shouldn't do that!


-- 
Rui C. Barbosa
Braga - Portugal
www.zenite.nu/orbita
www.carris-geres.blogspot.com
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From agzak at optonline.net  Sun Apr 22 07:33:58 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 07:33:58 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <CBB964E6.1869F%agzak@optonline.net>

Don?t give them wrong ideas ? they might decide to re-name all Russian
cosmonauts into something ?that sounds better for ordinary Americans.? :)


On 4/22/12 3:53 AM, "Kees van den Berg" <bergcvd at zonnet.nl> wrote:

> Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but
> everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
> Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr
> "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri.
> 

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From dokter.nuyens at telenet.be  Sun Apr 22 08:01:04 2012
From: dokter.nuyens at telenet.be (Zeger Nuyens)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:01:04 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
Message-ID: <4F93F300.4090806@telenet.be>

> It is OK using designators 47P for the 47th Progress to be launched to ISS
> but this designator is simply an internal NASA one because they cannot seem
> to handle the actual spacecraft names (although they had no difficulty in
> correctly naming shuttle missions or the current ATV and HTV freighters).
> Sadly the thick members of the media picked up the internal NASA designators
> and since they knew nothing about the history of Russian spacecraft names a
> mission like 1P suddenly became "Progress 1" - which of course was actually
> launched to Salyut 6 in early 1978, not to ISS.

That is exactly what this discussion is all about.
Nasa can name the European ATV and the Japanese HTV correctly but cannot 
do the same for Russian spacecraft simply because they don't want to do so.
Progress M-15M to dock soon!

Zeger Nuyens

From agzak at optonline.net  Sun Apr 22 08:11:23 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 08:11:23 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <CBB96DAB.186A6%agzak@optonline.net>

BTW, When you meet Aleksandr Kaleri, I really do not recommend to call him
?Sasha.? In Russian culture, informal versions of names for an adult can
only be used by your parents, spouse or close friends. When NASA TV,
American journalists or even some Russians start identifying themselves with
short names in public, it sounds really idiotic if not vulgar. ;)

Anatoly Zak
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com




On 4/22/12 3:53 AM, "Kees van den Berg" <bergcvd at zonnet.nl> wrote:

> Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but
> everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
> Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr
> "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri.
>  
> Russia?s Progress M-14M has undocked from the International Space Station.....
> Others say:  Russia?s Progress 46P has undocked from the  ISS. Other vehicle,
> other station? NO !!!
> Simply: Progress M-14M AKA 46P. So we write: Progress M-14M / 46P and the
> International Space Station = ISS
>  
> That's all. Stop the silly discussion about designations.
>  
> In reference to: Progress M-14M / 46P made way for the Progress M-15M/47P.
> Is there anybody out there who does not understand this?
>  
> Come on fpspacers behave like grown up and stop a childish game.
>  
> 
> 
> I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> .
> SPAMfighter has removed 2711 of my spam emails to date.
> 
> Do you have a slow PC? <http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen>
> Try free scan!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

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From jbcharle at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 09:41:21 2012
From: jbcharle at gmail.com (John)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 08:41:21 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>

Kees, I agree with you. Reading these ongoing diatribes defending Russian nomenclature that even the Russians don't defend reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."

JBC
Sent from my iPhone. 
Please forgive typos. 

On Apr 22, 2012, at 2:53, "Kees van den Berg" <bergcvd at zonnet.nl> wrote:

> Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
> Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri.
>  
> Russia?s Progress M-14M has undocked from the International Space Station..... Others say:  Russia?s Progress 46P has undocked from the  ISS. Other vehicle, other station? NO !!!
> Simply: Progress M-14M AKA 46P. So we write: Progress M-14M / 46P and the International Space Station = ISS
>  
> That's all. Stop the silly discussion about designations.
>  
> In reference to: Progress M-14M / 46P made way for the Progress M-15M/47P.
> Is there anybody out there who does not understand this?
>  
> Come on fpspacers behave like grown up and stop a childish game.
>  
> 
> I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
> SPAMfighter has removed 2711 of my spam emails to date.
> 
> Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sun Apr 22 10:12:42 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:12:42 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
 <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Probably the reason that the Russians do not comment is that they use the correct names.   And therefore Russian writers always use the correct names.

It is only stupid westerners who believe that "if NASA says it's true then it must be true".   

Such people are not worth considering seriously.

Phillip Clark




----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John 
  To: Kees van den Berg 
  Cc: fpspace 
  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????


  Kees, I agree with you. Reading these ongoing diatribes defending Russian nomenclature that even the Russians don't defend reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."
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From mike at heney.net  Sun Apr 22 10:57:24 2012
From: mike at heney.net (Michael K. Heney)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:57:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
 <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
 <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1204221034190.7787@mach-25.com>


I hate to jump in - but ...

First off, in Phillip's defense, I am a HUGE fan of tilting at windmills. 
It's good for the soul, even if the chances of prevailing are on par with 
a manned moon landing in 2015.

Rui mentions being correct for the sake of the "people outside the space 
community" (noting that we insiders can figure things out...)  The thing 
is, people outside the community don't know - or care - about such things, 
just as they don't care what the tail number of the aircraft they're 
flying on is.  Heck, many couldn't tell you if they flew on a Boeing or an 
Airbus - their interest in spacecraft designations is generally less.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of multiple names for a given flight.
I saw Atlantis (OV-104) launch on flight STS-135 flying the ULF-7 mission 
on the ISS manifest.  Similarly, folks will say they watched the Terra 
launch, which was an Atlas-IIAS on vehicle AC-141.  Progress-M 15M is a 
vehicle, Progress 47P is a mission designation.  I can live with that, 
because it's not *my* windmill to tilt at.  (I have several of my own, 
thank you.)

Finally - I think the reaction to this thread is because we hear this 
argument.  Every.  Single.  Progress.  And.  Soyuz.  Flight.  We know.
We sympathize.  (although a bit less on each repeat.)   But as there's 
nothing this community can really DO about the matter, the drumbeat gets a 
touch tiresome.

Strictly my own opinion - worth what you paid for it.

- Mike Heney


On Sun, 22 Apr 2012, Phillip Clark wrote:

> Probably the reason that the Russians do not comment is that they use the correct names.   And therefore Russian writers always use the correct names.
>
> It is only stupid westerners who believe that "if NASA says it's true then it must be true".
>
> Such people are not worth considering seriously.
>
> Phillip Clark
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: John
>  To: Kees van den Berg
>  Cc: fpspace
>  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:41 PM
>  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
>
>
>  Kees, I agree with you. Reading these ongoing diatribes defending Russian nomenclature that even the Russians don't defend reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."
>
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FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

From jbcharle at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 11:01:43 2012
From: jbcharle at gmail.com (John)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:01:43 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
 <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
 <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
Message-ID: <F0D21EF2-4537-496F-8821-0E62CE10C195@gmail.com>

Phil,

Maybe in deference to Russian correctness we should also pronounce the designators in Russian. I confess I will have trouble with the numbers but the proper names should be manageable. 

JBC
Sent from my iPhone. 
Please forgive typos. 

On Apr 22, 2012, at 9:12, "Phillip Clark" <phillipclark at btinternet.com> wrote:

> Probably the reason that the Russians do not comment is that they use the correct names.   And therefore Russian writers always use the correct names.
>  
> It is only stupid westerners who believe that "if NASA says it's true then it must be true".   
>  
> Such people are not worth considering seriously.
>  
> Phillip Clark
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John
> To: Kees van den Berg
> Cc: fpspace
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
> 
> Kees, I agree with you. Reading these ongoing diatribes defending Russian nomenclature that even the Russians don't defend reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sun Apr 22 11:19:14 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:19:14 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Correct spacecraft names
Message-ID: <547295DCEA92451F811CD2C2BE669EF3@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Let us go back to the beginning with the story of the correct designator systems for missions to ISS.

 

NASA found it rather difficult to account for Russian spacecraft names which were flying to the Mir Complex during its last few months and to ISS: and they were used to dealing with only their own spacecraft.   Therefore, purely for internal planning purposes, they decided to have their own designator system for missions/spacecraft.   This would be a numerical designator to show the planned launch sequence and then an alphabetical designator to indicate the class of mission: the alphabetical designator was R for a Russian module, P for a Progress cargo freighter and S for a Soyuz spacecraft.

 

The shuttle missions had their own ISS designators as well.   So, the first shuttle mission to ISS mission was designated ISS-01A.   This mission was flown on the STS-88 mission, yet no-one thought it was appropriate to call this flight of Endeavour "STS-01A", using the internal ISS designator system as the STS designator - that would have been plain wrong.

 

The first Progress launch to ISS had the NASA internal designator 1P and this mission was flown by Progress-M1 3: yet for some unknown reason NASA (maybe confused with the difficult Russian names of spacecraft?) decided to call this mission "Progress 1": this is plain wrong.   The correct name for the spacecraft was Progress-M1 3, just as the correct designator for the first shuttle ISS mission was STS-88 and not "STS-01A": the real Progress 1 was launched to Salyut 6 in January 1978.

 

Similarly, the first ISS resident crew was launched on a mission designated by NASA as 1S: however, the correct spacecraft name - as identified by the Russians who built, launched and owned the spacecraft - was Soyuz-TM 31 (OK, it was Soyuz TM-31, but it always made more sense to relocate the hyphen!).   Sadly the NASA public affairs people who could not make sense of the Russian spacecraft numbers decided that this would be "Soyuz 1" and the media - who believed that if NASA says something then it must be true - continued to use the "Soyuz 1" designator: this is plain wrong, of course - does remember the real Soyuz 1 and Vladimir Komarov?

 

Sadly NASA never corrected the errors in naming Russian spacecraft, although for some inexplicable reason they were able to always get the STS designators of shuttle missions correct.

 

It is about time that the NASA designator system is recognised as not representing the official naming of Russian spacecraft (as the spacecraft owners, only the Russians have the right to name their spacecraft anyway!) but an internal designator system and thus NASA in its public releases and other writers and commentators used the correct Progress and Soyuz designators.

 

As a compromise, I would of course accept "Progress-M 15M (ISS-47P)" for the object catalogued as 2012-015A, but why complicate things?   The correct name of the spacecraft is Progress-M 15M (wherever you put the hyphen!) and that's the one which should always be used.

 

Let us please put an end to this nonsense and only use the correct spacecraft names.

 

Simple!

 

Phillip Clark
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From agzak at optonline.net  Sun Apr 22 11:46:03 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:46:03 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1204221034190.7787@mach-25.com>
Message-ID: <CBB99FFB.186B8%agzak@optonline.net>

Airbus-737 successfully docked to the ISS this morning... Sorry for another
piece of tiresome information. :)



On 4/22/12 10:57 AM, "Michael K. Heney" <mike at heney.net> wrote:

Heck, many couldn't tell you if they flew on a Boeing or an
> Airbus 

But as there's 
> nothing this community can really DO about the matter, the drumbeat gets a
> touch tiresome.


IMHO, historical record and journalistic accuracy is important and it should
be reminded to NASA as long as they continue this policy.



From agzak at optonline.net  Sun Apr 22 11:57:50 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:57:50 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBB9A2BE.186BB%agzak@optonline.net>

On 4/22/12 9:41 AM, "John" <jbcharle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kees, I agree with you.
> 
I always agree with anything my government says...
> 
> Reading these ongoing diatribes
> 
... And if I hear a different opinion, I characterize it as ?diatribe?
> 
> that even the Russians don't defend
> 
That?s evidenced from a fake Roskosmos page on Facebook?
> 
> reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The
> reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."
> 
...oh, that why he worked so hard on his doctorate degree? :)


Anatoly Zak
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com

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From jeoberg at comcast.net  Mon Apr 23 13:37:21 2012
From: jeoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:37:21 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
	theColumbia have been saved?
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <29EEB392B09D46269521EC59EC90151D@ownerfbf08f40c>

The leading 'repair' scenarios involved fixing the hole and redesigning entry to imbalance the heat load away from the wounded side -- and nobody even now knows if it might have worked, although the consensus is not. Also, rushing the next launch would have involved launching without being sure the flaw wasn't generic and might strike again. a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.

Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peter Pesavento 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Cc: 'James E Oberg' 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 8:44 PM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


  On the local PBS station this evening they showed the BBC Horizon special "Guide to the Space Shuttle."

   

  One thing completely jumped out at me (besides the error claiming that Salyut 1 was still up in space until Mir, when they intended to mean a series of Salyut stations), was a short clip of our own fpspacer JimO, when they were talking about the Columbia disaster.

   

  The scenario that was explored was that if NASA had decided to investigate the impact of the external tank insulation on the orbiter wing while the mission was still on-going, and had they had some way of looking at it (they showed a terrestrial telescope somewhere..perhaps Palomar, perhaps something else), found out that the wing was compromised, could NASA have saved the Shuttle Columbia.  They also brought up having a rescue mission by another Shuttle, or have an astronaut do a spacewalk to look at the bottom of the craft..

   

  Now they had this very short clip of JimO appearing to say that Columbia could've side-slipped its way through re-entry and possibly survived, where the right side of the Shuttle could've borne the brunt of the re-entry (I believe it was the left wing that had the damage), and possibly could've saved the Shuttle from breaking up.

   

  JimO, do you believe that this scenario is viable (the documentary was issued in 2010)?  That they could've side-slipped (the term used by JimO in the video clip I believe was "crabbed") in?  Was there more to your interview JimO that they left out?

   

  Does this sound viable?  Does this sound do-able?

   

  I am putting this out there to those who may know more about this.  Because that would have had to have been at least a good long while (not mere seconds or mere minutes, like two or three or even ten) to engage this proposed side-slip..

   

  I find the suggestion by JimO interesting, but I don't know whether it could've possibly have been a viable method.  Hence this inquiry to the assembled.

   

  Hold forth with your opinions.  I am willing to read what others think.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Mon Apr 23 18:48:52 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 00:48:52 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <29EEB392B09D46269521EC59EC90151D@ownerfbf08f40c>
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
 <29EEB392B09D46269521EC59EC90151D@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjtOuRAU1zz7S8WcJ7dKTW11D6bf1wn5B50U5_wNEGOG3g@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no
spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled
Shuttle.


2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

> ** ********
> .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an
> Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
>
> Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.
>
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From agzak at optonline.net  Mon Apr 23 19:44:17 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:44:17 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <CADMBTjtOuRAU1zz7S8WcJ7dKTW11D6bf1wn5B50U5_wNEGOG3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net>

Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to
carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to
prepare such a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

Anatoly Zak
Creator & Publisher
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On 4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de> wrote:

> Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no
> spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.
> 
> 
> 2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>
>> .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane
>> within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
>> ?
>> Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Tue Apr 24 07:30:39 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:30:39 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] =?iso-8859-15?q?Fwd=3A_=5BNew_post=5D_New_BBC_Program?=
 =?iso-8859-15?q?=3A_=22Discovery=3A_Scott=27s_Legacy_-_Moon=22?=
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS55ADBACC149DE767E90C89C260@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Launius's Blog
Sent: 4/24/2012 11:11:15 AM
To: ljk4 at msn.com
Subject: [New post] New BBC Program: "Discovery: Scott's Legacy - Moon"

New post on Roger Launius's Blog
        [http://1.gravatar.com/blavatar/5ab615dc2687e96bf21dc4fa4be2f3ff?s=32&ts=1335265875]
[http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/488baba4b54ec638fa19eeebd09b6b69?s=50&d=identicon&r=G]<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/>
New BBC Program: ???Discovery: Scott???s Legacy ??? Moon???<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/new-bbc-program-discovery-scotts-legacy-moon/>
by launiusr<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/>

There is a???very fine recent radio program on BBC that I want to call your attention to, "Discovery: Scott's Legacy - Moon<http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00qqq78/Discovery_Scotts_Legacy_Programme_2_Moon/>." I was interviewed for this program and just heard the final product. The synopsis of the program is below:

Can the heroic age of Antarctic exploration help to show us the way back to the Moon?

One hundred years ago, Scott reached the South Pole. However, more than four decades passed before people went back there. On the Moon, Neil Armstrong took his leap for mankind in 1969 and it has been forty years since the last astronaut left the lunar surface. Presenter Kevin Fong talks to space scientists and historians to find out if Robert Scott's Antarctic exploits provide a road map for future human exploration of the Moon and the planet Mars.

Imperial and geopolitical motivations lay behind both South Polar exploration and the effort which took humans briefly to the lunar surface. But what would get us back to the Moon - would it be geopolitical rivalry or science?

In times of economic austerity (in the West at least), what scientific questions are important enough to justify exploration of the Moon? The six short Apollo visits to the lunar surface were enough to crack the mystery of how the Moon itself formed - namely that a Mars sized planet crashed into the early Earth. The molten rock that was blasted into orbit by that collision coalesced as our lunar neighbour.

Sending astronauts back to explore the rocks of the Moon could solve the most important mysteries about the early Earth - when did life first evolve and under what sort of conditions? Their findings could also settle the questions about the origins of our oceans here on Earth.

Among Kevin's other interviewee are NASA's Chief Administrator Charles Bolden, Apollo 17 astronaut Harrison Schmitt (the only geologist to walk on the Moon), NASA scientists Chris McKay and Jennifer Heldmann, Dr Ian Crawford of Birbeck College, University of London and space historian Roger Launius of the National Air and Space Museum of the Smithsonian Institute.

Check it out: Discovery: Scott's Legacy: Programme 2 - Moon<http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fiplayer%2Fepisode%2Fp00qqq78%2FDiscovery_Scotts_Legacy_Programme_2_Moon%2F&h=eAQGZilqzAQGRZ4ojSV6oyhYz5pf5teNiO4xxzJ1Vygq5vQ>

launiusr<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/> | April 24, 2012 at 11:10 am | Tags: Apollo<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=apollo>, Charles Bolden<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=charles-bolden>, cold war<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=cold-war>, Gene Cernan<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=gene-cernan>, Harrison Schmitt<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=harrison-schmitt>, History<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=history>, international relations<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=international-relations>, JFK<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=jfk>, Moon<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=moon>, Moon race<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=moon-race>, NASA<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=nasa>, presidential power<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=presidential-power>, public perceptions<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=public-perceptions>, public policy<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=public-policy>, science<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=science>, Soviet Union<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=soviet-union>, space science<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=space-science>, U.S. Civil Space<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=u-s-civil-space> | Categories: Apollo<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=28798383>, Cold War Competition<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=38272711>, History<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=678>, Lunar Exploration<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=1582972>, Personal<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=64>, Science<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=173>, Space<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=174> | URL: http://wp.me/pwYu1-PL

Comment<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/new-bbc-program-discovery-scotts-legacy-moon/#respond>    See all comments<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/new-bbc-program-discovery-scotts-legacy-moon/#comments>



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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Wed Apr 25 06:13:39 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 05:13:39 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
	theColumbia have been saved?
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
 <29EEB392B09D46269521EC59EC90151D@ownerfbf08f40c>
 <CADMBTjtOuRAU1zz7S8WcJ7dKTW11D6bf1wn5B50U5_wNEGOG3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9CEA82AD682042559356987C58EFD940@ownerfbf08f40c>

A 'spacecraft' wasn't necessary, since 'Columbia' retained full maneuver and EVA capability. Even a dumpster full of consumables, with a grapple fixture bolted on its side -- maybe 12 hours of work -- would have allowed mission-extension supplies to reach the crew, on one or even more launches over the first two weeks while the Orbiter still had electrical power.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gunter Krebs 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


  Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.



  2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

    .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.

    Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
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From jeoberg at comcast.net  Wed Apr 25 06:14:48 2012
From: jeoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 05:14:48 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
	theColumbia have been saved?
References: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>

Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anatoly Zak 
  To: Untitled 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


  Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to prepare such a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

  Anatoly Zak
  Creator & Publisher
  http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


  On 4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de> wrote:


    Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


    2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

      .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
       
      Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.



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    FPSPACE mailing list
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    http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace



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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Wed Apr 25 08:25:01 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:25:01 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
References: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net>
 <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjvRycL-V1yA2CvETxFvZJAQQYsgXhFE8k9s0TVA1FPzPw@mail.gmail.com>

That is unfortunately not that simple.

First, the make-shift-cargo-craft needed some capabilities to maneuvre near
the Shuttle, so that a rendezvous could be accomplished. The Ariane upper
stage is not capable of doing this. Also, some kind of stabilization would
have been needed to avoid tumbeling, which would make any attempt to catch
it futile. Therefore a spacecraft and not only a "metal box" is needed.

Second, the STS-107 mission did not carry the CANDARM, so the container
could not be grappled by it. The mssing CANADARM could also not provide a
platform for the Astronauts to grapple the container by hand.

Even if it were possible, to deliver such a make-shift-cargo-craft, it
would not have been able to replenish the orbiter consumables like the
H2/O2 needed for the fuel cells.


Gunter


2012/4/25 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

> **
> Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with
> grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net>
> *To:* Untitled <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
> theColumbia have been saved?
>
> Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed
> to carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to
> prepare such a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.
>
> Anatoly Zak
> Creator & Publisher
> http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com
>
>
> On 4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply
> no spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled
> Shuttle.
>
>
> 2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>
>
> .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an
> Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
>
> Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
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From agzak at optonline.net  Wed Apr 25 08:37:52 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:37:52 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <CBBD6860.1871E%agzak@optonline.net>

...because it would probably require lengthy modifications to the Progress?
mid-section to carry unpressurized cargo. It would likely take the effort
beyond the capability of the Shuttle to keep its crew alive. However, if the
Shuttle was designed to dock, any available Progress in the launch schedule
could be sent up (in fact, M-47 was launched right after the accident:

 http://www.russianspaceweb.com/progress.html#m47

Anatoly Zak

P.S. Did Columbia had manipulator and EVA capability in this mission? I
vaguely remember that some Spacelab missions would not carry the arm and EVA
airlocks could be used (if not disabled) by tunnels to Spacelab or to
Spacehab.




On 4/25/12 6:14 AM, "James E Oberg" <jeoberg at comcast.net> wrote:

> Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple
> fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  Anatoly Zak <mailto:agzak at optonline.net>
>>  
>> To: Untitled <mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>
>>  
>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
>>  
>> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide  to the Space Shuttle"...could
>> theColumbia have been saved?
>>  
>> 
>> Purely  speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to
>> carry  some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to
>> prepare such  a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.
>> 
>> Anatoly  Zak
>> Creator & Publisher
>> http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com
>> 
>> 
>> On  4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>>> Unfortunately this scenario was completely  impossible - there was simply no
>>> spacecraft available to be launched on an  Ariane towards the crippled
>>> Shuttle.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2012/4/23 James E Oberg  <jeoberg at comcast.net>
>>>  
>>>> .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies  on an
>>>> Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch  better.
>>>>  
>>>> Anything wouyld have been better than doing  nothing.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> FPSPACE  mailing list
>>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> FPSPACE mailing  list
>>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>>> 

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From john.b.charles at nasa.gov  Wed Apr 25 10:20:36 2012
From: john.b.charles at nasa.gov (Charles, John B. (JSC-SA211))
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:20:36 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <CBBD6860.1871E%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
 <CBBD6860.1871E%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <593E1BFA5C72874DAA6CA1267E6962A44B2744E8FF@NDMSSCC06.ndc.nasa.gov>

No RMS robotic arm on Columbia STS-107. However, all flights had EVA capability and trained crewmembers for contingency end-of-mission EVAs such as manually closing the payload bay doors.
John Charles

From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:38 AM
To: Untitled
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?

...because it would probably require lengthy modifications to the Progress' mid-section to carry unpressurized cargo. It would likely take the effort beyond the capability of the Shuttle to keep its crew alive. However, if the Shuttle was designed to dock, any available Progress in the launch schedule could be sent up (in fact, M-47 was launched right after the accident:

 http://www.russianspaceweb.com/progress.html#m47

Anatoly Zak

P.S. Did Columbia had manipulator and EVA capability in this mission? I vaguely remember that some Spacelab missions would not carry the arm and EVA airlocks could be used (if not disabled) by tunnels to Spacelab or to Spacehab.




On 4/25/12 6:14 AM, "James E Oberg" <jeoberg at comcast.net> wrote:
Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.

----- Original Message -----

From:  Anatoly Zak <mailto:agzak at optonline.net><mailto:agzak at optonline.net>

To: Untitled <mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org><mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>

Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM

Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide  to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


Purely  speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to carry  some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to prepare such  a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

Anatoly  Zak
Creator & Publisher
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On  4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>  wrote:


Unfortunately this scenario was completely  impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an  Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


2012/4/23 James E Oberg  <jeoberg at comcast.net>

.... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies  on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch  better.

Anything wouyld have been better than doing  nothing.


________________________________
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE  mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace



________________________________


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing  list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From dsfportree at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 25 10:26:12 2012
From: dsfportree at hotmail.com (David Portree)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:26:12 -0600
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <593E1BFA5C72874DAA6CA1267E6962A44B2744E8FF@NDMSSCC06.ndc.nasa.gov>
References: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>,
 <CBBD6860.1871E%agzak@optonline.net>,
 <593E1BFA5C72874DAA6CA1267E6962A44B2744E8FF@NDMSSCC06.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <SNT133-W11D9D63D6826E00FF000FAD5270@phx.gbl>


My understanding is that handling cargo via EVA is a non-trivial challenge. Of course, in a desperate situation, non-trivial challenges are assumed.

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



From: john.b.charles at nasa.gov
To: agzak at optonline.net; fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:20:36 -0500
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?

Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?No RMS robotic arm on Columbia STS-107. However, all flights had EVA capability and trained crewmembers for contingency end-of-mission EVAs such as manually closing the payload bay doors.John Charles From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:38 AM
To: Untitled
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved? ...because it would probably require lengthy modifications to the Progress? mid-section to carry unpressurized cargo. It would likely take the effort beyond the capability of the Shuttle to keep its crew alive. However, if the Shuttle was designed to dock, any available Progress in the launch schedule could be sent up (in fact, M-47 was launched right after the accident:

 http://www.russianspaceweb.com/progress.html#m47

Anatoly Zak

P.S. Did Columbia had manipulator and EVA capability in this mission? I vaguely remember that some Spacelab missions would not carry the arm and EVA airlocks could be used (if not disabled) by tunnels to Spacelab or to Spacehab.




On 4/25/12 6:14 AM, "James E Oberg" <jeoberg at comcast.net> wrote:Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
----- Original Message ----- 
 
From:  Anatoly Zak <mailto:agzak at optonline.net>   
 
To: Untitled <mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>  
 
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
 
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide  to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?
 

Purely  speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to carry  some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to prepare such  a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

Anatoly  Zak
Creator & Publisher
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On  4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>  wrote:

 Unfortunately this scenario was completely  impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an  Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


2012/4/23 James E Oberg  <jeoberg at comcast.net>
 .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies  on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch  better.

Anything wouyld have been better than doing  nothing.
 _______________________________________________
FPSPACE  mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace


 

_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing  list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From agzak at optonline.net  Wed Apr 25 11:19:37 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:19:37 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <593E1BFA5C72874DAA6CA1267E6962A44B2744E8FF@NDMSSCC06.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <CBBD8E49.1872A%agzak@optonline.net>

Given that EVA was possible through the hatch in the tunnel between mid-deck
of the orbiter and the Spacehab module, and if Progress could make orbital
inclination change after launch from Baikonur, and if it could maintain
station-keeping near the Shuttle in stabilized position, the Shuttle could
probably approach close enough for a spacewalking astronaut to pull a
package either out of a cutaway in the mid-section, or from a docking port
hatch in the unpressurized cargo module. Maybe?

Anatoly Zak
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com



On 4/25/12 10:20 AM, "Charles, John B. (JSC-SA211)"
<john.b.charles at nasa.gov> wrote:

> No RMS robotic arm on Columbia STS-107. However, all flights had EVA
> capability and trained crewmembers for contingency end-of-mission EVAs such as
> manually closing the payload bay doors.
> John Charles

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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Wed Apr 25 11:37:20 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:37:20 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
	theColumbia have been saved?
References: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net>
 <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
 <CADMBTjvRycL-V1yA2CvETxFvZJAQQYsgXhFE8k9s0TVA1FPzPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A75604E0D4AC42A8A60035B1F1DBA9C5@ownerfbf08f40c>

Thanks for the reminder re the RMS -- so a manual grapple would be required. That has been done before.

Desperate times enable desperate measures.

No active control system would be needed for a cargo pod. Nice, maybe, but necessary, no.

Besides, in this scenario, more than one pod would be under rushed prep at various sites. And more than one might have been launchable in the two weeks [or more, when stretched] before fuel cell cryo ran out.

And run out it would -- the fuel cells would soon go off. But for comm power, send up batteries and portable radios, and for heater power, send up blankets. And flashlights. At that point, it's still a crew rescue challenge, but 'repair' has become impossible.

The airlock would still function without internal power.

Once out the hatch -- That's what the second shuttle would be available for.

Only meant to make the point -- the inexorable time cutoff for Columbia crew on-orbit survival was not nearly as adamantine as first claimed here.

My buddies at the MCC, devastated by the crew's deaths, also were bitterly disappointed that they hadn't been given the chance to DO something. Or to go down swinging.


 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gunter Krebs 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


  That is unfortunately not that simple. 

  First, the make-shift-cargo-craft needed some capabilities to maneuvre near the Shuttle, so that a rendezvous could be accomplished. The Ariane upper stage is not capable of doing this. Also, some kind of stabilization would have been needed to avoid tumbeling, which would make any attempt to catch it futile. Therefore a spacecraft and not only a "metal box" is needed.

  Second, the STS-107 mission did not carry the CANDARM, so the container could not be grappled by it. The mssing CANADARM could also not provide a platform for the Astronauts to grapple the container by hand.

  Even if it were possible, to deliver such a make-shift-cargo-craft, it would not have been able to replenish the orbiter consumables like the H2/O2 needed for the fuel cells.


  Gunter



  2012/4/25 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

    Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Anatoly Zak 
      To: Untitled 
      Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


      Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to prepare such a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

      Anatoly Zak
      Creator & Publisher
      http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


      On 4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de> wrote:


        Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


        2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

          .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
           
          Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.



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From juliermiller at earthlink.net  Wed Apr 25 15:12:46 2012
From: juliermiller at earthlink.net (Julie Miller)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:12:46 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could the
 Columbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Every single scenario I've seen which claims that Columbia could have 
been saved assumes several things -

Either -

A change to the laws of physics (having Columbia rendezvous with the 
space station or launching anything from Bakinour)

or -

Too much knowledge which didn't exist at the time (anything which 
requires hindsight or any information unavailable to the mission 
control teams during the mission or finding out information before it 
was actually available)

Equipment aboard Columbia which didn't exist (Columbia had no EVA 
compatible cameras - video or digital, no robot arm, and only had 
LiHO canisters, etc.)

Almost infinite resources on the ground (the capability to ask, 
receive permission, and gain access to launch vehicles in other 
countries, prepare ascent profiles in less than a week, some kind of 
canister which would fit on that rocket, etc.)

and

A team on the ground which never (or at least almost never) makes any 
mistakes and always selects the correct choices while preparing for 
the rescue attempt.

If you do come up with a scenario where this super-intelligent never 
makes mistakes team can save Columbia, then you've got to ask 
yourself why didn't the same people have those abilities in October 
2002 at the STS-113 flight readiness review when the STS-112 falling 
bipod issue was addressed and effectively ignored? That's the point 
where the Columbia "rescue" scenario should have been performed - 
ground the fleet until a fix is in place, just as was done for the 
flowliners earlier that year.

Discussing scenarios for saving Columbia's crews is like discussing 
how all of the passengers on the Titanic could have been saved, or 
saving everybody in the second World Trade Center tower after the 
first one was hit, or any other historical scenario. It's always 
easier to say why didn't they do things differently after the fact.

Borrowing an Ariane rocket to launch supplies to extend Columbia's 
stay in space requires many assumptions - a new launch trajectory 
which had never been flown, more maneuvering and engine restarts of 
the Ariane upper stage than has ever been done, a non-existent cargo 
canister (to say nothing about the shipping and customs problems to 
get the cargo to French Guiana), no rendezvous aids, some way of at 
least *partially* stabilizing that container once it's within place 
where it can be reached from an outstretched arm in a spacesuit, some 
way of getting that container temporarily attached to the shuttle (I 
suppose an EVA tether would do, even though the container would 
probably bounce back and forth and eventually damage the tunnel), a 
way of avoiding the jack-in-the-box effect when opening up the 
container to take the stuff into the airlock (unless you're assuming 
that you can squeeze everything into a container small enough to fit 
into the airlock), and probably a bunch of other things.

Remember that the repair/rescue scenarios which NASA came up with 
under the CAIB's orders starts with the assumption that there's 
ABSOLUTE FIRM EVIDENCE 5 days after launch that Columbia is doomed 
and will not survive reentry. Only with that hard axiom in place do 
you make the decision to cancel all crew activity, including the 
experiments the crew was performing, kill the rats (two extra LiHO 
canisters), and go into minimum power mode. And even that assumes 
that you've got no major issues while preparing Atlantis for a rescue 
mission AND that you're willing to launch Atlantis with the absolute 
knowledge that on two of the previous three launches foam fell off 
the bipod (STS-112 and STS-107) and caused damage to flight hardware 
in BOTH instances and you don't know whether or not it fell off on 
the third (STS-113) because it was a night launch. And even then, 
that rescue scenario was devised after weeks of work and the 
knowledge that the Columbia accident had occurred (hindsight).

They COULD NOT have had hard evidence that early - there just wasn't 
enough information that early. The fact that the foam hit wasn't even 
known until the day after launch when the film was examined.

Every single day STS-107 was in space the crew was busy performing 
their experiments, including extremely heavy exercise for the 
European ARMS experiment. That consumes a LOT of LiHO cans. Only 
after the Mission Evaluation Team is concerned enough that there 
*might* be a chance that a rescue would be needed would it be 
justifiable to tell the crew to stop doing experiments and power down 
everything until Mission Control can determine whether or not the 
wing is safe, if an emergency spacewalk might be needed, or whatever 
else might be necessary. If that happens after about half way into 
the mission they've already consumed enough LiHO cans that there 
wouldn't be enough time to fly up emergency supplies.

I don't recall how many LiHO cans were onboard or how many extra 
weather wave-off days were available to the crew. I read that there 
was no consideration to extending the mission for science because the 
Biotube payload wanted to come back as quickly as possible.

If six members of the crew decide to sacrifice themselves and take 
the mythical suicide pills which don't exist then the remaining 
person would have enough supplies to last much longer. But - right or 
wrong - Mission Control considers the crew to be "one unit" when 
considering rescue scenarios, plans are only devised where everybody 
can be saved.

A plausible rescue which doesn't violate the laws of physics is not 
impossible - I'll agree with that. But impossible and could actually 
have been performed in the real world within the actual absolute 
constraints - I don't think so. (IMHO of course).

Of course for many of the media (not all) it's much more 
exciting/newsworthy/interesting to talk about possible rescue 
scenarios than the hard facts and real world limitations. (IMHO of course).


From agzak at optonline.net  Wed Apr 25 16:12:01 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:12:01 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could the
 Columbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CBBDD2D1.18734%agzak@optonline.net>

What laws of physics are violated when Proton's upper stages routinely take
off from Baikonur and make it all the way to zero-degree inclination and
geostationary altitude?! It is only a matter of enough propellant.

Considering "what if" scenarios might help to understand how to plan for the
future, IMHO. Note how many changes post-Columbia missions had: flights
within reach of the station, tiles inspections etc.


Anatoly Zak
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On 4/25/12 3:12 PM, "Julie Miller" <juliermiller at earthlink.net> wrote:


> 
> A change to the laws of physics (having Columbia rendezvous with the
> space station or launching anything from Bakinour)
> 

> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace



From dokter.nuyens at telenet.be  Wed Apr 25 16:25:16 2012
From: dokter.nuyens at telenet.be (Zeger Nuyens)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 22:25:16 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could the
 Columbia have been saved?
Message-ID: <4F985DAC.4090800@telenet.be>

While pondering possible "saving scenario's" might be intellectually 
gratifying,the naked fact is that at that time nobody knew Columbia was 
mortally wounded. I can agree some people should have known something 
was seriously wrong but they didn't. We only knew something was wrong 
when Columbia came streaking back over the California sky. By then,it 
was too late.
BTW what would have happened if Challenger had its O-ring burn through 
not at the ET side but at the outside of the SRB? My guess is that it 
would have reached orbit safely and when recovering the boosters 
somebody would have said "Boy,were we lucky this time" That's what 
accidents are all about. They shouldn't happen but they do.

Zeger Nuyens

From davidlrickman at aol.com  Wed Apr 25 18:14:08 2012
From: davidlrickman at aol.com (David L. Rickman)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:14:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <A75604E0D4AC42A8A60035B1F1DBA9C5@ownerfbf08f40c>
References: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net><7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c><CADMBTjvRycL-V1yA2CvETxFvZJAQQYsgXhFE8k9s0TVA1FPzPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A75604E0D4AC42A8A60035B1F1DBA9C5@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <8CEF147DE6B1AAA-1E14-787F4@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com>

My two cents worth: 

It was incredibly short sighted to send up any Shuttle without an ability to inspect for and repair any damaged or missing tiles the moment we realized that these vehicles routinely loose these tiles during launch.

As I recall, somebody was paid at one time to come up with a feasible repair kit, but failed to deliver on this. And, come on, let's be serious; as many hours as we've spend in space we never came up with the ability to do an inspection??? This could have been done without a spacewalk, with available technology, and without a significant weight constraint. I dare to say that even a High School student could design a system that would weigh less than 10 lbs. and at a cost of under $ 1,000.


It embarrassing how arrogant NASA can be at times.


Regards to all,


David L. Rickman
549 Caribou Road
Asheville, NC  28803
USA 










Follow my progress as I recreate the Soviet Lunniy Korabl spaceship in 1:5 scale at http://lunniykorabl.blogspot.com



-----Original Message-----
From: James E Oberg <jameseoberg at comcast.net>
To: Gunter Krebs <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>; fpspace <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 11:37 am
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


Thanks for the reminder re the RMS -- so a manual grapple would be required. That has been done before.
 
Desperate times enable desperate measures.
 
No active control system would be needed for a cargo pod. Nice, maybe, but necessary, no.
 
Besides, in this scenario, more than one pod would be under rushed prep at various sites. And more than one might have been launchable in the two weeks [or more, when stretched] before fuel cell cryo ran out.
 
And run out it would -- the fuel cells would soon go off. But for comm power, send up batteries and portable radios, and for heater power, send up blankets. And flashlights. At that point, it's still a crew rescue challenge, but 'repair' has become impossible.
 
The airlock would still function without internal power.
 
Once out the hatch -- That's what the second shuttle would be available for.
 
Only meant to make the point -- the inexorable time cutoff for Columbia crew on-orbit survival was not nearly as adamantine as first claimed here.
 
