From chenlan@mbox2.singnet.com.sg Wed Nov 1 00:50:11 2000 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:50:11 +0800 From: Chen Lan chenlan@mbox2.singnet.com.sg Subject: [FPSPACE] Shenzhou 2 Launch Imminent,Chinese Manned Space Program Targets the Moon > I don't think they are going to be realistically considering a moon > mission any time soon. > > > > DDAY Agree with you. If you notice the Chinese original reports, all these ambitious plans were from speeches or interviews with Chinese space officials. The words they used are very careful and blur. However media (first Chinese media then western media) added their own interpretion and imaginations and at last these plans became "official". Chen Lan From powellj@ucalgary.ca Wed Nov 1 01:34:29 2000 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:34:29 -0700 (MST) From: Joel Powell powellj@ucalgary.ca Subject: [FPSPACE] Soyuz TM31 Trivia Update? In wake of the beautiful ascent into the fog at Baikonur this morning, I was hoping to get an update on a few points of trivia regarding the launch. Is Soyuz TM31 vehicle number 204 (or 205?) What about the serial number of the Soyuz rocket itself? Anybody have a handle on that one? I believe that Soyuz launches to the stations have a very short launch window - is it on the order of one second or so? Could someone clarify the launch window for TM31? Thanks Joel Powell From M.Wade@iaea.org Wed Nov 1 07:28:49 2000 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:28:49 +0100 From: M.Wade@iaea.org M.Wade@iaea.org Subject: [FPSPACE] Shenzhou 2 Launch Imminent,Chinese Manned Space Pro gram Targets the Moon I agree that there is no likelihood of an imminent lunar program, based on the parsimonious funding given by the Chinese to the manned space program at present. But on the other hand the use of this diorama as one of the main themes of the Expo 2000 pavillion (the other was the Three Gorges Dam) should indicate that this is indeed an official long-range goal/intention. At present China appears to me to be the best hope for manned expansion off the earth in our (or at least my) lifetime - it is the only space power to even consider manned expansion into space beyond LEO as a current national goal. With the publication this week of Gertz' 'Red Menace'-type book, continued expansion of the Chinese economy, Chinese-as-villains along the lines of Clancy's latest opus, etc -- I have to say it still sounds to me like rather chilling echoes of the beginnings of the US-Soviet cold war - and an attendant new space race? If you think it can't happen soon, just think of the other fracture lines of recent history when changes in the international order occurred very quickly - 1946 to 1950, 1989 to 1994.... ========================== Mark Wade > > I don't think they are going to be realistically considering a moon > > mission any time soon. > > > > > > > > DDAY > From kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Wed Nov 1 09:01:19 2000 Date: 1 Nov 2000 11:01:19 +0200 From: Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Subject: [FPSPACE] MirCorp & private sector RLVs The big MirCorp-killer, & killer of other private sector space travel companies, has always been the lack of RLVs that meet the space shuttle's original, TSTO specs: to be one order of magnitude, & a.s.a.p. two orders of magnitude, lower in cost than current "used only once by a little old lady to get to LEO" rockets. Many FPSPACE-ers no doubt have already read the following item. For those who have not, it at least provides a financial lifeline to keep Kistler in the running, however far behind VentureStar - & whatever Boeing's number-crunchers have in mind for their 60 ton thrust H2O5 engine. It also shows the attitude difference Dwayne noted between ideological, free marketeer NASA-bashers, vs. the attitude of real business corporations, happy to get any contracts - whether in a private market (eg., OSC's Pegsus-X from comsat launchers), or a quasi-market, as contractors to a business-friendly Government & its business-friendly NASA. See paragraph 5. > "Kistler Hopes NASA Study Will Give K-1 A Boost > Kirkland - August 24, 2000 - > Kistler Aerospace Corp. has been awarded a contract by NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center > (MSFC) to conduct a study for Alternate Access to the International Space Station (ISS). > The Alternate Access to Station (AAS) study, part of NASA's Space Launch Initiative program, > will assess U.S. contingency options to the ISS. > The ISS nominally uses the Space Shuttle or internationally contributed foreign launch systems to > deliver cargo to the ISS. NASA is interested in studying potential augmentation of these resupply > methods with emerging launch service providers. This augmentation is envisioned to enhance > ISS operability. > During the three-month study, Kistler will develop and submit to NASA a detailed roadmap > showing how the K-1 can become a viable choice to meet NASA's ISS contingency resupply > needs. > "NASA is very supportive of the U.S. emerging launch vehicle providers. In this solicitation, we > particularly wanted to hear from small