[FPSPACE] No money to put astronauts back on Moon by 2020; Moonnot a realistic goal--Augustine Panel

Sun Aug 16 23:57:47 EDT 2009

Chuck:

I'm pretty well known for being dubious about private spaceflight - google me and you'll find a post by Keith Cowing on my views, the title of which is wrong in every significant particular - except insofar as it's working on contract to governments (in which case we should go with the proven providers, not start-ups, unless it be for services the start-ups can provide which the proven providers cannot). I think that, if we're going to explore space, then governments will have to do it, since there's no easy money in space. I also think that that's OK, since one function of government is to do things that promote the general welfare. Space exploration falls into that category.

Apart from that, though, I agree with what you say. I sometimes entertain the notion of a NASA-to-something-else conversion a little like the NACA-to-NASA conversion. Maybe create a young and energetic new "Space Exploration Agency" and leave the deadwood behind in NASA. That'd reverse the NACA-to-NASA story; NASA took in DoD space elements in addition to NACA labs, but the "SEA" would leave out stuff unrelated to exploration.

Of course, that's pie in the sky. The bureaucracy is part of the equation we must master, not something we can ignore, disdain, or merely dream of snuffing.

David S. F. Portree

dsfportree at hotmail.com
dportree at usgs.gov

http://robotexplorers.blogspot.com/
http://beyondapollo.blogspot.com/

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/About/People/DavidPortree/

> From: cwdonald at ix.netcom.com
> To: dstdba at post4.tele.dk; fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:01:44 -0700
> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] No money to put astronauts back on Moon by 2020; Moonnot a realistic goal--Augustine Panel
> 
> Originally the NACA (NASA) was guided more toward aviation science, and some
> rocket technologies until Eisenhower responded to Sputnik. Then it became
> NASA.
> That goal was simply to show that American was just as technologically
> capable as the communist totalitarian dictatorship that held Soviet
> scientists as slaves and either sent them to the Gulag or killed them if
> they didn't behave. Granted that Apollo 11 was the greatest feat of the 20th
> century, but America should not have had to land on the moon to show the
> world we were better than the Soviet butchers.
> 
> Once the Apollo moon project was successful you note that historically the
> follow on moon shots were cancelled, derivative Apollo/Saturn projects were
> cut and an attempt was made to justify a federal budget to go to Mars. As
> all of you know the Shuttle was the remnants of the Mars program rejected by
> the Nixon administration. Earth satellite, shuttle supplies to the station
> and building the mars expedition manned problems. Once the budget was
> approved only Shuttle remained and "costs per pound" became the mantra.
> 
> Once Apollo was a success NASA became just another government bureaucracy
> trying to keep its budget, its people and tried to create programs to
> justify its government sponsorship. It did not go back to its roots, but was
> stuck with Shuttle and ended up pouring money to keep it afloat at the
> expense of more scientific projects that were not as glamorous as man in
> space.
> 
> NASA should be folded back to its NACA roots. If people want to go to the
> moon, Lagrange points or to Mars let them start bake sales and pay for it
> without taxes on top of taxes. Get with Virgin Airlines and see if they will
> sponsor a private venture fully paid for by volunteers. 
> 
> Scientists, engineers, technicians do not have the right to force the public
> to pay for their grand schemes no matter how important they may sound. "We
> all live on this Earth." Fine, but don't force me to support your asteroid
> projects to "save us all." Let the poor find their own shelters.
> 
> cwdonald
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fpspace-bounces at friends-partners.org
> [mailto:fpspace-bounces at friends-partners.org] On Behalf Of Jens
> Kieffer-Olsen
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:15 AM
> To: fpspace at friends-partners.org
> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] No money to put astronauts back on Moon by
> 2020;Moonnot a realistic goal--Augustine Panel
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Portree [mailto:dsfportree at hotmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:08 AM
> 
> > I don't think that asteroids - detection and deflection - offer
> > a challenge substantial enough to support our space program at
> > anything like its present level. In any case, our program
> > shouldn't be dominated by any one goal. What space has to offer
> > is diverse, so our program needs to be diverse. Of course, we
> > can't do everything there is to do. 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Asteroid deflection would constitute a very substantial challenge,
> if Apophis - or a similar-sized mate - were detected to be on track
> to collide with Earth this century.
> 
> Fortunately that scenario is very unlikely, and therefore it would
> be madness to spend money on asteroid deflection any time soon.
> 
> Asteroid detection costs peanuts in comparison, and makes extremely
> good sense to anyone who cares for the well-being of individual humans
> as well as for humanity as a whole. Once a small asteroid is detected
> and the impact area identified, ships can be notified and evacuation
> planned. 
> 
> So yes, I agree with you that space programs should be diverse. For
> one thing ISS offers a platform for experiments related to manned
> space travel. Odd that NASA seems heading for a situation where they
> need the Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy to make the small hop up
> there! 
> 
> --
> Jens Kieffer-Olsen
> Slagelse, Denmark
> 
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