[FPSPACE] Spaceflight statistics (...or should we say space missions?)
Rui C. Barbosa
Rui C. Barbosa" <rui_barbosa@clix.pt
Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:29:17 +0100
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Hi!
This is the eternal problem of considering or not the Soyuz flights
Soyuz-18A and Soyuz T-10A has space missions. The problem with Soyuz-18A =
was
the sparation failure between the first and second stage of the Soyuz
booster. The capsule went on a ballistic flight before returning to =
Earth. I
consider this a space flight ... a short one! On Soyuz T-10A there was a
problem with the launcher on the pad, the emergency escape system was
activated and the capsule landed a few miles from the exploding rocket. =
I
think this cannot be considered a space flight.
Also, the first two Mercury flights are spaceflights if not Alan Shepard
wouldn't be the first american in space.
So there were:
6 Mercury
10 Gemini
11 Apollo
3 Skylab
1 ASTP
108 Shuttle (51L was not a spaceflight)
139
6 Vostok
2 Voskhod
37 Soyuz (Soyuz-2, Soyuz-20 and Soyuz-34 were unmanned)
14 Soyuz T
33 Soyuz TM
92
Well, the basic problem is the definition of spaceflight and space =
mission,
and the agreement, or not, that some missions can be accounted for the
statistics. If we think about spaceflight we first have to define when a
flight is spaceflight, because this is the real essence of it all. =
But!!!
Before writing all of this, we should ask: where does space begins? =
Right
above the ground? Where the atmosphere ends? Do we use the USAF 80 Km =
(50
miles) definition or the FAI 100 Km (62 miles) altitude definition? Were
some X-15 missions, spaceflights? If the answer is yes, then we have to
change all the statistics!!!!
If we say that a spaceflight is the same as a space mission, then we =
have to
consider all the human attempts to reach space (and also to consider if =
some
X-15 flights were spaceflights). Imagine that we do agree that the X-15
missions that we could consider as spaceflights, were not spaceflights!
Then, we have to have an agreement about the definition that we want to =
use,
that is, are we going to count the spaceflights or the space missions? =
If we
consider only spaceflights, then we cannot count for the statistics some
missions has Soyuz T-10A or STS-51L (we can say that MR-3, MR-4 and
Soyuz-18A, were spaceflights because they crossed the proposed limit, by
definition, of space). But, if we consider the space missions (that is,
human flights that have attempted to reach space) then we have to say =
that
the above numbers are incorret.
This is a subject that already had a debate in this list, but I think we
could speak a little more about this.
Rui C. Barbosa - Braga - Portugal
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
___
Rui C. Barbosa
Rua J=FAlio Lima, n.=BA 12 - 2=BA
PT 4700-393 BRAGA
PORTUGAL
Tel: 00 351 253 27 41 46
Telm: 00 351 93 845 03 05
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lawrence" <Brian_W_Lawrence@msn.com>
To: <fpspace@friends-partners.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Statistics on next Soyuz mission?
> From: "Robert Pearlman" <robert@collectspace.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Statistics on next Soyuz mission?
>
>
> > To answer your questions:
> >
> > > The next Soyuz is what numbered human orbital mission?
> >
> > (cannot seem to find this figure)
>
> USA 4 Mercury
> 10 Gemini
> 15 Apollo
> 108 Shuttle
> ---
> 137
>
> USSR/Russia 6 Vostok
> 2 Voskhod
> 38 Soyuz
> 14 Soyuz-T
> 33 Soyuz-TM
> ---
> 93
>
> Making 230 in total (I think).