businesses such as Kistler," said Dan Dumbacher, > manager of the 2nd Generation Reusable Launch Vehicle Program at NASA's Marshall Space > Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. > "We have received very innovative proposals and look forward to the results of the AAS study > such that we can move forward with the Alternate Access Project of the Space Launch > initiative." As the world's first commercial fully reusable launch vehicle, the K-1 provides a unique > capability to augment NASA's resupply strategies for the ISS. ..... [ snip ] ..... > Kistler has fewer than 50 employees and is a privately funded U.S. company with corporate > offices in Kirkland, Wash., and executive offices in Los Angeles. .... [ snip ] ....... Orbital flight tests > and commercial operations will be conducted from Woomera, Australia, followed by the > commencement of commercial operations from the Nevada Test Site." Maybe in the next decade, MirCorp or its successors will have one market-killer removed? Keith Gottschalk From kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Wed Nov 1 09:52:19 2000 Date: 1 Nov 2000 11:52:19 +0200 From: Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Subject: [FPSPACE] the thin, frail thread of space budgets Dwayne Day wrote: >"human space exploration is largely an >aberration, a "Cold War echo" that still resonates, but does not have >to. It is entirely conceivable that the world could stop sending humans >into space for several decades before deciding to do so once again. We >could give up on ISS as not worth the cost and sit on the dirt for a few >decades before deciding to go again. Right now, the only thing that keeps >us sending humans up there is the inertia from a dead superpower struggle, >not science, not the desire to explore, not anything terribly noble in >itself." To a political cientist, & Joanne G. as well, this has enough weight as truth to be creepy ! I think another element is that like Antarctic bases, there IS a scientific community interest in it. Of course, running the South Pole, Bryd & McMurdo Sound bases costs a lot less than the ISS. So let's cheer on 2nd generation RLVs. From bhen@tijd.com Wed Nov 1 13:17:32 2000 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:17:32 +0100 From: Bart Hendrickx bhen@tijd.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M-1 leaving ISS David Anderman wrote : >Progress M1 is leaving ISS to allow Soyuz to dock with the Service Module. >How will future Progress vehicles dock with ISS assuming that a Soyuz will >be attached to the SM for a while? Will they dock with the SM or FGB nadir >ports? Are the necessary hybrid docking adaptors available for Progress? If >so, how could MirCorp possibly hope to re-direct any of those >hybrid-equipped Progresses to fly to Mir? The next Progress, set for mid-November, will dock with the FGB nadir port. The FGB nadir port is a traditional Mir-type "active-passive" docking system (SSVP as the Russians call it), just like the aft port of Zvezda. So I suppose that any Progress designed to fly to those two ports is interchangeable with Mir. The only hybrid ports (SSVP-M in Russian short) are the aft port of Zarya and the front, zenith and nadir ports of Zvezda. Zvezda's zenith port will only be used for the Russian power platform and the nadir port is to receive the Docking Module and later on the Universal Docking Module. The Docking Module will be delivered by a detachable Soyuz/Progress service module, which, once jettisoned, will open up an aft docking port for Soyuz/Progress, which I think is also of the traditional SSVP type. Since it will be a while before any permanent modules are attached to the Zarya nadir port, this can continue to be used for Progress dockings for the foreseeable future. >WIll NASA really let RSA experiment with hybrid-equipped Progresses attempting to dock with a nadir >port at ISS? The launch of Progress M1-4 was originally set for September, inbetween STS-106 and STS-92. I understand it was delayed to November to make sure that the Expedition One crew was on board to take over the docking operation with TORU in case of problems. Bart Hendrickx From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Wed Nov 1 13:38:11 2000 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 08:38:11 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] The Next Space Race? (was Shenzhou 2 Launch On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 M.Wade@iaea.org wrote: > But on the other hand the use of this diorama as one of the main themes of > the Expo 2000 pavillion (the other was the Three Gorges Dam) should indicate > that this is indeed an official long-range goal/intention. I don't agree that a model at a pavillion indicates official policy. The people putting together the pavillion display may have simply wanted something bold and exciting that implied a glorious technological future. Past World Fairs are littered with impressive "future plans" that never turned into anything. (Or, as one prominent space policy wonk asked me: "It's the year 2000--how come my car doesn't fly?") > At present China appears to me to be the