My buddies at the MCC, devastated by the crew's deaths, also were bitterly disappointed that they hadn't been given the chance to DO something. Or to go down swinging.
 
 
 
  
----- Original Message ----- 
  
From:   Gunter Krebs 
  
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org   
  
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:25   AM
  
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide   to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?
  


  
That is unfortunately not that simple. 

First,   the make-shift-cargo-craft needed some capabilities to maneuvre near the   Shuttle, so that a rendezvous could be accomplished. The Ariane upper stage is   not capable of doing this. Also, some kind of stabilization would have been   needed to avoid tumbeling, which would make any attempt to catch it futile.   Therefore a spacecraft and not only a "metal box" is needed.

Second,   the STS-107 mission did not carry the CANDARM, so the container could not be   grappled by it. The mssing CANADARM could also not provide a platform for the   Astronauts to grapple the container by hand.

Even if it were possible,   to deliver such a make-shift-cargo-craft, it would not have been able to   replenish the orbiter consumables like the H2/O2 needed for the fuel   cells.


Gunter


  
2012/4/25 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>
  
    
    
Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload --     a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia'     via EVA.
    
      
      
----- Original Message ----- 
      
From: Anatoly Zak 
      
To: Untitled       
      
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44       PM
      
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon       "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?
      


      
      
Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine       Progress ship repurposed to carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but       obviously, there was no time to prepare such a mission, especially when       Columbia was not configured to dock.

Anatoly Zak
Creator &       Publisher
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On 4/23/12       6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>       wrote:

      
Unfortunately this scenario was completely         impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on         an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


2012/4/23 James E         Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>
        
.... a middle course would be launching life-extension           supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the           next launch better.
 
Anything wouyld have been better than doing           nothing.


        
        _______________________________________________
FPSPACE         mailing list
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 26 06:26:17 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:26:17 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: [Launch Alert] High Altitude Balloon Flight Scheduled
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS2D8AA15DDD317650B06489C240@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Launch Alert
Sent: 4/26/2012 3:37:25 AM
To: Launch Alert
Subject: [Launch Alert] High Altitude Balloon Flight Scheduled

                             LAUNCH ALERT

                              Brian Webb
                     Ventura County, California
                  launch-alert-editor at earthlink.net
                        www.spacearchive.info<http://www.spacearchive.info>

                               2012 April 25 (Wednesday) 20:28 PDT
----------------------------------------------------------------------

                HIGH ALTITUDE BALLOON FLIGHT SCHEDULED
     Reprinted with permission from Arizona Near Space Research
                           www.ansr.org/<http://www.ansr.org/>

Arizona Near Space Research (ANSR) is pleased to announce the flight
of ANSR-68. This high altitude balloon flight will take place on
Saturday, April 28, 2012 at 9:00 A.M. The launch site will be the
University of Arizona Maricopa Agricultural Center, near Maricopa, AZ
(33 deg 04.42 min, 111 deg 58.97 min). The final launch site choice
will depend on the predicted winds aloft. Watch for additional
announcements prior to launch day.

The balloon will be a 3000-gram weather balloon, filled with helium.
The expected burst altitude will be 90,000 feet or more. The flight is
anticipated to last about 2.5 hours from launch to touchdown.

The balloon will carry ten student-built payload packages containing a
variety of scientific apparatus as well as digital cameras to
photo-document the flight. This flight is part of the NAU and Arizona
Space Grant "Changes in Altitude" program. This project involves six
elementary, Middle and High Schools from across Arizona. We thank NAU
and AZ Space Grant for helping us fulfill our goal of "Promoting
Science and Education through Amateur Radio and High Altitude
Balloons."

APRS Beacons will transmit position information as follows: KA7NSR-11
and KA7NSR-12 both on 445.950 MHz, KA7NSR-13 on 144.34 MHZ

The ANSR Cross-Band Repeater will operate with an input frequency of
145.56 MHz with a 162.2 Hz tone, and an output of 445.525 MHz. While
contacts (especially DX) are welcome, please give priority to chase
team members. It is planned to place the repeater on IRLP node 9256.

The Sunday prediction for the flight of ANSR-68 is for a track of 56.3
miles on a bearing of 101?, or 29 miles NE of Picacho Peak and 23
miles ESE of Florence. This prediction is based on the model at
www.habhub.org<http://www.habhub.org> and is 8 miles longer than the previous prediction. A
prediction using Balloon Prediction 0.9.1.2 lands 7 miles south of
Habhub.

The Jetstream is forecast to be way to the north with just a mild
southeasterly flow over Arizona. High temperatures are predicted to be
near 90?F. No precipitation is forecast.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2012, Brian Webb. All rights reserved. No portion of this
newsletter may be used without identifying Launch Alert as the
source and providing a functioning hyperlink or text that point to
http://www.spacearchive.info/newsletter.htm.


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From kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za  Thu Apr 26 06:47:23 2012
From: kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za (Keith Gottschalk)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:47:23 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] could the Columbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
 <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4F9943DB020000A60001CD2A@uwc.ac.za>

Dear Julie,
 
   your thorough, comprehensive reasoning and facts below clinch your arguments.
 
   All these "what if" proposals are still good. They can all be thought through before our next disaster happens, regardless of  whether our next disaster happens on Soyuz, Dragon, CST 200, Orion, Heavenly Vessel, or Skylon. So some extra techniques will be available the inevitable next time.
 
      I recall that another JimO proposal at the time was that Cape Canaveral should keep on standby a Minuteman with an emergency supplies payload that could be launched immediately its interception trajectory could be computed.  Your email below brings out other points. Sooner or later, it will be wise to develop, and then keep on standby, a payload that has grapple features, & some sort of manipulator arm.  Plus your simple - but vital - point that any such rescue payload must have its contents secured with a net, so that after opening they do not spring out and get lost in space.
 
    An entirely different possibility is that some years ago JimO forwarded to this forum a short news item about space skydiving. That some company was developing a flexible thermal blanket that aastronauts could wrap around themselves & survive a reentry plunge through the atmosphere.  My memory (which can be faulty) was that this email from JimO ended with a cheery "watch this space!" sentence. Alas, we've never heard anything further about R&D on this flexible survival blanket.
 
yours, Keith.


>>> On 2012/04/25 at 09:12 PM, in message <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG at elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, Julie Miller <juliermiller at earthlink.net> wrote:

Every single scenario I've seen which claims that Columbia could have 
been saved assumes several things -

Either -

A change to the laws of physics (having Columbia rendezvous with the 
space station or launching anything from Bakinour)

or -

Too much knowledge which didn't exist at the time (anything which 
requires hindsight or any information unavailable to the mission 
control teams during the mission or finding out information before it 
was actually available)

Equipment aboard Columbia which didn't exist (Columbia had no EVA 
compatible cameras - video or digital, no robot arm, and only had 
LiHO canisters, etc.)

Almost infinite resources on the ground (the capability to ask, 
receive permission, and gain access to launch vehicles in other 
countries, prepare ascent profiles in less than a week, some kind of 
canister which would fit on that rocket, etc.)

and

A team on the ground which never (or at least almost never) makes any 
mistakes and always selects the correct choices while preparing for 
the rescue attempt.

If you do come up with a scenario where this super-intelligent never 
makes mistakes team can save Columbia, then you've got to ask 
yourself why didn't the same people have those abilities in October 
2002 at the STS-113 flight readiness review when the STS-112 falling 
bipod issue was addressed and effectively ignored? That's the point 
where the Columbia "rescue" scenario should have been performed - 
ground the fleet until a fix is in place, just as was done for the 
flowliners earlier that year.

Discussing scenarios for saving Columbia's crews is like discussing 
how all of the passengers on the Titanic could have been saved, or 
saving everybody in the second World Trade Center tower after the 
first one was hit, or any other historical scenario. It's always 
easier to say why didn't they do things differently after the fact.

Borrowing an Ariane rocket to launch supplies to extend Columbia's 
stay in space requires many assumptions - a new launch trajectory 
which had never been flown, more maneuvering and engine restarts of 
the Ariane upper stage than has ever been done, a non-existent cargo 
canister (to say nothing about the shipping and customs problems to 
get the cargo to French Guiana), no rendezvous aids, some way of at 
least *partially* stabilizing that container once it's within place 
where it can be reached from an outstretched arm in a spacesuit, some 
way of getting that container temporarily attached to the shuttle (I 
suppose an EVA tether would do, even though the container would 
probably bounce back and forth and eventually damage the tunnel), a 
way of avoiding the jack-in-the-box effect when opening up the 
container to take the stuff into the airlock (unless you're assuming 
that you can squeeze everything into a container small enough to fit 
into the airlock), and probably a bunch of other things.

Remember that the repair/rescue scenarios which NASA came up with 
under the CAIB's orders starts with the assumption that there's 
ABSOLUTE FIRM EVIDENCE 5 days after launch that Columbia is doomed 
and will not survive reentry. Only with that hard axiom in place do 
you make the decision to cancel all crew activity, including the 
experiments the crew was performing, kill the rats (two extra LiHO 
canisters), and go into minimum power mode. And even that assumes 
that you've got no major issues while preparing Atlantis for a rescue 
mission AND that you're willing to launch Atlantis with the absolute 
knowledge that on two of the previous three launches foam fell off 
the bipod (STS-112 and STS-107) and caused damage to flight hardware 
in BOTH instances and you don't know whether or not it fell off on 
the third (STS-113) because it was a night launch. And even then, 
that rescue scenario was devised after weeks of work and the 
knowledge that the Columbia accident had occurred (hindsight).

They COULD NOT have had hard evidence that early - there just wasn't 
enough information that early. The fact that the foam hit wasn't even 
known until the day after launch when the film was examined.

Every single day STS-107 was in space the crew was busy performing 
their experiments, including extremely heavy exercise for the 
European ARMS experiment. That consumes a LOT of LiHO cans. Only 
after the Mission Evaluation Team is concerned enough that there 
*might* be a chance that a rescue would be needed would it be 
justifiable to tell the crew to stop doing experiments and power down 
everything until Mission Control can determine whether or not the 
wing is safe, if an emergency spacewalk might be needed, or whatever 
else might be necessary. If that happens after about half way into 
the mission they've already consumed enough LiHO cans that there 
wouldn't be enough time to fly up emergency supplies.

I don't recall how many LiHO cans were onboard or how many extra 
weather wave-off days were available to the crew. I read that there 
was no consideration to extending the mission for science because the 
Biotube payload wanted to come back as quickly as possible.

If six members of the crew decide to sacrifice themselves and take 
the mythical suicide pills which don't exist then the remaining 
person would have enough supplies to last much longer. But - right or 
wrong - Mission Control considers the crew to be "one unit" when 
considering rescue scenarios, plans are only devised where everybody 
can be saved.

A plausible rescue which doesn't violate the laws of physics is not 
impossible - I'll agree with that. But impossible and could actually 
have been performed in the real world within the actual absolute 
constraints - I don't think so. (IMHO of course).

Of course for many of the media (not all) it's much more 
exciting/newsworthy/interesting to talk about possible rescue 
scenarios than the hard facts and real world limitations. (IMHO of course).

_______________________________________________
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FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Fri Apr 27 11:49:57 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:49:57 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] What we learned from North Korea's rocket no-show
Message-ID: <249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24@ownerfbf08f40c>

What we learned from North Korea's rocket no-show 
Lessons drawn from what we saw, and didn't see, during unprecedented press tour
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47204491/ns/technology_and_science-space/ 
By James Oberg , NBC News space analyst  // April 27/ 08:50 EDT

Looking back on what we were shown - and what was not shown - during our unprecedented press tour of North Korea's space facilities, I realize that both these aspects of reality had lessons for us. The very absence of some expected features of the trip strongly indicated the presence of important features of North Korea. 

That sounds bizarre - how can you see something by not seeing something? But it's why I was along on the trip. My designation, as shown on my identification tag, was "NBC space consultant," and that set me apart. It wasn't the first time.

When I had made my first commercial inspection trip to Russia's Baikonur Cosmodrome in the mid-1990s, my client had a strange request. His team was considering renting a Russian rocket to launch one of their communications satellites from that spaceport in Kazakhstan.

"Our engineers will evaluate what the Russians are telling us and showing us," he told me. "Your job will be to find out what they're not telling or showing us."

That was actually easier than it sounded. Because of the tightly interlaced themes of "rocket science," revelations in one area had implications in other areas. A description of one capability or requirement often implied the existence of specific support technologies that did not need to be identified explicitly. Gaps in descriptions - deliberate or accidental - were usually betrayed by those missing links.

That was a successful inspection trip, and my client chose to go with the Russian launch offer. Based on the assessments of their own team and the gaps that my nosing around filled in, the project worked out fine, and the satellite was later launched without incident.

That approach worked well in North Korea, too, as our NBC team was shown and told a lot about their space satellite plans - and just as obviously, not shown and told a lot.  But disclosure of some things often betrayed attempts to hide other things.

.What we did see made headlines, and deservedly so. We were the first foreigners ever to visit any of the North Korean launch bases - for us, the new base at Sohae, in far northwestern North Korea.  We were the first to be shown, up close, a real rocket and what probably turned out to be a real (if unusual) satellite. And we were the first visitors to their satellite control center, northeast of Pyongyang.  

Shows, secrets and make-believe 
But before reviewing the on-scene space facilities, I want to describe another escorted "show" put on by our hosts, because it may help explain the space visits more clearly.

This happened on our last day in North Korea, after the anniversary parade. Our team had requested scenes of everyday life, so our escort got us a minivan for just our crew, and off we went.

Parks and monuments were easy enough to locate, but our central request was for an "ordinary store" with "ordinary shoppers." As we drove through Pyongyang, we spotted neighborhoods of interest. But each one was waved off with excuses about parking, or one-way traffic, or other superficially plausible reasons. 

Finally, near the copy of France's Arc de Triomphe, there was an opportunity, and we pulled over. We hustled into a very impressive building with a very impressive general store, and taped the desired scenes.

Hearing that there was an art store on the second floor, we detoured on the way back to the minivan and went shopping. Some of the material was in fact very attractive, and we made a number of purchases, discussing them over a snack at a restaurant on the first floor.

But we had stayed in the shopping center far longer than we had intended - or, as it turned out, than our escort had intended. Heading back upstairs to complete some art purchases, we were startled to cross paths with another group entering the building: other journalists from our hotel, also being shown a "typical" North Korean shopping scene. We laughed about the coincidence, and after completing our purchases laughed again on the way downstairs when a third group of guests from our hotel showed up.

It was no coincidence at all, obviously.

Watching from outside while the minivan was brought up, I saw the pedestrian traffic patterns that explained it. Off down the side street was a military checkpoint, apparently a compound for families of high-ranking officers. The people coming into and out of the shops were coming and going to that compound. Behind me, along the public street, people walked past on their own errands - and I didn't see any of them stop to enter the shops we had been shown. 

In this case, the set-up was obvious, even if revealed only by accident. What we had asked to see - a typical store with typical shoppers in Pyongyang - was never delivered. Instead, we were manipulated into "coming across" a seemingly random store that was actually exactly the one our handler had been aiming for all along, in a longstanding plan to fool us.

We were shown everything except the only thing we had been looking for. And the space tours, perhaps, had been no different.

Face-to-face false promises 
It had been at the main satellite control center that a face-to-face confrontation between me and the center's director turned the spotlight on the first big thing we had not been shown at the launch base two days earlier.

.As the only "rocket scientist" in the press group, I was treated with great respect. So I was hustled into the viewing gallery ahead of everyone else and seated next to the center director. 

He proceeded to give a speech about the peaceful intent of the launch and how our visit had verified this to the world. Before we could get into an argument over that, he made fun of foreign doubters and said that to prove the satellite we'd seen at the launch base was really going into space, he would have his team rig a seat - with parachute - for a skeptical journalist to ride into space next to the satellite, and return to testify as to what he'd seen. 

In the face of several still-skeptical questions from other news teams, he repeated his offer in several variations. He was highly impressed with the humor of his idea. This was going nowhere.

"I'll go," I interjected into the dispute. "But we don't need that to prove the claim. All we really need are photographs of the satellite being installed."

No problem, he replied. "We will give you such photographs," was his answer through the interpreter.

That wasn't good enough for me. Fortunately one of the hundred or so Korean words I'd memorized for the trip popped into my mind. Leaning forward and looking him in the eye, I simply said "Eon-je?" His eyes widened.

The interpreter stammered at the linguistic flow reversal. But he quickly recovered and said, "When?"

He brushed the question aside - "Soon!" - and went on to another subject. I left him my hotel room number, for any photographs. 

In the end, of course, the world never did get to see those promised photographs. By now, weeks later, it would be too late. There's been plenty of time to stage them or otherwise fake them. The window of opportunity for proving the central point of the entire foreign inspection - that the rocket was carrying a small science payload, and only that - had closed soon after the false promise was made.

We never did get proof of what really was under that nose cone atop the rocket. This was the core of the North Korean claim - that the presence of a "peaceful satellite" made the launch "peaceful." Although there were multiple ways they could have easily proved what the actual contents were, and although they repeatedly promised they would do so, in the end they never provided any such proof. 

We had been shown everything around the one thing we had expected to be shown - but not that one thing itself. As with the special store, perhaps they expected us to see what we had wanted, even when they switched it out for something entirely different.

The biggest no-show 

Friday, April 13, dawned foggy, but the sky soon cleared. It was the second day of the announced four-day-long launch window. We gathered in the press room at the Yang Gak Do hotel, and our escorts described the cultural events we would soon be loading onto buses for. The white screen that had been set up in the front of the room, where we expected to see the launch live, remained unlit.

Then, shortly after 8 a.m., telephone calls and emails began arriving from colleagues outside the country. The rocket had already been launched, we learned. Within minutes we got further word, relayed from South Korea and Japan, that it had failed.

Not watching it in real time was a bummer, to be sure. That had been an explicit promise, to us and to the world. And in terms of insight into the event, it was a major disappointment.

That's because our news team had privately worked out a plan to try to observe the rocket in the sky during its ascent - from where we were, in Pyongyang. The rocket was going to pass about 60 miles (100 kilometers) west of us, more than halfway up the sky. This was based on my initial back-of-the-envelope estimates, supplemented by detailed calculations emailed to me from experts in the U.S. 

While the rocket flame wasn't expected to be super bright, I thought we'd have a good chance of detecting the ascent visually, and seeing the second-stage separation. I'd seen a few medium-sized rockets of similar type over the years at that range, and had brought my binoculars to help spot this one.

It was a challenge to devise a plan to get outside quickly once launch was seen on the front screen. One door that would be critical was usually kept locked. Other doors in the hotel were just too far away. 

We also discussed the issue with our escorts, that we wanted to go outside as soon as launch occurred. That may have been a mistake. But had we caught them by surprise by running for the door at liftoff, their reaction might well have been severe.

The original explicit promise for the observation visit was to watch the launch live. Exactly where wasn't specified, but real-time witnessing was specifically spelled out. 

But for some reason, a high official decided to renege on that promise. Whether our known plans for direct non-censorable observations had anything to do with it or not, we were never given the chance to make those observations, because we weren't told in time that the launch had occurred.

Had we been outside and filming, I have no doubt we would have seen and recorded the explosion that destroyed the rocket. If other news crews had seen us running for the door and followed us, there would have been multiple tapes. Diagnosing the cause of the disaster, and locating the rocket's debris, would have been made easier.

But it was not to be. A deliberate North Korean strategy of not showing us something that they had originally promised to show us eliminated that possibility.

For the rest of the trip, it was a classic "Rocket? What rocket?" routine. All the officials acted as if there never had been a rocket, and we were here only to celebrate the Kim Il Sung centennial. No explanation - or even an explanation for the lack of an explanation - was ever offered. No official ever mentioned 'rockets' to us again.

What does 'not telling' tell us? 

The first lesson from these two enormously disappointing cover-ups is that it wasn't real transparency, but only the illusion of transparency, that most likely had always been the activity's intent. Cynics warned that this would be the case from the start.

In secondary areas of insight - which exact building does which function at the launch site - we learned a lot. But in the central focus of the show-and-tell - what was actually aboard the rocket - we were told, but we weren't shown.

The second lesson is more uplifting. We really did learn a lot, including things the North Koreans probably didn't expect us to notice. The hitherto-top-secret location of the satellite control center is one example. The much-more-massive launch gantry at the new launch pad is another. Other new insights are still being evaluated.

Another insight is that they clearly were totally blindsided by the failure. There was no "Plan B," involving a credible and candid reaction of the kind that the world press had come to expect. This apparently sincere astonishment is completely consistent with the leadership styles I had seen - and remarked on - earlier, an unwavering view that ferocious devotion to the Great Leader would guarantee success for all efforts. That had been an early warning sign of impending disaster that I had passed on to my news team. 

In hindsight, not showing the launch live probably didn't involve damage-limitation calculations at all. It seems they had never installed the communications equipment at the hotel that could have shown the launch live. It had been an empty promise all along.

So it remains true that in rocket science, at least, plans to control outsiders' insight by deliberately partial disclosure usually fail. And even when we know in advance that such a strategy seeks to exploit our presence, it's worth going anyway, if we prepare adequately to see what is unseen and hear what is untold. I'm ready to pack my bags again for anywhere else where they want to play that game.

Comments
http://technology-science.newsvine.com/_news/2012/04/27/11429651-what-we-learned-from-north-koreas-rocket-no-show#comments 
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From agzak at optonline.net  Fri Apr 27 17:37:17 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:37:17 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>

I knew there would be a mob of 50,000 photographers with bigger, better
cameras than mine, but I still decided to make a pilgrimage:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/manned/reusable/shuttle/ent
erprise/last_flight/index.htm

It is what you do with it that counts :)


Anatoly Zak
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From thomsona at flash.net  Fri Apr 27 17:47:55 2012
From: thomsona at flash.net (Allen Thomson)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:47:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <1335563275.7740.YahooMailRC@web180915.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


???????!

What camera/lens/etc. were you using?




________________________________
From: Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net>
To: Untitled <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Sent: Fri, April 27, 2012 4:37:37 PM
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle

Good bye Shuttle I knew there would be a mob of 50,000 photographers with 
bigger, better cameras than mine, but I still decided to make a pilgrimage:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/manned/reusable/shuttle/enterprise/last_flight/index.htm


It is what you do with it that counts :)
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From rsvp321 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 27 17:49:08 2012
From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:49:08 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24@ownerfbf08f40c>,
 <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <BAY153-W465A0947767CB2160A10CAF8250@phx.gbl>


Excellent shots! I can almost hear the engines! Thanks for sharing, Anatoly. Pete
 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:37:17 -0400
From: agzak at optonline.net
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle



Good bye Shuttle


I knew there would be a mob of 50,000 photographers with bigger, better cameras than mine, but I still decided to make a pilgrimage:



http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/manned/reusable/shuttle/enterprise/last_flight/index.htm



It is what you do with it that counts :)





Anatoly Zak




_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From agzak at optonline.net  Fri Apr 27 18:51:41 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:51:41 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <CA+m86YBLPx7+Zfe6DNpRdu=Sv_Cnu6bUdaniGByZXjJpBLW=nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBC09B3D.1879E%agzak@optonline.net>

We should all thank her pilots, who made it really easy and spectacular for
everybody! Given the size of the bird and the height of buildings in New
York, they took it really low.

Anatoly Zak



On 4/27/12 5:49 PM, "Christopher Gorski" <cpgorski at gmail.com> wrote:

> "Bigger, better cameras"?? Goodness gracious, I can read the tail numbers on
> 905!
> ?
> Fantastic!? Thanks for sending these!
> ?
> --Christopher Gorski
> ?
> 
> ?
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net> wrote:
>> I knew there would be a mob of 50,000 photographers with bigger, better
>> cameras than mine, but I still decided to make a pilgrimage:
>> 
>> http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/manned/reusable/shuttle/ente
>> rprise/last_flight/index.htm
>> 
>> It is what you do with it that counts :)
>> 
>> 
>> Anatoly Zak 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> FPSPACE mailing list
>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>> 
>> 
>> 

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From dpayson at mail.ru  Sat Apr 28 01:55:07 2012
From: dpayson at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?RG1pdHJ5IFBheXNvbg==?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:55:07 +0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] =?utf-8?q?Roscosmos_draft_Strategy-2003_is_now_online?=
In-Reply-To: <CBC09B3D.1879Eagzak@optonline.net>
References: <CA+m86YBLPx7+Zfe6DNpRdu=Sv_Cnu6bUdaniGByZXjJpBLW=nA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CBC09B3D.1879Eagzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <E1SO0cd-00030A-Uv.dpayson-mail-ru@f190.mail.ru>

Hello:

For those interested, Roscosmos has placed online its draft Strategy-2030 (Russian version only);

http://www.roscosmos.ru/main.php?id=402

It is kind of unprecedented move from our space agency, so I think you might be interested.

Dmitry Payson
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From dpayson at mail.ru  Sat Apr 28 01:58:11 2012
From: dpayson at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?RG1pdHJ5IFBheXNvbg==?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:58:11 +0400
Subject: [FPSPACE]
 =?utf-8?q?Roscosmos_draft_Strategy-2003_is_now_online_-?=
 =?utf-8?q?_ERRATA=3A_2030?=
In-Reply-To: <E1SO0cd-00030A-Uv.dpayson-mail-ru@f190.mail.ru>
References: <CA+m86YBLPx7+Zfe6DNpRdu=Sv_Cnu6bUdaniGByZXjJpBLW=nA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CBC09B3D.1879Eagzak@optonline.net>
 <E1SO0cd-00030A-Uv.dpayson-mail-ru@f190.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <E1SO0fb-0001yI-QH.dpayson-mail-ru@f248.mail.ru>

Oops. Of course Strategy-2030


Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:55:07 +0400 ?? Dmitry Payson <dpayson at mail.ru>:
Hello:

For those interested, Roscosmos has placed online its draft Strategy-2030 (Russian version only);

http://www.roscosmos.ru/main.php?id=402

It is kind of unprecedented move from our space agency, so I think you might be interested.

Dmitry Payson


-- 

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From kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za  Sat Apr 28 08:21:55 2012
From: kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za (Keith Gottschalk)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:21:55 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Reflections on What we learned from North Korea's rocket
 no-show
In-Reply-To: <249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24@ownerfbf08f40c>
References: <249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <4F9BFD03020000A60001CE08@uwc.ac.za>

JimO,
 
    thanks, much appreciated! A few quick reflections on the
censorship, showcasing, etc.
 
1) HUGE INCOORDINATION BETWEEN DPRK GOVT. DEPARTMENTS.
 
A journalist friend was amongst the first allowed in to the DPRK about
a quarter-century ago, specifically as a journalist, invited by their
Info. Dept, to show how nice they are.
But other govt. depts banned visas to any foreign journalist as
"spies". So his minder had to negotiate with him that he could only take
photos when officials from other govt. depts were not around.
 
    Similarly, one dept. of the DPRK was flattered when a group of
Scottish retired railwaymen came decades ago for that specifically
British working-class hobby of train spotting. This was heralded by the
relevant govt. dept as working class-to working class solidarity
tourism. The entire purpose of their trip was of course to stand on top
of road bridges going over railway lines. Each time steam engines
approached, they'd all whip out their notebooks to record 2-6-2 or
whatever (2 front wheels-six driving wheels-2 bogie wheels), plus the
registration no on the side of the steam engine, & any other fun
details.
 
    But each time they did, their Korean guides were panic-stricken at
what they could only regard as "industrial espionage". They kept
repeatedly whispering to my friend "what are they doing?" & had to be
repeatedly re-assured that this was their hobby, exactly what they did
at home on Scottish railways.
 
  So when an official of one govt. dept says you will be allowed to see
X, he might be lying - or he might simply find his boss overruled by the
boss of another dept.
 
2) "an unwavering view that ferocious devotion to the Great Leader
would guarantee success for all efforts."
 
   Please remember that they HAVE to do this in public, to avoid being
demoted, fired, or detained on suspicion of counter-revolutionary
sympathies. Only if one Korean is alone with you, & he really trusts
you, & he's checked the room for bugs, dare he whisper his secret
contrary views to you.  When the first Chinese academics visited my
university in the early 1990s, it was the same. Only in recent years are
Chinese academics abroad much more relaxed, though guarded & watch their
tongues.
 
3) METAL MOCK-UPS & OTHER POTEMKIN VILLAGES 
 
   For the PRC's first three decades, 1949-79, all western visitors
were taken to only the six same collective farms in a country of one
billion people! They were probably also defensive about the fact that
while people like me from 3rd world countries find it "normal" to have
shantytowns, beggars at every traffic lights and car park, etc, whereas
westerners would take this as proof of backwardness, compared to what
they're used to.
 
     One western group was taken off see how beneficial PRC rule was
towards pastoralist clans in Sinkiang & Inner Mongolia. They were
entertained royally in tents while joyful pastoralists did folk dances
etc. The more perceptive amongst them felt that something was wrong, but
couldn't but their finger on it.
 
    After their third such visit to a tented village, it dawned on
them. In each village they were shown, there were only handsome young
men & beautiful women. There were no elderly persons, & no young
children. It turned out the westerners were being entertained by the
professional folk dancing ensembles of the state theatre. When one of
the visitors discreetly pulled up a corner of the groundsheet in one of
these tents, he saw fresh green grass underneath. In short, it was not a
real peasant's homestead tent, but had just been rigged up for their
visit.  The relevance of this is that the DPRK leadership will be more
familiar with the PRC than other countries.
 
   Yesterday South African newspapers published a German analysts'
report that the DPRK biggest new missiles on public parade this weekend
were metal mockups with a skin too thin to have structural strength for
fueling or flight. No doubt some FPSPACERs have already seen the full
report. This was also done by Nasser in Egypt in the early 1960s - but
the 1967 war proved that not one such rocket was every built or fired.
 
   The interesting bit will be to watch to see how long glasnost takes
to come to north Korea. Years or decades? Will the DPRK try to have one
satellite launch per year from now on? & what will JimO & westerners be
shown on each annual visit? When the DPRK make such decisions, one
factor will be the relative weight they place on making propaganda to
show how menacing their missile is, versus showcasing how advanced their
hi-tech prestige is.
 
- Keith


>>> On 2012/04/27 at 05:49 PM, in message
<249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24 at ownerfbf08f40c>, "James E Oberg"
<jameseoberg at comcast.net> wrote:

What we learned from North Korea's rocket no-show 
Lessons drawn from what we saw, and didn't see, during unprecedented
press tour
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47204491/ns/technology_and_science-space/ 
By James Oberg , NBC News space analyst  // April 27/ 08:50 EDT
 
Looking back on what we were shown ? and what was not shown ? during
our unprecedented press tour of North Korea's space facilities, I
realize that both these aspects of reality had lessons for us. The very
absence of some expected features of the trip strongly indicated the
presence of important features of North Korea. 
 
That sounds bizarre ? how can you see something by not seeing
something? But it?s why I was along on the trip. My designation, as
shown on my identification tag, was "NBC space consultant," and that set
me apart. It wasn?t the first time.
 
When I had made my first commercial inspection trip to Russia?s
Baikonur Cosmodrome in the mid-1990s, my client had a strange request.
His team was considering renting a Russian rocket to launch one of their
communications satellites from that spaceport in Kazakhstan.
 
"Our engineers will evaluate what the Russians are telling us and
showing us," he told me. "Your job will be to find out what they?re not
telling or showing us."
 
That was actually easier than it sounded. Because of the tightly
interlaced themes of "rocket science," revelations in one area had
implications in other areas. A description of one capability or
requirement often implied the existence of specific support technologies
that did not need to be identified explicitly. Gaps in descriptions ?
deliberate or accidental ? were usually betrayed by those missing
links.
 
That was a successful inspection trip, and my client chose to go with
the Russian launch offer. Based on the assessments of their own team and
the gaps that my nosing around filled in, the project worked out fine,
and the satellite was later launched without incident.
 
That approach worked well in North Korea, too, as our NBC team was
shown and told a lot about their space satellite plans ? and just as
obviously, not shown and told a lot.  But disclosure of some things
often betrayed attempts to hide other things.
 
.What we did see made headlines, and deservedly so. We were the first
foreigners ever to visit any of the North Korean launch bases ? for us,
the new base at Sohae, in far northwestern North Korea.  We were the
first to be shown, up close, a real rocket and what probably turned out
to be a real (if unusual) satellite. And we were the first visitors to
their satellite control center, northeast of Pyongyang.  
 
Shows, secrets and make-believe 
But before reviewing the on-scene space facilities, I want to describe
another escorted "show" put on by our hosts, because it may help explain
the space visits more clearly.
 
This happened on our last day in North Korea, after the anniversary
parade. Our team had requested scenes of everyday life, so our escort
got us a minivan for just our crew, and off we went.
 
Parks and monuments were easy enough to locate, but our central request
was for an "ordinary store" with "ordinary shoppers." As we drove
through Pyongyang, we spotted neighborhoods of interest. But each one
was waved off with excuses about parking, or one-way traffic, or other
superficially plausible reasons. 
 
Finally, near the copy of France?s Arc de Triomphe, there was an
opportunity, and we pulled over. We hustled into a very impressive
building with a very impressive general store, and taped the desired
scenes.
 
Hearing that there was an art store on the second floor, we detoured on
the way back to the minivan and went shopping. Some of the material was
in fact very attractive, and we made a number of purchases, discussing
them over a snack at a restaurant on the first floor.
 
But we had stayed in the shopping center far longer than we had
intended ? or, as it turned out, than our escort had intended. Heading
back upstairs to complete some art purchases, we were startled to cross
paths with another group entering the building: other journalists from
our hotel, also being shown a "typical" North Korean shopping scene. We
laughed about the coincidence, and after completing our purchases
laughed again on the way downstairs when a third group of guests from
our hotel showed up.
 
It was no coincidence at all, obviously.
 
Watching from outside while the minivan was brought up, I saw the
pedestrian traffic patterns that explained it. Off down the side street
was a military checkpoint, apparently a compound for families of
high-ranking officers. The people coming into and out of the shops were
coming and going to that compound. Behind me, along the public street,
people walked past on their own errands ? and I didn?t see any of them
stop to enter the shops we had been shown. 
 
In this case, the set-up was obvious, even if revealed only by
accident. What we had asked to see ? a typical store with typical
shoppers in Pyongyang ? was never delivered. Instead, we were
manipulated into "coming across" a seemingly random store that was
actually exactly the one our handler had been aiming for all along, in a
longstanding plan to fool us.
 
We were shown everything except the only thing we had been looking for.
And the space tours, perhaps, had been no different.
 
Face-to-face false promises 
It had been at the main satellite control center that a face-to-face
confrontation between me and the center?s director turned the spotlight
on the first big thing we had not been shown at the launch base two days
earlier.
 
.As the only "rocket scientist" in the press group, I was treated with
great respect. So I was hustled into the viewing gallery ahead of
everyone else and seated next to the center director. 
 
He proceeded to give a speech about the peaceful intent of the launch
and how our visit had verified this to the world. Before we could get
into an argument over that, he made fun of foreign doubters and said
that to prove the satellite we?d seen at the launch base was really
going into space, he would have his team rig a seat ? with parachute ?
for a skeptical journalist to ride into space next to the satellite, and
return to testify as to what he?d seen. 
 
In the face of several still-skeptical questions from other news teams,
he repeated his offer in several variations. He was highly impressed
with the humor of his idea. This was going nowhere.
 
"I?ll go," I interjected into the dispute. "But we don?t need that to
prove the claim. All we really need are photographs of the satellite
being installed."
 
No problem, he replied. "We will give you such photographs," was his
answer through the interpreter.
 
That wasn?t good enough for me. Fortunately one of the hundred or so
Korean words I?d memorized for the trip popped into my mind. Leaning
forward and looking him in the eye, I simply said "Eon-je?" His eyes
widened.
 
The interpreter stammered at the linguistic flow reversal. But he
quickly recovered and said, "When?"
 
He brushed the question aside ? "Soon!" ? and went on to another
subject. I left him my hotel room number, for any photographs. 
 
In the end, of course, the world never did get to see those promised
photographs. By now, weeks later, it would be too late. There?s been
plenty of time to stage them or otherwise fake them. The window of
opportunity for proving the central point of the entire foreign
inspection ? that the rocket was carrying a small science payload, and
only that ? had closed soon after the false promise was made.
 
We never did get proof of what really was under that nose cone atop the
rocket. This was the core of the North Korean claim ? that the presence
of a "peaceful satellite" made the launch "peaceful." Although there
were multiple ways they could have easily proved what the actual
contents were, and although they repeatedly promised they would do so,
in the end they never provided any such proof. 
 
We had been shown everything around the one thing we had expected to be
shown ? but not that one thing itself. As with the special store,
perhaps they expected us to see what we had wanted, even when they
switched it out for something entirely different.
 
The biggest no-show 
 
Friday, April 13, dawned foggy, but the sky soon cleared. It was the
second day of the announced four-day-long launch window. We gathered in
the press room at the Yang Gak Do hotel, and our escorts described the
cultural events we would soon be loading onto buses for. The white
screen that had been set up in the front of the room, where we expected
to see the launch live, remained unlit.
 
Then, shortly after 8 a.m., telephone calls and emails began arriving
from colleagues outside the country. The rocket had already been
launched, we learned. Within minutes we got further word, relayed from
South Korea and Japan, that it had failed.
 
Not watching it in real time was a bummer, to be sure. That had been an
explicit promise, to us and to the world. And in terms of insight into
the event, it was a major disappointment.
 
That?s because our news team had privately worked out a plan to try to
observe the rocket in the sky during its ascent ? from where we were, in
Pyongyang. The rocket was going to pass about 60 miles (100 kilometers)
west of us, more than halfway up the sky. This was based on my initial
back-of-the-envelope estimates, supplemented by detailed calculations
emailed to me from experts in the U.S. 
 
While the rocket flame wasn?t expected to be super bright, I thought
we?d have a good chance of detecting the ascent visually, and seeing
the second-stage separation. I?d seen a few medium-sized rockets of
similar type over the years at that range, and had brought my binoculars
to help spot this one.
 
It was a challenge to devise a plan to get outside quickly once launch
was seen on the front screen. One door that would be critical was
usually kept locked. Other doors in the hotel were just too far away. 
 
We also discussed the issue with our escorts, that we wanted to go
outside as soon as launch occurred. That may have been a mistake. But
had we caught them by surprise by running for the door at liftoff, their
reaction might well have been severe.
 
The original explicit promise for the observation visit was to watch
the launch live. Exactly where wasn?t specified, but real-time
witnessing was specifically spelled out. 
 
But for some reason, a high official decided to renege on that promise.
Whether our known plans for direct non-censorable observations had
anything to do with it or not, we were never given the chance to make
those observations, because we weren't told in time that the launch had
occurred.
 
