[FPSPACE] NASA wary of relying on Russia

[Jakob Terweij]

I follow you Ed,
I am on the other side allready since beginning of seventies. Never  
had problems  with the people. Its the administration on both sides  
that keeps people apart.Look at the beginning of ISS   NASA was  
complaining that Russia was not up to its commitments (money) but they  
had a reason (economicly) Now i am not hearing Roscosmos complaining  
that Nasa in quiiting the ISS team. But Nasa is! 90 % of ISS is  
Russian made . Early in the program NAsa scrapped living quarters and  
othe inportant pieces of hardware. By this time many artonauts should  
be working in ISS. Who is to blame? Not Russia. And so on and so on
Energya was ready only Russia could not pay for it. With help from ESA  
and Nasa the Russians could have build ISS in half the time . Maybe  
moon  and Mars travel . But no no help  kill the scientist in Russia  
and build western hardware for these programs. But when they will be  
ready . Long after Shuttle is gone? The Russian system was ready and  
flying . Why waste the work of thousands of good man and woman. Only  
because they live in Russia??
Many years ago I myself was a member of a political party . I was high  
in youth department. But soon I learned that politics is business.   
Nobody is interested in the welfare of the people. The same was  
between the east and west . They militarised and boycot each other  
till they were almost broke. And nothing for the people.  Lets hope we  
all will learn from this and keep visiting each other . Than you  
realize we are all the same. Politics like religion keeps you  
surpressed.
Jakob



Quoting Edwin Cameron <nodin at sbcglobal.net>:

> Thank you, Kir,
>
>   I have included the whole entry which you wrote, but moved your
>   final comments and questiions up to the top.  It is a pity that
>   even with official cooperation between the United States and
>   Russia that there ramains so much distrust on both sides.  The
>   engineers and scientists from around the world could most likely
>   work in harmony if there were no politicians.
>
>   The Russians that I have met are no different from people from
>   across the globe.  The Russians are not evil, but maybe the empire
>   was.  Americans, likewise, are not evil, but the fears of American
>   politicians to lose significant superiority in space could revive many
>   elements of the Cold War.  As one of many who studied Soviet and
>   Russian space in the highest levels of American intelligence, this
>   view makes no sense.  While America may have been able to build
>   some very sophisticated space machinery to do a job, so have the
>   Soviets and Russians.  As a young man in the intelligence game, I
>   was repeatedly told that the Russians could not do this thing or that
>   because their technology was so inferrior to ours.  In fact, it became
>   a quest and a challenge to me to point out how far these "Russians"
>   were ahead of America in meeting purpose and goal with respect to
>   missiles, rockets and space machines.  Not one US Shuttle could fly
>   two orbits and land with no astronaut aboard.  The USSR could produce
>   large crystal Gallium Arsenide long before the US, and perfected many
>   Titanium processes which have still not been equaled.  The list of things
>   could go on and on where technology transfer was TO the US.  So, where
>   is this significant superiority -- taking license plate pictures   
> from space?
>   When the Russians had a need, they met that need.  When America
>   had a need, most often they studied it until the need had passed or had
>   morphed into something that could do everything, but didn't work.  Do you
>   remember the space station called Freedom?  Of course going to the
>   Moon was a great achievement, but what has happened since.    
> America's superiority certainly is not in maintaining obrital   
> platforms, or keeping a
>   manned presence in space for what ever the reasons.
>
>   Perhaps it was outspoken realization of this, more so that anything else,
>   that caused me to lose that most exciting intelligence job.  But,   
> I for one,
>   want to thank the Russians and the N1 for putting a dozen men on the Moon.
>   I thank the Russians also for keeping ISS alive in the face of their own
>   economic disasters and recession.
>
>   If the cooperation which was sought by Dr. G.I. Severin and Professors from
>   Moscow Aviation Institute had been accomplished in 1990, and again  
>  sought in
>   1991 by engineers and constructors such as Dr. V.K. Karrask, I   
> have no doubt
>   that Energiya would have already made trips to the Moon, and would  
>  be preparing
>   either to go to, or return from, Mars.  Instead, now America is   
> decrying its own
>   near-sightednes, afraid that someone else, perhaps even China, may  
>  take a lead
>   that may never have been real or significant in the first place.
>
>   Just the humble opinion of a "disgruntled" former intelligence   
> officer and rocket
>   scientist!  Have a wonderful day.  And, thanks again, Kir!
>
>   Edwin Neal Cameron
>
>   ----- snip -----
>   So, what?  Do not pay "the Russians" and work your problem.  If you
> don't like it then do it better if you can!
>
> Are "the Russians" evil?  Are they still?  Why are they and why are
> they still?  "The Russians" make their best to help "the Americans" to
>   cover their ass.
>
> But the story is really funny for the now very moment...
>
> Kir
>   ----- end snip -----
>
>
>   Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 06:17:02 +0300
> From: "Kirill Simon" <kirill at safebox.ru>
> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] NASA wary of relying on Russia
> To: <fpspace at friends-partners.org>
> Message-ID: <003701c88194$17ae4920$ba00160a at new>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>> NASA wary of relying on Russia
>> Moscow soon to be lone carrier of astronauts to the space station
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23512686
>
> This article and statements there are really funny in terms of
> unforeseeably expected result!  Nice!
>
>> 'Serious threat to our national security'
>> NASA Administrator Michael Griffin calls the situation his
>> "greatest regret and greatest concern." For most of the
>> five-year gap, he said, "we will be largely dependent
>> on the Russians, and that is terrible place for the United
>> States to be. I'm worried, and many others are worried."
>
> Wow!  Really...?!  Where were you, guys, in the days prior to?
>
>> Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), chairman of the subcommittee
>> that oversees NASA, went further. "This is a very serious
>> betrayal of American interests," he said. "This will be the
>> first time since Sputnik when the United States will not
>> have a significant space superiority. I remain dumbfounded
>> that we've allowed this serious threat to our national
>> security to develop."
>
> So, what?
>
>> "Is there a risk that we won't succeed? Yes, there is,"
>> said Musk, co-founder of the PayPal online payment
>> system. "But if the United States doesn't provide any
>> competition to the Russians, then they have a monopoly
>> on crew transport to the station and they can dictate their
>> terms. Do taxpayers really want all that money to go to
>> Russia, rather than to an American company with
>> American workers?"
>
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Jakob Terweij
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