best hope for manned expansion off > the earth in our (or at least my) lifetime - it is the only space power to > even consider manned expansion into space beyond LEO as a current national > goal. We do not know this. This model could be entirely unconnected from any realistic plans. NASA has long churned out viewgraphs of manned Mars missions. Did they represent "current national goals"? Japan used to produce flyers of its HOPE spaceplane, complete with windows. And we know that the Soviets often displayed models and other objects that bore no relation to their actual plans (look at the story of the Global Rocket that was exhibited at a parade *precisely because* Khrushchev had no plans to build it. It makes no sense to draw solid lines from such immaterial starting points. I think it is a mistake to think of communist authoritarian regimes as completely monolithic. We play the old Kremlinology Game of trying to figure out what is going on based upon who stands next to who at parades, or turning plastic models into official government policy. Why should we assume that a model indicates a high-level approval? The top leaders of the Communist Party do not have to approve every pavillion display. > the lines of Clancy's latest opus, etc -- I have to say it still > sounds to me like rather chilling echoes of the beginnings of the > US-Soviet cold war - and an attendant new space race? > > If you think it can't happen soon, just think of the other fracture lines of > recent history when changes in the international order occurred very quickly > - 1946 to 1950, 1989 to 1994.... Even if US-China relations were to get much chillier, there is absolutely no reason to expect a new space race. I think that this is a common delusion among space activists. I remember hearing people say it in the 1980s--speculating (hoping) that a Russian manned Mars mission would prompt more NASA spending and a "race to Mars." I remember hearing people in the early 1990s warning that Japan was about to take off in space and challenge the US for "superiority" (a word that used to be common in US space policy documents). Now we have China to shake us out of our boring complacency in low earth orbit. The space race of the 1950s and 1960s--particularly the decision to go to the moon--was a unique event. It was a confluence of many factors, including, most particularly, people. It is not repeatable. If China were to assume a greater space presence, why would we assume that the US response would be a return to the Moon and a mission to Mars? Why not assume that the US would deploy space-based lasers and a missile defense? (Certainly that would be a greater interest for Republicans.) And why is a nationalistic space race even desirable, especially if it is the result of increased tensions in the world? Yeah, it would be neat to race back to the Moon. But would we be willing to pay for this with more Chinese nukes pointed at Western cities? DDAY From bhen@tijd.com Wed Nov 1 13:18:52 2000 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:18:52 +0100 From: Bart Hendrickx bhen@tijd.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Soyuz TM31 Trivia Update? Joel Powell wrote : >Is Soyuz TM31 vehicle number 204 (or 205?) It's 205. From lklaes@bbn.com Wed Nov 1 19:16:30 2000 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:16:30 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Perhaps this is just a trick of perspective... ...but those folks watching the liftoff of ISS Expedition 1 seem awfully close to the rocket in this image: http://www.floridatoday.com/space/explore/images/2000b/exp1launche.jpg I know that Russians are a tough and hardy people, but wow! :^) Larry From JamesOberg@aol.com Wed Nov 1 19:54:05 2000 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:54:05 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Perhaps this is just a trick of perspective... In a message dated 11/1/00 1:19:54 PM Central Standard Time, lklaes@bbn.com writes: << ...but those folks watching the liftoff of ISS Expedition 1 seem awfully close to the rocket in this image: >> The observation point IS pretty close, less than a kilometer. When I've watched the Soyuz vehicles claimb into the sky, I've been shocked to have to tilt my head back much much farther than at KSC, where you're at least 5 km away, sometimes a lot more, and the pitchover occurs at an elevation angle of closer to 60 degrees -- at Baikonur, I'd say it was 80 degrees since I was closer to the base of the trajectory. From davida@cwo.com Thu Nov 2 01:01:51 2000 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 17:01:51 -0800 From: David Anderman davida@cwo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] FGB ports Bart: Thanks for the information, which implies that the FGB contains 3 different docking systems - APAS, to connect to the Unity Node - Probe and Cone at the nadir port to connect with Progress, and Hybrid, to connect with the Service Module. Does anyone know why the Service Module's nadir port is Hybrid, but the FGB nadir port is Probe and Cone? DWA At 02:17 PM 11/1/2000 +0100, Bart Hendrickx wrote: >The next Progress, set for