Had we been outside and filming, I have no doubt we would have seen and
recorded the explosion that destroyed the rocket. If other news crews
had seen us running for the door and followed us, there would have been
multiple tapes. Diagnosing the cause of the disaster, and locating the
rocket?s debris, would have been made easier.
 
But it was not to be. A deliberate North Korean strategy of not showing
us something that they had originally promised to show us eliminated
that possibility.
 
For the rest of the trip, it was a classic "Rocket? What rocket?"
routine. All the officials acted as if there never had been a rocket,
and we were here only to celebrate the Kim Il Sung centennial. No
explanation ? or even an explanation for the lack of an explanation ?
was ever offered. No official ever mentioned ?rockets? to us again.
 
What does 'not telling' tell us? 
 
The first lesson from these two enormously disappointing cover-ups is
that it wasn?t real transparency, but only the illusion of transparency,
that most likely had always been the activity?s intent. Cynics warned
that this would be the case from the start.
 
In secondary areas of insight ? which exact building does which
function at the launch site ? we learned a lot. But in the central focus
of the show-and-tell ? what was actually aboard the rocket ? we were
told, but we weren?t shown.
 
The second lesson is more uplifting. We really did learn a lot,
including things the North Koreans probably didn?t expect us to notice.
The hitherto-top-secret location of the satellite control center is one
example. The much-more-massive launch gantry at the new launch pad is
another. Other new insights are still being evaluated.
 
Another insight is that they clearly were totally blindsided by the
failure. There was no "Plan B," involving a credible and candid reaction
of the kind that the world press had come to expect. This apparently
sincere astonishment is completely consistent with the leadership styles
I had seen ? and remarked on ? earlier, an unwavering view that
ferocious devotion to the Great Leader would guarantee success for all
efforts. That had been an early warning sign of impending disaster that
I had passed on to my news team. 
 
In hindsight, not showing the launch live probably didn?t involve
damage-limitation calculations at all. It seems they had never installed
the communications equipment at the hotel that could have shown the
launch live. It had been an empty promise all along.
 
So it remains true that in rocket science, at least, plans to control
outsiders' insight by deliberately partial disclosure usually fail. And
even when we know in advance that such a strategy seeks to exploit our
presence, it?s worth going anyway, if we prepare adequately to see what
is unseen and hear what is untold. I?m ready to pack my bags again for
anywhere else where they want to play that game.
 
Comments
http://technology-science.newsvine.com/_news/2012/04/27/11429651-what-we-learned-from-north-koreas-rocket-no-show#comments


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From ljk4 at msn.com  Sun Apr 29 23:16:10 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 03:16:10 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] =?iso-8859-15?q?Fwd=3A_NASA=27s_dwindling_budget=3A_Why?=
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Subject: NASA's dwindling budget: Why has America stopped reaching for the stars?

The Starry Messenger<http://StarryMessenger.Net>
The StarrySkies Network Newsletter
http://StarrySkies.com<http://StarrySkies.Com>
http://StarrySkies.net<http://StarrySkies.Net>

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NASA's dwindling budget: Why has America stopped reaching for the stars?<http://starryskies.net/?p=24523>

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What we learned from North Korea's Rocket no-show<http://starryskies.net/?p=24505>

Looking back on what we were shown<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47204491/ns/technology_and_science-space/#.T5rFxNWQlrY> - and what was not shown - during our unprecedented press tour of North Korea's space facilities, I realize that both these aspects of reality had lessons for us. The very absence of some expected features of the trip strongly indicated the presence of important features of North Korea.

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Salford scientists reveal the 'sound of Stonehenge'<http://starryskies.net/?p=24444>

Whatever went on there<http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2012/apr/19/stonehenge-acoustics-archaeology-salford-university-bruno-fazenda>, it would have impressed the ancient Britons. Even if it was only whispering. We are nowhere nearer cracking the mystery of the monument as a result; but who would want to be? Apart from all the mountains of remaindered books of theories, a puzzle solved is never as gripping as a conundrum still under way.

________________________________
Archaeologists Blast Hasty World Heritage Listings<http://starryskies.net/?p=24441>

One of the most significant global committees that you never heard of<http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2012/04/18/archaeologists-blast-hasty-world-heritage-listings/> summoned a couple of hundred experts to the island of Menorca, Spain last week. The meeting involved politics, the remnants of great civilizations, human catastrophes, architectural triumphs, religious works of art and architecture, use of tourism, the rise and fall of empires, and did we say politics?

________________________________
Who Owns the Past?<http://starryskies.net/?p=24439>

The federal government should fix or drop new regulations<http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=who-owns-the-past> that throttle scientific study of America's heritage Thousands of remains could be made inaccessible to researchers. In our view, the new regulations should be repealed or, at least, revised to distinguish different classes of unidentified remains.

________________________________
Ancient manuscript found in Brisbane<http://starryskies.net/?p=24437>

The Queensland Museum has been revealed as an unlikely resting place<http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/ancient-manuscript-found-in-brisbane-20120420-1xc5l.html> for the missing pieces of a rare manuscript from ancient Egypt.
Archaeologists had been searching for the missing fragments of the rare Book of the Dead for 100 years when a visiting Egyptologist stumbled across them while in Brisbane to open a mummy exhibition.

________________________________
Stephen Hawking at 70: still the brightest star in the scientific universe<http://starryskies.net/?p=24433>

As the author of A Brief History of Time<http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jan/01/stephen-hawking-at-70> approaches 70, eminent former students celebrate an awe-inspiring intellect still pushing at the frontiers of physics

________________________________

Original site publishing Earth and Space Science since 1995
http://StarrySkies.Com
http://StarrySkies.Net

________________________________


Copyright 1995-2009 StarrySkies Network. All rights reserved.

This message generated in part with programming by LinuxTech<http://LinuxTech.com/>.
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From BKLong at yandex.ru  Sun Apr  1 01:35:42 2012
From: BKLong at yandex.ru (=?koi8-r?B?4c7E0sXF1yDzxdLHxco=?=)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:35:42 +0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] HVAP
Message-ID: <336101333258542@web147.yandex.ru>

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87087674/?????-??????-???


From davidlrickman at aol.com  Mon Apr  2 02:35:04 2012
From: davidlrickman at aol.com (David L. Rickman)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 02:35:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Looking for Contact Information for George P. Sutton
 "History of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines".
Message-ID: <8CEDEB1DF788F40-1FA4-EC5F@webmail-m074.sysops.aol.com>

FPSpacers,


I am looking for Contact Information for George P. Sutton, author of "History of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines".


Thanks in advance,


David L. Rickman
549 Caribou road
Asheville, NC  28803
USA






Follow my progress as I recreate the Soviet Lunniy Korabl spaceship in 1:5 scale at http://lunniykorabl.blogspot.com
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From dstdba at post4.tele.dk  Mon Apr  2 15:39:31 2012
From: dstdba at post4.tele.dk (Jens Kieffer-Olsen)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 21:39:31 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Details of DPRK satellite
In-Reply-To: <440D05BFCA474D589BC98909B3378F8C@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
References: <112C57780A0943588916C1E5FE753DE0@kb7woxPC>
 <000001cd0d4e$ac926d60$05b74820$@tele.dk>
 <440D05BFCA474D589BC98909B3378F8C@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
Message-ID: <001701cd1108$55d5add0$01810970$@tele.dk>


Sorry for being late to follow-up on your post, Phillip.

Others have already pointed to the fact that UK is not,
strictly speaking, a space-faring nation, since Woomera 
is South Australian, not English or Scottish territory.

That viewpoint is not surprisingly echoed by the North 
Koreans, who don't fail to also make the point that:

"The US space programme was heavily dependent on the 
expertise of Nazi rocket scientist Werner Von Braun.":

http://www.korea-dpr.com/forum/?p=1119

The point I wish to make here, however, is to draw 
a parallel between the North Korean doctrine of self-
reliance - Juche - and Robert Zubrin's vision of 
settlers being self-reliant after landing on Mars, 
'living off the land'.

Zubrinites may have a reputation in certain circles 
of being no less fanatical than followers of the Kim 
dynasty in Pyongyang, but why should self-reliance not 
be considered a virtue?

Receiving cargo from Earth occasionally is bound to 
be NICE, but will not life on Mars be more fulfilling 
for the colonists without a NEED for extra-planetary 
assistance?

--
Jens Kieffer-Olsen
Slagelse, Denmark


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Phillip Clark [mailto:phillipclark at btinternet.com] 
Sendt: 29. marts 2012 07:54
Til: FPSPACE
Emne: Re: [FPSPACE] Details of DPRK satellite

So long as the KSLV-1 uses a Russian-built first stage, I do not believe 
that we can classify South Korea as a "launcher nation".

To me, the parallel is the launch of Australia's WRESAT which used a United 
States Redstone and an Australian upper stage and which was successfully 
launched from Woomera.   No-one has ever claimed that this made Australia a 
"launcher nation".

When South Korea has a wholly South Korean launch vehicle then it can join 
the "club".

Phillip Clark


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jens Kieffer-Olsen" <dstdba at post4.tele.dk>
To: <fpspace at www.friends-partners.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Details of DPRK satellite


>
> That puts into perspective the 2009 article on the
> Korea Space Launch Vehicle-1 and its 100 kg payload
> http://www.physorg.com/news169892750.html :
>
> A successful launch would make South Korea the tenth country
> to put a satellite into orbit using its own rocket.
>
> Seoul has invested 502.5 billion won (419 million dollars) and
> much national pride in the 33-metre (108-foot) rocket, whose
> second stage was built by local engineers.
>
> Seoul also built the 100-kilogram (220-pound) scientific research
> satellite atop the rocket at the Naro Space Centre at Goheung,
> 475 kilometres (300 miles) south of Seoul.
>
> [snip]
>
> Washington, concerned about a possible arms race in Northeast Asia,
> has however sought to restrict South Korea's missile development.
>
> A 2001 accord with the United States bars Seoul from developing
> missiles with a range of more than 300 kilometres (187 miles).
>
> Science ministry officials have denied Seoul is using Russian
> technology because Washington refused to transfer the necessary
> know-how.
>
> --
> Jens Kieffer-Olsen
> Slagelse, Denmark
>
> [FPSPACE] Details of DPRK satellite
> Morris Jones morrisjones at hotmail.com
> Wed Mar 28 20:16:55 EDT 2012
>
>>From the Chosun Ilbo.
> North Korea on Wednesday revealed details of a satellite it says
> it is preparing to launch into space next month.An unnamed official
> was quoted by the official KCNA news agency as saying that the
> satellite, which is to be carried into orbit by a rocket, weighs
> 100 kg and has a lifespan of two years. It is equipped with a camera
> enabling it to send back pictures and other observational data, the
> official claimed.Experts say a proper working satellite would weigh
> 500 kg and have a lifespan of at least five years. A satellite expert
> at a state-run research institute here analyzed the comments and said,
> "A satellite weighing 100 kg would be an experimental satellite
> equivalent to the Uribyeol 2 and 3 we launched in the 1990s, but with
> that claim North Korea has practically admitted that the rocket being
> launched does not aim to put a working satellite into orbit. Such
> a small satellite could be mounted along with the payload of
> a rocket being launched by another country. There is no reason to
> build an expensive launch vehicle for it."He said this shows the
> North "is really only interested in testing the launch vehicle
> rather than putting a satellite into orbit."
>



From miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Apr  3 03:45:37 2012
From: miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk (miriam harriott)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:45:37 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333439137.78126.YahooMailMobile@web171304.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://tuneshackpodcast.com/wp-includes/piecemaker-images/02efpk.html"> http://tuneshackpodcast.com/wp-includes/piecemaker-images/02efpk.html</a>
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr  3 19:12:33 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:12:33 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Journalist Bill Gertz: US is preparing to intervene (by
	shooting down) in NK satellite launch attempt
Message-ID: <75E9A1D276AA4786A08A0E4B466E7AF1@your94e826b122>

The Following news story states an X-band radar has been transported by sea
to the Korean area of operations.

 

http://freebeacon.com/red-alert/

 

Pentagon activates missile defenses for North Korean launch

 

 

By Bill Gertz

 

The Pentagon recently activated its global missile shield in anticipation of
North Korea's launch of a long-range missile, according to defense
officials.

The measures include stepped-up electronic monitoring, deployment of missile
interceptor ships, and activation of radar networks to areas near the Korean
peninsula and western Pacific.

Three interceptor ships near Japan and the Philippines, as well as
U.S.-based interceptors, are ready to shoot down the North Korean missile if
space-, land-, and sea-based sensors determine its flight path is targeted
at the United States or U.S. allies, said officials who spoke on condition
of anonymity.

The Obama administration will regard any launch by North Korea as a
violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions regardless of whether the
North Koreans claim the rocket test is for space launch purposes, the
officials said. The technology and rocketry used for a space launch is
nearly identical to that used with ballistic missiles that carry a warhead,
they said.

Also, because the payload or warhead of the test launch cannot be determined
prior to launch, the Obama administration decided to activate the missile
defense system.

According to U.S. officials, current intelligence assessments indicate the
North Korean missile will be launched from a base called Tongchang-ri,
located on a west coast peninsula north of Pyongyang between April 12 and
April 15.

The missile's first stage could impact in the Yellow Sea near South Korea
and the second stage could land east of the Philippines in the Pacific.

Satellite images published Monday show preparations for the launch are
continuing.

Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. April Cunningham would not say if missile
defenses were activated for the upcoming test.

However, Cunningham said, "North Korea's announcement that it plans to
conduct a long-range missile launch at any time would be in direct violation
of its international obligations."

U.N. Security Council Resolutions 1718 and 1874 "clearly and unequivocally
prohibit North Korea from conducting launches that use ballistic missile
technology," she said.

"Such a missile launch would pose a threat to regional security and would
also be inconsistent with North Korea's recent undertaking to refrain from
long-range missile launches," Cunningham said.

"The U.S. closely monitors threats to international security and has the
capability to respond if and when appropriate."

A U.S. official said the military's large, X-band radar that is based on a
oil-rig-sized floating platform sailed from Honolulu to waters near Korea on
March 26 as part of the activation.

Current U.S. missile defense systems include networks of radar and space
tracking gear, including ground- and sea-based radar, Aegis ships, and
long-range interceptor missiles based in Alaska and California. A total of
30 three-stage interceptors are deployed.

Any decision to shoot down the missile would be made by the president,
officials said.

The missile defense activation was briefly mentioned by Defense Secretary
Leon Panetta on Saturday during a meeting with reporters aboard the Navy
ship USS Peleliu. Asked what military steps were taken to deal with a future
North Korean launch, Panetta said the U.S. has "put whatever assets in place
that we need in order to deal with any contingency."

"We expressed our concern," Panetta said of the upcoming launch. "The
president of the United States made very clear that the North Koreans should
not do this. It is provocative. It's dangerous and it violates the
international law. And so our hope is that they will not do it. But as
always takes place in these kinds of situations, we have to be fully
prepared for any possibility-and we are."

Details of the missile defense deployments are classified. However, defense
officials said the measures include the stationing of three Navy
Aegis-equipped warships around Japan that are equipped with SM-3 missile
interceptors.

The U.S. missile defense deployments are being closely coordinated with
Japan's government and military, which has deployed two Aegis ships armed
with SM-3s, along with Patriot PAC-3 anti-missile batteries around Tokyo.

Japan's concern is that if the missile goes astray or breaks up, it will
target Japanese territory, and the shorter-range defenses will be used to
try and shoot down the debris before impact.

North Korea has announced that it is planning a space launch of a satellite.
But U.S. officials said the missile being readied on a launch pad north of
the capital of Pyongyang appears similar to North Korea's Taepodong-2
intercontinental ballistic missile.

U.S. officials also said that regardless of the configuration, the launch is
likely cover for a missile test since U.N. sanctions prohibit North Korea
from launching missiles.

According to the officials, the initial phases of the U.S. missile defense
activation include stepped-up intelligence gathering by spy satellites and
RC-135 Cobra Ball aircraft based at Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan.

Asked for details, a U.S. official would say only that "We've got what we
need to monitor a possible launch."

Cmdr. Leslie Hull-Ryde, a second Pentagon spokeswoman, declined to provide
details on the North Korean launch preparation but said, "We're monitoring
the situation very closely, along with our [Republic of Korea] counterparts,
to ensure the defense of the ROK."

"Through our combined capabilities, we can sufficiently monitor North
Korea's efforts," she said.

Hull-Ryde declined to discuss military operations, plans or intelligence but
said, "We stand ready to defend U.S. territory, our allies and our national
interests."

The last time missile defenses were activated on the current scale was 2009,
when North Korea conducted a test flight of a Taepodong-2 on April 5.

Prior to that launch, also announced by Pyongyang as a space launch, the
Navy deployed two Aegis ships in the Sea of Japan and one Aegis east of
Japan, according to a State Department cable made public by Wikileaks.

Also, in 2009, the military shared ballistic missile data with Japan from
the Shared Early Warning system and the AN/TPY-2 X-band radar located at
Shariki, Aomori, Japan.

The Seventh Fleet and the Japan Maritime Self Defense Forces carried out
aegis ship data sharing.

As the missile was being fueled, U.S. Forces Japan activated a 24/7 Crisis
Action Team with the Japanese military.

U.S. secrecy regarding its missile defense deployments contrasts with
Japan's openness on the issue. Japanese Defense Minister Naoki Tanaka on
March 23 ordered missile defenses prepared for the North Korean launch. The
preparations included Aegis warships and ground-based PAC-3 defenses.

The North Korean missile's likely flight path could take it over Okinawa.

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr  3 19:19:37 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 19:19:37 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Report: New long-range NK missile identified at R&D
	facility; may appear in upcoming military parade
Message-ID: <3F61EAE64496479C951B3961F3B2E6C1@your94e826b122>

 

Could this (alleged) new rocket be used in space launch attempts?  Perhaps
something larger like a biological capsule, or a manned capsule precursor?

 

Can anyone talk to that?

 

 

>From the UK Telegraph

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9182604/North-Kore
a-preparing-to-unveil-missile-capable-of-striking-continental-US.html

 

 


North Korea 'preparing to unveil missile capable of striking continental US'


North Korea is preparing to unveil a new long-range missile that is capable
of striking targets in the continental US. 


By Julian Ryall in Tokyo 

9:27AM BST 03 Apr 2012

Reconnaissance satellites have identified the huge missile at a government
research and development facility in Pyongyang, South Korean government
sources told the Chosun Ilbo newspaper. 

Analysts estimate the weapon to be around 130 feet long and, equipped with a
more powerful booster unit, capable of delivering a warhead more than 6,200
miles. 

Unveiling the missile will raise new fears in neighbouring countries,
already alarmed by Pyongyang's insistence that it will go ahead with the
launch in mid-April of a rocket to put a satellite into orbit. 

Washington, Seoul and Tokyo believe the launch is a covert test launch of a
missile. 

Analysis of the rocket, which is being prepared for launch at the new
Tongchang-ri aerospace facility in the far north-west of the country,
indicates that at 105 feet long it is identical in length to the Taepodong-2
missile that was fired in April 2009 and, with a range of 4,163 miles, is
the most potent missile in the
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/> North Korean
armoury at present. 

South Korean and US officials said they believe Pyongyang wants to show the
new missile off at the military parade scheduled for April 15 to mark the
100th anniversary of the birthday of the founder of the nation, Kim Il-sung,
or on April 25th, which marks the founding of the North Korean army. 

The government sources said they were unable to determine whether the weapon
is functional or "a life-size mock-up" at present. 

Tokyo is taking the threat posed by the planned launch of the North Korean
rocket, announced for between April 12 and 16, seriously and is sending 450
troops to the southern island of Ishigaki to man Patriot Advanced
Capability-3 interceptor missiles. 

The Japanese government has stated that it will shoot down the rocket if it
threatens Japanese territory. 

Tokyo is also deploying state-of-the-art Aegis warships in the East China
Sea to monitor the launch. The vessels will be protected by F-15 fighters.

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr  3 21:44:52 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 21:44:52 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could the
	Columbia have been saved?
Message-ID: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>

On the local PBS station this evening they showed the BBC Horizon special
"Guide to the Space Shuttle."

 

One thing completely jumped out at me (besides the error claiming that
Salyut 1 was still up in space until Mir, when they intended to mean a
series of Salyut stations), was a short clip of our own fpspacer JimO, when
they were talking about the Columbia disaster.

 

The scenario that was explored was that if NASA had decided to investigate
the impact of the external tank insulation on the orbiter wing while the
mission was still on-going, and had they had some way of looking at it (they
showed a terrestrial telescope somewhere..perhaps Palomar, perhaps something
else), found out that the wing was compromised, could NASA have saved the
Shuttle Columbia.  They also brought up having a rescue mission by another
Shuttle, or have an astronaut do a spacewalk to look at the bottom of the
craft..

 

Now they had this very short clip of JimO appearing to say that Columbia
could've side-slipped its way through re-entry and possibly survived, where
the right side of the Shuttle could've borne the brunt of the re-entry (I
believe it was the left wing that had the damage), and possibly could've
saved the Shuttle from breaking up.

 

JimO, do you believe that this scenario is viable (the documentary was
issued in 2010)?  That they could've side-slipped (the term used by JimO in
the video clip I believe was "crabbed") in?  Was there more to your
interview JimO that they left out?

 

Does this sound viable?  Does this sound do-able?

 

I am putting this out there to those who may know more about this.  Because
that would have had to have been at least a good long while (not mere
seconds or mere minutes, like two or three or even ten) to engage this
proposed side-slip..

 

I find the suggestion by JimO interesting, but I don't know whether it
could've possibly have been a viable method.  Hence this inquiry to the
assembled.

 

Hold forth with your opinions.  I am willing to read what others think.

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Tue Apr  3 23:26:39 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 03:26:39 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: [Launch Alert] Delta IV Launched
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS25B04A2E17A0253A64D54E9C320@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Launch Alert
Sent: 4/4/2012 2:22:43 AM
To: Launch Alert
Subject: [Launch Alert] Delta IV Launched

                             LAUNCH ALERT

                              Brian Webb
                     Ventura County, California
                  launch-alert-editor at earthlink.net
                        www.spacearchive.info<http://www.spacearchive.info>

                                  2012 April 3 (Tuesday) 19:15 PDT
----------------------------------------------------------------------

 UNITED LAUNCH ALLIANCE DELTA IV ROCKET SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHES PAYLOAD
               FOR THE NATIONAL RECONNAISSANCE OFFICE
                          ULA News Release

Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif., (April 3, 2012) - A United Launch
Alliance (ULA) Delta IV rocket carrying a payload for the National
Reconnaissance Office (NRO) lifted off from Space Launch Complex-6
here at 4:12 p.m. PDT today. Designated NROL-25, the mission is in
support of national defense.

"Congratulations to the NRO and to all the mission partners involved
in this critical national security launch," said Jim Sponnick, ULA
vice president, Mission Operations. "ULA is proud to have supported
this mission and delivered critical capabilities to the men and women
defending our freedom throughout the world.

NROL-25 represents the first of five National Security Space missions
that will be launched by the EELV program over the next four months -
including four NRO missions along with the upcoming AEHF-2 launch.

This mission was launched aboard a Delta IV Evolved Expendable Launch
Vehicle (EELV) Medium-plus 5,2 configuration vehicle, using a ULA
single common booster core powered by a Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne
RS-68 main engine, along with two Alliant Techsystems GEM 60 solid
rocket motors. The five-meter diameter upper stage was powered by a
PWR RL10B-2 engine with the satellite encapsulated in a five-meter
diameter composite payload fairing. This was the first launch of this
Delta IV vehicle configuration.

Developed by the United States Air Force to assure access to space for
Department of Defense and other government payloads, the EELV Program
supports the full range of government mission requirements, while
delivering on schedule and providing significant cost savings over the
heritage launch systems.

ULA's next launch is the Atlas V AEHF-2 mission for the U.S. Air Force
scheduled in early May from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral
Air Force Station, Fla.

ULA program management, engineering, test, and mission support
functions are headquartered in Denver, Colo.  Manufacturing, assembly
and integration operations are located at Decatur, Ala., and
Harlingen, Texas. Launch operations are located at Cape Canaveral AFS,
Fla., and Vandenberg AFB, Calif.

For more information on ULA, visit the ULA Web site at
www.ulalaunch.com<http://www.ulalaunch.com>, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321
(852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch<http://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch> and
twitter.com/ulalaunch.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2012, Brian Webb. All rights reserved. No portion of this
newsletter may be used without identifying Launch Alert as the
source and providing a functioning hyperlink or text that point to
http://www.spacearchive.info/newsletter.htm.


______________________________________________________________
Launch-Alert mailing list
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From kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za  Wed Apr  4 05:43:11 2012
From: kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za (Keith Gottschalk)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 11:43:11 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] US is preparing to intervene (by shooting down) in NK
 satellite launch attempt
In-Reply-To: <75E9A1D276AA4786A08A0E4B466E7AF1@your94e826b122>
References: <75E9A1D276AA4786A08A0E4B466E7AF1@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <4F7C33CF020000A60001BAD5@uwc.ac.za>

         On the one hand, this comes across as staggering, over-the-top
reactions to a satellite launch. The cost of this huge US naval &
Japanese anti-missile deployment must approach a hundred million dollars
in total, including personnel & logistics, when all armed services have
had budget cuts.
 
       On the other hand, a political scientist must say that the North
Korean oligarchy brought this entirely upon themselves by:
 
1) repeated bellicose, belligerent, verbal threats to South Korea &
others;
 
2) Acts of War, such as torpedoing that South Korean naval ship, &
artillery bombardments; each of which alone would have justified a
proportionate response in kind;
 
3) repeated abductions of unarmed Japanese civilians in submarines -
move over Roswell & ETs! This is skating the borderline of acts of war?
Most bizarrely, those Japanese civilians (not all) who managed to
eventually escape or be repatriated to Japan relate that they were used
simply as forced labour to teach Japanese to some Korean officials.
Obviously the North Korean oligarchy could have easily hired some
Japanese communist party volunteer, or some unemployed language teacher
for that. These must rank as amongst the most gratuitous of state
abductions.
 
     We now wait to see if Baby Kim's first decade of rule will be any
different to Daddy Kim & Granddaddy Kim.
 
- Keith.


>>> On 2012/04/04 at 01:12 AM, in message
<75E9A1D276AA4786A08A0E4B466E7AF1 at your94e826b122>, "Peter Pesavento"
<pjp961 at svol.net> wrote:


The Following news story states an X-band radar has been transported by
sea to the Korean area of operations.
 
http://freebeacon.com/red-alert/
 
Pentagon activates missile defenses for North Korean launch
 
 
By Bill Gertz
 
The Pentagon recently activated its global missile shield in
anticipation of North Korea*s launch of a long-range missile, according
to defense officials.
The measures include stepped-up electronic monitoring, deployment of
missile interceptor ships, and activation of radar networks to areas
near the Korean peninsula and western Pacific.
Three interceptor ships near Japan and the Philippines, as well as
U.S.-based interceptors, are ready to shoot down the North Korean
missile if space-, land-, and sea-based sensors determine its flight
path is targeted at the United States or U.S. allies, said officials who
spoke on condition of anonymity.
The Obama administration will regard any launch by North Korea as a
violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions regardless of whether the
North Koreans claim the rocket test is for space launch purposes, the
officials said. The technology and rocketry used for a space launch is
nearly identical to that used with ballistic missiles that carry a
warhead, they said.
Also, because the payload or warhead of the test launch cannot be
determined prior to launch, the Obama administration decided to activate
the missile defense system.
According to U.S. officials, current intelligence assessments indicate
the North Korean missile will be launched from a base called
Tongchang-ri, located on a west coast peninsula north of Pyongyang
between April 12 and April 15.
The missile*s first stage could impact in the Yellow Sea near South
Korea and the second stage could land east of the Philippines in the
Pacific.
Satellite images published Monday show preparations for the launch are
continuing.
Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. April Cunningham would not say if missile
defenses were activated for the upcoming test.
However, Cunningham said, *North Korea*s announcement that it plans to
conduct a long-range missile launch at any time would be in direct
violation of its international obligations.*
U.N. Security Council Resolutions 1718 and 1874 *clearly and
unequivocally prohibit North Korea from conducting launches that use
ballistic missile technology,* she said.
*Such a missile launch would pose a threat to regional security and
would also be inconsistent with North Korea*s recent undertaking to
refrain from long-range missile launches,* Cunningham said.
*The U.S. closely monitors threats to international security and has
the capability to respond if and when appropriate.*
A U.S. official said the military*s large, X-band radar that is based
on a oil-rig-sized floating platform sailed from Honolulu to waters near
Korea on March 26 as part of the activation.
Current U.S. missile defense systems include networks of radar and
space tracking gear, including ground- and sea-based radar, Aegis ships,
and long-range interceptor missiles based in Alaska and California. A
total of 30 three-stage interceptors are deployed.
Any decision to shoot down the missile would be made by the president,
officials said.
The missile defense activation was briefly mentioned by Defense
Secretary Leon Panetta on Saturday during a meeting with reporters
aboard the Navy ship USS Peleliu. Asked what military steps were taken
to deal with a future North Korean launch, Panetta said the U.S. has
*put whatever assets in place that we need in order to deal with any
contingency.*
*We expressed our concern,* Panetta said of the upcoming launch. *The
president of the United States made very clear that the North Koreans
should not do this. It is provocative. It*s dangerous and it violates
the international law. And so our hope is that they will not do it. But
as always takes place in these kinds of situations, we have to be fully
prepared for any possibility*and we are.*
Details of the missile defense deployments are classified. However,
defense officials said the measures include the stationing of three Navy
Aegis-equipped warships around Japan that are equipped with SM-3 missile
interceptors.
The U.S. missile defense deployments are being closely coordinated with
Japan*s government and military, which has deployed two Aegis ships
armed with SM-3s, along with Patriot PAC-3 anti-missile batteries around
Tokyo.
Japan*s concern is that if the missile goes astray or breaks up, it
will target Japanese territory, and the shorter-range defenses will be
used to try and shoot down the debris before impact.
North Korea has announced that it is planning a space launch of a
satellite. But U.S. officials said the missile being readied on a launch
pad north of the capital of Pyongyang appears similar to North Korea*s
Taepodong-2 intercontinental ballistic missile.
U.S. officials also said that regardless of the configuration, the
launch is likely cover for a missile test since U.N. sanctions prohibit
North Korea from launching missiles.
According to the officials, the initial phases of the U.S. missile
defense activation include stepped-up intelligence gathering by spy
satellites and RC-135 Cobra Ball aircraft based at Kadena Air Base in
Okinawa, Japan.
Asked for details, a U.S. official would say only that *We*ve got what
we need to monitor a possible launch.*
Cmdr. Leslie Hull-Ryde, a second Pentagon spokeswoman, declined to
provide details on the North Korean launch preparation but said, *We*re
monitoring the situation very closely, along with our [Republic of
Korea] counterparts, to ensure the defense of the ROK.*
*Through our combined capabilities, we can sufficiently monitor North
Korea*s efforts,* she said.
Hull-Ryde declined to discuss military operations, plans or
intelligence but said, *We stand ready to defend U.S. territory, our
allies and our national interests.*
The last time missile defenses were activated on the current scale was
2009, when North Korea conducted a test flight of a Taepodong-2 on April
5.
Prior to that launch, also announced by Pyongyang as a space launch,
the Navy deployed two Aegis ships in the Sea of Japan and one Aegis east
of Japan, according to a State Department cable made public by
Wikileaks.
Also, in 2009, the military shared ballistic missile data with Japan
from the Shared Early Warning system and the AN/TPY-2 X-band radar
located at Shariki, Aomori, Japan.
The Seventh Fleet and the Japan Maritime Self Defense Forces carried
out aegis ship data sharing.
As the missile was being fueled, U.S. Forces Japan activated a 24/7
Crisis Action Team with the Japanese military.
U.S. secrecy regarding its missile defense deployments contrasts with
Japan*s openness on the issue. Japanese Defense Minister Naoki Tanaka on
March 23 ordered missile defenses prepared for the North Korean launch.
The preparations included Aegis warships and ground-based PAC-3
defenses.
The North Korean missile*s likely flight path could take it over
Okinawa.
 
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All Email originating from UWC is covered by disclaimer http://www.uwc.ac.za/emaildisclaimer


From miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Apr  4 07:13:44 2012
From: miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk (miriam harriott)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 12:13:44 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333538024.87153.YahooMailMobile@web171306.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://www.semeco.net/files/gimgs/jrklre.html"> http://www.semeco.net/files/gimgs/jrklre.html</a>
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Wed Apr  4 22:47:50 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 22:47:50 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Plutonium to Pluto: Russian nuclear space travel
	breakthrough
Message-ID: <BAY170-W12003FA030E6EBBF0FB12DF9C330@phx.gbl>





Plutonium to Pluto: Russian nuclear space travel breakthrough
Moscow, Russia (RIA Novosti) Apr 05, 2012 - A ground-breaking Russian nuclear space-travel propulsion system will be ready by 2017 and will power a ship capable of long-haul interplanetary missions by 2025, giving Russia a head start in the outer-space race.   The megawatt-class nuclear drive will function for up to three years and produce 100-150 kilowatts of energy at normal capacity.   The new project proposes the use of an ele ...more http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Plutonium_to_Pluto_Russian_nuclear_space_travel_breakthrough_999.html   		 	   		  
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From miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Apr  5 02:28:34 2012
From: miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk (miriam harriott)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 07:28:34 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333607314.27610.YahooMailMobile@web171302.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://elizabethlantagne.com/wp-content/plugins/extended-comment-options/fjgvkd.html"> http://elizabethlantagne.com/wp-content/plugins/extended-comment-options/fjgvkd.html</a>
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From svengrahn at bahnhof.se  Thu Apr  5 11:08:53 2012
From: svengrahn at bahnhof.se (Sven Grahn)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:08:53 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] FIA Radar 2 picked up again today. Fading!
Message-ID: <807BF49C66744DA09561028310AE0758@SvempaQ>

Picked it up today April 5 at 1415.20-1425.20 UT. CA 1422.00 UT. Fading every 7 seconds approx. Fx=2242.5 MHz. Fading also observed over U.S. Last night I observed no fading over Europe. Has it started tumbling?

BTW this S/C is the one launched from Vandenberg the other day on a Delta 4.

Sven
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From miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Apr  6 14:52:34 2012
From: miriam_harriott at yahoo.co.uk (miriam harriott)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 19:52:34 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1333738354.98444.YahooMailMobile@web171303.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

<a href="http://en2art.com/working/swinglabs/deliverables/working/rmngl.html"> http://en2art.com/working/swinglabs/deliverables/working/rmngl.html</a>
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  8 23:55:02 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 03:55:02 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 update
Message-ID: <BAY160-W5280D4C31D9E97B9BE46CAAA370@phx.gbl>


>From Yonhap: News of a possible April 12-13 launch? This would narrow the window.
------------------
SEOUL, April 9 (Yonhap) -- North Korea is expected to begin fueling a long-range rocket soon, the final step toward its launch set for as early as this week, a South Korean official said Monday.   "North Korea has only fueling remaining after completing the installation of three stages of boosters on a launch pad," the official said on condition of anonymity. "Fueling is expected to begin soon, considering it usually takes two to three days."
Pyongyang says the Unha-3 rocket will blast off between April 12-13 to put what it claims is a satellite into orbit. South Korea, the United States and other regional powers view the claim as a pretext to disguise a banned missile test.   In an attempt to bolster its case, the North has invited foreign journalists and experts to observe the launch. Reporters from more than 20 media firms have arrived in the communist nation, according to state media.   Foreign journalists and space experts have toured the launching station in the country's northwestern area of Cholsan, Pyongyang's official Korean Central News Agency reported Monday.------------------------

Morris JonesSydney

 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  9 18:48:54 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 22:48:54 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] DPRK plans satellite launches from both sites
Message-ID: <BAY160-W297A361EA60DE9BF793D3AA370@phx.gbl>


>From the Mainichi Daily news.

http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20120409p2g00m0dm080000c.html

North Korea plans use two rocket launch sites, one on the eastern coast and the other on the west, for its space program, according to a North Korean government official.The official, who briefed foreign journalists on Sunday about preparations for the nation's upcoming satellite launch in Tongchang-ri on the northwestern coast, said North Korea has a "concrete plan" for a satellite launch from the launch site at Musudan-ri in the country's northeast close to the Sea of Japan coast.North Korea on Sunday allowed foreign media outlets, including Kyodo News, an unprecedented visit to the launch site in Tongchang-ri, North Pyongan Province, where Pyongyang said it will launch an "earth observation satellite" between April 12 and 16.

Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Mon Apr  9 19:09:30 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 19:09:30 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] North Korean launch vehicle and satellite...first
	impressions
Message-ID: <E5FD65FCF96B40C3A8B9F276496FA09C@your94e826b122>

These are my impressions after seeing some footage of both the rocket and
satellite on the CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley at 6:30 PM EDT this
evening.

 

There were decently clear views of the rocket on the pad, and what struck me
is that there was one very close view of the first stage on the pad (lowest
part of it) that appeared to show that the paint on the first stage was
flaking off-it did not appear to be fresh paint, and the first stage rocket
skirt looked rather dingy.  Since it was not being fuelled at the time of
this released videotape, I am not certain why the paint was flaking off, or
why the first stage looked a bit shop-worn.

 

They also showed a model of the satellite inside a room with a North Korean
technician who was wearing an all-white clean room outfit holding a pointer.
The completely square, dark-colored satellite didn't strike me as an
observation type of satellite.  It appeared to be more of something akin to
a communications satellite. There was some very shiny gold plated
accoutrements sticking out the top of the satellite, but the views were not
of the lingering type, so I couldn't make out for certain what I was looking
at.

 

Those are some of my first impressions.

 

If others have some from viewing the materials on broadcasts, please post
them.

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From svengrahn at bahnhof.se  Tue Apr 10 01:29:37 2012
From: svengrahn at bahnhof.se (Sven Grahn)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 07:29:37 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] North Korean launch vehicle and satellite...first
	impressions
In-Reply-To: <E5FD65FCF96B40C3A8B9F276496FA09C@your94e826b122>
References: <E5FD65FCF96B40C3A8B9F276496FA09C@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <E7A43D74-9DAC-4F4A-BD6E-496B8B5B77F5@bahnhof.se>

I agree, the rocket looks like a mockup for training ground crews in erecting tje rocket on the pad. Saw such a practice rocket at Jiuquan many years ago.