>
> Brian Lawrence
> Brian_W_Lawrence@msn.com
> Wantage, Oxfordshire, UK
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> FPSPACE@friends-partners.org
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>
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>Hi!<BR><BR>This is the eternal =
problem of=20
considering or not the Soyuz flights<BR>Soyuz-18A and Soyuz T-10A has =
space=20
missions. The problem with Soyuz-18A was<BR>the sparation failure =
between the=20
first and second stage of the Soyuz<BR>booster. The capsule went on a =
ballistic=20
flight before returning to Earth. I<BR>consider this a space flight ... =
a short=20
one! On Soyuz T-10A there was a<BR>problem with the launcher on the pad, =
the=20
emergency escape system was<BR>activated and the capsule landed a few =
miles from=20
the exploding rocket. I<BR>think this cannot be considered a space=20
flight.<BR><BR>Also, the first two Mercury flights are spaceflights if =
not Alan=20
Shepard<BR>wouldn't be the first american in space.<BR><BR>So there=20
were:<BR><BR>6 Mercury<BR>10 Gemini<BR>11 Apollo<BR>3 Skylab<BR>1 =
ASTP<BR>108=20
Shuttle (51L was not a spaceflight)<BR><BR>139<BR><BR>6 Vostok<BR>2=20
Voskhod<BR>37 Soyuz (Soyuz-2, Soyuz-20 and Soyuz-34 were unmanned)<BR>14 =
Soyuz=20
T<BR>33 Soyuz TM<BR><BR>92<BR><BR>Well, the basic problem is the =
definition of=20
spaceflight and space mission,<BR>and the agreement, or not, that some =
missions=20
can be accounted for the<BR>statistics. If we think about spaceflight we =
first=20
have to define when a<BR>flight is spaceflight, because this is the real =
essence=20
of it all. But!!!<BR>Before writing all of this, we should ask: where =
does space=20
begins? Right<BR>above the ground? Where the atmosphere ends? Do we use =
the USAF=20
80 Km (50<BR>miles) definition or the FAI 100 Km (62 miles) altitude =
definition?=20
Were<BR>some X-15 missions, spaceflights? If the answer is yes, then we =
have=20
to<BR>change all the statistics!!!!<BR><BR>If we say that a spaceflight =
is the=20
same as a space mission, then we have to<BR>consider all the human =
attempts to=20
reach space (and also to consider if some<BR>X-15 flights were =
spaceflights).=20
Imagine that we do agree that the X-15<BR>missions that we could =
consider as=20
spaceflights, were not spaceflights!<BR>Then, we have to have an =
agreement about=20
the definition that we want to use,<BR>that is, are we going to count =
the=20
spaceflights or the space missions? If we<BR>consider only spaceflights, =
then we=20
cannot count for the statistics some<BR>missions has Soyuz T-10A or =
STS-51L (we=20
can say that MR-3, MR-4 and<BR>Soyuz-18A, were spaceflights because they =
crossed=20
the proposed limit, by<BR>definition, of space). But, if we consider the =
space=20
missions (that is,<BR>human flights that have attempted to reach space) =
then we=20
have to say that<BR>the above numbers are incorret.<BR><BR>This is a =
subject=20
that already had a debate in this list, but I think we<BR>could speak a =
little=20
more about this.<BR><BR>Rui C. Barbosa - Braga -=20
Portugal<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________=
___________________<BR>___<BR><BR><BR>Rui=20
C. Barbosa<BR>Rua J=FAlio Lima, n.=BA 12 - 2=BA<BR>PT 4700-393=20
BRAGA<BR>PORTUGAL<BR><BR>Tel: 00 351 253 27 41 46<BR>Telm: 00 351 93 845 =
03=20
05<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Brian Lawrence" =
<</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Brian_W_Lawrence@msn.com"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Brian_W_Lawrence@msn.com</FONT></A><FONT size=3D3>><BR>To: =
<</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:fpspace@friends-partners.org"><FONT=20
size=3D3>fpspace@friends-partners.org</FONT></A><FONT =
size=3D3>><BR>Sent:=20
Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:35 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] Statistics =
on next=20
Soyuz mission?<BR><BR><BR>> From: "Robert Pearlman" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:robert@collectspace.com"><FONT=20
size=3D3>robert@collectspace.com</FONT></A><FONT size=3D3>><BR>> =
Sent:=20
Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:16 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] =
Statistics on=20
next Soyuz mission?<BR>><BR>><BR>> > To answer your=20
questions:<BR>> ><BR>> > > The next Soyuz is what =
numbered human=20
orbital mission?<BR>> ><BR>> > (cannot seem to find this=20
figure)<BR>><BR>> USA 4 =20
Mercury<BR>> 10 =20
Gemini<BR>> 15 =20
Apollo<BR>> 108 =20
Shuttle<BR>> =20
---<BR>> 137<BR>><BR>>=20
USSR/Russia 6 =20
Vostok<BR>>  =
; =20
2 =20
Voskhod<BR>> &nbs=
p; =20
38 =20
Soyuz<BR>> =
=20
14 =20
Soyuz-T<BR>> &nbs=
p; =20
33 =20
Soyuz-TM<BR>> &nb=
sp; =20
---<BR>> &n=
bsp; =20
93<BR>><BR>> Making 230 in total (I think).<BR>><BR>> Brian=20
Lawrence<BR>> </FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:Brian_W_Lawrence@msn.com"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Brian_W_Lawrence@msn.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT size=3D3>> =
Wantage,=20
Oxfordshire, UK<BR>><BR>><BR>> ---<BR>> Outgoing mail is =
certified=20
Virus Free.<BR>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.grisoft.com"><FONT=20
size=3D3>http://www.grisoft.com</FONT></A><FONT size=3D3>).<BR>> =
Version: 6.0.343=20
/ Virus Database: 190 - Release Date: 22/03/2002<BR>><BR>>=20
_______________________________________________<BR>> FPSPACE mailing=20
list<BR>> </FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:FPSPACE@friends-partners.org"><FONT=20
size=3D3>FPSPACE@friends-partners.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT size=3D3>> =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace">=
<FONT=20
size=3D3>http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace<=
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