mid-November, will dock with the FGB nadir port. >The FGB nadir port is a traditional Mir-type "active-passive" docking system >(SSVP as the Russians call it), just like the aft port of Zvezda. From dm.harland@cableol.co.uk Thu Nov 2 13:35:40 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:35:40 +0000 From: David M Harland dm.harland@cableol.co.uk Subject: [FPSPACE] Do the Chinese plan to go to the Moon? Do the Chinese plan to go to the Moon? One indication might be that the Chinese publisher, Nunan Educational Publishing House has secured through the Shanghai Copyright Agency the rights to translate my 'Exploring The Moon - The Apollo Expeditions'. So at least they'll know how to conduct field geology when they get there! dmh From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Thu Nov 2 19:21:25 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:21:25 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha I'm surprised I have not seen any comment on this here yet. When the Expedition One crew entered the ISS last night they requested that they be allowed to refer to the station as Space Station Alpha. This was apparently a universal decision of the crew. Dan Goldin was suprised, but agreed with the radio call sign for now. Apparently the Russians don't like this, since it implied that ISS is the first station. They apparently prefer Beta or even Mir 2. Frankly, I think Alpha is rather boring. But I think that the most appropriate name for the ISS is not printable... DDAY From Les.Fetter@SW.Boeing.com Thu Nov 2 19:26:20 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:26:20 -0600 From: Fetter, Les S Les.Fetter@SW.Boeing.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha Their request seems to me to be a well deserved swipe at the powers-that-be for still not coming up with a real name for the "ship". Are they waiting for an EVA-compatible bottle of Champagne? Les Fetter > -----Original Message----- > From: Dwayne Allen Day [SMTP:wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu] > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 1:21 PM > To: fpspace@friends-partners.org > Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha > > > I'm surprised I have not seen any comment on this here yet. > > When the Expedition One crew entered the ISS last night they requested > that they be allowed to refer to the station as Space Station Alpha. This > was apparently a universal decision of the crew. Dan Goldin was suprised, > but agreed with the radio call sign for now. Apparently the Russians > don't like this, since it implied that ISS is the first station. They > apparently prefer Beta or even Mir 2. > > Frankly, I think Alpha is rather boring. But I think that the most > appropriate name for the ISS is not printable... > > > > DDAY > > > > > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace From lklaes@bbn.com Thu Nov 2 19:41:53 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:41:53 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha Well, it beats the Reagan name of Freedom. Just think, we could have had World Peace (the two meanings of Mir) and Freedom circling our planet every 90 minutes. Hoy. You would think for $60 billion that they could have come up with a simple name in the meantime. Ah well, even the big spinning wheel in 2001: A Space Odyssey was simply known as Space Station V (where were the other four?). Ah, 1968, when we dreamed big. How about O'Neill, after the guy who promoted those big space cities in the 1970s (it could be touted as the first of the space colonies Gerard envisioned). And since his name is Irish, it would keep that international flavor as well. :^) http://www.ssi.org/ Has anything been named for Tsiolkovsky yet? He would certainly qualify. http://sr11.xoom.com/aeronautic/tsiolk/ Or how about Stepping Stone or Visitor Parking Only? Larry At 02:21 PM 11/02/2000 -0500, Dwayne Allen Day wrote: >I'm surprised I have not seen any comment on this here yet. > >When the Expedition One crew entered the ISS last night they requested >that they be allowed to refer to the station as Space Station Alpha. This >was apparently a universal decision of the crew. Dan Goldin was suprised, >but agreed with the radio call sign for now. Apparently the Russians >don't like this, since it implied that ISS is the first station. They >apparently prefer Beta or even Mir 2. > >Frankly, I think Alpha is rather boring. But I think that the most >appropriate name for the ISS is not printable... > > > >DDAY > > > > >_______________________________________________ >FPSPACE mailing list >FPSPACE@friends-partners.org >http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From JamesOberg@aol.com Thu Nov 2 20:01:30 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:01:30 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha What's this story that "Alpha" was a symbol to the ancient Greeks about where people went into heaven, or something like that? I've heard various garbled versions of this reference to classical mythology. From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Thu Nov 2 20:04:24 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 