Sven

Sent from my iPhone

Sven Grahn
R?ttviksv?gen 44
192 71 Sollentuna
Sweden 
Mobile: +46 70 3443844
svengrahn at Bahnhof.se
www.svengrahn.pp.se
Skype sven.grahn1


10 apr 2012 kl. 01:09 skrev "Peter Pesavento" <pjp961 at svol.net>:

> These are my impressions after seeing some footage of both the rocket and satellite on the CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley at 6:30 PM EDT this evening.
>  
> There were decently clear views of the rocket on the pad, and what struck me is that there was one very close view of the first stage on the pad (lowest part of it) that appeared to show that the paint on the first stage was flaking off?it did not appear to be fresh paint, and the first stage rocket skirt looked rather dingy.  Since it was not being fuelled at the time of this released videotape, I am not certain why the paint was flaking off, or why the first stage looked a bit shop-worn.
>  
> They also showed a model of the satellite inside a room with a North Korean technician who was wearing an all-white clean room outfit holding a pointer.  The completely square, dark-colored satellite didn?t strike me as an observation type of satellite.  It appeared to be more of something akin to a communications satellite. There was some very shiny gold plated accoutrements sticking out the top of the satellite, but the views were not of the lingering type, so I couldn?t make out for certain what I was looking at.
>  
> Those are some of my first impressions.
>  
> If others have some from viewing the materials on broadcasts, please post them.
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 10 02:32:23 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 06:32:23 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 launch and weather
Message-ID: <BAY160-W170C5FB60A4657744A22DBAA340@phx.gbl>


It seems probable that weather will influence the launch date for Unha-3, just like any other rocket launch.
The North Koreans will want to avoid extreme conditions, and would also presumably want clear skies so they can observe the launch.
Current weather forecasts for North Korea suggest cloudy skies for the days ahead.
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/47058.html

A day with partial cloud should be acceptable. Of course, weather can change rapidly. 
Morris Jones Sydney


 		 	   		  
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From ambonnici at onvol.net  Tue Apr 10 08:06:05 2012
From: ambonnici at onvol.net (Alex Michael Bonnici)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:06:05 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] NASA confirms that Earth has received an Extraterrestrial
	message! : )
Message-ID: <425CF782B0DF4500A9064CA0A9C82211@AlexPC>

 

NASA confirms that Earth has received an Extraterrestrial message!

EXTRA, EXTRA, EXTRA, READ ALL ABOUT IT: THE SUN SENDS US A RUDE
MESSAGE!!!!!! Believers in the 2012 end-times conspiracy got a boost
today!!!!

http://www.3news.co.nz/Sun-flips-the-bird-in-new-NASA-photo/tabid/1160/artic
leID/246502/Default.aspx

Alex Michael Bonnici 

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr 10 14:54:50 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:54:50 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK satellite is apparently a weather satellite...as
	confirmed by US NSC spokesman
Message-ID: <76A19953D03E451C8F3071D0BF51F4AF@your94e826b122>

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/white-house-condemns-north-korea-rocket-p
ropaganda-154427788.html

 

 


North Korea rocket 'propaganda' condemned by White House


By Oliver Knox "The Ticket"

 

The White House on Tuesday denounced secretive North Korea's overtures to
international news outlets ahead of a long-range rocket launch as
"propaganda." It also mocked the impoverished Stalinist regime's claim that
it merely aims to put a weather satellite in orbit, saying it should just
"go to weather.com
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ApyLyO3nyseYIie3pHPBzgebCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFoNjRm
YmZuBG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_yl
g=X3oDMTNjZ290bmk4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDljYWRmNTgtMjE3NS0zNj
ZhLWI0MzgtODNiMGZjYWQzNTRiBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhldGlja2V0BHB0A3N0b3J5cG
FnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=0/SIG=11b430mjc/EXP=1335293578/**http%3A/www.weather.com
/> ."

Taking aim at North Korea's unprecedented
<http://news.yahoo.com/rice-paddies-rocketry-journey-n-korea-221411222.html;
_ylt=AuFMMOKnbLxMHWqa1oQRgR6bCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFocm9hZXB0BG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEc
G9zAzIEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_ylg=X3oDMTNjZ290bmk4BGludGw
DdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDljYWRmNTgtMjE3NS0zNjZhLWI0MzgtODNiMGZjYWQzNTR
iBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhldGlja2V0BHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=3>
media blitz ahead of the planned launch, U.S. National Security Council
spokesman Tommy Vietor told reporters that "you don't have to be a rocket
scientist to know this is propaganda. North Korea is trying to advance, test
and show off its ballistic missile technology. The U.N. bans this activity,
which is why they're using the press to pretend it's a satellite launch."

"North Korea doesn't need to spend this kind of money on a weather
satellite," Vietor said in an emailed statement. "Go to weather.com
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AinkhPfV5JC_hJHkXdmun9GbCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFoYzYw
OGR0BG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzMEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_yl
g=X3oDMTNjZ290bmk4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDljYWRmNTgtMjE3NS0zNj
ZhLWI0MzgtODNiMGZjYWQzNTRiBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhldGlja2V0BHB0A3N0b3J5cG
FnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=0/SIG=117jrasps/EXP=1335293578/**http%3A/weather.com/> .
Reporters visiting North Korea just to cover this launch are missing the
real story-history is passing North Korea by, and millions of innocent
people are starving to death because the regime spends all its money on
weapons."

Vietor also drew attention to a
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ArHoIuxzxAKIeDI0uTgafMObCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFobDF0
N3FnBG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzQEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_yl
g=X3oDMTNjZ290bmk4BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDljYWRmNTgtMjE3NS0zNj
ZhLWI0MzgtODNiMGZjYWQzNTRiBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhldGlja2V0BHB0A3N0b3J5cG
FnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=0/SIG=14c0h0gga/EXP=1335293578/**http%3A/hosted.ap.org/d
ynamic/stories/U/US_US_NKOREA_PRISON_CAMPS%3FSITE=AP%26%2338;SECTION=HOME%26
%2338;TEMPLATE=DEFAULT>  "horrific" report by a human rights group that
North Korea detains more than 150,000 of its people in political prisons and
labor camps.

North Korea says its rocket launch, expected between Thursday and Monday,
aims to put a satellite called Kwangmyongsong-3 (Shining Star) in orbit as
it marks the 100th anniversary of the birth of the country's revered
founding leader, Kim Il Sung.

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr 10 17:43:43 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:43:43 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Excellent NK satellite launch related photos
Message-ID: <F898DB366F1F471791E6EE9BB3CF728C@your94e826b122>

Check them out here

 

http://cryptome.org/2012-info/dprk-missile/dprk-missile.htm

 

 

 

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Tue Apr 10 20:38:49 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:38:49 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] FIA Radar 2 picked up again today. Fading!
In-Reply-To: <807BF49C66744DA09561028310AE0758@SvempaQ>
References: <807BF49C66744DA09561028310AE0758@SvempaQ>
Message-ID: <BAY170-W110C95D51C5E6CB678953149C350@phx.gbl>


Secret Satellite Promptly Detected in OrbitApril 10th, 2012 by Steven Aftergood  On April 3, the National Reconnaissance Office successfully launched a classified intelligence satellite into orbit from Vandenberg Air Force Base.  Notwithstanding the usual operations security measures, amateur satellite trackers were able to locate the satellite in orbit within a few hours and even to videotape its passage overhead. Last week?s launch is the first of four scheduled launches of NRO satellites in the next five months.  Last year, the NRO launched six satellites over a seven month period. ?We are in the middle of a launch campaign with an unprecedented operational tempo across national security space programs,? said Gil Klinger, deputy assistant secretary of defense for space policy, at a March 8 hearing of the House Armed Services Committee. http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2012/04/sat_detected.html From: svengrahn at bahnhof.se
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:08:53 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] FIA Radar 2 picked up again today. Fading!







Picked it up today April 5 
at 1415.20-1425.20 UT. CA 1422.00 UT. Fading every 7 seconds approx. Fx=2242.5 
MHz. Fading also observed over U.S. Last night I observed no fading over Europe. 
Has it started tumbling?
 
BTW this S/C is the one launched from Vandenberg 
the other day on a Delta 4.
 


Sven

_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Tue Apr 10 20:50:11 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:50:11 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display for
	Western Journalists
Message-ID: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>

Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on my
local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main news
reader.

 

I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. 

 

They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with commentary.
Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then there was a
Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video, while being
interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about the rocket.
Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area between the
second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not know what
that means.

 

Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides. the commentary
said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.

 

Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on there
(right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn't look like a
control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the satellite is
too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly designed, I
interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are claiming it
will do.. Many characteristics of authentic, operational satellites do not
exist on the model that was put on display for the journalists.  This
appears to be a different press conference, as there is a technician
speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that apparently is all
white.

 

Thought you might like to know.

 

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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 10 23:37:46 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 03:37:46 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] KCNA is still quiet about Unha-3 launch
Message-ID: <BAY160-W63E97677B136CC39F9E3A8AA350@phx.gbl>


For what it's worth, some information could possibly appear on the KCNA Web site before the Unha-3 launch.
http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng

At the time of writing, there are no clues to the launch date.
This email is being sent less than 24 hours before the opening of the launch window.
Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From baris.gencay at gmail.com  Wed Apr 11 01:47:06 2012
From: baris.gencay at gmail.com (Baris Gencay)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:47:06 +0300
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
 for Western Journalists
In-Reply-To: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
References: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <CACC9-_Gti8umSw2Hs8RGbWXWKoT27jRdLGipvok=Qe9PP=bQrA@mail.gmail.com>

Peter,

What would this Japanese engineer comment on these satellites below;

http://www.sstl.co.uk/getattachment/b0d842b8-427c-42a0-94d4-6dbea012b23f/DEIMOS-1-in-orbit?width=636


http://blog.sstl.co.uk/uploads/Alsat_flight.jpg

http://www.loyokezie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/NigeriaSat-1.jpg

They both *do not* have deployable solar panels and they both *do not* have
any "orbital adjustment jet".

Do you think they are badly designed too?


Baris






On 11 April 2012 03:50, Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net> wrote:

>  Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on
> my local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main
> news reader.****
>
> ** **
>
> I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. ****
>
> ** **
>
> They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with
> commentary.   Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then
> there was a Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video,
> while being interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about
> the rocket.  Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area
> between the second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not
> know what that means.****
>
> ** **
>
> Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
> affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides? the commentary
> said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.****
>
> ** **
>
> Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
> they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
> nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on
> there (right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn?t look
> like a control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the
> satellite is too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly
> designed, I interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are
> claiming it will do?. Many characteristics of authentic, operational
> satellites do not exist on the model that was put on display for the
> journalists.  This appears to be a different press conference, as there is
> a technician speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that
> apparently is all white.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thought you might like to know.****
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Wed Apr 11 01:50:12 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 07:50:12 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
 for Western Journalists
In-Reply-To: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
References: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjvgwHmZaWYXOnG0m1UXi_7WQCvtCgBkwk1eWCABiiY3ew@mail.gmail.com>

2012/4/11 Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net>

>  Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on
> my local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main
> news reader.****
>
> ** **
>
> I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. ****
>
> ** **
>
> They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with
> commentary.   Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then
> there was a Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video,
> while being interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about
> the rocket.  Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area
> between the second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not
> know what that means.****
>
> ** **
>
> Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
> affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides? the commentary
> said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.****
>
> ** **
>
> Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
> they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
> nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on
> there (right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn?t look
> like a control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the
> satellite is too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly
> designed, I interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are
> claiming it will do?. Many characteristics of authentic, operational
> satellites do not exist on the model that was put on display for the
> journalists.  This appears to be a different press conference, as there is
> a technician speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that
> apparently is all white.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thought you might like to know.
>


This comentary to the satellite hints, that the engineer expects to much
from this satellite. An earth observation satellite can be made crude,
without deployable solar arrays and without thrusters. Compare e.g. to the
UoSat satellites: http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/uosat-3.htm

Gunter Krebs
http://space.skyrocket.de
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Wed Apr 11 08:36:18 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:36:18 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
	for Western Journalists
In-Reply-To: <CACC9-_Gti8umSw2Hs8RGbWXWKoT27jRdLGipvok=Qe9PP=bQrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
 <CACC9-_Gti8umSw2Hs8RGbWXWKoT27jRdLGipvok=Qe9PP=bQrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AEDD3A50FFD345B6B3729B36C40249A1@your94e826b122>

Baris,

 

I have no opinion on whether the NK satellite is badly designed or not.  I
was providing commentary from a news feed from NHK.  Like I said in my text
I posted, I was providing the information without evaluation.

 

Best,

 

Peter

 

  _____  

From: Baris Gencay [mailto:baris.gencay at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:47 AM
To: Peter Pesavento
Cc: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
for Western Journalists

 

Peter,

 

What would this Japanese engineer comment on these satellites below;

 

http://www.sstl.co.uk/getattachment/b0d842b8-427c-42a0-94d4-6dbea012b23f/DEI
MOS-1-in-orbit?width=636 

 

http://blog.sstl.co.uk/uploads/Alsat_flight.jpg 

 

http://www.loyokezie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/NigeriaSat-1.jpg 

 

They both do not have deployable solar panels and they both do not have any
"orbital adjustment jet".

 

Do you think they are badly designed too?

 

 

Baris

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 11 April 2012 03:50, Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net> wrote:

Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on my
local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main news
reader.

 

I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. 

 

They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with commentary.
Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then there was a
Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video, while being
interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about the rocket.
Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area between the
second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not know what
that means.

 

Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides. the commentary
said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.

 

Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on there
(right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn't look like a
control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the satellite is
too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly designed, I
interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are claiming it
will do.. Many characteristics of authentic, operational satellites do not
exist on the model that was put on display for the journalists.  This
appears to be a different press conference, as there is a technician
speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that apparently is all
white.

 

Thought you might like to know.

 


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

 

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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Wed Apr 11 08:41:50 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:41:50 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
 for Western Journalists
In-Reply-To: <AEDD3A50FFD345B6B3729B36C40249A1@your94e826b122>
References: <2185040CAFA9490DAD6688BA4FE8BB15@your94e826b122>
 <CACC9-_Gti8umSw2Hs8RGbWXWKoT27jRdLGipvok=Qe9PP=bQrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <AEDD3A50FFD345B6B3729B36C40249A1@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjvb_QNOcNmC6BhiRL+ceJp7a_-zkt8LpC0LhO_ZDsKnBg@mail.gmail.com>

Peter,

you are not the recipient of the criticism, but the Japanese engeneer, who
provided the commentary.

Gunter

2012/4/11 Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net>

>  Baris,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have no opinion on whether the NK satellite is badly designed or not.  I
> was providing commentary from a news feed from NHK.  Like I said in my text
> I posted, I was providing the information without evaluation.****
>
> ** **
>
> Best,****
>
> ** **
>
> Peter****
>
> ** **
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Baris Gencay [mailto:baris.gencay at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:47 AM
> *To:* Peter Pesavento
> *Cc:* fpspace at friends-partners.org
> *Subject:* Re: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on
> display for Western Journalists****
>
> ** **
>
> Peter,****
>
> ** **
>
> What would this Japanese engineer comment on these satellites below;****
>
> ** **
>
>
> http://www.sstl.co.uk/getattachment/b0d842b8-427c-42a0-94d4-6dbea012b23f/DEIMOS-1-in-orbit?width=636
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> http://blog.sstl.co.uk/uploads/Alsat_flight.jpg ****
>
> ** **
>
> http://www.loyokezie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/NigeriaSat-1.jpg ****
>
> ** **
>
> They both *do not* have deployable solar panels and they both *do not*have any "orbital adjustment jet".
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Do you think they are badly designed too?****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Baris****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 11 April 2012 03:50, Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net> wrote:****
>
> Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on my
> local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main news
> reader.****
>
>  ****
>
> I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation. ****
>
>  ****
>
> They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with
> commentary.   Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then
> there was a Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video,
> while being interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about
> the rocket.  Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area
> between the second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not
> know what that means.****
>
>  ****
>
> Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells
> affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides? the commentary
> said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.****
>
>  ****
>
> Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where
> they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any
> nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on
> there (right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn?t look
> like a control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the
> satellite is too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly
> designed, I interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are
> claiming it will do?. Many characteristics of authentic, operational
> satellites do not exist on the model that was put on display for the
> journalists.  This appears to be a different press conference, as there is
> a technician speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that
> apparently is all white.****
>
>  ****
>
> Thought you might like to know.****
>
>  ****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace****
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Wed Apr 11 09:26:53 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 13:26:53 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display
 for Western Journalists
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS34E63CF83B78DD22690DE29C350@phx.gbl>

I would not expect the Japanese to be praising anything from North Korea. Or expecting any rocket by them to have any real purpose other than military. Larry ---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Gunter Krebs
Sent: 4/11/2012 12:41:50 PM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display for Western Journalists
Peter,

you are not the recipient of the criticism, but the Japanese engeneer, who provided the commentary.

Gunter

2012/4/11 Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net<mailto:pjp961 at svol.net>>
Baris,

I have no opinion on whether the NK satellite is badly designed or not.  I was providing commentary from a news feed from NHK.  Like I said in my text I posted, I was providing the information without evaluation.

Best,

Peter

________________________________
From: Baris Gencay [mailto:baris.gencay at gmail.com<mailto:baris.gencay at gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:47 AM
To: Peter Pesavento
Cc: fpspace at friends-partners.org<mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] NK Satellite may be a fake that was put on display for Western Journalists

Peter,

What would this Japanese engineer comment on these satellites below;

http://www.sstl.co.uk/getattachment/b0d842b8-427c-42a0-94d4-6dbea012b23f/DEIMOS-1-in-orbit?width=636

http://blog.sstl.co.uk/uploads/Alsat_flight.jpg

http://www.loyokezie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/NigeriaSat-1.jpg

They both do not have deployable solar panels and they both do not have any "orbital adjustment jet".

Do you think they are badly designed too?


Baris






On 11 April 2012 03:50, Peter Pesavento <pjp961 at svol.net<mailto:pjp961 at svol.net>> wrote:
Right now, I am watching NHK World (English service).  8:30 PM, EDT, on my local PBS station, via MHZ networks.  Katherine Kobiyashi is the main news reader.

I am supplying this information as it comes in, without evaluation.

They showed some extended video of the NK satellite, along with commentary.   Roughly about 60 to 70 seconds with voice over, and then there was a Japanese aerospace engineer who made comments on the video, while being interviewed in studio. There was also a lot of coverage about the rocket.  Careful examination of the interstage/intertank skirt area between the second and third stages was quite soiled and darkened.  Do not know what that means.

Apparently there are no deployable solar panels.  There are solar cells affixed to the sides of the square box on all four sides. the commentary said that the solar cells are affixed to the sides of the satellite.

Also, there are no orbital adjustment jets anywhere on the satellite where they should be (such as at the corners at the satellite, to control any nutation), and the one that they claim is an orbital adjustment jet on there (right smack dab in the middle), is in the middle, and doesn't look like a control thruster.  The NHK aerospace engineer stated that the satellite is too crude (he may have been hinting that it was also badly designed, I interpreted that as his inference) to do anything that they are claiming it will do.. Many characteristics of authentic, operational satellites do not exist on the model that was put on display for the journalists.  This appears to be a different press conference, as there is a technician speaking in English, and is wearing a business suit, that apparently is all white.

Thought you might like to know.


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org<mailto:FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org>
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org<mailto:FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org>
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace


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From ljk4 at msn.com  Wed Apr 11 09:28:56 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 13:28:56 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: [New post] Thoughts on the NACA Model for Technology
	Transfer
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS253C11899E82D231BD83E69C350@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Launius's Blog
Sent: 4/11/2012 11:22:36 AM
To: ljk4 at msn.com
Subject: [New post] Thoughts on the NACA Model for Technology Transfer

New post on Roger Launius's Blog
        [http://1.gravatar.com/blavatar/5ab615dc2687e96bf21dc4fa4be2f3ff?s=32&ts=1334143356]
[http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/488baba4b54ec638fa19eeebd09b6b69?s=50&d=identicon&r=G]<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/>
Thoughts on the NACA Model for Technology Transfer<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/thoughts-on-the-naca-model-for-technology-transfer/>
by launiusr<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/>

[http://launiusr.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/naca-logo.jpg]<http://launiusr.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/naca-logo.jpg>I published this week an op-ed in Space News entitled "The NACA Model for Technology Transfer<http://spacenews.com/commentaries/120409-naca-model-tech-transfer.html>." In this piece I laid out the manner in which the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) approached the issue of deciding, developing, and disseminating the results of research and development (R&D) projects. If you are interested in this subject I would refer you to the piece on the Space News website, which I have linked to above.

At various times politicians and others have suggested that the NACA model of R&D should become the new standard for NASA in the twenty-first century. In 1995 then Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (Republican-Georgia) famously declared that although he favored science and technology investment he believed that NASA should have been dismantled after Apollo and returned to its NACA roots. Mr. Gingrich was not alone in this observation, and I asked two central questions about this possible course at the end of my op-ed: "Is this the model NASA should pursue going forward when it comes to research and development of space technologies? Assuming some changes in NASA's approach are appropriate, how might the NACA model of technology transfer be altered for a new age in the 21st century?"

I immediately heard from friends about meeting them to consider answers to those questions over a drink. That would be a worthwhile exercise, no doubt, but I'm curious if others have thoughts about those questions and how NASA might most effectively accomplish its mission moving forward at this critical juncture in its history. Is the NACA model the way to go, or are other approaches more effective?

[http://launiusr.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/naca-aeronautical-conference.jpg]<http://launiusr.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/naca-aeronautical-conference.jpg>

Orville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, and Howard Hughes were among the attendees at Langley's 1934 Aircraft Manufacturers' Conference. Conference guests assembled underneath a Boeing P-26A Peashooter in the Full-Scale Tunnel for this photo. (NASA photo L-9850)

launiusr<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/> | April 11, 2012 at 11:22 am | Tags: History<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=history>, International Space Station<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=international-space-station>, NACA<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=naca>, NASA<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=nasa>, National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=national-advisory-committee-for-aeronautics>, Newt Gingrich<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=newt-gingrich>, presidential power<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=presidential-power>, Space News<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=space-news>, space shuttle<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=space-shuttle>, technology transfer<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=technology-transfer>, U.S. Civil Space<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=u-s-civil-space> | Categories: aeronautics<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=74530>, aviation<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=2454>, History<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=678>, Politics<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=398>, Space<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=174> | URL: http://wp.me/pwYu1-P9

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Wed Apr 11 14:00:13 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:00:13 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] FW: [CubeSat] PRESS RELEASE: Spaceflight Unveils Its
 DecaPODT CubeSat Deployer
In-Reply-To: <000301cd1733$594111e0$0bc335a0$@com>
References: <000301cd1733$594111e0$0bc335a0$@com>
Message-ID: <BAY170-W23770B28913325759277F59C350@phx.gbl>



 From: AYoung at spaceflightservices.com
To: cubesat at cubesat.org
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:02:36 -0700
Subject: [CubeSat] PRESS RELEASE: Spaceflight Unveils Its DecaPODT CubeSat	Deployer



Spaceflight Unveils Its DecaPOD? CubeSat Deployer

April 10, 2012 ? Tukwila, WA. Spaceflight Inc. (Spaceflight) unveiled its DecaPOD? CubeSat Deployer, a self-contained system for transporting ten 3U CubeSats to space and deploying them on orbit.  

?We have strong demand right now for the launch of 3U CubeSats on all of our launch opportunities,? said Jason Andrews, Spaceflight?s President and CEO.  ?The DecaPOD? is an integrated system solution with sequencer and camera to provide a turnkey solution to address this growing market need.?

The Spaceflight DecaPOD? is an integrated container of ten 3U CubeSat dispensers.  The DecaPOD? has an integrated sequencer that receives high-level commands from the launch vehicle?s avionics and automatically deploys the spacecraft.  The DecaPOD sequencer is also connected to a camera that provides still imagery, or video, of each deployment as requested by the customer.

The DecaPOD? is being commercially developed by Spaceflight and is manifested on a mission in early 2013.  

?Spaceflight can accommodate two DecaPODs on each of the Spaceflight Secondary Payload System?s (SSPS) five ports,? continued Andrews. ?We have customers looking to launch between twenty and one hundred CubeSats on a given mission to create a constellation that addresses a wide range of scientific and commercial applications.  Our DecaPOD? solution addresses this market need.?

About Spaceflight, Inc.:

Spaceflight Inc. was established in 2009 by Jason Andrews, President and CEO of Andrews Space, to revolutionize secondary payload flight services for fixed and deployable cargo and transport.  More information about Spaceflight and specific flight opportunities can be found on the company?s website: www.spaceflightservices.com   Ashley YoungSocial Media Coordinator(206) 438-0670 Spaceflight Inc3415 S. 116th Street, Suite 123Tukwila, WA 98168 
_______________________________________________
CubeSat mailing list
CubeSat at cubesat.org
http://lists.cubesat.org/mailman/listinfo/cubesat 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 11 22:55:18 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:55:18 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Frequencies for DPRK satellite
Message-ID: <BAY160-W1B85B05CEA656B5E67511AA3A0@phx.gbl>


Dear FPSers,
Does anyone have information on radio frequencies to be used by the expected DPRK satellite?
I am trying to get some Australian amateur radio operators to tune in.
Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 01:47:01 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:47:01 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 launch postponed due to weather (?)
Message-ID: <BAY160-W46D7F3EBB5BB826EA4D87DAA3A0@phx.gbl>


MSNBC quotes Kyodo news (Japan) with a report that Unha-3 was not launched today due to bad weather.
This makes me wonder: Just what sort of weather do they want, and how likely are they to get it?
It's possibly cloudy, which could make optical observations difficult, but it it possible that it will remain cloudy for some time.
It's also possible that the launch was postponed for other reasons, technical or otherwise.
Any theories?
Morris Jones, Sydney


 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 03:23:51 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:23:51 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Saturday 14 April launch for Unha-3?
Message-ID: <BAY160-W6459FA6B7DFEE092F6EC3AAA3A0@phx.gbl>


>From Yonhap:
  A South Korean official said North Korea could launch the rocket at any date, noting a key factor wil be the weather conditions around the launch pad in the country's northwest.   Skies will be cloudy with weak winds near the launch site until Sunday and rains are expected Monday, said Cho Nam-san, an analyst of Korea Meteorological Administration.   Many analysts believe the lift-off could come Saturday on the eve of the centennial birth celebrations of the North's late founder Kim Il-sung, the grandfather of current leader Kim Jong-un.   Paek Chang-ho, head of the satellite control center of the North's Korean Committee of Space Technology, has said the exact timing of the launch will be decided by his superiors, the Reuters news agency reported Wednesday.
---------------------------------
This report casts doubt on weather as a reason for avoiding a launch today.
Morris Jones,Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Thu Apr 12 13:51:14 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:51:14 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] More on NK's satellite
Message-ID: <6AE51EFF31FF4173929B567A1FD5C19E@your94e826b122>

Apparently there is a (video?) camera on board this satellite.  I did not
see any evidence of one in the NHK lengthy news item about the NK launch
preparations that showed the mock-up model shown to the press.

 

But here is some more information that I did not know:

 

http://cns.miis.edu/stories/120410_dprk_rocket_launch_faq.htm

 


An excerpt:

3. What kind of satellite is North Korean trying to put into orbit?

 <http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2012/201203/news16/20120316-20ee.html> KCNA
describes the Kwangmyongsong-3 as a "polar-orbiting earth observation
satellite." According to
<http://www.northkoreatech.org/2012/03/20/itu-confirms-dprk-satellite-launch
-plans/> data provided to the International Telecommunications Union, the
satellite will broadcast video back to the earth. A different
<http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2012/201203/news28/20120328-40ee.html> KCNA
interview with a vice director of the Space Development Department of the
Korean Committee for Space Technology (KCST) claims that North Korea "will
assess the distribution of forests and natural resources of the DPRK, the
level of natural disaster, the crop estimate, etc. and collect data
necessary for weather forecast, natural resources prospecting and others,"
which is a normal use for earth observation satellites. The announced launch
trajectory, almost exactly due south, is what one would expect to place a
satellite in a polar orbit, in which a satellite passes above (or very
nearly above) both poles of the earth. However, the same KCNA interview also
suggests that the satellite will be in a "solar synchronous orbit at 500km
high altitude." The new solar synchronous description conflicts with the
notices to airmen (NOTAMS) that were previously filed,
<http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/N.Korea_2012_launch.png> raising doubt
about the intended orbit of the satellite. 

 

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Thu Apr 12 15:44:20 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:44:20 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day
Message-ID: <D7E963F14E3C4F3CA8E29D2AECCF2295@your94e826b122>

To one and all, on the 51st anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's mission-which,
without it happening, there probably wouldn't have been project Apollo.

 

I wonder this, though.

 

During the USSR era, every April 12 stamps were issued for this day.  Is
this tradition continuing today?  Does the Russian Federation regularly
issue new space stamps when April 12 comes around?

 

Or inform if it doesn't do that.

 

If someone can speak to that, please hold forth.

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From dstdba at post4.tele.dk  Thu Apr 12 16:49:34 2012
From: dstdba at post4.tele.dk (Jens Kieffer-Olsen)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:49:34 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day
In-Reply-To: <D7E963F14E3C4F3CA8E29D2AECCF2295@your94e826b122>
References: <D7E963F14E3C4F3CA8E29D2AECCF2295@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <002a01cd18ed$c6ecdce0$54c696a0$@tele.dk>

At least in 2011 a commemorative stamp was issued:

http://www.stspb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2
<http://www.stspb.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=271> &t=271

 

--

Jens Kieffer-Olsen

Slagelse, Denmark 

 

Fra: Peter Pesavento [mailto:pjp961 at svol.net] 
Sendt: 12. april 2012 21:44
Til: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Emne: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day

 

To one and all, on the 51st anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's mission-which,
without it happening, there probably wouldn't have been project Apollo.

 

I wonder this, though.

 

During the USSR era, every April 12 stamps were issued for this day.  Is this
tradition continuing today?  Does the Russian Federation regularly issue new
space stamps when April 12 comes around?

 

Or inform if it doesn't do that.

 

If someone can speak to that, please hold forth.

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 12 17:32:20 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:32:20 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS7E879FAE55869B7A01FC39C3A0@phx.gbl>

A friend told me that when the animated film Cars was translated into Ukranian, the line at the end by Mater the tow truck when he got his wish to fly in a helicopter was changed. In English it was Im as happy as a tornado in a trailer park! In Ukrainian it was I am as happy as Yuri Gargaran! :^) ---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Pesavento
Sent: 4/12/2012 7:44:20 PM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Happy Cosmonaut Day
To one and all, on the 51st anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's mission-which, without it happening, there probably wouldn't have been project Apollo.

I wonder this, though.

During the USSR era, every April 12 stamps were issued for this day.  Is this tradition continuing today?  Does the Russian Federation regularly issue new space stamps when April 12 comes around?

Or inform if it doesn't do that.

If someone can speak to that, please hold forth.
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 19:06:15 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:06:15 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] DPRK LAUNCH!
Message-ID: <BAY160-W550AEDC3F5910131794DD9AA3A0@phx.gbl>


Reports that launch just took place.

Morris

 		 	   		  
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 12 19:16:20 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:16:20 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: CNN Breaking News
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS35FE50BBEFD1D81DFC49049C3A0@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: CNN Breaking News
Sent: 4/12/2012 11:01:05 PM
To: textbreakingnews at ema3lsv06.turner.com
Subject: CNN Breaking News

Defying warnings from the international community, North Korea launched a long-range rocket it says is carrying a satellite into orbit, South Korea's Yonhap Television News reported Friday.

>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
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Click here to get your 2012 score instantly for $0!
By Experian
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To unsubscribe from Breaking News e-mail alerts, go to: http://cgi.cnn.com/m/clik?l=textbreakingnews

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(c) & (r) 2012 Cable News Network
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 19:38:32 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:38:32 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] DPRK ROCKET - FAILURE
Message-ID: <BAY160-W26DE280E222B5818630C6FAA3A0@phx.gbl>


North Korea has launched a long-range rocket, but it appears to have broken apart soon after, reports say.US officials confirmed the rocket but said the rocket then broke into pieces, CNN reports.According to projected trajectories captured by an international news crew the rocket was predicted to fly over parts of Australia.





 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 20:20:53 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 00:20:53 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 failure - early review
Message-ID: <BAY160-W21A261DF916D303E7E353AA3B0@phx.gbl>


I've been watching various news sources and have gleaned the following data.
*) Failure seems to have occurred after roughly one minute of flight.
*) Failure involved the first stage.
*) Unha-3 has crashed into water.
Now there will be a scramble to retrieve debris, much of it conducted covertly.
Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From thomsona at flash.net  Thu Apr 12 20:24:42 2012
From: thomsona at flash.net (Allen Thomson)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:24:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 failure - early review
In-Reply-To: <BAY160-W21A261DF916D303E7E353AA3B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY160-W21A261DF916D303E7E353AA3B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1334276682.20591.YahooMailRC@web180913.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>



*) Failure seems to have occurred after roughly one minute of flight.

*) Failure involved the first stage.

Much like the first flight of this rocket back in 2006, no?  
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From pjp961 at svol.net  Thu Apr 12 21:21:17 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:21:17 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] More on NK launch failure
Message-ID: <95E7BDED47084FBBA15DFDDA61763F85@your94e826b122>


I have a question-are the lives of the rocket engineers who were involved in
the construction and preparations for launching-are they in jeopardy? The NK
nation has lost face with this third failure-and after all the hoopla, and
even the unprecedented western press invitation/exposure. Recall that when
the finance minister allowed the North Korean monetary unit to "float," that
it crashed.  People really suffered subsequently.  The finance minister was
executed, if I recall correctly.


 


Associated Press via Huffington Post


 


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/12/north-korea-rocket-2012-l_n_1422319
.html


 


 


North Korea Rocket 2012: Launch Reported By South Korea 


By JEAN H. LEE 04/12/12 08:55 PM ET

 

SEOUL, South Korea - South Korea's foreign minister says a North Korean
long-range rocket launch has been confirmed a "failure."

Kim Sung-hwan provided no further details about what he said was the North's
failure to launch a rocket the West has condemned as a cover for a missile
test.

He told reporters Friday in a nationally televised address that Seoul is
"strongly condemning North Korea's new leadership" for ignoring
international warnings to cancel the launch.

South Korean and U.S. officials earlier said North Korea fired a long-range
rocket. That was in defiance of international warnings against moving
forward with a launch widely seen as a provocation.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information.
AP's earlier story is below.

PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) - North Korea fired a long-range rocket early
Friday, South Korean and U.S. officials said, defying international warnings
against moving forward with a launch widely seen as a provocation.

Space officials had announced they would launch a satellite this week as
part of celebrations honoring North Korea founder Kim Il Sung, and liftoff
took place at 7:39 a.m. from the west coast launch pad in the hamlet of
Tongchang-ri, South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff in Seoul said, citing
South Korean and U.S. intelligence.

However, the launch appeared to have failed, with the rocket splintering
into pieces moments after takeoff, South Korea's Defense Ministry said in
Seoul.

"We suspect the North Korean missile has fallen as it divided into pieces
minutes after liftoff," Defense Ministry spokesman Kim Min-seok told
reporters.

In Washington, a U.S. official also said the launch appeared to have failed.
The official offered no further details and would not discuss the source of
the information.

Tokyo, which was prepared to shoot down any rocket flying over its
territory, also confirmed a launch from North Korea.

"We have confirmed that a certain flying object has been launched and fell
after flying for just over a minute," Japan's Defense Minister Naoki Tanaka
said. He said there was no impact on Japanese territory.

"For all their advanced technology, these rockets are fairly fragile
things," said Brian Weeden, a technical adviser at Secure World Foundation
who is a former Air Force officer at the U.S. Space Command. "You're looking
at a metal cylinder that has fairly thin walls that contains a lot of high
pressure liquid."

In Pyongyang, there was no word about a launch, and at the time, state
television was broadcasting video of popular folk tunes. North Korean
officials said they would make an announcement about the launch "soon."

North Korea had earlier announced it would send a three-stage rocket mounted
with a satellite as part of celebrations honoring late President Kim Il
Sung, whose 100th birthday is being celebrated Sunday.

A failure would be a huge blow to a nation that has staked its pride on a
satellite launch seen as a show of strength amid persistent economic
hardship as North Korea's young new leader, Kim Jong Un, solidifies power
following the death of his father, longtime leader Kim Jong Il, four months
ago.

North Korean space officials said the Unha-3 rocket is meant to send a
satellite into orbit to study crops and weather patterns - its third bid to
launch a satellite since 1998. Officials took foreign journalists to the
west coast site to see the rocket and the Kwangmyongsong-3 satellite Sunday
in a bid to show its transparency amid accusations of defiance.

The United States, Britain, Japan and others have called such a launch a
violation of U.N. resolutions prohibiting North Korea from nuclear and
ballistic missile activity.

Experts say the Unha-3 carrier is the same type of rocket that would be used
to launch a long-range missile aimed at the U.S. and other targets. North
Korea has tested two atomic devices but is not believed to have mastered the
technology needed to mount a nuclear warhead on a long-range missile.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, speaking for the Group of
Eight nations after their foreign ministers met in Washington, said Thursday
that all the members of the bloc agreed to be prepared to take further
action against North Korea in the Security Council if the launch went ahead.

"Pyongyang has a clear choice: It can pursue peace and reap the benefits of
closer ties with the international community, including the United States;
or it can continue to face pressure and isolation," Clinton said.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak was convening an emergency security
meeting, officials said.

According to projections, the first stage of the rocket was to fall into the
ocean off the western coast of South Korea, while a second stage would fall
into waters off the eastern coast of the Philippine island of Luzon.

Weeden said the launch appeared to be a failure of both space and missile
objectives.

"The earlier it breaks up, the less data you've collected, so the less
useful that test is likely to be," he said. "It's very likely that the U.S.
and its allies probably gathered more information about this test than the
North Koreans have."

He said U.S. and other nations had been poised to keep close watch on the
launch to gather intelligence about the state of North Korea's rocket
program.

___

Associated Press writers Hyung-jin Kim and Foster Klug in Seoul and Mari
Yamaguchi and Malcolm Foster in Tokyo contributed to this report.

 

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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 21:31:06 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:31:06 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fate of the DPRK rocket scientists
Message-ID: <BAY160-W654D58BB848828CAD48CEEAA3B0@phx.gbl>


In response to Peter's question about what happens next to officials and scientists connected to the failed DPRK launch, I think this is a question that deserves further exploration. It's not just about the fate of these people. It's all about how the failure of the launch is presented to the world.
It would be tempting to blame external parties for the failure. This would protect people inside the DPRK but also raise tensions. One media source has already suggested this.
There's also a potential dilemma. They would probably like to purge underperforming personnel, but may have trouble recruiting people to replace them. Thus, it could be  difficult for them to execute certain people or send them to the gulag.
Morris Jones, Sydney

 		 	   		  
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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 12 22:22:02 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 02:22:02 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Unha-3 failure - post-launch events
Message-ID: <BAY160-W5AB7F8D62BD6519675F8AAA3B0@phx.gbl>


I'm quite sure that some interesting things are being done under the sea right now. There will certainly be an attempt to inspect the rocket debris and possibly retrieve it. This could be one reason why reports of the impact zone seem to be vague. It's possible that certain nations don't want to tip off the world to the location of the rocket. Then again, it's also possible that the real splashdown point was difficult to determine from tracking. 
Of course, none of this activity will be revealed in public.


