[FPSPACE] Dual Orion capsules studied for manned asteroidmissions

Thu Aug 20 19:59:18 EDT 2009

Mike:

Yes, absolutely. I tend to come down on the robot side in this forum, since it seems to tend toward the human side pretty strongly, but at work I'm one of those who argue with people on the robots-only side. Robot-human partnership in space is an old idea, but its most recent iteration owes much to the Decadal Planning Team exercise. 

Robots and humans are natural "Friends and Partners in Space."

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov

http://robotexplorers.blogspot.com/
http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/

> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:52:42 -0400
> From: mike at heney.net
> To: dsfportree at hotmail.com
> CC: ljk4 at msn.com; dstdba at post4.tele.dk; fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Dual Orion capsules studied for manned asteroidmissions
> 
> 
> It'd be kinda nice to have an on-site mechanic in case the machine flips 
> over, or to do maintenance when the "arcade" is closed ...
> 
> Both people and machines have their place in space. Either-or arguments 
> end up hurting both sides (since generally the choice ends up being 
> "neither" ...)
> 
> 
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, David Portree wrote:
> 
> >
> > Larry:
> >
> >
> >
> > The whole mission would be a gamble on many levels. Would they spend 
> > their entire joyous vacation throwing up? Will Mr. and Mrs. Wealthy 
> > Tourist have even a single bowel movement, given the lack of privacy? 
> > Will the tiny portholes frost over, denying them any view more sublime 
> > than their fellow passengers' bathroom habits? And, ultimately, will 
> > they (and thus the newborn industry) survive the flight?
> >
> >
> >
> > Whatever happened to the more realistic notion of launching a robot 
> > rover to another world and letting people pay to drive it? Seems to me 
> > that'd be a good first small step; that trying to run before we walk is 
> > going to lead to the equivalent of what my daughter experienced when she 
> > first started running. She would grin, moving along at a good clip - 
> > then her eyes would go wide as she realized that she couldn't turn very 
> > well. Being a really awful dad, I found the results pretty hysterical as 
> > I dove in to dry the tears and dispense the hugs.
> >
> >
> > David S. F. Portree
> >
> > dsfportree at hotmail.com
> > dportree at usgs.gov
> >
> > http://robotexplorers.blogspot.com/
> > http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/
> >
> > http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: ljk4 at msn.com
> >> To: dsfportree at hotmail.com; dstdba at post4.tele.dk; fpspace at friends-partners.org
> >> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:56:35 +0000
> >> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Dual Orion capsules studied for manned asteroidmissions
> >>
> >> There we go ~ watch some private space firm (or Russia) promote space as an exotic getaway for couples to experience all kinds of adventures in microgravity and the money will come rolling in as we establish a permanent beach head in the Final Frontier to support the industry. Throw in gambling too.
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: David Portree <dsfportree at hotmail.com>
> >>
> >> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:08:47
> >> To: <dstdba at post4.tele.dk>; <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Dual Orion capsules studied for manned asteroid
> >> missions
> >>
> >>
> >> Jens:
> >>
> >> Leaving aside your proposed plot for a science fiction movie (which has no where near enough sex in it to sell, by the way) - the piloted L point mission concept gained prominence first during the Decadal Planning Team exercise begun in 1999. They were desperately straining to come up with reasons to launch humans beyond LEO, but without breaking the bank (that is, without a moon landing). With the HST servicing missions in mind, they came up with deployment and servicing of large L point telescopes as a possible justification. It's not an entirely silly notion, though after all the scaredy-cat hemming and hawing and "rescue" preparations for the last HST servicing mission, it's hard to see how an even riskier mission to service a telescope at an L point could be justified.
> >>
> >> David S. F. Portree
> >>
> >> dsfportree at hotmail.com <mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com>
> >> dportree at usgs.gov <mailto:dportree at usgs.gov>
> >>
> >> http://robotexplorers.blogspot.com/ <http://robotexplorers.blogspot.com/>
> >> http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/ <http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/>
> >>
> >> http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/ <http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: dstdba at post4.tele.dk
> >>> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> >>> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:57:23 +0200
> >>> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Dual Orion capsules studied for manned asteroid missions
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: David Portree [mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:31 PM
> >>>
> >>>> Just because an asteroid passes one million kilometers from
> >>>> Earth doesn't mean one could reach it as easily or as quickly
> >>>> as an L point. Furthermore, not all asteroids are worth
> >>>> reaching, and this mission would focus on which are accessible
> >>>> by straining the Orion system, not on the value of the targets;
> >>>> basically, it'd be a stunt. Finally, for the cost of this stunt
> >>>> mission, we could send robot explorers to a dozen more interesting
> >>>> asteroids.
> >>>
> >>> Yes indeed, a mission without a concrete purpose is a stunt!
> >>>
> >>> Travelling to the Sun-Earth L2 point 1.5 million km away will not
> >>> be justified until a permanent base is planned. The only resource
> >>> there is sunlight. Hell, to paraphrase Robert Zubrin, it's a case
> >>> of 'living off the void'.
> >>>
> >>> It would make more sense to first practice one's station-keeping
> >>> skills at the Earth-Moon L2 point just 440,000 km away from home.
> >>> In fact, EML2 was recently proposed a potential staging node
> >>> for 'Back-to-the-Moon' missions.
> >>>
> >>> As for asteroids I could envisage a bold mission in 2029 to try
> >>> to capture Apophis! That year it's passing Earth closer than the
> >>> orbits of geostationary satellites, so if it were nudged slightly
> >>> beforehand, the slingshot effect of the pass could be tailored
> >>> to bring Apophis into Earth orbit as a captured moon on a future
> >>> encounter.
> >>>
> >>> Having not run this through a computer program, it's quite possible
> >>> that we would have to nudge the orbit of Apophis on several passes
> >>> in order to effectuate a capture, but the point remains that the
> >>> first nudge is asking to be carried out before 2029.
> >>>
> >>> Allow me to suggest that NASA right away spend a fair sum of
> >>> taxpayers' dollars on a feasibility study! And maybe some
> >>> environmental group could be persuaded to launch a 'No Asteroid
> >>> in my Backyard' campaign to attract publicity to the scheme!
> >>>
> >>> If Apophis could become the anchor point for the world's first
> >>> space elevator, it's time to act NOW!
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jens Kieffer-Olsen
> >>> Slagelse, Denmark
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> FPSPACE mailing list
> >>> FPSPACE at friends-partners.org
> >>> http://www.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo/fpspace
> >>
> >>
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