21:04:24 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha When MSNBC proposed to name the station, many came up with ideas and I'm ROTFL about this (yes, november 1): http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-space/posts/xc/87955.asp Cheers, Raoul From cpvick@fas.org Thu Nov 2 20:12:45 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:12:45 -0500 From: Charles P. Vick cpvick@fas.org Subject: [FPSPACE] Time To Declassify Historical Imagery Space News Op-ed, November 6, 2000 By Charles P. Vick, Senior Research Analyst, Space Defense Policy office at the Federation of American Scientists. Time To Declassify Historical Imagery Since the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) released Corona satellite imagery — the nation’s first photo reconnaissance satellite system — in February 1995, there has been an unprecedented impact on environmental studies, urban planning, and legal documentation for the insurance industry, along with documentation of history. Corona imagery also has provided priceless insight into foreign strategic programs of various nations, including North Korea, The Peoples Republic of China, Taiwan, Pakistan, India, the former Soviet Union and Iran, among others. This declassification has truly fulfilled much more than expected. Corona imagery, combined with U-2 imagery and the still yet-to-be-declassified follow-on film-based imagery could provide scientists with an unprecedented, critical historical record of what Earth looked like and how it has changed. While the CIA and National Reconnaissance Office have been openly hoping for the declassification of the Gambit and Hexagon imagery since October 1997, it has yet to be fulfilled and is not expected until the of fall of 2001, if ever. It is now in the hands of the director of Central Intelligence. . These delays in the release of the follow-on imagery systems, a pattern of repeated broken promises throughout the declassification programs, discourages serious research and remains very perplexing. In fact, the intelligence community’s priority is current events information. History takes second place to that priority. Furthermore, it is quite expensive to maintain classified records. U.S. President Bill Clinton’s Executive Order 12951 required that a review decision by the director of Central Intelligence on further declassifications of imagery be conducted on or before Feb. 22, 2000. To date there is no evidence to suggest such a decision has been made or is forth coming. The lack of a continual presidential directive to require that the intelligence community get moving on this has allowed the community to get away with ignoring the issue. While the CIA was the owner of the Corona and U-2 imagery, it is not the controlling organization for the Gambit/KH-7, Gambit/KH-8 and Hexagon/KH-9 film-based imagery. The National Imagery and Mapping Agency is the controlling agency, but the declassification decision is in the hands of the director of Central Intelligence. The question has become, does the Clinton administration still have the leadership to see this through to completion before leaving office? A close examination of the precise legal language of certain sections of Executive Order 12951 is very revealing on the future prospects of the imagery declassification. Most telling of all is the statement that indicates that only broad-area film-return systems will be considered for declassification. That means the medium-high-resolution KH-7/Gambit imagery will probably be considered because it is the oldest medium-high-resolution imagery acquired. It also means that the medium-resolution KH-9A & B/Hexagon imagery of a lesser quality than the KH-7 imagery will be considered for declassification. It is unlikely that any of the very high-resolution Gambit/KH-8 imagery will be released without a major change in declassification policy. This will have a major impact on the historical documentation of events. Why the intelligence community could not continue to have access to this Gambit high-resolution, Gambit very high-resolution and Hexagon medium-resolution imagery for themselves while it is also available for the public remains incomprehensible to me. The intelligence community needs to realize that these reconnaissance satellite images document history that cannot otherwise be documented. It represents a particularly significant source of certainty of historical events in countries such as the former Soviet Union and China, and there are critical lessons to be learned from this imagery. It alone, is the only way available to accomplish this as a cross check on the accuracy of Russian historic documentation statements. For example, this is especially true when looking into the the Soviet Union’ s manned lunar programs. The official records of the former Soviet Union are being contradicted by the Corona imagery. We can only begin to wonder what the Gambit and Hexagon imagery will reveal beyond what Corona imagery has shown. . It seems only logical that researchers should have access to Gambit and Hexagon imagery, regardless of the objections raised by the