Morris Jones, Sydney


 		 	   		  
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 12 23:00:27 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 03:00:27 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fate of the DPRK rocket scientists
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS45ED36A9F334BA4944BE8C9C3B0@phx.gbl>

When the NK soccer team lost in the World Cup in 2010 there was talk of the players being reeducated when they got home. So I swould hate to think what a public rocket failure might mean. How many more years before this failed experiment just falls apart? Larry ---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Morris Jones
Sent: 4/13/2012 1:31:06 AM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fate of the DPRK rocket scientists
In response to Peter's question about what happens next to officials and scientists connected to the failed DPRK launch, I think this is a question that deserves further exploration. It's not just about the fate of these people. It's all about how the failure of the launch is presented to the world.

It would be tempting to blame external parties for the failure. This would protect people inside the DPRK but also raise tensions. One media source has already suggested this.

There's also a potential dilemma. They would probably like to purge underperforming personnel, but may have trouble recruiting people to replace them. Thus, it could be  difficult for them to execute certain people or send them to the gulag.

Morris Jones, Sydney


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From morrisjones at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 13 01:50:22 2012
From: morrisjones at hotmail.com (Morris Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 05:50:22 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
Message-ID: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>


DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its OrbitPyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application satellite Kwangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the failure. -0-


 		 	   		  
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Fri Apr 13 03:10:44 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:10:44 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
In-Reply-To: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <378887ACA91C4D24B305EF9806C81B80@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Has anyone ever seen a photograph of Kwangmyongsong 2?   Or any description of what it was going to do, apart from make "tuneful" noises?

Phillip Clark


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Morris Jones 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 6:50 AM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure


  DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its Orbit
  Pyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application satellite K wangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.

  The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.

  Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the failure. -0-












------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  FPSPACE mailing list
  FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
  http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Fri Apr 13 03:15:37 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:15:37 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
In-Reply-To: <378887ACA91C4D24B305EF9806C81B80@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
References: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
 <378887ACA91C4D24B305EF9806C81B80@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjsJDm+Oq3xRfDvSjuhmB4ZKih6bp3kBODZyi1LOrRu-FQ@mail.gmail.com>

No, there were no images published. There was, IIRC, a postal stamp showing
a satellite, but this one looked not like a real satellite and was most
likely pure fantasy.


2012/4/13 Phillip Clark <phillipclark at btinternet.com>

> **
> Has anyone ever seen a photograph of Kwangmyongsong 2?   Or any
> description of what it was going to do, apart from make "tuneful" noises?
>
> Phillip Clark
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Morris Jones
> *To:* fpspace at friends-partners.org
> *Sent:* Friday, April 13, 2012 6:50 AM
> *Subject:* [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
>
>  DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its Orbit<http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng>
>
> Pyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application
> satellite K wangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in
> Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.
>
> The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.
>
> Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the
> failure. -0-
>
>
> __________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
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From pao.ulivi at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 03:18:01 2012
From: pao.ulivi at gmail.com (Paolo Ulivi)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:18:01 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
In-Reply-To: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAHLHcDpiBUgLNUUTG3EztK0LVOWT=a=NAcDJtuC6F_=qtyOsqw@mail.gmail.com>

just for trivia: I was wondering when was the first time a failed
launch was acknowledged by the former Soviet Union


2012/4/13 Morris Jones <morrisjones at hotmail.com>:
> DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its Orbit
>
> Pyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application
> satellite K wangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in
> Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.
>
> The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.
>
> Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the
> failure. -0-
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>


From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Fri Apr 13 05:28:26 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:28:26 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure
In-Reply-To: <CAHLHcDpiBUgLNUUTG3EztK0LVOWT=a=NAcDJtuC6F_=qtyOsqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY160-W1089324B4F909093180325AA3B0@phx.gbl>
 <CAHLHcDpiBUgLNUUTG3EztK0LVOWT=a=NAcDJtuC6F_=qtyOsqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1934697D228947B184C4A641D9946DC1@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Off the top of my head I cannot remember.   Was it the Soyuz 18-1 launch 
abort?

I know that there was a Chinese book in the late 1980s that logged their 
FB-1 and CZ-2A launch failures, but the CZ-2A failure in November 1974 was 
known before the book appeared.

Phillip Clark



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paolo Ulivi" <pao.ulivi at gmail.com>
Cc: <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Official North Korean statement on Unha-3 failure


> just for trivia: I was wondering when was the first time a failed
> launch was acknowledged by the former Soviet Union
>
>
> 2012/4/13 Morris Jones <morrisjones at hotmail.com>:
>> DPRK?s Satellite Fails to Enter Its Orbit
>>
>> Pyongyang, April 13 (KCNA) -- The DPRK launched its first application
>> satellite K wangmyongsong-3 at the Sohae Satellite Launching Station in
>> Cholsan County, North Phyongan Province at 07:38:55 a.m. on Friday.
>>
>> The earth observation satellite failed to enter its preset orbit.
>>
>> Scientists, technicians and experts are now looking into the cause of the
>> failure. -0-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FPSPACE mailing list
>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> 




From pjp961 at svol.net  Fri Apr 13 12:20:03 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:20:03 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Report: Viking I lander may have found evidence of life
	on Mars after all
Message-ID: <7458AC42D5754DEE95368B99BCAD8EBC@your94e826b122>

Via the Daily Mail (UK)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2129152/Its-99-certain-life-M
ars-Shock-finding-scientists-analyse-soil-samples-Seventies-Viking-lander.ht
ml

 

 


'It's 99% certain there is life on Mars': Shock finding as scientists
re-analyse soil samples from Seventies Viking lander


*	Soil samples from Viking 1 lander which visited Mars in 1976 
*	Mathematical analysis shows strong sign of organics 
*	Samples had been dismissed as contaminated 
*	'99% probability of life' claims one scientist

By Rob
<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Rob+Waugh>
Waugh

PUBLISHED: 03:08 EST, 13 April 2012 | UPDATED: 03:49 EST, 13 April 2012 

In July 1976, the Viking 1 probe touched down on Mars and failed to find
traces of life - but now, three decades later, scientists think the
experiment was flawed. 

VIking 1 did find evidence of extraterrestrial microbes in soil samples from
the Red Planet.

Mathematical analysis of the samples concluded that salts in the soil on
Mars 'threw off' initial estimates - and that the soil samples show strong
evidence of microbial life.

The new analysis looked for 'complexity' in the samples - an indication of
life. To the surprise of the scientists, they found it.

'This suggests a robust biological response,' say the researchers, from the
University of Siena and California's Keck Institute. 

'These analyses support the interpretation that the Viking LR experiment did
detect extant microbial life on Mars.'

The reassessment was prompted by the discovery of 'perchlorates' in the soil
at the landing site of another Mars lander, Phoenix, in 2008.

The presence of the chemicals in Viking's samples had led scientists to
conclude the samples were contaminated. 

The scientists behind the experiment remain divided over how conclusive the
evidence for life on Mars is. 

Christopher McKay of Nasa's Ames Research Centre said, in an interview with
Discovery News, 'Finding organics is not evidence of life or evidence of
past life. It's just evidence for organics.' 

'The ultimate proof is to take a video of a Martian bacteria. They should
send a microscope - watch the bacteria move,' said Josheph Miller of USC's
Keck School of Medicine.

'On the basis of what we've done so far, I'd say I'm 99 percent sure there's
life there.' 

Future Mars missions may be able to settle the question.

One forthcoming unmanned mission is the new Mars Science Laboratory rover,
called Curiosity, scheduled for launch in November. 

The $2.5 billion nuclear-powered machine will land on Mars' surface with a
suite of 10 science instruments to try to determine if conditions are
favorable for life. 

Another key Mars mission is scheduled for 2016. Called the ExoMars Trace Gas
Orbiter, it will carry five science instruments and will study gases in
Mars' atmosphere, including methane, for evidence of biological or
geological activity. 

'The instruments on that atmospheric mission have a factor of 100 to 1,000
increase in sensitivity over what is currently available from Mars orbiters
or from ground observations,' said Mark Allen, Ph.D., who is the U.S.
project scientist for the 2016 Mars mission. 






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From pjp961 at svol.net  Fri Apr 13 14:21:05 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:21:05 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Here's a question....about the NK launch failure
Message-ID: <138CCC68B2F141BBBAA74411E29F451D@your94e826b122>

Could it be possible that the rocket is breaking apart as it enters into, or
passes through maximum aerodynamic pressure?

 

Is that possible?

 

It failed so early on..

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From pjp961 at svol.net  Fri Apr 13 16:34:59 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:34:59 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] NK launch failure...update (Perhaps another long-range
	rocket test)
Message-ID: <ED3D5CB90A754D68956D31574DA38E97@your94e826b122>

>From the Daily Mail (UK)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2129063/North-Korea-fires-long-range
-rocket-sparking-emergency-meeting-South-Korea-reports-suggest-blew-90-secon
d-later.html

 

 

US sources confirm it exploded after it "flared brightly" 90 seconds into
the launch.

 


Not quite ready for world domination yet then: North Korea launches
long-range rocket... but it blows up 90 SECONDS after take-off (so what went
wrong?)


*	Embarrassing moment for North Korea as long-range rocket shatters
minutes after launch 
*	Leader Kim Jong-Un defiant as he unveils of statue of his father
intended to cap 'triumph' of rocket launch  
*	Cost of the operation was estimated at $850million, enough to buy
2.5million tonnes of corn and 1.4million tonnes of rice
*	White House described launch as 'provocative' 
*	Fears rogue nation will now push ahead with nuclear tests
*	The U.S. and South Korea believe the launch may be a cover for
testing a long-range ballistic missile 
*	New video emerges believed to show wreckage of crashed rocket

By Daniel
<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daniel+Miller>
Miller

PUBLISHED: 18:33 EST, 12 April 2012 | UPDATED: 10:39 EST, 13 April 2012 



North Korea's rocket scientists have been forced to hang their heads in
collective shame following the spectacular failure of their latest
long-range missile which blew up moments after launch. 

Military leaders had hoped to show off their nation's technological prowess
by blasting a satellite into orbit in what the West had called a covert test
of missile technology and a flagrant violation of international resolutions.

But in deeply embarrassing episode for the communist country and its new
leader Kim Jong-Un, the Unha-3, or 'Milky Way', rocket exploded 90 seconds
after blast off and came crashing down into the Yellow Sea.

According to U.S. defence officials, the rocket flared brightly and
apparently exploded about 90 seconds into flight.

In the past North Korea have always declared their launches successful
despite evidence to the contrary from the international community.

But there are expected to be severe repercussions following the failure of
the mission which was supposed to mark the 100th anniversary of the birth of
national founder Kim Il-sung.

'This is the first crisis for the new leader that has just taken over,' said
Lee Jong-won, a professor at Waseda University in Tokyo.

'It is inevitable that they will look to find who is responsible for the
failure, and I wonder what the treatment will be for those in the military
and the hard-line officers who have pressed for the launch.'

North Korea had planned to make 2012 the year in which it became a 'strong
and prosperous nation' and the launch was part of a programme to burnish its
credentials.

It even, unusually, invited foreign media in to cover the birthday
celebrations and showed them the launch site.

Kim was named First Secretary of the Workers Party of Korea on Wednesday, as
he accumulates titles and posts similar to those held by his father, Kim
Jong-il who died in December.

The country is one of the most tightly controlled states on earth, with no
free media and a tight grip on its population. 

Worryingly some spectators have suggested the failure will prompt North
Korea to press ahead with its third nuclear test to show its military
strength.

A senior South Korean defence ministry official told a parliamentary
hearing: 'The possibility of an additional long-range rocket launch or a
nuclear test, as well as a military provocation to strengthen internal
solidarity is very high.

'The two Koreas are divided by the world's most militarised border and
remain technically at war after an armistice ended the Korean War in 1953.'


The launch came just weeks after a 'Leap Year' deal that saw Washington
agree to provide food aid. Among the promises Pyongyang made in return was
not to launch any long range rocket or undertake nuclear tests.

In response to the launch the United States has now cancelled a planned food
aid deal with the rogue state.

A White House official, aboard Air Force One, told reporters: 'We are not
going forward with any agreement to provide them with assistance.'

There is likely to be pressure from leading countries to impose more
sanctions on the North. But it poses difficulties for China which will
likely resist further sanctions even though its own diplomacy failed to stop
the rocket launch.

'After giving so much aid to North Korea, it still did not listen to China,
and this hurt China-North Korea relations and erodes domestic support in its
continued support of North Korea,' said Shen Dingli, a professor and
regional security expert at Shanghai's Fudan University.

'This also undermines confidence in the U.S.-China relationship, and whether
China had done enough to persuade the North. So, China is also a loser, but
not as big a loser as if North Korea succeeded in its launch,' he said.

A tough push for sanctions, which Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda
pledged, could lead a show of defiance from the North such as a nuclear
test, or an attack like the one in 2010 that saw it shell a South Korean
island, killing civilians.

'Rather than any conventional provocation, I think North Korea will watch
what U.S. and South Korea are doing and prepare for a nuclear test,' said
Chung Young-chul, a professor at Sogang University's Graduate School of
Public Policy.

The United States and Japan said the rocket, which they claimed was a
disguised missile test and the North said was to put a satellite into orbit,
crashed into the sea after travelling a much shorter distance than a
previous North Korean launch.

Its failure immediately raised questions over the impoverished North's
reclusive leadership which maintains one of the world's largest standing
armies but which cannot feed its people without outside aid, largely from
its solitary powerful backer, China.

'There is no question that the failed launch turns speculation toward the
ramifications for the leadership in Pyongyang: a fireworks display gone bad
on the biggest day of the year,' said Scott Snyder of the Council on Foreign
Relations.

In a highly unusual move, the North, which still claims success with a 2009
satellite that others say failed, admitted in a state television broadcast
seen by its 23 million people that the latest satellite had not made it into
orbit.

The failure is the first major and very public challenge for the third of
the Kim dynasty to rule North Korea just months into the leadership of a man
believed to be in his late 20s.

'It could be indication of subtle change in the North Korean leadership in
how they handle these things, something that may be different from the
past,' said Baek Seung-joo of the Korea Institute of Defense Analyses a
thinktank affiliated with South Korean Defence Ministry.

'I mean it would have been unthinkable for them to admit this kind of
failure in the past, something that could be seen as an international
humiliation. The decision to have come out with the admission had to come
from Kim Jong-un.'

Embarrassingly, the rocket flew for just a few minutes covering a little
over 100km to explode over a sea separating the Korean peninsula and China,
far less than the last rocket in 2009 that travelled 3,800km, alarming Japan
which it over-flew.

The launch is in breach of United Nations Security Council sanctions and
drew condemnation from the United States, Russia, South Korea and Japan and
threats to tighten already harsh sanctions aimed at stopping Pyongyang
developing nuclear weapons.

The concern is that North Korea is using launches to perfect the kind of
technology that would enable it to build a missile capable of delivering a
nuclear warhead to the United States.

North Korea has repeatedly defended its right to launch rockets for what it
says are peaceful purposes and may have invested hundreds of millions of
dollars in the failed launch.

China, the North's main backer, again appealed for 'calm', although its
failure to dissuade Pyongyang from undertaking the launch despite propping
up the ailing and impoverished state, showed the limitations of its
diplomacy, analysts said.

'Despite the failure of its attempted missile launch, North Korea's
provocative action threatens regional security, violates international law
and contravenes its own recent commitments,' White House spokesman Jay
Carney said in a statement.

Foreign ministers of the Group of Eight leading industrial nations condemned
the launch as in breach of U.N. Security Council resolutions.

The North American Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, said the first stage
fell into the sea west of South Korea, and the remainder was deemed to have
failed.

'No debris fell on land,' NORAD said. 'At no time were the missile or the
resultant debris a threat.

The U.N. Security Council will meet to discuss a possible response to North
Korea's rocket launch today, said council diplomats. 

Earlier this week U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice said the
15-nation council should 'respond credibly' to a North Korean missile
launch. 

Western diplomats say that the most China, a permanent veto-wielding council
member and North Korea's protector, would accept is a rebuke of Pyongyang.


New sanctions, they said on condition of anonymity, are out of the question.






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From pjp961 at svol.net  Fri Apr 13 17:52:27 2012
From: pjp961 at svol.net (Peter Pesavento)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:52:27 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Crash point of Luna 18
Message-ID: <6C6F9ACB0D684E579E1F29D891D3C04E@your94e826b122>

Are the coordinates of Luna 18's crash point (via the Russian disclosures)
is 03-34S, 056-30E  ?

 

Is this correct?  Or incorrect?

 

If you know, please inform.  You can even PM me on this.

 

Thanks.

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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Tue Apr 17 06:13:35 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (jameseoberg at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 10:13:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [FPSPACE] More on NK launch failure
In-Reply-To: <95E7BDED47084FBBA15DFDDA61763F85@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <1381772618.977426.1334657615892.JavaMail.root@sz0079a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>




In Beijing now, just arrived from Pyongyang, back in Houston Wednesday afternoon. 

I've posted a lot of our NBC NorKorean space debacle stories on my home page www.jamesoberg.com 





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From kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za  Tue Apr 17 07:46:18 2012
From: kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za (Keith Gottschalk)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 13:46:18 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] both Koreas still struggling to launch
Message-ID: <4F8D742A020000A60001C4F8@uwc.ac.za>

Dear JimO,
 
  congrats on being able to tour the DPRK space launch pad, & thanks for your reports.
 
    As all of us here know, spaceflight is unforgiving. While political rhetoric has its place (aspirational & inspirational) there can be no substitute for obsessive quality control checks, at every stage from components to subsystems to static tests of the entire assembly, measuring all the vibrations & resonances. I've read conflicting accounts of this rocket "suddenly flaring" versus the 1st stage completed its burn, but the 2nd stage never started up.  If the latter is true, certainly it was the case that in the 1950s that US rocket engineers used to be concerned that an upper stage might not ignite.
 
     It is an interesting contrast between the DPRK announcing a fixed date for launch whatever else might happen, versus how SpaceX repeatedly postponed, November, December, January, February, March, April, May, their Falcon 9 - Dragon docking with the ISS. The latter knows that getting it right overrides any other scheduling factor. You were also right to  highlight the point that the North Koreans let all reporters up so close, in their normal clothes, to the satellite. In South Africa's clean room at Houwteq, even when there is no satellite in it, we are not allowed into the room until after you have put on surgeons' clothes, including the hair cover.
 
     Once all the political huffing & puffing dies down, it seems that the North Korean rocket would be more than three decades obsolete if deployed as a missile. It is not solid propellant. One report is that it takes "two or three days" to be fueled. That is, it would be a sitting duck for USAF UAVs. 
 
     The three DPRK failures in a row also contrast with Iran's satellite launch on was it their 2nd attempt. Clearly, they subordinated launch dates to doing quality control checks. Of course, South Korea also had its heartbreaking failure. We'll now have to see if the next country to successfully launch will be the so long delayed Brazil?
 
- Keith
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From drwoods at stny.rr.com  Wed Apr 18 15:21:13 2012
From: drwoods at stny.rr.com (David R. Woods)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:21:13 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
Message-ID: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>

I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic 
Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to 
save expense, time, and certification: 
http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf


From robert_law at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 18 15:45:09 2012
From: robert_law at yahoo.com (Robert Law)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 12:45:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1334778309.57079.YahooMailClassic@web162605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I am sure that Skylab used Gemini components like the EVA hatch ? perhaps this was a door which came from a Gemini space craft which had not flown in space , the early Shuttle missions used the Apollo TV cameras with colour wheel !?
regards
Robert

--- On Wed, 4/18/12, David R. Woods <drwoods at stny.rr.com> wrote:

From: David R. Woods <drwoods at stny.rr.com>
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 8:21 PM

I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to save expense, time, and certification: http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From dsfportree at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 18 19:39:59 2012
From: dsfportree at hotmail.com (David Portree)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 17:39:59 -0600
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>


Borrowing bits seems to have happened quite a bit, and not just on the human side. Magellan was a Frankenstein's Monster spacecraft, with a Voyager backup dish antenna and main bus structure, plus a Mariner 9 backup star tracker (the oldest item it included - from 1971!), among other bits and pieces. That was how they managed to cut costs to save VOIR after Reagan's attack on spaceflight in 1981-1982 (which he subsequently thought better of after the Shuttle started flying - space made for great photo ops). 

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:21:13 -0400
> From: drwoods at stny.rr.com
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
> 
> I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic 
> Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to 
> save expense, time, and certification: 
> http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
 		 	   		  
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From john.b.charles at nasa.gov  Wed Apr 18 19:54:42 2012
From: john.b.charles at nasa.gov (Charles, John B. (JSC-SA211))
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:54:42 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>

Plus remember that Gemini 6 contributed its re-entry control system to the Agena-replacement ATDA flown as a target for Gemini 9. (And Tom Stafford was on both 6 and 9.)

JBC
Sent from my iPhone.
Please forgive typos.

On Apr 18, 2012, at 18:40, "David Portree" <dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Borrowing bits seems to have happened quite a bit, and not just on the human side. Magellan was a Frankenstein's Monster spacecraft, with a Voyager backup dish antenna and main bus structure, plus a Mariner 9 backup star tracker (the oldest item it included - from 1971!), among other bits and pieces. That was how they managed to cut costs to save VOIR after Reagan's attack on spaceflight in 1981-1982 (which he subsequently thought better of after the Shuttle started flying - space made for great photo ops).

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com<mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>
dportree at usgs.gov<mailto:dportree at usgs.gov>

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/




> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:21:13 -0400
> From: drwoods at stny.rr.com<mailto:drwoods at stny.rr.com>
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org<mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
>
> I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic
> Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to
> save expense, time, and certification:
> http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org<mailto:FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org>
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org<mailto:FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org>
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From clj at panix.com  Wed Apr 18 20:25:45 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:25:45 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>
 <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <20120418202545.173b4212@cloyd>

On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:54:42 -0500 "Charles, John B. (JSC-SA211)"
<john.b.charles at nasa.gov> wrote:

> Plus remember that Gemini 6 contributed its re-entry control system to the
> Agena-replacement ATDA flown as a target for Gemini 9. (And Tom Stafford
> was on both 6 and 9.)

And I remember thinking, when Apollo 10 flew, that lunar orbit would be a
particularly disasterous place for something to prevent him docking with his
target for the third flight in a row (and Cernan was on Gemini 9 as well as
Apollo 10, so he also had had a jinxed history when trying to dock).


From dsfportree at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 18 20:30:36 2012
From: dsfportree at hotmail.com (David Portree)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:30:36 -0600
Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
In-Reply-To: <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>,
 <SNT133-W1DA09DBEA3E83FE8A04C6D53C0@phx.gbl>,
 <F51E0D48-D2D2-44F1-B995-D830348DD90A@nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <SNT133-W11138C2B9675394F63DFFCD53D0@phx.gbl>


Hadn't heard of that one! 

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



From: john.b.charles at nasa.gov
To: dsfportree at hotmail.com
CC: drwoods at stny.rr.com; fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:54:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels

Plus remember that Gemini 6 contributed its re-entry control system to the Agena-replacement ATDA flown as a target for Gemini 9. (And Tom Stafford was on both 6 and 9.) 

JBCSent from my iPhone. Please forgive typos. 
On Apr 18, 2012, at 18:40, "David Portree" <dsfportree at hotmail.com> wrote:





Borrowing bits seems to have happened quite a bit, and not just on the human side. Magellan was a Frankenstein's Monster spacecraft, with a Voyager backup dish antenna and main bus structure, plus a Mariner 9 backup star tracker (the oldest item it included - from 1971!), among other bits and pieces. That was how they managed to cut costs to save VOIR after Reagan's attack on spaceflight in 1981-1982 (which he subsequently thought better of after the Shuttle started flying - space made for great photo ops). 

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:21:13 -0400
> From: drwoods at stny.rr.com
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Apollo 15: The Case of the Missing Panels
> 
> I came across an interesting article about how parts from historic 
> Apollo artifacts were taken from one spacecraft and used on another to 
> save expense, time, and certification: 
> http://www.space1.com/pdf/news0704.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
 		 	   		  
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From siddiqi at fordham.edu  Wed Apr 18 23:39:08 2012
From: siddiqi at fordham.edu (Asif Siddiqi)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>


Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).

He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.

Asif Siddiqi

http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
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From tirosspace at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 19 02:28:35 2012
From: tirosspace at hotmail.com (Tiros SpaceInformation)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:28:35 +0800
Subject: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek
In-Reply-To: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>,
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>


I do not know if anybody has reported this, but Antonin Vitek, the author of the Space40 website, passed away on 28 February 2012. 

Jos Heyman http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz


 From: siddiqi at fordham.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk


Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).
He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.
Asif Siddiqi
http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From dav.shayler at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Apr 19 05:14:54 2012
From: dav.shayler at tiscali.co.uk (dav.shayler at tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:14:54 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <18498277.316001334826894268.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>

It is so sad to hear of the passing of Dennis, his 1990 Almanac was a 
handy publication for the presentation of the key facts of each Soviet 
mission in order and in one volume. Another sad loss to Soviet 
sleuthing - and on Cosmonautics Day too.....



Dave Shayler  



>----Original Message----

>From: siddiqi at fordham.edu

>Date: 19/04/2012 4:39 

>To: <fpspace at friends-partners.org>

>Subj: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk

>

>

>Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among 
many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space 
Flight (1990).

>

>He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met 
him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing 
with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He 
had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including 
myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.

>

>Asif Siddiqi

>

>http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true_______________________________________________

>FPSPACE mailing list

>FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>





From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 19 06:29:12 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 06:29:12 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] FW: [New post] Envisioning Limits: Outer Space and the
	End of Utopia
In-Reply-To: <7858997.3191.0@wordpress.com>
References: <7858997.3191.0@wordpress.com>
Message-ID: <BAY170-W106D5AC1613E997706CBBC9C3D0@phx.gbl>



 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:18:04 +0000
To: ljk4 at msn.com
From: donotreply at wordpress.com
Subject: [New post] Envisioning Limits: Outer Space and the End of Utopia




	
	WordPress.com
	
	





	
		
			
				
					
						
							
								
									
										
											
												
											
										

										
											
												
													
														New post on Roger Launius's Blog													
												
												
													
												
											
										

										
											
												
													
														
															
																																	
																		
																			
																				
																			
																			
																				Envisioning Limits: Outer Space and the End of Utopia
																				by launiusr
																			
																		
																	
																
																
																																			I am attending the conference, "Envisioning Limits: Outer Space and the End of Utopia," sponsored by the Emmy Noether Research Group, Friedrich-Meinecke-Institut, at the Freie Universit?t Berlin. It is a very engaging program and between April 19 and 21, 2012, we will consider a wide range of ideas about this subject of astroculture. The program is below.
THURSDAY, 19 April 2012
09.00 Introduction
Alexander C.T. Geppert, William R. Macauley and Daniel Brandau: The 1970s, Western Europe and the Delineation of Space
09.30 Feature Presentation I
Martin Collins: Ambiguities of the 1970s. Spaceflight and the Problem of Historically Interpreting the In-Between Decade
11.00 Panel I: Transitions
Chair: Paul Nolte
Andrew Jenks: Transnational History and Human Space Flight
Doug Millard: Were the 1970s a Period of Transition for the History of Britain?s Exploration of Space?
14.00 Panel II: Pictures
Chair: Thomas P. Weber
Robert Poole: '2001: A Space Odyssey.' Space Travel and the Ends of Progress
Ralf B?low: The X Files. Reading a West German Sci-Tech Magazine from 1969 to 1973
16.00 Panel III: Laws
Chair: Peter Becker
Luca Follis: Beyond Law?s Frontier. The Normative Imaginary of Outer Space
Virgiliu Pop: The Moon Agreement and the Beginning of Utopia
19.00 Feature Presentation II
Agnes Meyer-Brandis: Space Traveling. A Performance-Lecture Examining Real Utopian Aspects of Interplanetary Exchange of Idea and Matter
FRIDAY, 20 April 2012
09.00 Feature Presentation III
Chair: William R. Macauley
John Krige: Blowback, Lift Off. The Rise of Ariane and the Decline of US Monopoly of Access to Space in the 1970s
10.15 Panel IV: Politics
Chair: Etienne Benson
Matthew H. Hersch: 'On the Edge of Forever.' 1972 and the New American Space Consensus
Neil M. Maher: Ground Control. Space Technology, Environmentalism, and D?tente
Across the Developing World
13.00 Panel V: Texts
Chair: Matthias Schwartz
Florian Kl?ger: Reading into the Stars. Cosmology and Self-Reflexivity in the British Novel of the 1970s
Aleksandra Idzior: Images of Extraterrestrial Life and Designs for 'Out-of-Space' in Poland during the 1960s and 1970s
15.00 Panel VI: Aesthetics
Chair: Claudia Schm?lders
Christina Vatsella: Artworks in Orbit. The Satellite Art Projects
Thore Bj?rnvig: Unlimited Play in a World of Limits. The Lego Classic Space Theme, 1978-80
17.00 Panel VII: Prospects
Chair: Debbora Battaglia
Philippe Ailleris: Red Soil, Phonograph Records and United Nations Resolution 33/426. Our 1970s Extraterrestrial Heritage
Janet Vertesi and Lisa Messeri: The Greatest Mission Never Flown. Mars Sample Return, Terrestrial Planet Finder, and the Limits of Utopia
SATURDAY, 21 April 2012
09.00 Panel VIII: Habitats
Chair: Thomas Brandstetter
W. Patrick McCray: Gerard O'Neill?s Visioneering of the 'High Frontier'
Gonzalo Mun?var: Space Colonies and their Critics
11.00 Panel IX: Transcendence
Chair: Helmuth Trischler
Peter J. Westwick: From the Club of Rome to Star Wars. The Era of Limits, Space Colonization, and the Origins of the Strategic Defense Initiative
Roger D. Launius: Human Spaceflight as Religion in the Aftermath of the Space Race
14.00 Conclusion
Chair: Alexander C.T. Geppert
David A. Kirby: General Comment
16.00 End
																																	

																																	
																		launiusr | April 19, 2012 at 8:17 am | Tags: 1960s, 1970s, American exceptionalism, Apollo, astroculture, cold war, Earth science, History, international relations, International Space Station, Moon, Moon race, U.S. Civil Space
 | Categories: Apollo, Applications Satellites, Cold War Competition, Earth Science, History, International Space Station, Lunar Exploration, Politics, Science, Space, Space Shuttle
 | URL: http://wp.me/pwYu1-Pt																	
																
																																	
																		
																			
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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Thu Apr 19 09:39:13 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:39:13 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <015BA3B5355249EB8B681E15B44E11F0@ownerfbf08f40c>

I join the chorus of lamentations. I gave a copy of his book to Aleksey Leonov at
Baykonur in 1995, and the following morning he told me, "Now I know where 
I can go for the facts I can no longer remember."


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Asif Siddiqi 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:39 PM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk




  Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).


  He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.


  Asif Siddiqi


  http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  FPSPACE mailing list
  FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
  http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From vsa at panorama.com.ru  Thu Apr 19 10:11:45 2012
From: vsa at panorama.com.ru (Sergey A. Voevodin)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:11:45 +0400
Subject: [FPSPACE]  Dennis Newkirk
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <015BA3B5355249EB8B681E15B44E11F0@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <000e01cd1e36$5a63f560$cf52fea9@first>

The very sad news, I spoke with Dennis. A wonderful man he was!

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: James E Oberg 
  To: Asif Siddiqi ; fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 5:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk


  I join the chorus of lamentations. I gave a copy of his book to Aleksey Leonov at
  Baykonur in 1995, and the following morning he told me, "Now I know where 
  I can go for the facts I can no longer remember."


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Asif Siddiqi 
    To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
    Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:39 PM
    Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk




    Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).


    He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.


    Asif Siddiqi


    http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    FPSPACE mailing list
    FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
    http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  FPSPACE mailing list
  FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
  http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From cpvick at globalsecurity.org  Thu Apr 19 10:51:26 2012
From: cpvick at globalsecurity.org (Charles Vick)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:51:26 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <003301cd1e3b$e5c81050$b15830f0$@globalsecurity.org>

It is indeed sad to hear of Dennis's passing.

I remember so well that he made it to Moscow FPSpace tour only to get too
sick to say and had to return.  He tried

Let all remember that life is far too short so hug your love ones for we are
all here but for a very short period of time.

Peace be with Dennis in the Lord's ship of State

Peace for the love ones still with us all.

 

cpvick

 

From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org
[mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Asif Siddiqi
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:39 PM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk

 

 

Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many
publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).

 

He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him
around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with
each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a
keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with
his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.

 

Asif Siddiqi

 

http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitI
D=1061
<http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obit
ID=1061&keepThis=true> &keepThis=true

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From dokter.nuyens at telenet.be  Thu Apr 19 12:02:30 2012
From: dokter.nuyens at telenet.be (Zeger Nuyens)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:02:30 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
Message-ID: <4F903716.2080502@telenet.be>

As a lucky owner of his Almanac of Soviet Manned Spaceflight I can only 
be very sad hearing the news of his passing.
Every time I update my docs on Soviet Manned Spaceflight, I still look 
in his book to see if I got it right.
He will be missed.
My thoughts for his family and friends.

Zeger Nuyens


From dominic_phelan at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 19 13:24:32 2012
From: dominic_phelan at hotmail.com (Dominic Phelan)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:24:32 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>,
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
Message-ID: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>


Dennis was kind enough to send me some copies of his 'Russian Aerospace Guide' newsletter when I contacted him in the mid-1990s. In pre-Internet Ireland they were certainly a great help in my search for more information on Soviet spaceflight and I will always be thankful for that help. Although I didn't know him personally I'm still very saddened at his passing at such a young age.

Dominic Phelan
 
 



From: siddiqi at fordham.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk




Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).


He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.


Asif Siddiqi


http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
_______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com  Thu Apr 19 13:34:12 2012
From: rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com (Rui Barbosa)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:34:12 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAHkaAPd1TfKSin28rC7ezuuPs99hdWevnB8E=EVfSv7930wqBw@mail.gmail.com>

Many years ago on the old days, Dennis was one of those names of the God's
of Knowledge about Soviet Spaceflight. back then it was hard for a young
boy in Portugal do get hand of those amazing books that told the secrets
many of us want to read about, Dennis will be missed and I thank him very
much for all his work about Soviet Cosmonautics.

-- 
Rui C. Barbosa
Braga - Portugal
www.zenite.nu/orbita
www.carris-geres.blogspot.com
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From bergcvd at zonnet.nl  Thu Apr 19 14:13:10 2012
From: bergcvd at zonnet.nl (Kees van den Berg)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:13:10 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis R. Newkirk
Message-ID: <7C8654E45F60409AB7CF74704E614185@kema>

Born April 14, 1964, in Princeton, Indiana, Dennis passed away, after battling mesothelioma, Thursday, April 12, 2012, at Good Shepherd Hospital, Barrington.

He graduated from the School of Technology at Purdue University, was a staff writer at several magazines and was an avid researcher in aerospace history. He wrote the "Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight," "1996 Russian Space Review," "Soviet Space Planes" and "The Repair of Salyut 7."

Dennis was a Distinguished Member of Technical Staff at Motorola Solutions, where he had been employed since 1991. He was a technical expert in designing security systems and was an inventor who held more than 10 patents. His inventions are used daily around the world, providing secure communications, and his efforts have resulted in a long list of customers who remember his for his dedication in service and his interest in the security of our country.

Dennis was a wonderful father and a very loving husband and son.

Survivors include his wife, Ronghui "Jenny" Yang; a son, Ryan Newkirk; his mother, Ruth Newkirk of Hope, Indiana; and a brother, David Newkirk.

He was preceded in death by his father, Lanson Newkirk.

From: The Republic (news paper) Columbus, Indiana and Chicago Suburban Daily Herald --- April 18, 2012   

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 2709 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

The Professional version does not have this message
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From dsfportree at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 19 14:56:13 2012
From: dsfportree at hotmail.com (David Portree)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:56:13 -0600
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>, ,
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>,
 <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT133-W31C3C0910850CB0D780636D53D0@phx.gbl>


This is a shock. I'm so sorry for his family and many friends.
Dennis' ALMANAC helped inspire my MIR HARDWARE HERITAGE (NASA, 1995). 
Incidentally, I always had the idea that he was older. Knowing he was 28 when he published his ALMANAC increases my respect for him.

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



From: dominic_phelan at hotmail.com
To: siddiqi at fordham.edu; fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:24:32 +0000
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk





Dennis was kind enough to send me some copies of his 'Russian Aerospace Guide' newsletter when I contacted him in the mid-1990s. In pre-Internet Ireland they were certainly a great help in my search for more information on Soviet spaceflight and I will always be thankful for that help. Although I didn't know him personally I'm still very saddened at his passing at such a young age.


Dominic Phelan

 

 




From: siddiqi at fordham.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk




Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight (1990).


He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.


Asif Siddiqi


http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
_______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From brharvey at iol.ie  Thu Apr 19 17:54:04 2012
From: brharvey at iol.ie (Brian Harvey)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:54:04 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE]  Dennis Newkirk
References: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6605C354-515A-414C-8F02-12E87E3B77CD@iol.ie>

I was unaware Dennis Newkirk had been ill and was very taken aback by his passing.
Many years ago I asked him for and he quickly sent me his 'Russian Space Review' which like all his other work was full of interesting detail, thoroughly researched and footnoted and still stands as an important reference document.  Like others, I regret not having had the chance to meet him in person.

Brian Harvey
Dublin, ireland

From rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com  Thu Apr 19 18:15:28 2012
From: rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com (Rui Barbosa)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:15:28 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek
In-Reply-To: <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any obituary in english available?

2012/4/19 Tiros SpaceInformation <tirosspace at hotmail.com>

>  I do not know if anybody has reported this, but Antonin Vitek, the author
> of the Space40 website, passed away on 28 February 2012.
>
> Jos Heyman
>
>
>
> http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz
> ******
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: siddiqi at fordham.edu
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:08 -0400
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
>
>
> Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author (among
> many publications) of the wonderful *Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight
> * (1990).
>
> He was a really great guy. Generous with his time and resources. I met him
> around '92 or so, and we got to be good friends soon after, sharing with
> each other everything we collected on the Soviet space program. He had a
> keen eye for Soviet space history and inspired many (including myself) with
> his generosity and good humor. He will be missed.
>
> Asif Siddiqi
>
>
> http://www.davenportfamily.com/UserFiles/Tools/Obituaries/showObit.cfm?obitID=1061&keepThis=true
>
> _______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>


-- 
Rui C. Barbosa
Braga - Portugal
www.zenite.nu/orbita
www.carris-geres.blogspot.com
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From bhen at telenet.be  Thu Apr 19 18:24:43 2012
From: bhen at telenet.be (Bart Hendrickx)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:24:43 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] 1988 Mir emergency disclosed
Message-ID: <000901cd1e7b$387ba390$a972eab0$@be>

The latest issue of "Novosti kosmonavtiki" carries an interview with former
cosmonaut Vladimir Titov. In the interview Titov describes a hitherto
undisclosed emergency that arose aboard Mir in March 1988 during his
year-long mission with Musa Manarov.  The problems began after Mission
Control had sent commands to change the orientation of the station. The crew
noticed something was amiss when the Sun showed up in a porthole where it
wasn't supposed to be visible. It turned out that the solar panels were no
longer facing the Sun and the station's batteries were slowly draining. When
the crew reported they were losing power and asked to check the orientation,
Mission Control responded everything was fine. They got the same response
during the following orbit, Mission Control saying the reorientation would
take a while. Unknown to mission controllers, they had sent an erroneous
command to the station.

