[FPSPACE] Discovery reveals Mars is not a dead planet

[Jens Kieffer-Olsen]

aOa-----Original Message-----
From: E.P. Grondine [mailto:epgrondine at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 5:17 PM
To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
Subject: [FPSPACE] Discovery reveals Mars is not a dead planet

aOa>> I am not advocating closed-loop environmental systems. 
>> On the contrary I expect regular cargo deliveries from Earth!
>
> That's not a realistic expectation, Jens.
>
>> Most of the people here are intimately familiar with Soviet
>> work on closed loop life support systems.
>
> A commonality in space fantasies is the complete ignorance of
> mass factions, often combined with fantasies about propulsion
> systems. That leads to unrealistic cost estimates, which then
> allow the fulfillment of some desired social goal:

 If we are looking 40 or 50 years ahead anyway, it's quite likely
 that Martian settlers will enjoy some partial closed-loop system
 as well as inexpensive regular cargoes from Earth. But only
 a true red ZMN ( ie. Zubrinite Mars Nut ) will strive for full
 independence. 

>> Seeing a parallel between the US Wild West Frontier of the
>> the last millennium and the sand dunes of Mars to-day - as
>> 'Zubrinite Mars Nuts' undoubtedly do - is not quite the same
>> display of ignorance as having a vision of how to speed up
>> permanent human presence on Mars ( and the Moon ) through
>> one-way or open-return-ticket trips.
>>
>> In the case of Mars, one-way trips are likely to remain just
>> that. 
>
> They're likely not to exist. Why would anyone on the Earth
> pay for them for someone else? PS - Falcon 9 is likely to be
> about as cheap per kilo to orbit as can be done now.

 As this thread is all about the consequences of Martian
 microbial life, I think Earthlings would be more than
 willing to pay for voluntary human guinea-pigs testing out
 the dangers of life out there. 

>> In the case of the Moon, it's a damned lot easier to deliver
>> cargoes to the right location. That's why it's a possibility 
>> within the reign of the next US president - assuming he is
>> re-elected in 2012. Of course, the condition would be that 
>> trustworthy plans exist to pick up the early birds a few
>> years or so after lunar touchdown. - And by all means let
>> them be occupied with CAPS tasks in the meantime!
>
> If the implementation of CAPS is done correctly, then you
> pick up long term stay at little additional marginal cost.
> Whether that capability is worth it will be decided around
> 2025, or perhaps around 2017, in my opinion.
>
> Ed

 What's odd is that we don't yet have a clue, as to which
 agenda will eventually determine the location of the first
 lunar bases.

 CAPS doesn't warrant a race between nations for best site,
 but mining polar craters for ice and He3 might do. And
 that's when the landing of dedicated moontrotters totally
 cool in regard to plans for their homecoming could make
 a difference in securing their country the goodies.

--
Jens Kieffer-Olsen
Slagelse, Denmark
  



  

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