intelligence community. This is true, especially in the wake of the commercially available 1-meter satellite imagery . It seems that because of the lack of congressional funding and political will, there will be no film-based imagery declassification, even though a large portion of this imagery is more than 25 years old. Apart from the absence of compelling security barriers to the release of various imagery and analytical products, the now operational commercial imagery satellite systems provide a compelling incentive for the release of the remaining archival film-based imagery. The practical utility of this new commercial imagery will be vastly enhanced by comparing it to the historical imagery. Everyone concerned acknowledges Corona imagery and the follow-on systems is a unique resource which security researchers and analysts have barely begun to exploit. The original promise of openness has not been realized. Surely the intelligence communities, Congress and the president can do better by the the citizens of the United States. My only other comment is that: It is fascinating that Russia has launched on Proton ISS & Commercial payloads from the Proton/Zond launch site 81 L, R of the manned lunar circumnavigation program, the direct competitor to Apollo-8 & many people have toured the Energia/Buran launch facility site of the TT-05/N1-L3 Soviet manned lunar landing program on the Baikonur Cosmodrome but we can not have the Gambit and Hexagon imagery access or its declassification to finish documenting that history. This is a supremely ridiculous. _______________________ Charles P. Vick Research Analyst Federation of American Scientists phone: (202) 675-1025 fax: (202) 675-1024 email: cpvick@fas.org http://www.fas.org/ From JamesOberg@aol.com Thu Nov 2 20:04:08 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:04:08 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha In a message dated 11/2/00 1:45:34 PM Central Standard Time, lklaes@bbn.com writes: << Stepping Stone >> Not bad, or "Chrysalis" -- a hard outer covering with something soft inside, that turns into a winged creature of beauty that flies high -- and with a tinge of 'gold'. "Freedom" wasn't bad at all, referring to the limitations of Earthbound existence. It lended itself well to the joke about the economy-sized cut-down version, to be called "Fred" (after Haise, who helped the 'scrub'). From JamesOberg@aol.com Thu Nov 2 20:04:44 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:04:44 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha Now, who can come up with the best ACRONYM which adds up to A-L-F-A?? From clj@emc.com Thu Nov 2 20:19:19 2000 Date: 02 Nov 2000 15:19:19 -0500 From: Chris Jones clj@emc.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha JamesOberg@aol.com writes: Now, who can come up with the best ACRONYM which adds up to A-L-F-A?? A Lousy F-in' Acronym From jcm@head-cfa.harvard.edu Thu Nov 2 20:32:20 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:32:20 -0500 (EST) From: Jonathan McDowell jcm@head-cfa.harvard.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Alpha acronym JamesOberg@aol.com writes: Now, who can come up with the best ACRONYM which adds up to A-L-F-A?? How about ALPHA = Advanced Large Price Housing for Astronauts? - Jonathan McDowell From svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Thu Nov 2 21:17:39 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 22:17:39 +0100 From: Sven Grahn svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS reception log on 143.625 MHz for 2 Nov 2000 The first signals ever from ISS on 143.625 MHz (old Mir frequency, also used by Yuri Gagarin!) were picked up two revolutions after the docking. Bill Shepherd got to say a few words of English in between all the technical talk from his colleagues. 1221:35-1227:49 UT, Shepherd thanks all involved 1358:05-1405:48 UT I have included a short audio clip of Shepherd's message at my Web site. * Go to http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn * Click on "What's New" * Select entry for 2 Nov 2000 and follow the instructions Best Wishes Sven Grahn From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Thu Nov 2 21:30:17 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 22:30:17 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha > >Now, who can come up with the best ACRONYM which adds up to A-L-F-A?? Advanced Location For Astronauts ? Raoul From cmvdberg@wxs.nl Thu Nov 2 20:50:12 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 21:50:12 +0100 From: C.M. vd Berg cmvdberg@wxs.nl Subject: [FPSPACE] Sorry, here english version!! Dit is een meerdelig bericht in MIME-indeling. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C04516.E8CFBF60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_005E_01C04516.E8CFBF60" ------=_NextPart_001_005E_01C04516.E8CFBF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry friends. =20 Slip of the finger! Here is my English version!! Cheerio,=20 Chris.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_005E_01C04516.E8CFBF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry friends.   =
 
Slip of the finger!