 

After this pass there were five orbits where the station didn't pass over
Soviet territory and communications with Mission Control were impossible.
When they entered the Earth's shadow over the Indian Ocean, the crew got a
"minimal voltage" alarm and critical systems began shutting down. The
station went dark and  on board it was "dead silent", as Titov describes it.
As a result of the power loss, the magnetic suspension system of the Kvant
module's control moment gyros ("gyrodines") no longer worked, causing the
rapidly rotating gyros to come into contact with their housing as they began
despinning. This caused some loud bangs, which had the crew very worried.
Specialists would later tell them that the gyros could have "ripped the
station to pieces" and that they had been very lucky.

 

Subsequently, the crew tried to contact Mission Control with the radio
systems of Soyuz, but there was no response. Titov then slowly improved the
station's orientation by activating the Soyuz thrusters, with Manarov
looking out one of Mir's portholes and passing on the necessary commands.
This gave them enough power for lights and ventilators to turn on again.
However, the station's computers were down and the Elektron oxygen
generation system had failed, forcing the crew to use solid-fuel oxygen
generators ("candles") for about two months. Many other systems had broken
down as well because of the power failure and although some spare parts were
available aboard Mir many had to be delivered by Progress cargo vehicles.
Apparently, things didn't return to normal until the launch of the
Soviet-Bulgarian visiting crew in June 1988. 

 

One wonders if the lessons learned from this emergency situation were passed
on to later Mir crews. A similar power failure occurred aboard Mir during
the Euromir-94 mission in October 1994  and the crew didn't initially
contact Mission Control via Soyuz or take the initiative to use the Soyuz
thrusters to restore orientation. When the same scenario repeated itself
after the Progress collision in 1997, it was by all accounts Michael Foale
and not Tsibliyev or Lazutkin who came up with the idea of activating the
Soyuz thrusters.

 

It has taken almost twenty-five years for this story to come to light and
we're talking about a mission that took place in the early years of
"glasnost". How many more such revelations can we expect? Is this just the
tip of the iceberg?

 

Bart Hendrickx

 

 

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From bhen at telenet.be  Thu Apr 19 18:37:25 2012
From: bhen at telenet.be (Bart Hendrickx)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 00:37:25 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <6605C354-515A-414C-8F02-12E87E3B77CD@iol.ie>
References: <DUB104-W504CAD70DE7B4840BB267E53D0@phx.gbl>
 <6605C354-515A-414C-8F02-12E87E3B77CD@iol.ie>
Message-ID: <002201cd1e7c$fe88f960$fb9aec20$@be>

Dennis' "Almanac of Soviet Manned Spaceflight" is a classic and his Russian
Aerospace Guide was a very important source of information in the
pre-Internet era. I met him at KSC in 1997 where we stood side by side
watching Atlantis soar into space on STS-81. I remember him as a
knowledgeable, modest man with a dry sense of humour. Unfortunately, I lost
contact with him later, but this news still comes as a shock. Rest in peace,
Dennis...

Bart Hendrickx





From robot at ultimax.com  Thu Apr 19 18:59:28 2012
From: robot at ultimax.com (Robert G Kennedy III, PE)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:59:28 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1465.1334856287.624.fpspace@www.friends-partners.org>
References: <mailman.1465.1334856287.624.fpspace@www.friends-partners.org>
Message-ID: <20120419175928.32481ndgfrw38t74@webmail.webhero.com>

All,

This makes me very sad, and the date of Dennis's passing makes it all  
the more poignant. There weren't a lot of us Soviet space sleuths to  
begin with, and quite a few have departed our company in the last few  
years. I knew him as a gifted colleague (which is to say, persistant,  
insightful, and detail-oriented)in our little field, and a reliable  
vendor. I did not know about his "day job". Interesting that he  
managed all his writing and publishing activity in the midst of an  
apparently challenging and rewarding career. I got to meet him once in  
person, at the 40th anniversary of Sputnik up there in DC in October  
1997, IIRC, where I met many of you-all.

Asif Siddiqi wrote:
> Dennis Newkirk passed away on April 12, 2012. He was the author  
> (among many publications) of the wonderful Almanac of Soviet Manned  
> Space Flight (1990).

-- 
Robert G Kennedy III, PE
www.ultimax.com




From clj at panix.com  Thu Apr 19 19:38:28 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:38:28 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek
In-Reply-To: <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>
 <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120419193828.3bb58ad3@cloyd>

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:15:28 +0100 Rui Barbosa <rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there any obituary in english available?

I ran it through Google Translate (or whatever Chrome offers to translate
from Czech to English; I'm pretty sure it *is* Google Translate) and it
wasn't perfect (machine translation never is) but it was very understandable,
moreso than the Russian-English translations I've asked it to do.


From clj at panix.com  Thu Apr 19 19:43:59 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:43:59 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek
In-Reply-To: <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F8F1429.4080204@stny.rr.com>
 <0AD90922-05E7-4B09-AE17-178D7F048BEC@fordham.edu>
 <SNT131-W7A282CBD209BF5B7300A4D83D0@phx.gbl>
 <CAHkaAPcKMUNst=YD0cT_US2R0CSbcg+GDk+LkzkwZJgdPRM=ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120419194359.394320b0@cloyd>

After praising the Czech-English efforts of Google Translate, I neglected to
offer evidence.  Here is the translation of the article at 
http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz

What follows the horizontal line is Google Translate, not me.

__________

Antonin Vitek died. Always know what and why they moved in space
28th February 2012   10:46
At the age of 72 years died after a long illness popularizer Space Antonin
Vitek. Is the author of the largest databases of artificial objects in space.
No media watched the shuttle liftoff or could not do without it. Whether on
radio, television or Technet.cz always funny and yet accurately informed
about what is at the start or happening in space.

Antonin Vitek | Photo: Lukas Prochazka, MF DNES
When he moved in space even garbage V?tek enough to call and he always knew
why it happened and what it might mean for humanity. Rarely is because he had
to look up some materials. Most of them already had in mind a long time ago,
or even on your site unique Space 40 , which deals with satellites and space
probes.

Antonin Vitek amazed the audience commented starts landing spacecraft or his
absolute knowledge of everything that is happening at the moment. He knew
from memory the exact time data when the operations during the countdown
begins and how it will end. The color of smoke and places he knew exactly
what was being ignited or disconnected and that is all right or not. He could
perceive, interpret and graphically describe the viewer's eye going almost
invisible or imperceptible. Not only in this respect was and still is
irreplaceable.

Antonin Vitek was born on 25 January 1940 and until 1985 worked  at the
Institute of Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry. He participated among others
in the development of CSK-1 crystallizer for satellite station Salyut 7 and
Mir legendary. Until his death he worked at the Academy of Sciences.

Vitek is the author of numerous articles on space travel in the journal Space
and Aeronautics + Astronautics. He is also co-author of Small Space
Encyclopedia (1982). Based on the series, which was created for our server,
released in 2008 with his longtime friend, a professional journalist and
publicist Karl Pacnerem book  half-century of space travel . In 2009, won the
prize Litter Astronomico, which awarded him the Czech Astronomical Society
for the popularization of aerospace leadership and the aforementioned
globally unique Internet Encyclopedia Astronautics SPACE 40 . For a long time
worked with daily MF Dnes. He was among the first informed the world about
the tragedy of space shuttle Columbia .

The editors Technet.cz collaborated since 2007, when the honor of the 50th
anniversary of the launch of the first artificial satellite, Sputnik began to
build on the previously mentioned series of half-century of space travel .
Came over a year. Loosely on him in 2010, followed by series of articles
Cosmic known and unknown ports . He was Antonin Vitek complete missed due to
illness.

Even in November 2011 delivered a lecture before a full house at the Academy
of Sciences building on current events in the universe (the record you can
see here ). Coincidentally, at that time was the main theme of the Russian
Phobos Grunt probe, which was so poorly programmed that in January, fell into
the Pacific Ocean .

Antonin Vitek died after a long and severe illness shortly after his second
birthday seventies.

Charles Pacner time ago my friend gave V?tek special article, you can read it
here .

Author: John Kuzn?k
Zdroj:
http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz


From clj at panix.com  Thu Apr 19 21:25:21 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 21:25:21 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Dennis Newkirk
In-Reply-To: <4F903716.2080502@telenet.be>
References: <4F903716.2080502@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CAJmqu6hiZd7V2LBVhRmFhc-ieJca=TQFt-GMCtCuujZ5tk94qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Zeger Nuyens <dokter.nuyens at telenet.be> wrote:
> As a lucky owner of his Almanac of Soviet Manned Spaceflight I can only be
> very sad hearing the news of his passing.
> Every time I update my docs on Soviet Manned Spaceflight, I still look in
> his book to see if I got it right.

I echo the sentiments regarding the worth of this book (sadly, it was
never updated, so it
covers flights up through 1989).

I got my copy when I was a volunteer at the Boston Museum of Science
Soviet Space
exhibit in 1990, and it's even autographed by the author (just the
author's signature, not
a personalized autograph; I imagine the Museum got a bunch like this
to hand out).


From jeoberg at comcast.net  Fri Apr 20 00:08:42 2012
From: jeoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 23:08:42 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] 1988 Mir emergency disclosed
References: <000901cd1e7b$387ba390$a972eab0$@be>
Message-ID: <A61F21EBEE4B4DCDB0B9F2629C95F9EB@ownerfbf08f40c>

Thanks for the report, and putting it in context -- we've seen how such serious accidents are only sporadically reported over the years, and perhaps even top Russian space officials don't have complete records. It was certainly the case with the reports of fires on Salyut vehicles and on Mir. Often the only data ever released was in personal anecdotes, often conflicting.



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bart Hendrickx 
  To: FPSPACE at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 5:24 PM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] 1988 Mir emergency disclosed


  The latest issue of "Novosti kosmonavtiki" carries an interview with former cosmonaut Vladimir Titov. In the interview Titov describes a hitherto undisclosed emergency that arose aboard Mir in March 1988 during his year-long mission with Musa Manarov.  The problems began after Mission Control had sent commands to change the orientation of the station. The crew noticed something was amiss when the Sun showed up in a porthole where it wasn't supposed to be visible. It turned out that the solar panels were no longer facing the Sun and the station's batteries were slowly draining. When the crew reported they were losing power and asked to check the orientation, Mission Control responded everything was fine. They got the same response during the following orbit, Mission Control saying the reorientation would take a while. Unknown to mission controllers, they had sent an erroneous command to the station.

   

  After this pass there were five orbits where the station didn't pass over Soviet territory and communications with Mission Control were impossible. When they entered the Earth's shadow over the Indian Ocean, the crew got a "minimal voltage" alarm and critical systems began shutting down. The station went dark and  on board it was "dead silent", as Titov describes it. As a result of the power loss, the magnetic suspension system of the Kvant module's control moment gyros ("gyrodines") no longer worked, causing the rapidly rotating gyros to come into contact with their housing as they began despinning. This caused some loud bangs, which had the crew very worried. Specialists would later tell them that the gyros could have "ripped the station to pieces" and that they had been very lucky.

   

  Subsequently, the crew tried to contact Mission Control with the radio systems of Soyuz, but there was no response. Titov then slowly improved the station's orientation by activating the Soyuz thrusters, with Manarov looking out one of Mir's portholes and passing on the necessary commands. This gave them enough power for lights and ventilators to turn on again. However, the station's computers were down and the Elektron oxygen generation system had failed, forcing the crew to use solid-fuel oxygen generators ("candles") for about two months. Many other systems had broken down as well because of the power failure and although some spare parts were available aboard Mir many had to be delivered by Progress cargo vehicles. Apparently, things didn't return to normal until the launch of the Soviet-Bulgarian visiting crew in June 1988. 

   

  One wonders if the lessons learned from this emergency situation were passed on to later Mir crews. A similar power failure occurred aboard Mir during the Euromir-94 mission in October 1994  and the crew didn't initially contact Mission Control via Soyuz or take the initiative to use the Soyuz thrusters to restore orientation. When the same scenario repeated itself after the Progress collision in 1997, it was by all accounts Michael Foale and not Tsibliyev or Lazutkin who came up with the idea of activating the Soyuz thrusters.

   

  It has taken almost twenty-five years for this story to come to light and we're talking about a mission that took place in the early years of "glasnost". How many more such revelations can we expect? Is this just the tip of the iceberg?

   

  Bart Hendrickx

   

   



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From Heinz.Janssen2 at gmx.de  Fri Apr 20 03:11:11 2012
From: Heinz.Janssen2 at gmx.de (Heinz Janssen)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:11:11 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: Re:  Antonin Vitek
Message-ID: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net>

Dennis Newkirk and Antonin Vitek both dead - really hard for this community.

R.I.P.

Heinz Janssen, Wittmund, Germany

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:43:59 -0400
Von: Chris Jones <clj at panix.com>
An: fpspace at www.friends-partners.org
Betreff: Re: [FPSPACE] Antonin Vitek

After praising the Czech-English efforts of Google Translate, I neglected to
offer evidence.  Here is the translation of the article at 
http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz

What follows the horizontal line is Google Translate, not me.

__________

Antonin Vitek died. Always know what and why they moved in space
28th February 2012   10:46
At the age of 72 years died after a long illness popularizer Space Antonin
Vitek. Is the author of the largest databases of artificial objects in space.
No media watched the shuttle liftoff or could not do without it. Whether on
radio, television or Technet.cz always funny and yet accurately informed
about what is at the start or happening in space.

Antonin Vitek | Photo: Lukas Prochazka, MF DNES
When he moved in space even garbage V?tek enough to call and he always knew
why it happened and what it might mean for humanity. Rarely is because he had
to look up some materials. Most of them already had in mind a long time ago,
or even on your site unique Space 40 , which deals with satellites and space
probes.

Antonin Vitek amazed the audience commented starts landing spacecraft or his
absolute knowledge of everything that is happening at the moment. He knew
from memory the exact time data when the operations during the countdown
begins and how it will end. The color of smoke and places he knew exactly
what was being ignited or disconnected and that is all right or not. He could
perceive, interpret and graphically describe the viewer's eye going almost
invisible or imperceptible. Not only in this respect was and still is
irreplaceable.

Antonin Vitek was born on 25 January 1940 and until 1985 worked  at the
Institute of Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry. He participated among others
in the development of CSK-1 crystallizer for satellite station Salyut 7 and
Mir legendary. Until his death he worked at the Academy of Sciences.

Vitek is the author of numerous articles on space travel in the journal Space
and Aeronautics + Astronautics. He is also co-author of Small Space
Encyclopedia (1982). Based on the series, which was created for our server,
released in 2008 with his longtime friend, a professional journalist and
publicist Karl Pacnerem book  half-century of space travel . In 2009, won the
prize Litter Astronomico, which awarded him the Czech Astronomical Society
for the popularization of aerospace leadership and the aforementioned
globally unique Internet Encyclopedia Astronautics SPACE 40 . For a long time
worked with daily MF Dnes. He was among the first informed the world about
the tragedy of space shuttle Columbia .

The editors Technet.cz collaborated since 2007, when the honor of the 50th
anniversary of the launch of the first artificial satellite, Sputnik began to
build on the previously mentioned series of half-century of space travel .
Came over a year. Loosely on him in 2010, followed by series of articles
Cosmic known and unknown ports . He was Antonin Vitek complete missed due to
illness.

Even in November 2011 delivered a lecture before a full house at the Academy
of Sciences building on current events in the universe (the record you can
see here ). Coincidentally, at that time was the main theme of the Russian
Phobos Grunt probe, which was so poorly programmed that in January, fell into
the Pacific Ocean .

Antonin Vitek died after a long and severe illness shortly after his second
birthday seventies.

Charles Pacner time ago my friend gave V?tek special article, you can read it
here .

Author: John Kuzn?k
Zdroj:
http://technet.idnes.cz/antonin-vitek-0dv-/tec_vesmir.aspx?c=A120201_130924_tec_vesmir_kuz
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

-- 
NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone!                                  
Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a


From agzak at optonline.net  Fri Apr 20 09:14:54 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:14:54 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>

Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was showing
the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from there.
:)

 




From tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov  Fri Apr 20 13:51:01 2012
From: tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov (Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351))
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 12:51:01 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net> <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>

The REALLY bad news is that Roscosmos has joined the party.  See their English language posts about the launch at http://www.facebook.com/Roscosmos.

Tom

 

-----Original Message-----
From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:15 AM
To: Untitled
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M

Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was showing
the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from there.
:)

 


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace


From agzak at optonline.net  Fri Apr 20 14:29:20 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:29:20 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <CBB72340.18675%agzak@optonline.net>

Looks like blind "copy and paste" from NASA or something like that.


On 4/20/12 1:51 PM, "Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351)"
<tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov> wrote:

> The REALLY bad news is that Roscosmos has joined the party.  See their English
> language posts about the launch at http://www.facebook.com/Roscosmos.
> 
> Tom
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org
> [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:15 AM
> To: Untitled
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
> 
> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
> pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was showing
> the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
> missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from there.
> :)
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace




From clj at panix.com  Sat Apr 21 00:07:47 2012
From: clj at panix.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 00:07:47 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net> <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20120421000747.6a35c105@cloyd>

On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:14:54 -0400 Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net> wrote:

> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> missions.

Although there's still no excuse for NASA (or anyone) referring to 
Progress M-15M as Progress 47, there is no previous spacecraft with this
designation.  The original Progress series (Progress Classic? :-) ended with
Progress 42.


From brharvey at iol.ie  Sat Apr 21 05:09:30 2012
From: brharvey at iol.ie (Brian Harvey)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:09:30 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
Message-ID: <2553A85B-C685-46E4-8873-A326D9DD8502@iol.ie>

The ISS was followed in orbit last night (2200 GMT+1) by a Progress at 2206.

Does anyone know was this the new Progress M-15M, or the old Progress M-14M in independent flight?



Brian Harvey
Dublin, Ireland

From dokter.nuyens at telenet.be  Sat Apr 21 08:40:52 2012
From: dokter.nuyens at telenet.be (Zeger Nuyens)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 14:40:52 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
Message-ID: <4F92AAD4.6000505@telenet.be>

> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:14:54 -0400 Anatoly Zak<agzak at optonline.net  <http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace>>  wrote:
>
> >/  Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> />/  usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> />/  missions.
> /
> Although there's still no excuse for NASA (or anyone) referring to
> Progress M-15M as Progress 47, there is no previous spacecraft with this
> designation.  The original Progress series (Progress Classic? :-) ended with
> Progress 42.
One more time, I will continue to use the official Russian denomination 
until my dying day!
It is and always will be Progress M-15M.

Zeger Nuyens
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sat Apr 21 09:29:52 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 14:29:52 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <4F92AAD4.6000505@telenet.be>
References: <4F92AAD4.6000505@telenet.be>
Message-ID: <3DE01EA5F14445839048C6195AE76D54@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

My view is that anyone who uses the NASA designators instead of the correct names (as assigned by the Russians) for Progress and Soyuz spacecraft is showing their total ignorance of the Russian spacecraft, and therefore their views and comments should be totally ignored.

Phillip Clark


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Zeger Nuyens 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 1:40 PM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M


On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:14:54 -0400 Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net> wrote:

> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> missions.

Although there's still no excuse for NASA (or anyone) referring to 
Progress M-15M as Progress 47, there is no previous spacecraft with this
designation.  The original Progress series (Progress Classic? :-) ended with
Progress 42.
One more time, I will continue to use the official Russian denomination until my dying day!
  It is and always will be Progress M-15M.

  Zeger Nuyens



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From jbcharle at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 21:43:23 2012
From: jbcharle at gmail.com (John)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:43:23 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>
References: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net> <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
 <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <0C5D4C4C-6DCA-4834-AEB7-05A6B69629F8@gmail.com>

Even if the Russians do it themselves, that doesn't make it right? Oh well, everybody has to be offended by something. 

As for me, it is hearing the press refer to the latest launch as "a Soyuz TMA-2M spacecraft". As if the vehicle-specific designator is the name of a series, like "280ZX" or "XB-70". 

JBC
Sent from my iPhone. 
Please forgive typos. 

On Apr 20, 2012, at 12:51, "Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351)" <tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov> wrote:

> The REALLY bad news is that Roscosmos has joined the party.  See their English language posts about the launch at http://www.facebook.com/Roscosmos.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:15 AM
> To: Untitled
> Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
> 
> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
> missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
> pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was showing
> the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
> missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from there.
> :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace


From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sun Apr 22 02:30:11 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 07:30:11 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
In-Reply-To: <0C5D4C4C-6DCA-4834-AEB7-05A6B69629F8@gmail.com>
References: <20120420071111.10650@gmx.net> <CBB6D98E.1865E%agzak@optonline.net>
 <BBF84E5D1335BC4CAF0D1328348C3BC37F7AEDE93C@NDJSSCC01.ndc.nasa.gov>
 <0C5D4C4C-6DCA-4834-AEB7-05A6B69629F8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1DDBE30D20C47C19E764C10CDCE5F00@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

The situation is extremely simple.

The Progress and Soyuz spacecraft are RUSSIAN spacecraft and therefore the 
correct names are those assigned by the Russians.

Anything that NASA and other idiots might want to call the spacecraft is 
totally irrelevant - no-one else has the right the name Russian spacecraft.

It is OK using designators 47P for the 47th Progress to be launched to ISS 
but this designator is simply an internal NASA one because they cannot seem 
to handle the actual spacecraft names (although they had no difficulty in 
correctly naming shuttle missions or the current ATV and HTV freighters). 
Sadly the thick members of the media picked up the internal NASA designators 
and since they knew nothing about the history of Russian spacecraft names a 
mission like 1P suddenly became "Progress 1" - which of course was actually 
launched to Salyut 6 in early 1978, not to ISS.

Anyone who uses the "P" and "S" designators for Progress and Soyuz 
spacecraft instead of the correct Russian names - which are easily 
available, of course - automatically has zero credibility with me, whether 
it's someone in the NASA media room or some minor journalist.

Phillip Clark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John" <jbcharle at gmail.com>
To: "Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351)" <tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov>
Cc: "FPSPACE" <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M


> Even if the Russians do it themselves, that doesn't make it right? Oh 
> well, everybody has to be offended by something.
>
> As for me, it is hearing the press refer to the latest launch as "a Soyuz 
> TMA-2M spacecraft". As if the vehicle-specific designator is the name of a 
> series, like "280ZX" or "XB-70".
>
> JBC
> Sent from my iPhone.
> Please forgive typos.
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 12:51, "Erkenswick, Tom M. (JSC-DM351)" 
> <tom.m.erkenswick at nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>> The REALLY bad news is that Roscosmos has joined the party.  See their 
>> English language posts about the launch at 
>> http://www.facebook.com/Roscosmos.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org 
>> [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly 
>> Zak
>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:15 AM
>> To: Untitled
>> Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
>>
>> Progress M-15M entered orbit, following a seemingly flawless launch. As
>> usual, NASA TV "confused" it with one of the previous Soviet Progress
>> missions. They also kept saying that it was launched from a "busy" Soyuz
>> pad, which saw Gagarin go into space, even though their footage was 
>> showing
>> the launch from Site 31. Obviously, this pad is rarely used for manned
>> missions and, of course, neither Gagarin or Sputnik was launched from 
>> there.
>> :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FPSPACE mailing list
>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>> _______________________________________________
>> FPSPACE mailing list
>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> 




From bergcvd at zonnet.nl  Sun Apr 22 03:53:37 2012
From: bergcvd at zonnet.nl (Kees van den Berg)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:53:37 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
Message-ID: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>

Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri. 

Russia's Progress M-14M has undocked from the International Space Station..... Others say:  Russia's Progress 46P has undocked from the  ISS. Other vehicle, other station? NO !!! 
Simply: Progress M-14M AKA 46P. So we write: Progress M-14M / 46P and the International Space Station = ISS

That's all. Stop the silly discussion about designations.

In reference to: Progress M-14M / 46P made way for the Progress M-15M/47P.
Is there anybody out there who does not understand this?

Come on fpspacers behave like grown up and stop a childish game.


--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 2711 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sun Apr 22 04:07:44 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:07:44 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <F484CB99D6D14EDDAA4E71EF46D738DF@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Sorry, Kees, but I have to totally disagree with you.

The correct names for the two Progress spacecraft which you name are Progress M-14M and Progress M-15M and NOT 46P and 47P respectively.   The latter designators are the figments of NASA's imagination and have no bearing on the correct names of the spacecraft.

When you read about Progress 1 do you think of the spacecraft launched in 1978?   Because in NASA-speak it's the first cargo freighter launched to ISS around two decades later.   This NASA-inspired use of incorrect spacecraft names causes confusion amongst those who do not know about those who think that ISS is the only space station that has ever existed.

It is as simple as that.   I never have and I never will take any prisoners on this subject.

Phillip Clark


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kees van den Berg 
  To: fpspace 
  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:53 AM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????


  Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
  Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri. 

  Russia's Progress M-14M has undocked from the International Space Station..... Others say:  Russia's Progress 46P has undocked from the  ISS. Other vehicle, other station? NO !!! 
  Simply: Progress M-14M AKA 46P. So we write: Progress M-14M / 46P and the International Space Station = ISS

  That's all. Stop the silly discussion about designations.

  In reference to: Progress M-14M / 46P made way for the Progress M-15M/47P.
  Is there anybody out there who does not understand this?

  Come on fpspacers behave like grown up and stop a childish game.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
  SPAMfighter has removed 2711 of my spam emails to date.

  Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan! 


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  _______________________________________________
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From rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 06:31:40 2012
From: rmcsbarbosa at gmail.com (Rui Barbosa)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:31:40 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <CAHkaAPf_KeTy_sFZrhPpxTT2KQeb1j=HNCYD0LZfPmGUwgDC_g@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, but I have never seen such crazy justification for this! It simply
doesn't make sense. I know that Sasha Kaleri is the cosmonaut, but for
NASA, and as Phil said, Progress 1 was not launched in 1978!

The problem is that NASA doesn't only use Progress M-15M/47P, almost always
says Progress 47, simply as that. For me, for you, for many of us, we know
what NASA is talking about, for the people outside the space community that
only randomly read the newspaper in the subway, that vehicle is identified
in the wrong manner and NASA shouldn't do that!


-- 
Rui C. Barbosa
Braga - Portugal
www.zenite.nu/orbita
www.carris-geres.blogspot.com
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From agzak at optonline.net  Sun Apr 22 07:33:58 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 07:33:58 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <CBB964E6.1869F%agzak@optonline.net>

Don?t give them wrong ideas ? they might decide to re-name all Russian
cosmonauts into something ?that sounds better for ordinary Americans.? :)


On 4/22/12 3:53 AM, "Kees van den Berg" <bergcvd at zonnet.nl> wrote:

> Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but
> everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
> Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr
> "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri.
> 

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From dokter.nuyens at telenet.be  Sun Apr 22 08:01:04 2012
From: dokter.nuyens at telenet.be (Zeger Nuyens)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:01:04 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-15M
Message-ID: <4F93F300.4090806@telenet.be>

> It is OK using designators 47P for the 47th Progress to be launched to ISS
> but this designator is simply an internal NASA one because they cannot seem
> to handle the actual spacecraft names (although they had no difficulty in
> correctly naming shuttle missions or the current ATV and HTV freighters).
> Sadly the thick members of the media picked up the internal NASA designators
> and since they knew nothing about the history of Russian spacecraft names a
> mission like 1P suddenly became "Progress 1" - which of course was actually
> launched to Salyut 6 in early 1978, not to ISS.

That is exactly what this discussion is all about.
Nasa can name the European ATV and the Japanese HTV correctly but cannot 
do the same for Russian spacecraft simply because they don't want to do so.
Progress M-15M to dock soon!

Zeger Nuyens


From agzak at optonline.net  Sun Apr 22 08:11:23 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 08:11:23 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <CBB96DAB.186A6%agzak@optonline.net>

BTW, When you meet Aleksandr Kaleri, I really do not recommend to call him
?Sasha.? In Russian culture, informal versions of names for an adult can
only be used by your parents, spouse or close friends. When NASA TV,
American journalists or even some Russians start identifying themselves with
short names in public, it sounds really idiotic if not vulgar. ;)

Anatoly Zak
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com




On 4/22/12 3:53 AM, "Kees van den Berg" <bergcvd at zonnet.nl> wrote:

> Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but
> everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
> Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr
> "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri.
>  
> Russia?s Progress M-14M has undocked from the International Space Station.....
> Others say:  Russia?s Progress 46P has undocked from the  ISS. Other vehicle,
> other station? NO !!!
> Simply: Progress M-14M AKA 46P. So we write: Progress M-14M / 46P and the
> International Space Station = ISS
>  
> That's all. Stop the silly discussion about designations.
>  
> In reference to: Progress M-14M / 46P made way for the Progress M-15M/47P.
> Is there anybody out there who does not understand this?
>  
> Come on fpspacers behave like grown up and stop a childish game.
>  
> 
> 
> I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> .
> SPAMfighter has removed 2711 of my spam emails to date.
> 
> Do you have a slow PC? <http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen>
> Try free scan!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

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From jbcharle at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 09:41:21 2012
From: jbcharle at gmail.com (John)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 08:41:21 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
Message-ID: <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>

Kees, I agree with you. Reading these ongoing diatribes defending Russian nomenclature that even the Russians don't defend reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."

JBC
Sent from my iPhone. 
Please forgive typos. 

On Apr 22, 2012, at 2:53, "Kees van den Berg" <bergcvd at zonnet.nl> wrote:

> Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri was born in 1956. This is his formal name, but everybody call him: Sasha Kaleri.  Is this Sasha another man? NO !!!
> Simply: Aleksandr Yuriyevich Kaleri  AKA Sasha Kaleri. So we write: Aleksandr "Sasha"  Yuriyevich Kaleri.
>  
> Russia?s Progress M-14M has undocked from the International Space Station..... Others say:  Russia?s Progress 46P has undocked from the  ISS. Other vehicle, other station? NO !!!
> Simply: Progress M-14M AKA 46P. So we write: Progress M-14M / 46P and the International Space Station = ISS
>  
> That's all. Stop the silly discussion about designations.
>  
> In reference to: Progress M-14M / 46P made way for the Progress M-15M/47P.
> Is there anybody out there who does not understand this?
>  
> Come on fpspacers behave like grown up and stop a childish game.
>  
> 
> I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
> SPAMfighter has removed 2711 of my spam emails to date.
> 
> Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sun Apr 22 10:12:42 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:12:42 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
 <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Probably the reason that the Russians do not comment is that they use the correct names.   And therefore Russian writers always use the correct names.

It is only stupid westerners who believe that "if NASA says it's true then it must be true".   

Such people are not worth considering seriously.

Phillip Clark




----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John 
  To: Kees van den Berg 
  Cc: fpspace 
  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????


  Kees, I agree with you. Reading these ongoing diatribes defending Russian nomenclature that even the Russians don't defend reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."
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From mike at heney.net  Sun Apr 22 10:57:24 2012
From: mike at heney.net (Michael K. Heney)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:57:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
 <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
 <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1204221034190.7787@mach-25.com>


I hate to jump in - but ...

First off, in Phillip's defense, I am a HUGE fan of tilting at windmills. 
It's good for the soul, even if the chances of prevailing are on par with 
a manned moon landing in 2015.

Rui mentions being correct for the sake of the "people outside the space 
community" (noting that we insiders can figure things out...)  The thing 
is, people outside the community don't know - or care - about such things, 
just as they don't care what the tail number of the aircraft they're 
flying on is.  Heck, many couldn't tell you if they flew on a Boeing or an 
Airbus - their interest in spacecraft designations is generally less.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of multiple names for a given flight.
I saw Atlantis (OV-104) launch on flight STS-135 flying the ULF-7 mission 
on the ISS manifest.  Similarly, folks will say they watched the Terra 
launch, which was an Atlas-IIAS on vehicle AC-141.  Progress-M 15M is a 
vehicle, Progress 47P is a mission designation.  I can live with that, 
because it's not *my* windmill to tilt at.  (I have several of my own, 
thank you.)

Finally - I think the reaction to this thread is because we hear this 
argument.  Every.  Single.  Progress.  And.  Soyuz.  Flight.  We know.
We sympathize.  (although a bit less on each repeat.)   But as there's 
nothing this community can really DO about the matter, the drumbeat gets a 
touch tiresome.

Strictly my own opinion - worth what you paid for it.

- Mike Heney


On Sun, 22 Apr 2012, Phillip Clark wrote:

> Probably the reason that the Russians do not comment is that they use the correct names.   And therefore Russian writers always use the correct names.
>
> It is only stupid westerners who believe that "if NASA says it's true then it must be true".
>
> Such people are not worth considering seriously.
>
> Phillip Clark
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: John
>  To: Kees van den Berg
>  Cc: fpspace
>  Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:41 PM
>  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
>
>
>  Kees, I agree with you. Reading these ongoing diatribes defending Russian nomenclature that even the Russians don't defend reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."
>
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_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

From jbcharle at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 11:01:43 2012
From: jbcharle at gmail.com (John)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:01:43 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
References: <6E9573267B3B47B8A78910F96E0BB2C3@kema>
 <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
 <BEDA1CBFA2DC44419B04B6B5FA4C49D9@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>
Message-ID: <F0D21EF2-4537-496F-8821-0E62CE10C195@gmail.com>

Phil,

Maybe in deference to Russian correctness we should also pronounce the designators in Russian. I confess I will have trouble with the numbers but the proper names should be manageable. 

JBC
Sent from my iPhone. 
Please forgive typos. 

On Apr 22, 2012, at 9:12, "Phillip Clark" <phillipclark at btinternet.com> wrote:

> Probably the reason that the Russians do not comment is that they use the correct names.   And therefore Russian writers always use the correct names.
>  
> It is only stupid westerners who believe that "if NASA says it's true then it must be true".   
>  
> Such people are not worth considering seriously.
>  
> Phillip Clark
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John
> To: Kees van den Berg
> Cc: fpspace
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
> 
> Kees, I agree with you. Reading these ongoing diatribes defending Russian nomenclature that even the Russians don't defend reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."
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From phillipclark at btinternet.com  Sun Apr 22 11:19:14 2012
From: phillipclark at btinternet.com (Phillip Clark)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:19:14 +0100
Subject: [FPSPACE] Correct spacecraft names
Message-ID: <547295DCEA92451F811CD2C2BE669EF3@WINDOWSPGK1XFS>

Let us go back to the beginning with the story of the correct designator systems for missions to ISS.

 

NASA found it rather difficult to account for Russian spacecraft names which were flying to the Mir Complex during its last few months and to ISS: and they were used to dealing with only their own spacecraft.   Therefore, purely for internal planning purposes, they decided to have their own designator system for missions/spacecraft.   This would be a numerical designator to show the planned launch sequence and then an alphabetical designator to indicate the class of mission: the alphabetical designator was R for a Russian module, P for a Progress cargo freighter and S for a Soyuz spacecraft.

 

The shuttle missions had their own ISS designators as well.   So, the first shuttle mission to ISS mission was designated ISS-01A.   This mission was flown on the STS-88 mission, yet no-one thought it was appropriate to call this flight of Endeavour "STS-01A", using the internal ISS designator system as the STS designator - that would have been plain wrong.

 

The first Progress launch to ISS had the NASA internal designator 1P and this mission was flown by Progress-M1 3: yet for some unknown reason NASA (maybe confused with the difficult Russian names of spacecraft?) decided to call this mission "Progress 1": this is plain wrong.   The correct name for the spacecraft was Progress-M1 3, just as the correct designator for the first shuttle ISS mission was STS-88 and not "STS-01A": the real Progress 1 was launched to Salyut 6 in January 1978.

 

Similarly, the first ISS resident crew was launched on a mission designated by NASA as 1S: however, the correct spacecraft name - as identified by the Russians who built, launched and owned the spacecraft - was Soyuz-TM 31 (OK, it was Soyuz TM-31, but it always made more sense to relocate the hyphen!).   Sadly the NASA public affairs people who could not make sense of the Russian spacecraft numbers decided that this would be "Soyuz 1" and the media - who believed that if NASA says something then it must be true - continued to use the "Soyuz 1" designator: this is plain wrong, of course - does remember the real Soyuz 1 and Vladimir Komarov?

 

Sadly NASA never corrected the errors in naming Russian spacecraft, although for some inexplicable reason they were able to always get the STS designators of shuttle missions correct.

 

It is about time that the NASA designator system is recognised as not representing the official naming of Russian spacecraft (as the spacecraft owners, only the Russians have the right to name their spacecraft anyway!) but an internal designator system and thus NASA in its public releases and other writers and commentators used the correct Progress and Soyuz designators.

 

As a compromise, I would of course accept "Progress-M 15M (ISS-47P)" for the object catalogued as 2012-015A, but why complicate things?   The correct name of the spacecraft is Progress-M 15M (wherever you put the hyphen!) and that's the one which should always be used.

 

Let us please put an end to this nonsense and only use the correct spacecraft names.

 

Simple!

 

Phillip Clark
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From agzak at optonline.net  Sun Apr 22 11:46:03 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:46:03 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1204221034190.7787@mach-25.com>
Message-ID: <CBB99FFB.186B8%agzak@optonline.net>

Airbus-737 successfully docked to the ISS this morning... Sorry for another
piece of tiresome information. :)



On 4/22/12 10:57 AM, "Michael K. Heney" <mike at heney.net> wrote:

Heck, many couldn't tell you if they flew on a Boeing or an
> Airbus 

But as there's 
> nothing this community can really DO about the matter, the drumbeat gets a
> touch tiresome.


IMHO, historical record and journalistic accuracy is important and it should
be reminded to NASA as long as they continue this policy.




