[FPSPACE] Which way for NASA? A step-by-step path -- 'FlexiblePath' concept may work out better than fixation on moon orMars // September 11, 2009

Tue Sep 15 19:08:27 EDT 2009

Jens & John:

Yes to multiple stations; we can't do everything worth doing on one single station because some activities are mutually exclusive. I see ISS as a good example of how not to build a space station. Now that we've shown the world how not to do it, we can get back to doing single-launch core stations with plug-in modules. The only reason we went down the tinker-toy road was because we had to use the Shuttle payload bay to launch all the bits. And because the Russians could only toss 20 tons at a shot. This is a good justification for Ares V.

Robots are not, perhaps, best seen as what we use when we can't use astronauts. Rather, astronauts are best seen as what we use when we can't use robots. Robots are to be favored because they are cheaper. Incidentally, if we ever do decide to settle space, it'll be one of those cases where robots can't do it, though they could build the settlement before the settlers arrive. 

Would we then need professional astronauts? That is, if we had robots wandering around building living volumes. Maybe to lead the wagon train, but otherwise, maybe not.

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov

http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/

> From: dstdba at post4.tele.dk
> To: jbcharle at gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 04:58:55 +0200
> CC: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Which way for NASA? A step-by-step path -- 'FlexiblePath' concept may work out better than fixation on moon orMars // September 11, 2009
> 
> 
> Hi JBC,
> 
> Hopefully nobody will object to robots in space where applicable :-)
> 
> My concern is that some people come across as 'tired of going round
> in circles around the Earth'. They even seem to argue that once the
> goal of building the ISS has finished, it should be discarded with a
> hollow howl of 'mission accomplished'. 
> 
> Through google I find just one treatise which advocates multiple LEO
> stations. That is "The Initial Nine Space Settlements" from 2003 by
> Anita Gale and Richard Edwards:
> 
> http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=APCPCS0
> 00654000001001187000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes
> 
> Does NASA listen to proceedings from the American Institute of Physics?
> 
> --
> Jens Kieffer-Olsen
> Slagelse, Denmark
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John [mailto:jbcharle at gmail.com] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:07 AM
> > 
> > Jens,
> > 
> > Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my position. Personally 
> > I am in 
> > favor of a space program with robots doing what they do 
> > best--which is 
> > acting as surrogates for people in places we cannot or don't want to 
> > send people--and with people in LEO, and on the Moon, and on 
> > Mars and 
> > elsewhere, doing the scientific investigations that they do best.
> > 
> > My comment about having had a goal for the past few years relates to 
> > the way it focused our planning onto those space life sciences 
> > research topics that contributed to the goal. I will miss that focus.
> > 
> > JBC
> > (some typos due to iPhone touchpad)
> > 
> > On Sep 13, 2009, at 14:15, "Jens Kieffer-Olsen" 
> > <dstdba at post4.tele.dk> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > Jim's MSNBC commentary is good - very good - given that there
> > > is not enough money in the pot to both land a crew on Mars
> > > AND bring it back home to Earth.
> > >
> > > My only misgiving - and one that neither David nor John Charles
> > > seems to address - is that we are far from ready to 'dismiss'
> > > low Earth orbit. "Been there, done that" is NOT in my view the
> > > proper attitude to the challenge of mastering LEO!
> > >
> > > What we need is a string of international space stations. The
> > > ISS is in a rather arbitrary orbit, chosen to meet Russian
> > > requirements. Let's have a HISS as well, a High Inclination
> > > Space Station to study polar regions and release satellites
> > > into such orbits. And of course a zero inclination space
> > > station, from which to release interplanetary spacecraft.
> > >
> > > If maintaining three international space stations is too tall
> > > an order, I don't think time is ready yet to contemplate the
> > > noble plan of establishing a permanent manned outpost on, say,
> > > Phobos.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jens Kieffer-Olsen
> > > Slagelse, Denmark
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Charles [mailto:jbcharle at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:13 PM
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > >> Someday, somebody will have to actually commit to a concrete
> > >> architecture for human space exploration beyond low Earth orbit,
> > >> and let human creativity bend that architecture to new and
> > >> unanticipated uses. Griffin made a valiant attempt, and always
> > >> impressed me as someone who actually understood how things had
> > >> to be arranged in order to work. He also antagonized people,
> > >> including some who now claim he "hated" this or that, and others
> > >> who stood not to profit under his plans.
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:59 AM, David Portree
> > >> <dsfportree at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > >>> JSC and Griffin *hated" the DPT approach. Which probably
> > >>> means it's a good idea, JSC being the minds behind the Space
> > >>> Shuttle and Shuttle-launched Space Station, after all.
> > >>>
> > >>> ________________________________
> > >>> From: jameseoberg at comcast.net
> > >>> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> > >>> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:16:04 -0500
> > >>>
> > >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32767421/ns/technology_and_science- 
> > >> space//
> > >>>
> > >>> Commentary By James Oberg // NBC News space analyst //
> > >>> Special to MSNBC
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > >>> None of us really knows what criteria the White House will use
> > >>> to select NASA's future course, or how policymakers will mix and
> > >>> match among the options.
> > >>> In all my years of experience observing the Space Age, working
> > >>> within the heart of it, and writing and speaking widely about it,
> > >>> I've found that expecting rationality in the debate over space
> > >>> policy is often a folly that ends in tears.
> > >>>
> > >>> I do want to make one plea, however. My own contribution to the
> > >>> national debate is going to be a defense of the much-maligned
> > >>> "look but don't touch" option - what the panel calls "Flexible
> > >>> Path." I think it deserves more respect than it's been getting,
> > >>> and I'd be content to see it emerge from the process.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > FPSPACE at friends-partners.org
> > > http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> 
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