[FPSPACE] Habitable for microbes, Larry

Mon Jul 6 21:16:59 EDT 2009

Larry:

It has been my belief for some little while that we need to get realistic while continuing to lay groundwork for the future. Right now what we're going to have to focus on is getting a good CEV built, continuing to use ISS for biomed work and systems testing, and robotic exploration missions. All will be challenges, so it's not really like we'll be dropping the ball. All will keep the door open for future projects.

The moon and Mars gang needs to get realistic about its dreams the way the EVA gang did a while back (c. 1990). For a time, everyone seemed to assume that EVAs would be easy things. Space Station Freedom was going to need hundreds of hours of spacewalks for assembly and maintenance, and few worried much about that. We lost precious time - and almost lost the space station - because some people hung onto that dream for too long.  

The old dreams never stood a chance. There was never really an opportunity for them - Apollo had circumscribed objectives. It was never meant to be a foot in the door to a nuclear Mars piloted mission, for example. The opportunity many folks seem to think we missed never actually existed. 

So, let's get some new dreams that we can make come true. 

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov

http://robotexplorers.blogspot.com/
http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/
http://portreeland.blogspot.com/

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/

From: ljk4 at msn.com
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 02:15:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Habitable for microbes, Larry

I think that if there is any remaining life on Mars - and by life I mean living
simple organisms like maybe bacteria or lichen at best, assuming it even
resembles anything like terrestrial organisms - it is deep underground perhaps
taking advantage of whatever liquid water is left down below.  

There may and should be plenty of fossils of past life on the surface and
just below it, but we have only successfully scouted but a few areas on
a world with the land area equivalent of all the dry surface of Earth.  
Though I think a few object the MERs found look awfully suspicious.

Of course for all I know there could be creatures like this hiding out
on the Red Planet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d76fiWRobU4

What this means is that any Mars life won't be found until human colonies
are well established and able to dig deep into the planet's surface.  I don't
know how much decontamination will cost for the first manned missions to
return from Mars (and there will only be relatively few before the missions
are geared towards a permanent base - it will be too expensive to keep
doing Apollo-style missions), but it can't be that expensive compared to
the rest of the mission.  Just keep them on whatever space station exists
at the time in Earth orbit and wait until the astronauts are okay, or dead.
Either way they will be in space.

I would be more concerned about poor Mars being contaminated, but since
colonizing the Sol system is inevitable, all we can do is examine Mars and
other worlds robotically before our descendants coming marching in.

As for when manned Mars missions will start happening, I will be surprised
if NASA can get its collective act together on that one before 2040 the
way things are looking now for even the manned lunar missions.  Maybe
another country (a joint ESA-Russia mission?) or a private space company
might manage something, but at this point I will feel lucky to see a lunar
base let alone even a short visit anywhere else.

As for the plan you promote to put NEO observing bases on the lunar
farside, you must know they won't happen until a basic infrastructure
is set up in space first, which means a basic lunar base on the near
side first.  I don't expect the Chinese to have such a thing by the
time NASA is still talking about one in 2024 based on how slowly they
are developing their manned space program.

So, if you want yor lunar farside NEO base, you need to promote the
very things you keep dumping on.  Maybe the private space industry
will come to the rescue, but so far I see them barely getting suborbital
flights going, to say nothing of an actual functioning base on another
world.

By the way, this is how I used to think humans going to Mars was
going to be, courtesy of David S. F. Portree's Beyond Apollo blog: 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VRIPUQofXu8/SklsVUrszVI/AAAAAAAAF9U/99Own86Hkts/s1600-h/Deimos1.jpg

You may or may not like my answers, but they are the honest ones.
And personally I wish we did have all those space bases that we
were promised back in the 1950s and 1960s.  You would have had
your lunar farside NEO observatory by now and I would have had my
lunar farside SETI listening posts.  You should be glad there are NEO
programs happening now - there are probably more of them than
SETI programs running.

Larry

From: epgrondine at hotmail.com
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 15:00:27 -0500
Subject: [FPSPACE] Habitable for microbes, Larry

Hi all - 

I wonder why manned Mars enthusiasts do not seem to understand that every time there's a report like the one Larry alerted us to, the hazard of back contamination grows?

Larry, perhaps you'd like to share with us your views on the severity of the back contamination problem, and your estimates as to the costs involved in clearing it as a threat before manned Mars flight can take place?

I am assuming that most of the rest of you here are familiar with Marse Piat, and the solutions proposed for that mission design.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

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