From agzak at optonline.net  Sun Apr 22 11:57:50 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:57:50 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] What's in a name ?????
In-Reply-To: <B4CC06DF-182E-424B-AC2D-F00EDE331BAA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBB9A2BE.186BB%agzak@optonline.net>

On 4/22/12 9:41 AM, "John" <jbcharle at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kees, I agree with you.
> 
I always agree with anything my government says...
> 
> Reading these ongoing diatribes
> 
... And if I hear a different opinion, I characterize it as ?diatribe?
> 
> that even the Russians don't defend
> 
That?s evidenced from a fake Roskosmos page on Facebook?
> 
> reminds me of the quote attributed to Henry Kissinger and many others: "The
> reason that academic politics are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."
> 
...oh, that why he worked so hard on his doctorate degree? :)


Anatoly Zak
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com

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From jeoberg at comcast.net  Mon Apr 23 13:37:21 2012
From: jeoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:37:21 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
	theColumbia have been saved?
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <29EEB392B09D46269521EC59EC90151D@ownerfbf08f40c>

The leading 'repair' scenarios involved fixing the hole and redesigning entry to imbalance the heat load away from the wounded side -- and nobody even now knows if it might have worked, although the consensus is not. Also, rushing the next launch would have involved launching without being sure the flaw wasn't generic and might strike again. a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.

Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peter Pesavento 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Cc: 'James E Oberg' 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 8:44 PM
  Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


  On the local PBS station this evening they showed the BBC Horizon special "Guide to the Space Shuttle."

   

  One thing completely jumped out at me (besides the error claiming that Salyut 1 was still up in space until Mir, when they intended to mean a series of Salyut stations), was a short clip of our own fpspacer JimO, when they were talking about the Columbia disaster.

   

  The scenario that was explored was that if NASA had decided to investigate the impact of the external tank insulation on the orbiter wing while the mission was still on-going, and had they had some way of looking at it (they showed a terrestrial telescope somewhere..perhaps Palomar, perhaps something else), found out that the wing was compromised, could NASA have saved the Shuttle Columbia.  They also brought up having a rescue mission by another Shuttle, or have an astronaut do a spacewalk to look at the bottom of the craft..

   

  Now they had this very short clip of JimO appearing to say that Columbia could've side-slipped its way through re-entry and possibly survived, where the right side of the Shuttle could've borne the brunt of the re-entry (I believe it was the left wing that had the damage), and possibly could've saved the Shuttle from breaking up.

   

  JimO, do you believe that this scenario is viable (the documentary was issued in 2010)?  That they could've side-slipped (the term used by JimO in the video clip I believe was "crabbed") in?  Was there more to your interview JimO that they left out?

   

  Does this sound viable?  Does this sound do-able?

   

  I am putting this out there to those who may know more about this.  Because that would have had to have been at least a good long while (not mere seconds or mere minutes, like two or three or even ten) to engage this proposed side-slip..

   

  I find the suggestion by JimO interesting, but I don't know whether it could've possibly have been a viable method.  Hence this inquiry to the assembled.

   

  Hold forth with your opinions.  I am willing to read what others think.



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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Mon Apr 23 18:48:52 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 00:48:52 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <29EEB392B09D46269521EC59EC90151D@ownerfbf08f40c>
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
 <29EEB392B09D46269521EC59EC90151D@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjtOuRAU1zz7S8WcJ7dKTW11D6bf1wn5B50U5_wNEGOG3g@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no
spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled
Shuttle.


2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

> ** ********
> .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an
> Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
>
> Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.
>
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From agzak at optonline.net  Mon Apr 23 19:44:17 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:44:17 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <CADMBTjtOuRAU1zz7S8WcJ7dKTW11D6bf1wn5B50U5_wNEGOG3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net>

Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to
carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to
prepare such a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

Anatoly Zak
Creator & Publisher
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On 4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de> wrote:

> Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no
> spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.
> 
> 
> 2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>
>> .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane
>> within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
>> ?
>> Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace

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From ljk4 at msn.com  Tue Apr 24 07:30:39 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:30:39 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] =?iso-8859-15?q?Fwd=3A_=5BNew_post=5D_New_BBC_Program?=
 =?iso-8859-15?q?=3A_=22Discovery=3A_Scott=27s_Legacy_-_Moon=22?=
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS55ADBACC149DE767E90C89C260@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Launius's Blog
Sent: 4/24/2012 11:11:15 AM
To: ljk4 at msn.com
Subject: [New post] New BBC Program: "Discovery: Scott's Legacy - Moon"

New post on Roger Launius's Blog
        [http://1.gravatar.com/blavatar/5ab615dc2687e96bf21dc4fa4be2f3ff?s=32&ts=1335265875]
[http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/488baba4b54ec638fa19eeebd09b6b69?s=50&d=identicon&r=G]<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/>
New BBC Program: ???Discovery: Scott???s Legacy ??? Moon???<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/new-bbc-program-discovery-scotts-legacy-moon/>
by launiusr<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/>

There is a???very fine recent radio program on BBC that I want to call your attention to, "Discovery: Scott's Legacy - Moon<http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00qqq78/Discovery_Scotts_Legacy_Programme_2_Moon/>." I was interviewed for this program and just heard the final product. The synopsis of the program is below:

Can the heroic age of Antarctic exploration help to show us the way back to the Moon?

One hundred years ago, Scott reached the South Pole. However, more than four decades passed before people went back there. On the Moon, Neil Armstrong took his leap for mankind in 1969 and it has been forty years since the last astronaut left the lunar surface. Presenter Kevin Fong talks to space scientists and historians to find out if Robert Scott's Antarctic exploits provide a road map for future human exploration of the Moon and the planet Mars.

Imperial and geopolitical motivations lay behind both South Polar exploration and the effort which took humans briefly to the lunar surface. But what would get us back to the Moon - would it be geopolitical rivalry or science?

In times of economic austerity (in the West at least), what scientific questions are important enough to justify exploration of the Moon? The six short Apollo visits to the lunar surface were enough to crack the mystery of how the Moon itself formed - namely that a Mars sized planet crashed into the early Earth. The molten rock that was blasted into orbit by that collision coalesced as our lunar neighbour.

Sending astronauts back to explore the rocks of the Moon could solve the most important mysteries about the early Earth - when did life first evolve and under what sort of conditions? Their findings could also settle the questions about the origins of our oceans here on Earth.

Among Kevin's other interviewee are NASA's Chief Administrator Charles Bolden, Apollo 17 astronaut Harrison Schmitt (the only geologist to walk on the Moon), NASA scientists Chris McKay and Jennifer Heldmann, Dr Ian Crawford of Birbeck College, University of London and space historian Roger Launius of the National Air and Space Museum of the Smithsonian Institute.

Check it out: Discovery: Scott's Legacy: Programme 2 - Moon<http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fiplayer%2Fepisode%2Fp00qqq78%2FDiscovery_Scotts_Legacy_Programme_2_Moon%2F&h=eAQGZilqzAQGRZ4ojSV6oyhYz5pf5teNiO4xxzJ1Vygq5vQ>

launiusr<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/author/launiusr/> | April 24, 2012 at 11:10 am | Tags: Apollo<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=apollo>, Charles Bolden<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=charles-bolden>, cold war<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=cold-war>, Gene Cernan<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=gene-cernan>, Harrison Schmitt<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=harrison-schmitt>, History<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=history>, international relations<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=international-relations>, JFK<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=jfk>, Moon<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=moon>, Moon race<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=moon-race>, NASA<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=nasa>, presidential power<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=presidential-power>, public perceptions<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=public-perceptions>, public policy<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=public-policy>, science<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=science>, Soviet Union<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=soviet-union>, space science<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=space-science>, U.S. Civil Space<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?tag=u-s-civil-space> | Categories: Apollo<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=28798383>, Cold War Competition<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=38272711>, History<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=678>, Lunar Exploration<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=1582972>, Personal<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=64>, Science<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=173>, Space<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/?cat=174> | URL: http://wp.me/pwYu1-PL

Comment<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/new-bbc-program-discovery-scotts-legacy-moon/#respond>    See all comments<http://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/new-bbc-program-discovery-scotts-legacy-moon/#comments>



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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Wed Apr 25 06:13:39 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 05:13:39 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
	theColumbia have been saved?
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
 <29EEB392B09D46269521EC59EC90151D@ownerfbf08f40c>
 <CADMBTjtOuRAU1zz7S8WcJ7dKTW11D6bf1wn5B50U5_wNEGOG3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9CEA82AD682042559356987C58EFD940@ownerfbf08f40c>

A 'spacecraft' wasn't necessary, since 'Columbia' retained full maneuver and EVA capability. Even a dumpster full of consumables, with a grapple fixture bolted on its side -- maybe 12 hours of work -- would have allowed mission-extension supplies to reach the crew, on one or even more launches over the first two weeks while the Orbiter still had electrical power.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gunter Krebs 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


  Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.



  2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

    .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.

    Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.


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From jeoberg at comcast.net  Wed Apr 25 06:14:48 2012
From: jeoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 05:14:48 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
	theColumbia have been saved?
References: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>

Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anatoly Zak 
  To: Untitled 
  Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


  Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to prepare such a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

  Anatoly Zak
  Creator & Publisher
  http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


  On 4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de> wrote:


    Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


    2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

      .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
       
      Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.



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From gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de  Wed Apr 25 08:25:01 2012
From: gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de (Gunter Krebs)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:25:01 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
References: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net>
 <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <CADMBTjvRycL-V1yA2CvETxFvZJAQQYsgXhFE8k9s0TVA1FPzPw@mail.gmail.com>

That is unfortunately not that simple.

First, the make-shift-cargo-craft needed some capabilities to maneuvre near
the Shuttle, so that a rendezvous could be accomplished. The Ariane upper
stage is not capable of doing this. Also, some kind of stabilization would
have been needed to avoid tumbeling, which would make any attempt to catch
it futile. Therefore a spacecraft and not only a "metal box" is needed.

Second, the STS-107 mission did not carry the CANDARM, so the container
could not be grappled by it. The mssing CANADARM could also not provide a
platform for the Astronauts to grapple the container by hand.

Even if it were possible, to deliver such a make-shift-cargo-craft, it
would not have been able to replenish the orbiter consumables like the
H2/O2 needed for the fuel cells.


Gunter


2012/4/25 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

> **
> Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with
> grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net>
> *To:* Untitled <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
> theColumbia have been saved?
>
> Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed
> to carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to
> prepare such a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.
>
> Anatoly Zak
> Creator & Publisher
> http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com
>
>
> On 4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply
> no spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled
> Shuttle.
>
>
> 2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>
>
> .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an
> Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
>
> Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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From agzak at optonline.net  Wed Apr 25 08:37:52 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:37:52 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <CBBD6860.1871E%agzak@optonline.net>

...because it would probably require lengthy modifications to the Progress?
mid-section to carry unpressurized cargo. It would likely take the effort
beyond the capability of the Shuttle to keep its crew alive. However, if the
Shuttle was designed to dock, any available Progress in the launch schedule
could be sent up (in fact, M-47 was launched right after the accident:

 http://www.russianspaceweb.com/progress.html#m47

Anatoly Zak

P.S. Did Columbia had manipulator and EVA capability in this mission? I
vaguely remember that some Spacelab missions would not carry the arm and EVA
airlocks could be used (if not disabled) by tunnels to Spacelab or to
Spacehab.




On 4/25/12 6:14 AM, "James E Oberg" <jeoberg at comcast.net> wrote:

> Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple
> fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  Anatoly Zak <mailto:agzak at optonline.net>
>>  
>> To: Untitled <mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>
>>  
>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
>>  
>> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide  to the Space Shuttle"...could
>> theColumbia have been saved?
>>  
>> 
>> Purely  speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to
>> carry  some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to
>> prepare such  a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.
>> 
>> Anatoly  Zak
>> Creator & Publisher
>> http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com
>> 
>> 
>> On  4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>>> Unfortunately this scenario was completely  impossible - there was simply no
>>> spacecraft available to be launched on an  Ariane towards the crippled
>>> Shuttle.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2012/4/23 James E Oberg  <jeoberg at comcast.net>
>>>  
>>>> .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies  on an
>>>> Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch  better.
>>>>  
>>>> Anything wouyld have been better than doing  nothing.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> FPSPACE  mailing list
>>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> FPSPACE mailing  list
>>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>>> 

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From john.b.charles at nasa.gov  Wed Apr 25 10:20:36 2012
From: john.b.charles at nasa.gov (Charles, John B. (JSC-SA211))
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:20:36 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <CBBD6860.1871E%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
 <CBBD6860.1871E%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <593E1BFA5C72874DAA6CA1267E6962A44B2744E8FF@NDMSSCC06.ndc.nasa.gov>

No RMS robotic arm on Columbia STS-107. However, all flights had EVA capability and trained crewmembers for contingency end-of-mission EVAs such as manually closing the payload bay doors.
John Charles

From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:38 AM
To: Untitled
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?

...because it would probably require lengthy modifications to the Progress' mid-section to carry unpressurized cargo. It would likely take the effort beyond the capability of the Shuttle to keep its crew alive. However, if the Shuttle was designed to dock, any available Progress in the launch schedule could be sent up (in fact, M-47 was launched right after the accident:

 http://www.russianspaceweb.com/progress.html#m47

Anatoly Zak

P.S. Did Columbia had manipulator and EVA capability in this mission? I vaguely remember that some Spacelab missions would not carry the arm and EVA airlocks could be used (if not disabled) by tunnels to Spacelab or to Spacehab.




On 4/25/12 6:14 AM, "James E Oberg" <jeoberg at comcast.net> wrote:
Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.

----- Original Message -----

From:  Anatoly Zak <mailto:agzak at optonline.net><mailto:agzak at optonline.net>

To: Untitled <mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org><mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>

Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM

Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide  to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


Purely  speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to carry  some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to prepare such  a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

Anatoly  Zak
Creator & Publisher
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On  4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>  wrote:


Unfortunately this scenario was completely  impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an  Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


2012/4/23 James E Oberg  <jeoberg at comcast.net>

.... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies  on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch  better.

Anything wouyld have been better than doing  nothing.


________________________________
_______________________________________________
FPSPACE  mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace



________________________________


_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing  list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From dsfportree at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 25 10:26:12 2012
From: dsfportree at hotmail.com (David Portree)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:26:12 -0600
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <593E1BFA5C72874DAA6CA1267E6962A44B2744E8FF@NDMSSCC06.ndc.nasa.gov>
References: <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>,
 <CBBD6860.1871E%agzak@optonline.net>,
 <593E1BFA5C72874DAA6CA1267E6962A44B2744E8FF@NDMSSCC06.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <SNT133-W11D9D63D6826E00FF000FAD5270@phx.gbl>


My understanding is that handling cargo via EVA is a non-trivial challenge. Of course, in a desperate situation, non-trivial challenges are assumed.

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov
 
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/beyondapollo/ 
 
http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
 



From: john.b.charles at nasa.gov
To: agzak at optonline.net; fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:20:36 -0500
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?

Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?No RMS robotic arm on Columbia STS-107. However, all flights had EVA capability and trained crewmembers for contingency end-of-mission EVAs such as manually closing the payload bay doors.John Charles From: fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org [mailto:fpspace-bounces at www.friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Anatoly Zak
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:38 AM
To: Untitled
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved? ...because it would probably require lengthy modifications to the Progress? mid-section to carry unpressurized cargo. It would likely take the effort beyond the capability of the Shuttle to keep its crew alive. However, if the Shuttle was designed to dock, any available Progress in the launch schedule could be sent up (in fact, M-47 was launched right after the accident:

 http://www.russianspaceweb.com/progress.html#m47

Anatoly Zak

P.S. Did Columbia had manipulator and EVA capability in this mission? I vaguely remember that some Spacelab missions would not carry the arm and EVA airlocks could be used (if not disabled) by tunnels to Spacelab or to Spacehab.




On 4/25/12 6:14 AM, "James E Oberg" <jeoberg at comcast.net> wrote:Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
----- Original Message ----- 
 
From:  Anatoly Zak <mailto:agzak at optonline.net>   
 
To: Untitled <mailto:fpspace at friends-partners.org>  
 
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
 
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide  to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?
 

Purely  speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to carry  some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to prepare such  a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

Anatoly  Zak
Creator & Publisher
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On  4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>  wrote:

 Unfortunately this scenario was completely  impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an  Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


2012/4/23 James E Oberg  <jeoberg at comcast.net>
 .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies  on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch  better.

Anything wouyld have been better than doing  nothing.
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From agzak at optonline.net  Wed Apr 25 11:19:37 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:19:37 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <593E1BFA5C72874DAA6CA1267E6962A44B2744E8FF@NDMSSCC06.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <CBBD8E49.1872A%agzak@optonline.net>

Given that EVA was possible through the hatch in the tunnel between mid-deck
of the orbiter and the Spacehab module, and if Progress could make orbital
inclination change after launch from Baikonur, and if it could maintain
station-keeping near the Shuttle in stabilized position, the Shuttle could
probably approach close enough for a spacewalking astronaut to pull a
package either out of a cutaway in the mid-section, or from a docking port
hatch in the unpressurized cargo module. Maybe?

Anatoly Zak
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com



On 4/25/12 10:20 AM, "Charles, John B. (JSC-SA211)"
<john.b.charles at nasa.gov> wrote:

> No RMS robotic arm on Columbia STS-107. However, all flights had EVA
> capability and trained crewmembers for contingency end-of-mission EVAs such as
> manually closing the payload bay doors.
> John Charles

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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Wed Apr 25 11:37:20 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:37:20 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
	theColumbia have been saved?
References: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net>
 <7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c>
 <CADMBTjvRycL-V1yA2CvETxFvZJAQQYsgXhFE8k9s0TVA1FPzPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A75604E0D4AC42A8A60035B1F1DBA9C5@ownerfbf08f40c>

Thanks for the reminder re the RMS -- so a manual grapple would be required. That has been done before.

Desperate times enable desperate measures.

No active control system would be needed for a cargo pod. Nice, maybe, but necessary, no.

Besides, in this scenario, more than one pod would be under rushed prep at various sites. And more than one might have been launchable in the two weeks [or more, when stretched] before fuel cell cryo ran out.

And run out it would -- the fuel cells would soon go off. But for comm power, send up batteries and portable radios, and for heater power, send up blankets. And flashlights. At that point, it's still a crew rescue challenge, but 'repair' has become impossible.

The airlock would still function without internal power.

Once out the hatch -- That's what the second shuttle would be available for.

Only meant to make the point -- the inexorable time cutoff for Columbia crew on-orbit survival was not nearly as adamantine as first claimed here.

My buddies at the MCC, devastated by the crew's deaths, also were bitterly disappointed that they hadn't been given the chance to DO something. Or to go down swinging.


 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gunter Krebs 
  To: fpspace at friends-partners.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


  That is unfortunately not that simple. 

  First, the make-shift-cargo-craft needed some capabilities to maneuvre near the Shuttle, so that a rendezvous could be accomplished. The Ariane upper stage is not capable of doing this. Also, some kind of stabilization would have been needed to avoid tumbeling, which would make any attempt to catch it futile. Therefore a spacecraft and not only a "metal box" is needed.

  Second, the STS-107 mission did not carry the CANDARM, so the container could not be grappled by it. The mssing CANADARM could also not provide a platform for the Astronauts to grapple the container by hand.

  Even if it were possible, to deliver such a make-shift-cargo-craft, it would not have been able to replenish the orbiter consumables like the H2/O2 needed for the fuel cells.


  Gunter



  2012/4/25 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

    Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload -- a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia' via EVA.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Anatoly Zak 
      To: Untitled 
      Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


      Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine Progress ship repurposed to carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but obviously, there was no time to prepare such a mission, especially when Columbia was not configured to dock.

      Anatoly Zak
      Creator & Publisher
      http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


      On 4/23/12 6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de> wrote:


        Unfortunately this scenario was completely impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


        2012/4/23 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>

          .... a middle course would be launching life-extension supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the next launch better.
           
          Anything wouyld have been better than doing nothing.



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From juliermiller at earthlink.net  Wed Apr 25 15:12:46 2012
From: juliermiller at earthlink.net (Julie Miller)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:12:46 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could the
 Columbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
Message-ID: <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Every single scenario I've seen which claims that Columbia could have 
been saved assumes several things -

Either -

A change to the laws of physics (having Columbia rendezvous with the 
space station or launching anything from Bakinour)

or -

Too much knowledge which didn't exist at the time (anything which 
requires hindsight or any information unavailable to the mission 
control teams during the mission or finding out information before it 
was actually available)

Equipment aboard Columbia which didn't exist (Columbia had no EVA 
compatible cameras - video or digital, no robot arm, and only had 
LiHO canisters, etc.)

Almost infinite resources on the ground (the capability to ask, 
receive permission, and gain access to launch vehicles in other 
countries, prepare ascent profiles in less than a week, some kind of 
canister which would fit on that rocket, etc.)

and

A team on the ground which never (or at least almost never) makes any 
mistakes and always selects the correct choices while preparing for 
the rescue attempt.

If you do come up with a scenario where this super-intelligent never 
makes mistakes team can save Columbia, then you've got to ask 
yourself why didn't the same people have those abilities in October 
2002 at the STS-113 flight readiness review when the STS-112 falling 
bipod issue was addressed and effectively ignored? That's the point 
where the Columbia "rescue" scenario should have been performed - 
ground the fleet until a fix is in place, just as was done for the 
flowliners earlier that year.

Discussing scenarios for saving Columbia's crews is like discussing 
how all of the passengers on the Titanic could have been saved, or 
saving everybody in the second World Trade Center tower after the 
first one was hit, or any other historical scenario. It's always 
easier to say why didn't they do things differently after the fact.

Borrowing an Ariane rocket to launch supplies to extend Columbia's 
stay in space requires many assumptions - a new launch trajectory 
which had never been flown, more maneuvering and engine restarts of 
the Ariane upper stage than has ever been done, a non-existent cargo 
canister (to say nothing about the shipping and customs problems to 
get the cargo to French Guiana), no rendezvous aids, some way of at 
least *partially* stabilizing that container once it's within place 
where it can be reached from an outstretched arm in a spacesuit, some 
way of getting that container temporarily attached to the shuttle (I 
suppose an EVA tether would do, even though the container would 
probably bounce back and forth and eventually damage the tunnel), a 
way of avoiding the jack-in-the-box effect when opening up the 
container to take the stuff into the airlock (unless you're assuming 
that you can squeeze everything into a container small enough to fit 
into the airlock), and probably a bunch of other things.

Remember that the repair/rescue scenarios which NASA came up with 
under the CAIB's orders starts with the assumption that there's 
ABSOLUTE FIRM EVIDENCE 5 days after launch that Columbia is doomed 
and will not survive reentry. Only with that hard axiom in place do 
you make the decision to cancel all crew activity, including the 
experiments the crew was performing, kill the rats (two extra LiHO 
canisters), and go into minimum power mode. And even that assumes 
that you've got no major issues while preparing Atlantis for a rescue 
mission AND that you're willing to launch Atlantis with the absolute 
knowledge that on two of the previous three launches foam fell off 
the bipod (STS-112 and STS-107) and caused damage to flight hardware 
in BOTH instances and you don't know whether or not it fell off on 
the third (STS-113) because it was a night launch. And even then, 
that rescue scenario was devised after weeks of work and the 
knowledge that the Columbia accident had occurred (hindsight).

They COULD NOT have had hard evidence that early - there just wasn't 
enough information that early. The fact that the foam hit wasn't even 
known until the day after launch when the film was examined.

Every single day STS-107 was in space the crew was busy performing 
their experiments, including extremely heavy exercise for the 
European ARMS experiment. That consumes a LOT of LiHO cans. Only 
after the Mission Evaluation Team is concerned enough that there 
*might* be a chance that a rescue would be needed would it be 
justifiable to tell the crew to stop doing experiments and power down 
everything until Mission Control can determine whether or not the 
wing is safe, if an emergency spacewalk might be needed, or whatever 
else might be necessary. If that happens after about half way into 
the mission they've already consumed enough LiHO cans that there 
wouldn't be enough time to fly up emergency supplies.

I don't recall how many LiHO cans were onboard or how many extra 
weather wave-off days were available to the crew. I read that there 
was no consideration to extending the mission for science because the 
Biotube payload wanted to come back as quickly as possible.

If six members of the crew decide to sacrifice themselves and take 
the mythical suicide pills which don't exist then the remaining 
person would have enough supplies to last much longer. But - right or 
wrong - Mission Control considers the crew to be "one unit" when 
considering rescue scenarios, plans are only devised where everybody 
can be saved.

A plausible rescue which doesn't violate the laws of physics is not 
impossible - I'll agree with that. But impossible and could actually 
have been performed in the real world within the actual absolute 
constraints - I don't think so. (IMHO of course).

Of course for many of the media (not all) it's much more 
exciting/newsworthy/interesting to talk about possible rescue 
scenarios than the hard facts and real world limitations. (IMHO of course).



From agzak at optonline.net  Wed Apr 25 16:12:01 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:12:01 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could the
 Columbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CBBDD2D1.18734%agzak@optonline.net>

What laws of physics are violated when Proton's upper stages routinely take
off from Baikonur and make it all the way to zero-degree inclination and
geostationary altitude?! It is only a matter of enough propellant.

Considering "what if" scenarios might help to understand how to plan for the
future, IMHO. Note how many changes post-Columbia missions had: flights
within reach of the station, tiles inspections etc.


Anatoly Zak
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On 4/25/12 3:12 PM, "Julie Miller" <juliermiller at earthlink.net> wrote:


> 
> A change to the laws of physics (having Columbia rendezvous with the
> space station or launching anything from Bakinour)
> 

> 
> _______________________________________________
> FPSPACE mailing list
> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace




From dokter.nuyens at telenet.be  Wed Apr 25 16:25:16 2012
From: dokter.nuyens at telenet.be (Zeger Nuyens)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 22:25:16 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could the
 Columbia have been saved?
Message-ID: <4F985DAC.4090800@telenet.be>

While pondering possible "saving scenario's" might be intellectually 
gratifying,the naked fact is that at that time nobody knew Columbia was 
mortally wounded. I can agree some people should have known something 
was seriously wrong but they didn't. We only knew something was wrong 
when Columbia came streaking back over the California sky. By then,it 
was too late.
BTW what would have happened if Challenger had its O-ring burn through 
not at the ET side but at the outside of the SRB? My guess is that it 
would have reached orbit safely and when recovering the boosters 
somebody would have said "Boy,were we lucky this time" That's what 
accidents are all about. They shouldn't happen but they do.

Zeger Nuyens


From davidlrickman at aol.com  Wed Apr 25 18:14:08 2012
From: davidlrickman at aol.com (David L. Rickman)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:14:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could
 theColumbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <A75604E0D4AC42A8A60035B1F1DBA9C5@ownerfbf08f40c>
References: <CBBB6191.186F5%agzak@optonline.net><7279A727F5DA45C69455E3E5A738C168@ownerfbf08f40c><CADMBTjvRycL-V1yA2CvETxFvZJAQQYsgXhFE8k9s0TVA1FPzPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A75604E0D4AC42A8A60035B1F1DBA9C5@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <8CEF147DE6B1AAA-1E14-787F4@Webmail-m110.sysops.aol.com>

My two cents worth: 

It was incredibly short sighted to send up any Shuttle without an ability to inspect for and repair any damaged or missing tiles the moment we realized that these vehicles routinely loose these tiles during launch.

As I recall, somebody was paid at one time to come up with a feasible repair kit, but failed to deliver on this. And, come on, let's be serious; as many hours as we've spend in space we never came up with the ability to do an inspection??? This could have been done without a spacewalk, with available technology, and without a significant weight constraint. I dare to say that even a High School student could design a system that would weigh less than 10 lbs. and at a cost of under $ 1,000.


It embarrassing how arrogant NASA can be at times.


Regards to all,


David L. Rickman
549 Caribou Road
Asheville, NC  28803
USA 










Follow my progress as I recreate the Soviet Lunniy Korabl spaceship in 1:5 scale at http://lunniykorabl.blogspot.com



-----Original Message-----
From: James E Oberg <jameseoberg at comcast.net>
To: Gunter Krebs <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>; fpspace <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 11:37 am
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?


Thanks for the reminder re the RMS -- so a manual grapple would be required. That has been done before.
 
Desperate times enable desperate measures.
 
No active control system would be needed for a cargo pod. Nice, maybe, but necessary, no.
 
Besides, in this scenario, more than one pod would be under rushed prep at various sites. And more than one might have been launchable in the two weeks [or more, when stretched] before fuel cell cryo ran out.
 
And run out it would -- the fuel cells would soon go off. But for comm power, send up batteries and portable radios, and for heater power, send up blankets. And flashlights. At that point, it's still a crew rescue challenge, but 'repair' has become impossible.
 
The airlock would still function without internal power.
 
Once out the hatch -- That's what the second shuttle would be available for.
 
Only meant to make the point -- the inexorable time cutoff for Columbia crew on-orbit survival was not nearly as adamantine as first claimed here.
 
My buddies at the MCC, devastated by the crew's deaths, also were bitterly disappointed that they hadn't been given the chance to DO something. Or to go down swinging.
 
 
 
  
----- Original Message ----- 
  
From:   Gunter Krebs 
  
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org   
  
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:25   AM
  
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon "Guide   to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?
  


  
That is unfortunately not that simple. 

First,   the make-shift-cargo-craft needed some capabilities to maneuvre near the   Shuttle, so that a rendezvous could be accomplished. The Ariane upper stage is   not capable of doing this. Also, some kind of stabilization would have been   needed to avoid tumbeling, which would make any attempt to catch it futile.   Therefore a spacecraft and not only a "metal box" is needed.

Second,   the STS-107 mission did not carry the CANDARM, so the container could not be   grappled by it. The mssing CANADARM could also not provide a platform for the   Astronauts to grapple the container by hand.

Even if it were possible,   to deliver such a make-shift-cargo-craft, it would not have been able to   replenish the orbiter consumables like the H2/O2 needed for the fuel   cells.


Gunter


  
2012/4/25 James E Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>
  
    
    
Who says it had to dock? Even the simplest payload --     a metal box with grapple fixture -- could have been handled by 'Columbia'     via EVA.
    
      
      
----- Original Message ----- 
      
From: Anatoly Zak 
      
To: Untitled       
      
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:44       PM
      
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] BBC Horizon       "Guide to the Space Shuttle"...could theColumbia have been saved?
      


      
      
Purely speculatively, it is possible to imagine       Progress ship repurposed to carry some hardware to the Shuttle, but       obviously, there was no time to prepare such a mission, especially when       Columbia was not configured to dock.

Anatoly Zak
Creator &       Publisher
http://www.RussianSpaceWeb.com


On 4/23/12       6:48 PM, "Gunter Krebs" <gunter.krebs at skyrocket.de>       wrote:

      
Unfortunately this scenario was completely         impossible - there was simply no spacecraft available to be launched on         an Ariane towards the crippled Shuttle.


2012/4/23 James E         Oberg <jeoberg at comcast.net>
        
.... a middle course would be launching life-extension           supplies on an Ariane within two weeks to give time for preparing the           next launch better.
 
Anything wouyld have been better than doing           nothing.


        
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FPSPACE         mailing list
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From ljk4 at msn.com  Thu Apr 26 06:26:17 2012
From: ljk4 at msn.com (LARRY KLAES )
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:26:17 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] Fwd: [Launch Alert] High Altitude Balloon Flight Scheduled
Message-ID: <BAY170-DS2D8AA15DDD317650B06489C240@phx.gbl>

---------- Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Windows Live Hotmail


-----Original Message-----
From: Launch Alert
Sent: 4/26/2012 3:37:25 AM
To: Launch Alert
Subject: [Launch Alert] High Altitude Balloon Flight Scheduled

                             LAUNCH ALERT

                              Brian Webb
                     Ventura County, California
                  launch-alert-editor at earthlink.net
                        www.spacearchive.info<http://www.spacearchive.info>

                               2012 April 25 (Wednesday) 20:28 PDT
----------------------------------------------------------------------

                HIGH ALTITUDE BALLOON FLIGHT SCHEDULED
     Reprinted with permission from Arizona Near Space Research
                           www.ansr.org/<http://www.ansr.org/>

Arizona Near Space Research (ANSR) is pleased to announce the flight
of ANSR-68. This high altitude balloon flight will take place on
Saturday, April 28, 2012 at 9:00 A.M. The launch site will be the
University of Arizona Maricopa Agricultural Center, near Maricopa, AZ
(33 deg 04.42 min, 111 deg 58.97 min). The final launch site choice
will depend on the predicted winds aloft. Watch for additional
announcements prior to launch day.

The balloon will be a 3000-gram weather balloon, filled with helium.
The expected burst altitude will be 90,000 feet or more. The flight is
anticipated to last about 2.5 hours from launch to touchdown.

The balloon will carry ten student-built payload packages containing a
variety of scientific apparatus as well as digital cameras to
photo-document the flight. This flight is part of the NAU and Arizona
Space Grant "Changes in Altitude" program. This project involves six
elementary, Middle and High Schools from across Arizona. We thank NAU
and AZ Space Grant for helping us fulfill our goal of "Promoting
Science and Education through Amateur Radio and High Altitude
Balloons."

APRS Beacons will transmit position information as follows: KA7NSR-11
and KA7NSR-12 both on 445.950 MHz, KA7NSR-13 on 144.34 MHZ

The ANSR Cross-Band Repeater will operate with an input frequency of
145.56 MHz with a 162.2 Hz tone, and an output of 445.525 MHz. While
contacts (especially DX) are welcome, please give priority to chase
team members. It is planned to place the repeater on IRLP node 9256.

The Sunday prediction for the flight of ANSR-68 is for a track of 56.3
miles on a bearing of 101?, or 29 miles NE of Picacho Peak and 23
miles ESE of Florence. This prediction is based on the model at
www.habhub.org<http://www.habhub.org> and is 8 miles longer than the previous prediction. A
prediction using Balloon Prediction 0.9.1.2 lands 7 miles south of
Habhub.

The Jetstream is forecast to be way to the north with just a mild
southeasterly flow over Arizona. High temperatures are predicted to be
near 90?F. No precipitation is forecast.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2012, Brian Webb. All rights reserved. No portion of this
newsletter may be used without identifying Launch Alert as the
source and providing a functioning hyperlink or text that point to
http://www.spacearchive.info/newsletter.htm.


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From kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za  Thu Apr 26 06:47:23 2012
From: kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za (Keith Gottschalk)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:47:23 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] could the Columbia have been saved?
In-Reply-To: <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8FEDCD4605E44C2B8DCF98F0B13D763E@your94e826b122>
 <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4F9943DB020000A60001CD2A@uwc.ac.za>

Dear Julie,
 
   your thorough, comprehensive reasoning and facts below clinch your arguments.
 
   All these "what if" proposals are still good. They can all be thought through before our next disaster happens, regardless of  whether our next disaster happens on Soyuz, Dragon, CST 200, Orion, Heavenly Vessel, or Skylon. So some extra techniques will be available the inevitable next time.
 
      I recall that another JimO proposal at the time was that Cape Canaveral should keep on standby a Minuteman with an emergency supplies payload that could be launched immediately its interception trajectory could be computed.  Your email below brings out other points. Sooner or later, it will be wise to develop, and then keep on standby, a payload that has grapple features, & some sort of manipulator arm.  Plus your simple - but vital - point that any such rescue payload must have its contents secured with a net, so that after opening they do not spring out and get lost in space.
 
    An entirely different possibility is that some years ago JimO forwarded to this forum a short news item about space skydiving. That some company was developing a flexible thermal blanket that aastronauts could wrap around themselves & survive a reentry plunge through the atmosphere.  My memory (which can be faulty) was that this email from JimO ended with a cheery "watch this space!" sentence. Alas, we've never heard anything further about R&D on this flexible survival blanket.
 
yours, Keith.


>>> On 2012/04/25 at 09:12 PM, in message <E1SN7e8-0001aJ-EG at elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>, Julie Miller <juliermiller at earthlink.net> wrote:

Every single scenario I've seen which claims that Columbia could have 
been saved assumes several things -

Either -

A change to the laws of physics (having Columbia rendezvous with the 
space station or launching anything from Bakinour)

or -

Too much knowledge which didn't exist at the time (anything which 
requires hindsight or any information unavailable to the mission 
control teams during the mission or finding out information before it 
was actually available)

Equipment aboard Columbia which didn't exist (Columbia had no EVA 
compatible cameras - video or digital, no robot arm, and only had 
LiHO canisters, etc.)

Almost infinite resources on the ground (the capability to ask, 
receive permission, and gain access to launch vehicles in other 
countries, prepare ascent profiles in less than a week, some kind of 
canister which would fit on that rocket, etc.)

and

A team on the ground which never (or at least almost never) makes any 
mistakes and always selects the correct choices while preparing for 
the rescue attempt.

If you do come up with a scenario where this super-intelligent never 
makes mistakes team can save Columbia, then you've got to ask 
yourself why didn't the same people have those abilities in October 
2002 at the STS-113 flight readiness review when the STS-112 falling 
bipod issue was addressed and effectively ignored? That's the point 
where the Columbia "rescue" scenario should have been performed - 
ground the fleet until a fix is in place, just as was done for the 
flowliners earlier that year.

Discussing scenarios for saving Columbia's crews is like discussing 
how all of the passengers on the Titanic could have been saved, or 
saving everybody in the second World Trade Center tower after the 
first one was hit, or any other historical scenario. It's always 
easier to say why didn't they do things differently after the fact.

Borrowing an Ariane rocket to launch supplies to extend Columbia's 
stay in space requires many assumptions - a new launch trajectory 
which had never been flown, more maneuvering and engine restarts of 
the Ariane upper stage than has ever been done, a non-existent cargo 
canister (to say nothing about the shipping and customs problems to 
get the cargo to French Guiana), no rendezvous aids, some way of at 
least *partially* stabilizing that container once it's within place 
where it can be reached from an outstretched arm in a spacesuit, some 
way of getting that container temporarily attached to the shuttle (I 
suppose an EVA tether would do, even though the container would 
probably bounce back and forth and eventually damage the tunnel), a 
way of avoiding the jack-in-the-box effect when opening up the 
container to take the stuff into the airlock (unless you're assuming 
that you can squeeze everything into a container small enough to fit 
into the airlock), and probably a bunch of other things.

Remember that the repair/rescue scenarios which NASA came up with 
under the CAIB's orders starts with the assumption that there's 
ABSOLUTE FIRM EVIDENCE 5 days after launch that Columbia is doomed 
and will not survive reentry. Only with that hard axiom in place do 
you make the decision to cancel all crew activity, including the 
experiments the crew was performing, kill the rats (two extra LiHO 
canisters), and go into minimum power mode. And even that assumes 
that you've got no major issues while preparing Atlantis for a rescue 
mission AND that you're willing to launch Atlantis with the absolute 
knowledge that on two of the previous three launches foam fell off 
the bipod (STS-112 and STS-107) and caused damage to flight hardware 
in BOTH instances and you don't know whether or not it fell off on 
the third (STS-113) because it was a night launch. And even then, 
that rescue scenario was devised after weeks of work and the 
knowledge that the Columbia accident had occurred (hindsight).

They COULD NOT have had hard evidence that early - there just wasn't 
enough information that early. The fact that the foam hit wasn't even 
known until the day after launch when the film was examined.

Every single day STS-107 was in space the crew was busy performing 
their experiments, including extremely heavy exercise for the 
European ARMS experiment. That consumes a LOT of LiHO cans. Only 
after the Mission Evaluation Team is concerned enough that there 
*might* be a chance that a rescue would be needed would it be 
justifiable to tell the crew to stop doing experiments and power down 
everything until Mission Control can determine whether or not the 
wing is safe, if an emergency spacewalk might be needed, or whatever 
else might be necessary. If that happens after about half way into 
the mission they've already consumed enough LiHO cans that there 
wouldn't be enough time to fly up emergency supplies.

I don't recall how many LiHO cans were onboard or how many extra 
weather wave-off days were available to the crew. I read that there 
was no consideration to extending the mission for science because the 
Biotube payload wanted to come back as quickly as possible.

If six members of the crew decide to sacrifice themselves and take 
the mythical suicide pills which don't exist then the remaining 
person would have enough supplies to last much longer. But - right or 
wrong - Mission Control considers the crew to be "one unit" when 
considering rescue scenarios, plans are only devised where everybody 
can be saved.

A plausible rescue which doesn't violate the laws of physics is not 
impossible - I'll agree with that. But impossible and could actually 
have been performed in the real world within the actual absolute 
constraints - I don't think so. (IMHO of course).

Of course for many of the media (not all) it's much more 
exciting/newsworthy/interesting to talk about possible rescue 
scenarios than the hard facts and real world limitations. (IMHO of course).

_______________________________________________
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FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
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From jameseoberg at comcast.net  Fri Apr 27 11:49:57 2012
From: jameseoberg at comcast.net (James E Oberg)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:49:57 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] What we learned from North Korea's rocket no-show
Message-ID: <249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24@ownerfbf08f40c>

What we learned from North Korea's rocket no-show 
Lessons drawn from what we saw, and didn't see, during unprecedented press tour
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47204491/ns/technology_and_science-space/ 
By James Oberg , NBC News space analyst  // April 27/ 08:50 EDT

Looking back on what we were shown - and what was not shown - during our unprecedented press tour of North Korea's space facilities, I realize that both these aspects of reality had lessons for us. The very absence of some expected features of the trip strongly indicated the presence of important features of North Korea. 

That sounds bizarre - how can you see something by not seeing something? But it's why I was along on the trip. My designation, as shown on my identification tag, was "NBC space consultant," and that set me apart. It wasn't the first time.

When I had made my first commercial inspection trip to Russia's Baikonur Cosmodrome in the mid-1990s, my client had a strange request. His team was considering renting a Russian rocket to launch one of their communications satellites from that spaceport in Kazakhstan.

"Our engineers will evaluate what the Russians are telling us and showing us," he told me. "Your job will be to find out what they're not telling or showing us."

That was actually easier than it sounded. Because of the tightly interlaced themes of "rocket science," revelations in one area had implications in other areas. A description of one capability or requirement often implied the existence of specific support technologies that did not need to be identified explicitly. Gaps in descriptions - deliberate or accidental - were usually betrayed by those missing links.

That was a successful inspection trip, and my client chose to go with the Russian launch offer. Based on the assessments of their own team and the gaps that my nosing around filled in, the project worked out fine, and the satellite was later launched without incident.

That approach worked well in North Korea, too, as our NBC team was shown and told a lot about their space satellite plans - and just as obviously, not shown and told a lot.  But disclosure of some things often betrayed attempts to hide other things.

.What we did see made headlines, and deservedly so. We were the first foreigners ever to visit any of the North Korean launch bases - for us, the new base at Sohae, in far northwestern North Korea.  We were the first to be shown, up close, a real rocket and what probably turned out to be a real (if unusual) satellite. And we were the first visitors to their satellite control center, northeast of Pyongyang.  

Shows, secrets and make-believe 
But before reviewing the on-scene space facilities, I want to describe another escorted "show" put on by our hosts, because it may help explain the space visits more clearly.

This happened on our last day in North Korea, after the anniversary parade. Our team had requested scenes of everyday life, so our escort got us a minivan for just our crew, and off we went.

Parks and monuments were easy enough to locate, but our central request was for an "ordinary store" with "ordinary shoppers." As we drove through Pyongyang, we spotted neighborhoods of interest. But each one was waved off with excuses about parking, or one-way traffic, or other superficially plausible reasons. 

Finally, near the copy of France's Arc de Triomphe, there was an opportunity, and we pulled over. We hustled into a very impressive building with a very impressive general store, and taped the desired scenes.

Hearing that there was an art store on the second floor, we detoured on the way back to the minivan and went shopping. Some of the material was in fact very attractive, and we made a number of purchases, discussing them over a snack at a restaurant on the first floor.

But we had stayed in the shopping center far longer than we had intended - or, as it turned out, than our escort had intended. Heading back upstairs to complete some art purchases, we were startled to cross paths with another group entering the building: other journalists from our hotel, also being shown a "typical" North Korean shopping scene. We laughed about the coincidence, and after completing our purchases laughed again on the way downstairs when a third group of guests from our hotel showed up.

It was no coincidence at all, obviously.

Watching from outside while the minivan was brought up, I saw the pedestrian traffic patterns that explained it. Off down the side street was a military checkpoint, apparently a compound for families of high-ranking officers. The people coming into and out of the shops were coming and going to that compound. Behind me, along the public street, people walked past on their own errands - and I didn't see any of them stop to enter the shops we had been shown. 

In this case, the set-up was obvious, even if revealed only by accident. What we had asked to see - a typical store with typical shoppers in Pyongyang - was never delivered. Instead, we were manipulated into "coming across" a seemingly random store that was actually exactly the one our handler had been aiming for all along, in a longstanding plan to fool us.

We were shown everything except the only thing we had been looking for. And the space tours, perhaps, had been no different.

Face-to-face false promises 
It had been at the main satellite control center that a face-to-face confrontation between me and the center's director turned the spotlight on the first big thing we had not been shown at the launch base two days earlier.

.As the only "rocket scientist" in the press group, I was treated with great respect. So I was hustled into the viewing gallery ahead of everyone else and seated next to the center director. 

He proceeded to give a speech about the peaceful intent of the launch and how our visit had verified this to the world. Before we could get into an argument over that, he made fun of foreign doubters and said that to prove the satellite we'd seen at the launch base was really going into space, he would have his team rig a seat - with parachute - for a skeptical journalist to ride into space next to the satellite, and return to testify as to what he'd seen. 

In the face of several still-skeptical questions from other news teams, he repeated his offer in several variations. He was highly impressed with the humor of his idea. This was going nowhere.

"I'll go," I interjected into the dispute. "But we don't need that to prove the claim. All we really need are photographs of the satellite being installed."

No problem, he replied. "We will give you such photographs," was his answer through the interpreter.

That wasn't good enough for me. Fortunately one of the hundred or so Korean words I'd memorized for the trip popped into my mind. Leaning forward and looking him in the eye, I simply said "Eon-je?" His eyes widened.

The interpreter stammered at the linguistic flow reversal. But he quickly recovered and said, "When?"

He brushed the question aside - "Soon!" - and went on to another subject. I left him my hotel room number, for any photographs. 

In the end, of course, the world never did get to see those promised photographs. By now, weeks later, it would be too late. There's been plenty of time to stage them or otherwise fake them. The window of opportunity for proving the central point of the entire foreign inspection - that the rocket was carrying a small science payload, and only that - had closed soon after the false promise was made.

We never did get proof of what really was under that nose cone atop the rocket. This was the core of the North Korean claim - that the presence of a "peaceful satellite" made the launch "peaceful." Although there were multiple ways they could have easily proved what the actual contents were, and although they repeatedly promised they would do so, in the end they never provided any such proof. 

We had been shown everything around the one thing we had expected to be shown - but not that one thing itself. As with the special store, perhaps they expected us to see what we had wanted, even when they switched it out for something entirely different.

The biggest no-show 

Friday, April 13, dawned foggy, but the sky soon cleared. It was the second day of the announced four-day-long launch window. We gathered in the press room at the Yang Gak Do hotel, and our escorts described the cultural events we would soon be loading onto buses for. The white screen that had been set up in the front of the room, where we expected to see the launch live, remained unlit.

Then, shortly after 8 a.m., telephone calls and emails began arriving from colleagues outside the country. The rocket had already been launched, we learned. Within minutes we got further word, relayed from South Korea and Japan, that it had failed.

Not watching it in real time was a bummer, to be sure. That had been an explicit promise, to us and to the world. And in terms of insight into the event, it was a major disappointment.

That's because our news team had privately worked out a plan to try to observe the rocket in the sky during its ascent - from where we were, in Pyongyang. The rocket was going to pass about 60 miles (100 kilometers) west of us, more than halfway up the sky. This was based on my initial back-of-the-envelope estimates, supplemented by detailed calculations emailed to me from experts in the U.S. 

While the rocket flame wasn't expected to be super bright, I thought we'd have a good chance of detecting the ascent visually, and seeing the second-stage separation. I'd seen a few medium-sized rockets of similar type over the years at that range, and had brought my binoculars to help spot this one.

It was a challenge to devise a plan to get outside quickly once launch was seen on the front screen. One door that would be critical was usually kept locked. Other doors in the hotel were just too far away. 

We also discussed the issue with our escorts, that we wanted to go outside as soon as launch occurred. That may have been a mistake. But had we caught them by surprise by running for the door at liftoff, their reaction might well have been severe.

The original explicit promise for the observation visit was to watch the launch live. Exactly where wasn't specified, but real-time witnessing was specifically spelled out. 

But for some reason, a high official decided to renege on that promise. Whether our known plans for direct non-censorable observations had anything to do with it or not, we were never given the chance to make those observations, because we weren't told in time that the launch had occurred.

Had we been outside and filming, I have no doubt we would have seen and recorded the explosion that destroyed the rocket. If other news crews had seen us running for the door and followed us, there would have been multiple tapes. Diagnosing the cause of the disaster, and locating the rocket's debris, would have been made easier.

But it was not to be. A deliberate North Korean strategy of not showing us something that they had originally promised to show us eliminated that possibility.

For the rest of the trip, it was a classic "Rocket? What rocket?" routine. All the officials acted as if there never had been a rocket, and we were here only to celebrate the Kim Il Sung centennial. No explanation - or even an explanation for the lack of an explanation - was ever offered. No official ever mentioned 'rockets' to us again.

What does 'not telling' tell us? 

The first lesson from these two enormously disappointing cover-ups is that it wasn't real transparency, but only the illusion of transparency, that most likely had always been the activity's intent. Cynics warned that this would be the case from the start.

In secondary areas of insight - which exact building does which function at the launch site - we learned a lot. But in the central focus of the show-and-tell - what was actually aboard the rocket - we were told, but we weren't shown.

The second lesson is more uplifting. We really did learn a lot, including things the North Koreans probably didn't expect us to notice. The hitherto-top-secret location of the satellite control center is one example. The much-more-massive launch gantry at the new launch pad is another. Other new insights are still being evaluated.

Another insight is that they clearly were totally blindsided by the failure. There was no "Plan B," involving a credible and candid reaction of the kind that the world press had come to expect. This apparently sincere astonishment is completely consistent with the leadership styles I had seen - and remarked on - earlier, an unwavering view that ferocious devotion to the Great Leader would guarantee success for all efforts. That had been an early warning sign of impending disaster that I had passed on to my news team. 

In hindsight, not showing the launch live probably didn't involve damage-limitation calculations at all. It seems they had never installed the communications equipment at the hotel that could have shown the launch live. It had been an empty promise all along.

So it remains true that in rocket science, at least, plans to control outsiders' insight by deliberately partial disclosure usually fail. And even when we know in advance that such a strategy seeks to exploit our presence, it's worth going anyway, if we prepare adequately to see what is unseen and hear what is untold. I'm ready to pack my bags again for anywhere else where they want to play that game.

Comments
http://technology-science.newsvine.com/_news/2012/04/27/11429651-what-we-learned-from-north-koreas-rocket-no-show#comments 
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From agzak at optonline.net  Fri Apr 27 17:37:17 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:37:17 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24@ownerfbf08f40c>
Message-ID: <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>

I knew there would be a mob of 50,000 photographers with bigger, better
cameras than mine, but I still decided to make a pilgrimage:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/manned/reusable/shuttle/ent
erprise/last_flight/index.htm

It is what you do with it that counts :)


Anatoly Zak
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From thomsona at flash.net  Fri Apr 27 17:47:55 2012
From: thomsona at flash.net (Allen Thomson)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:47:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <1335563275.7740.YahooMailRC@web180915.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


???????!

What camera/lens/etc. were you using?




________________________________
From: Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net>
To: Untitled <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
Sent: Fri, April 27, 2012 4:37:37 PM
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle

Good bye Shuttle I knew there would be a mob of 50,000 photographers with 
bigger, better cameras than mine, but I still decided to make a pilgrimage:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/manned/reusable/shuttle/enterprise/last_flight/index.htm


It is what you do with it that counts :)
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From rsvp321 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 27 17:49:08 2012
From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:49:08 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>
References: <249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24@ownerfbf08f40c>,
 <CBC089CD.18792%agzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <BAY153-W465A0947767CB2160A10CAF8250@phx.gbl>


Excellent shots! I can almost hear the engines! Thanks for sharing, Anatoly. Pete
 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:37:17 -0400
From: agzak at optonline.net
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle



Good bye Shuttle


I knew there would be a mob of 50,000 photographers with bigger, better cameras than mine, but I still decided to make a pilgrimage:



http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/manned/reusable/shuttle/enterprise/last_flight/index.htm



It is what you do with it that counts :)





Anatoly Zak




_______________________________________________
FPSPACE mailing list
FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace 		 	   		  
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From agzak at optonline.net  Fri Apr 27 18:51:41 2012
From: agzak at optonline.net (Anatoly Zak)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:51:41 -0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] Good bye Shuttle
In-Reply-To: <CA+m86YBLPx7+Zfe6DNpRdu=Sv_Cnu6bUdaniGByZXjJpBLW=nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBC09B3D.1879E%agzak@optonline.net>

We should all thank her pilots, who made it really easy and spectacular for
everybody! Given the size of the bird and the height of buildings in New
York, they took it really low.

Anatoly Zak



On 4/27/12 5:49 PM, "Christopher Gorski" <cpgorski at gmail.com> wrote:

> "Bigger, better cameras"?? Goodness gracious, I can read the tail numbers on
> 905!
> ?
> Fantastic!? Thanks for sending these!
> ?
> --Christopher Gorski
> ?
> 
> ?
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Anatoly Zak <agzak at optonline.net> wrote:
>> I knew there would be a mob of 50,000 photographers with bigger, better
>> cameras than mine, but I still decided to make a pilgrimage:
>> 
>> http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/manned/reusable/shuttle/ente
>> rprise/last_flight/index.htm
>> 
>> It is what you do with it that counts :)
>> 
>> 
>> Anatoly Zak 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> FPSPACE mailing list
>> FPSPACE at www.friends-partners.org
>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
>> 
>> 
>> 

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From dpayson at mail.ru  Sat Apr 28 01:55:07 2012
From: dpayson at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?RG1pdHJ5IFBheXNvbg==?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:55:07 +0400
Subject: [FPSPACE] =?utf-8?q?Roscosmos_draft_Strategy-2003_is_now_online?=
In-Reply-To: <CBC09B3D.1879Eagzak@optonline.net>
References: <CA+m86YBLPx7+Zfe6DNpRdu=Sv_Cnu6bUdaniGByZXjJpBLW=nA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CBC09B3D.1879Eagzak@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <E1SO0cd-00030A-Uv.dpayson-mail-ru@f190.mail.ru>

Hello:

For those interested, Roscosmos has placed online its draft Strategy-2030 (Russian version only);

http://www.roscosmos.ru/main.php?id=402

It is kind of unprecedented move from our space agency, so I think you might be interested.

Dmitry Payson
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From dpayson at mail.ru  Sat Apr 28 01:58:11 2012
From: dpayson at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?RG1pdHJ5IFBheXNvbg==?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:58:11 +0400
Subject: [FPSPACE]
 =?utf-8?q?Roscosmos_draft_Strategy-2003_is_now_online_-?=
 =?utf-8?q?_ERRATA=3A_2030?=
In-Reply-To: <E1SO0cd-00030A-Uv.dpayson-mail-ru@f190.mail.ru>
References: <CA+m86YBLPx7+Zfe6DNpRdu=Sv_Cnu6bUdaniGByZXjJpBLW=nA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CBC09B3D.1879Eagzak@optonline.net>
 <E1SO0cd-00030A-Uv.dpayson-mail-ru@f190.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <E1SO0fb-0001yI-QH.dpayson-mail-ru@f248.mail.ru>

Oops. Of course Strategy-2030


Sat, 28 Apr 2012 09:55:07 +0400 ?? Dmitry Payson <dpayson at mail.ru>:
Hello:

For those interested, Roscosmos has placed online its draft Strategy-2030 (Russian version only);

http://www.roscosmos.ru/main.php?id=402

It is kind of unprecedented move from our space agency, so I think you might be interested.

Dmitry Payson


-- 

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From kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za  Sat Apr 28 08:21:55 2012
From: kgottschalk at uwc.ac.za (Keith Gottschalk)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:21:55 +0200
Subject: [FPSPACE] Reflections on What we learned from North Korea's rocket
 no-show
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JimO,
 
    thanks, much appreciated! A few quick reflections on the
censorship, showcasing, etc.
 
1) HUGE INCOORDINATION BETWEEN DPRK GOVT. DEPARTMENTS.
 
A journalist friend was amongst the first allowed in to the DPRK about
a quarter-century ago, specifically as a journalist, invited by their
Info. Dept, to show how nice they are.
But other govt. depts banned visas to any foreign journalist as
"spies". So his minder had to negotiate with him that he could only take
photos when officials from other govt. depts were not around.
 
    Similarly, one dept. of the DPRK was flattered when a group of
Scottish retired railwaymen came decades ago for that specifically
British working-class hobby of train spotting. This was heralded by the
relevant govt. dept as working class-to working class solidarity
tourism. The entire purpose of their trip was of course to stand on top
of road bridges going over railway lines. Each time steam engines
approached, they'd all whip out their notebooks to record 2-6-2 or
whatever (2 front wheels-six driving wheels-2 bogie wheels), plus the
registration no on the side of the steam engine, & any other fun
details.
 
    But each time they did, their Korean guides were panic-stricken at
what they could only regard as "industrial espionage". They kept
repeatedly whispering to my friend "what are they doing?" & had to be
repeatedly re-assured that this was their hobby, exactly what they did
at home on Scottish railways.
 
  So when an official of one govt. dept says you will be allowed to see
X, he might be lying - or he might simply find his boss overruled by the
boss of another dept.
 
2) "an unwavering view that ferocious devotion to the Great Leader
would guarantee success for all efforts."
 
   Please remember that they HAVE to do this in public, to avoid being
demoted, fired, or detained on suspicion of counter-revolutionary
sympathies. Only if one Korean is alone with you, & he really trusts
you, & he's checked the room for bugs, dare he whisper his secret
contrary views to you.  When the first Chinese academics visited my
university in the early 1990s, it was the same. Only in recent years are
Chinese academics abroad much more relaxed, though guarded & watch their
tongues.
 
3) METAL MOCK-UPS & OTHER POTEMKIN VILLAGES 
 
   For the PRC's first three decades, 1949-79, all western visitors
were taken to only the six same collective farms in a country of one
billion people! They were probably also defensive about the fact that
while people like me from 3rd world countries find it "normal" to have
shantytowns, beggars at every traffic lights and car park, etc, whereas
westerners would take this as proof of backwardness, compared to what
they're used to.
 
     One western group was taken off see how beneficial PRC rule was
towards pastoralist clans in Sinkiang & Inner Mongolia. They were
entertained royally in tents while joyful pastoralists did folk dances
etc. The more perceptive amongst them felt that something was wrong, but
couldn't but their finger on it.
 
    After their third such visit to a tented village, it dawned on
them. In each village they were shown, there were only handsome young
men & beautiful women. There were no elderly persons, & no young
children. It turned out the westerners were being entertained by the
professional folk dancing ensembles of the state theatre. When one of
the visitors discreetly pulled up a corner of the groundsheet in one of
these tents, he saw fresh green grass underneath. In short, it was not a
real peasant's homestead tent, but had just been rigged up for their
visit.  The relevance of this is that the DPRK leadership will be more
familiar with the PRC than other countries.
 
   Yesterday South African newspapers published a German analysts'
report that the DPRK biggest new missiles on public parade this weekend
were metal mockups with a skin too thin to have structural strength for
fueling or flight. No doubt some FPSPACERs have already seen the full
report. This was also done by Nasser in Egypt in the early 1960s - but
the 1967 war proved that not one such rocket was every built or fired.
 
   The interesting bit will be to watch to see how long glasnost takes
to come to north Korea. Years or decades? Will the DPRK try to have one
satellite launch per year from now on? & what will JimO & westerners be
shown on each annual visit? When the DPRK make such decisions, one
factor will be the relative weight they place on making propaganda to
show how menacing their missile is, versus showcasing how advanced their
hi-tech prestige is.
 
- Keith


>>> On 2012/04/27 at 05:49 PM, in message
<249775DC1ED84DB69790A8F4A30C5D24 at ownerfbf08f40c>, "James E Oberg"
<jameseoberg at comcast.net> wrote:

What we learned from North Korea's rocket no-show 
Lessons drawn from what we saw, and didn't see, during unprecedented
press tour
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47204491/ns/technology_and_science-space/ 
By James Oberg , NBC News space analyst  // April 27/ 08:50 EDT
 
Looking back on what we were shown ? and what was not shown ? during
our unprecedented press tour of North Korea's space facilities, I
realize that both these aspects of reality had lessons for us. The very
absence of some expected features of the trip strongly indicated the
presence of important features of North Korea. 
 
That sounds bizarre ? how can you see something by not seeing
something? But it?s why I was along on the trip. My designation, as
shown on my identification tag, was "NBC space consultant," and that set
me apart. It wasn?t the first time.
 
When I had made my first commercial inspection trip to Russia?s
Baikonur Cosmodrome in the mid-1990s, my client had a strange request.
His team was considering renting a Russian rocket to launch one of their
communications satellites from that spaceport in Kazakhstan.
 
"Our engineers will evaluate what the Russians are telling us and
showing us," he told me. "Your job will be to find out what they?re not
telling or showing us."
 
That was actually easier than it sounded. Because of the tightly
interlaced themes of "rocket science," revelations in one area had
implications in other areas. A description of one capability or
requirement often implied the existence of specific support technologies
that did not need to be identified explicitly. Gaps in descriptions ?
deliberate or accidental ? were usually betrayed by those missing
links.
 
That was a successful inspection trip, and my client chose to go with
the Russian launch offer. Based on the assessments of their own team and
the gaps that my nosing around filled in, the project worked out fine,
and the satellite was later launched without incident.
 
That approach worked well in North Korea, too, as our NBC team was
shown and told a lot about their space satellite plans ? and just as
obviously, not shown and told a lot.  But disclosure of some things
often betrayed attempts to hide other things.
 
.What we did see made headlines, and deservedly so. We were the first
foreigners ever to visit any of the North Korean launch bases ? for us,
the new base at Sohae, in far northwestern North Korea.  We were the
first to be shown, up close, a real rocket and what probably turned out
to be a real (if unusual) satellite. And we were the first visitors to
their satellite control center, northeast of Pyongyang.  
 
Shows, secrets and make-believe 
But before reviewing the on-scene space facilities, I want to describe
another escorted "show" put on by our hosts, because it may help explain
the space visits more clearly.
 
This happened on our last day in North Korea, after the anniversary
parade. Our team had requested scenes of everyday life, so our escort
got us a minivan for just our crew, and off we went.
 
Parks and monuments were easy enough to locate, but our central request
was for an "ordinary store" with "ordinary shoppers." As we drove
through Pyongyang, we spotted neighborhoods of interest. But each one
was waved off with excuses about parking, or one-way traffic, or other
superficially plausible reasons. 
 
Finally, near the copy of France?s Arc de Triomphe, there was an
opportunity, and we pulled over. We hustled into a very impressive
building with a very impressive general store, and taped the desired
scenes.
 
Hearing that there was an art store on the second floor, we detoured on
the way back to the minivan and went shopping. Some of the material was
in fact very attractive, and we made a number of purchases, discussing
them over a snack at a restaurant on the first floor.
 
But we had stayed in the shopping center far longer than we had
intended ? or, as it turned out, than our escort had intended. Heading
back upstairs to complete some art purchases, we were startled to cross
paths with another group entering the building: other journalists from
our hotel, also being shown a "typical" North Korean shopping scene. We
laughed about the coincidence, and after completing our purchases
laughed again on the way downstairs when a third group of guests from
our hotel showed up.
 
It was no coincidence at all, obviously.
 
Watching from outside while the minivan was brought up, I saw the
pedestrian traffic patterns that explained it. Off down the side street
was a military checkpoint, apparently a compound for families of
high-ranking officers. The people coming into and out of the shops were
coming and going to that compound. Behind me, along the public street,
people walked past on their own errands ? and I didn?t see any of them
stop to enter the shops we had been shown. 
 
In this case, the set-up was obvious, even if revealed only by
accident. What we had asked to see ? a typical store with typical
shoppers in Pyongyang ? was never delivered. Instead, we were
manipulated into "coming across" a seemingly random store that was
actually exactly the one our handler had been aiming for all along, in a
longstanding plan to fool us.
 
We were shown everything except the only thing we had been looking for.
And the space tours, perhaps, had been no different.
 
Face-to-face false promises 
It had been at the main satellite control center that a face-to-face
confrontation between me and the center?s director turned the spotlight
on the first big thing we had not been shown at the launch base two days
earlier.
 
.As the only "rocket scientist" in the press group, I was treated with
great respect. So I was hustled into the viewing gallery ahead of
everyone else and seated next to the center director. 
 
He proceeded to give a speech about the peaceful intent of the launch
and how our visit had verified this to the world. Before we could get
into an argument over that, he made fun of foreign doubters and said
that to prove the satellite we?d seen at the launch base was really
going into space, he would have his team rig a seat ? with parachute ?
for a skeptical journalist to ride into space next to the satellite, and
return to testify as to what he?d seen. 
 
In the face of several still-skeptical questions from other news teams,
he repeated his offer in several variations. He was highly impressed
with the humor of his idea. This was going nowhere.
 
"I?ll go," I interjected into the dispute. "But we don?t need that to
prove the claim. All we really need are photographs of the satellite
being installed."
 
No problem, he replied. "We will give you such photographs," was his
answer through the interpreter.
 
That wasn?t good enough for me. Fortunately one of the hundred or so
Korean words I?d memorized for the trip popped into my mind. Leaning
forward and looking him in the eye, I simply said "Eon-je?" His eyes
widened.
 
The interpreter stammered at the linguistic flow reversal. But he
quickly recovered and said, "When?"
 
He brushed the question aside ? "Soon!" ? and went on to another
subject. I left him my hotel room number, for any photographs. 
 
In the end, of course, the world never did get to see those promised
photographs. By now, weeks later, it would be too late. There?s been
plenty of time to stage them or otherwise fake them. The window of
opportunity for proving the central point of the entire foreign
inspection ? that the rocket was carrying a small science payload, and
only that ? had closed soon after the false promise was made.
 
We never did get proof of what really was under that nose cone atop the
rocket. This was the core of the North Korean claim ? that the presence
of a "peaceful satellite" made the launch "peaceful." Although there
were multiple ways they could have easily proved what the actual
contents were, and although they repeatedly promised they would do so,
in the end they never provided any such proof. 
 
We had been shown everything around the one thing we had expected to be
shown ? but not that one thing itself. As with the special store,
perhaps they expected us to see what we had wanted, even when they
switched it out for something entirely different.
 
The biggest no-show 
 
Friday, April 13, dawned foggy, but the sky soon cleared. It was the
second day of the announced four-day-long launch window. We gathered in
the press room at the Yang Gak Do hotel, and our escorts described the
cultural events we would soon be loading onto buses for. The white
screen that had been set up in the front of the room, where we expected
to see the launch live, remained unlit.
 
Then, shortly after 8 a.m., telephone calls and emails began arriving
from colleagues outside the country. The rocket had already been
launched, we learned. Within minutes we got further word, relayed from
South Korea and Japan, that it had failed.
 
Not watching it in real time was a bummer, to be sure. That had been an
explicit promise, to us and to the world. And in terms of insight into
the event, it was a major disappointment.
 
That?s because our news team had privately worked out a plan to try to
observe the rocket in the sky during its ascent ? from where we were, in
Pyongyang. The rocket was going to pass about 60 miles (100 kilometers)
west of us, more than halfway up the sky. This was based on my initial
back-of-the-envelope estimates, supplemented by detailed calculations
emailed to me from experts in the U.S. 
 
While the rocket flame wasn?t expected to be super bright, I thought
we?d have a good chance of detecting the ascent visually, and seeing
the second-stage separation. I?d seen a few medium-sized rockets of
similar type over the years at that range, and had brought my binoculars
to help spot this one.
 
It was a challenge to devise a plan to get outside quickly once launch
was seen on the front screen. One door that would be critical was
usually kept locked. Other doors in the hotel were just too far away. 
 
We also discussed the issue with our escorts, that we wanted to go
outside as soon as launch occurred. That may have been a mistake. But
had we caught them by surprise by running for the door at liftoff, their
reaction might well have been severe.
 
The original explicit promise for the observation visit was to watch
the launch live. Exactly where wasn?t specified, but real-time
witnessing was specifically spelled out. 
 
But for some reason, a high official decided to renege on that promise.
Whether our known plans for direct non-censorable observations had
anything to do with it or not, we were never given the chance to make
those observations, because we weren't told in time that the launch had
occurred.
 
Had we been outside and filming, I have no doubt we would have seen and
recorded the explosion that destroyed the rocket. If other news crews
had seen us running for the door and followed us, there would have been
multiple tapes. Diagnosing the cause of the disaster, and locating the
rocket?s debris, would have been made easier.
 
But it was not to be. A deliberate North Korean strategy of not showing
us something that they had originally promised to show us eliminated
that possibility.
 
For the rest of the trip, it was a classic "Rocket? What rocket?"
routine. All the officials acted as if there never had been a rocket,
and we were here only to celebrate the Kim Il Sung centennial. No
explanation ? or even an explanation for the lack of an explanation ?
was ever offered. No official ever mentioned ?rockets? to us again.
 
What does 'not telling' tell us? 
 
The first lesson from these two enormously disappointing cover-ups is
that it wasn?t real transparency, but only the illusion of transparency,
that most likely had always been the activity?s intent. Cynics warned
that this would be the case from the start.
 
In secondary areas of insight ? which exact building does which
function at the launch site ? we learned a lot. But in the central focus
of the show-and-tell ? what was actually aboard the rocket ? we were
told, but we weren?t shown.
 
The second lesson is more uplifting. We really did learn a lot,
including things the North Koreans probably didn?t expect us to notice.
The hitherto-top-secret location of the satellite control center is one
example. The much-more-massive launch gantry at the new launch pad is
another. Other new insights are still being evaluated.
 
Another insight is that they clearly were totally blindsided by the
failure. There was no "Plan B," involving a credible and candid reaction
of the kind that the world press had come to expect. This apparently
sincere astonishment is completely consistent with the leadership styles
I had seen ? and remarked on ? earlier, an unwavering view that
ferocious devotion to the Great Leader would guarantee success for all
efforts. That had been an early warning sign of impending disaster that
I had passed on to my news team. 
 
In hindsight, not showing the launch live probably didn?t involve
damage-limitation calculations at all. It seems they had never installed
the communications equipment at the hotel that could have shown the
launch live. It had been an empty promise all along.
 
So it remains true that in rocket science, at least, plans to control
outsiders' insight by deliberately partial disclosure usually fail. And
even when we know in advance that such a strategy seeks to exploit our
presence, it?s worth going anyway, if we prepare adequately to see what
is unseen and hear what is untold. I?m ready to pack my bags again for
anywhere else where they want to play that game.
 
Comments
http://technology-science.newsvine.com/_news/2012/04/27/11429651-what-we-learned-from-north-koreas-rocket-no-show#comments


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From ljk4 at msn.com  Sun Apr 29 23:16:10 2012
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 03:16:10 +0000
Subject: [FPSPACE] =?iso-8859-15?q?Fwd=3A_NASA=27s_dwindling_budget=3A_Why?=
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Subject: NASA's dwindling budget: Why has America stopped reaching for the stars?

The Starry Messenger<http://StarryMessenger.Net>
The StarrySkies Network Newsletter
http://StarrySkies.com<http://StarrySkies.Com>
http://StarrySkies.net<http://StarrySkies.Net>

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NASA's dwindling budget: Why has America stopped reaching for the stars?<http://starryskies.net/?p=24523>

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What we learned from North Korea's Rocket no-show<http://starryskies.net/?p=24505>

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Three-toed horses reveal the secret of the Tibetan Plateau uplift<http://starryskies.net/?p=24467>

Dr. Tao Deng from Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology,<http://phys.org/news/2012-04-three-toed-horses-reveal-secret-tibetan.html> Chinese Academy of Sciences, and his team report a well-preserved skeleton of a 4.6 million-year-old three-toed horse (Hipparion zandaense) from the Zanda Basin, southwestern Tibet. Morphological features indicate that the Zanda horse was a cursorial horse that lived in alpine steppe habitats.

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Professors sue to stop ancient bones transfer<http://starryskies.net/?p=24465>

Two skeletons that rested undisturbed<http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_20477032/professors-sue-stop-ancient-bones-transfer> on a San Diego cliff top for nearly 10,000 years are at the center of a modern court battle.

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Bones of early American disappear from underwater cave<http://starryskies.net/?p=24463>

One of the first humans<http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21741-bones-of-ancient-american-stolen-from-underwater-cave.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news> to inhabit the Americas has been stolen - and archaeologists want it back.

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Inscription Appears to Confirm 'Sign of Jonah' on Jerusalem Tomb Ossuary<http://starryskies.net/?p=24461>

Following the recent announcement<http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/march-2012/article/inscription-appears-to-confirm-sign-of-jonah-on-jerusalem-tomb-ossuary> of the discovery of the earliest known Christian imagery in the exploration of a sealed first century Jerusalem tomb, controversy predictably erupted, with numerous members of the community of biblical scholars offering alternate interpretations of the iconography and disputing the tomb's claimed Christian connections.

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Rare archaeological slab of Ramesses III found at Karnak Temple<http://starryskies.net/?p=24458>

A big archaeological slab<http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/Story.aspx?sid=61473> dating back to the era of Ramesses III, the most famous king of the Dynasty 20 (The Modern State era) was found.

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CLEOPATRA AND ANTONY'S CHILDREN REDISCOVERED<http://starryskies.net/?p=24456>

Cleopatra's twin babies now have a face<http://news.discovery.com/history/cleopatras-twin-babies-120420.html>. An Italian Egyptologist has rediscovered a sculpture of Alexander Helios and Cleopatra Selene, the offspring of Mark Antony and Cleopatra VII, at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.

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Meat Eating Behind Evolutionary Success of Humankind, Global Population Spread, Study Suggests<http://starryskies.net/?p=24454>

Carnivory is behind the evolutionary success of humankind<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120420105539.htm>. When early humans started to eat meat and eventually hunt, their new, higher-quality diet meant that women could wean their children earlier. Women could then give birth to more children during their reproductive life, which is a possible contribution to the population gradually spreading over the world.

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Rare Find in Jerusalem Reflects Ancient Connections with Egypt<http://starryskies.net/?p=24451>

For archaeologists and students of archaeology<http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/march-2012/article/rare-find-in-jerusalem-reflects-ancient-connections-with-egypt>, hearing the name "Jerusalem" conjures up images of ancient artifacts that can be found in few other places in the world. But recent archaeological excavations there have uncovered something that has not been commonly found.

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Pompeii wall collapses, despite new conservation initiative<http://starryskies.net/?p=24449>

A 2,000-year old wall<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9219470/Pompeii-wall-collapses-despite-new-conservation-initiative.html> surrounding an ancient villa at Pompeii has collapsed - just two weeks after the Italian government launched a 105 million euro project (?86 million) to save the precious archaeological site.

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Swedish Stonehenge? Ancient Stone Structure Spurs Debate<http://starryskies.net/?p=24447>

Ancient Scandinavians dragged 59 boulders to a seaside cliff<http://www.livescience.com/19747-stonehenge-ales-stenar-astronomical-calendar.html> near what is now the Swedish fishing village of K?seberga. They carefully arranged the massive stones - each weighing up to 4,000 pounds (1,800 kilograms) - in the outline of a 220-foot-long (67-meter) ship overlooking the Baltic Sea.

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Salford scientists reveal the 'sound of Stonehenge'<http://starryskies.net/?p=24444>

Whatever went on there<http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2012/apr/19/stonehenge-acoustics-archaeology-salford-university-bruno-fazenda>, it would have impressed the ancient Britons. Even if it was only whispering. We are nowhere nearer cracking the mystery of the monument as a result; but who would want to be? Apart from all the mountains of remaindered books of theories, a puzzle solved is never as gripping as a conundrum still under way.

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Archaeologists Blast Hasty World Heritage Listings<http://starryskies.net/?p=24441>

One of the most significant global committees that you never heard of<http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2012/04/18/archaeologists-blast-hasty-world-heritage-listings/> summoned a couple of hundred experts to the island of Menorca, Spain last week. The meeting involved politics, the remnants of great civilizations, human catastrophes, architectural triumphs, religious works of art and architecture, use of tourism, the rise and fall of empires, and did we say politics?

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Who Owns the Past?<http://starryskies.net/?p=24439>

The federal government should fix or drop new regulations<http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=who-owns-the-past> that throttle scientific study of America's heritage Thousands of remains could be made inaccessible to researchers. In our view, the new regulations should be repealed or, at least, revised to distinguish different classes of unidentified remains.

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Ancient manuscript found in Brisbane<http://starryskies.net/?p=24437>

The Queensland Museum has been revealed as an unlikely resting place<http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/ancient-manuscript-found-in-brisbane-20120420-1xc5l.html> for the missing pieces of a rare manuscript from ancient Egypt.
Archaeologists had been searching for the missing fragments of the rare Book of the Dead for 100 years when a visiting Egyptologist stumbled across them while in Brisbane to open a mummy exhibition.

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Stephen Hawking at 70: still the brightest star in the scientific universe<http://starryskies.net/?p=24433>

As the author of A Brief History of Time<http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jan/01/stephen-hawking-at-70> approaches 70, eminent former students celebrate an awe-inspiring intellect still pushing at the frontiers of physics

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