 
Here is my English = version!!
 
Cheerio,
 
Chris.
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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////8BAP7/AwoAAP////8GCQIAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGGAAAAE1pY3Jvc29mdCBXb3JkLWRv Y3VtZW50AAoAAABNU1dvcmREb2MAEAAAAFdvcmQuRG9jdW1lbnQuOAD0ObJxAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAA== ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C04516.E8CFBF60-- From cmvdberg@wxs.nl Thu Nov 2 20:25:15 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 21:25:15 +0100 From: C.M. vd Berg cmvdberg@wxs.nl Subject: [FPSPACE] ISSCOM.002 Dit is een meerdelig bericht in MIME-indeling. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C04513.6BDFD420 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001D_01C04513.6BDFD420" ------=_NextPart_001_001D_01C04513.6BDFD420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Friends.=20 Here another one.=20 Cheerio.=20 Chris.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_001D_01C04513.6BDFD420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Friends.
 
Here another one.
 
Cheerio.
 
Chris.
 
 
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AA== ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C04513.6BDFD420-- From routier@tig.com.au Thu Nov 2 21:58:40 2000 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 08:58:40 +1100 From: Brett Harrison routier@tig.com.au Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha Interesting. I like one suggestion made in that forum: "Albatross". * It's a big soaring "bird" * There is some morphological resemblance, with the solar arrays providing an impressive wingspan Subsequent staions could be named after birds, progressing through the (admittedly English/Roman)alphabet. E.g. Bustard (!), Coot etc. Sheesh! OK, I'm not good at bird names... * It's bad luck to drop an Albatross from the sky * Semantic link with "sailor" analogy of "astronaut", "cosmonaut", "taikonaut" etc. Raoul Lannoy wrote: > > When MSNBC proposed to name the station, many came up with ideas and I'm > ROTFL about this (yes, november 1): > http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-space/posts/xc/87955.asp > > Cheers, > > Raoul > > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace -- -- Brett Harrison "If the law was worth a damn, we wouldn't need lawyers at all!" - Peter Fable (1996) From kc6rol@amsat.org Thu Nov 2 22:18:11 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 17:18:11 -0500 From: Will Marchant kc6rol@amsat.org Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS reception log on 143.625 MHz for 2 Nov 2000 I also heard signals from ISS on this frequency during a pass over the mid-Atlantic states in the USA. I surmise that the relay station at NASA Wallops Flight Facility, which was used extensively during Mir (ISS Phase 1) operations, is being used again in support of Alpha. Sven Grahn wrote: > > The first signals ever from ISS on 143.625 MHz (old Mir frequency, also > used by Yuri Gagarin!) were picked up two revolutions after the docking. > Bill Shepherd got to say a few words of English in between all the > technical talk from his colleagues. > > 1221:35-1227:49 UT, Shepherd thanks all involved > 1358:05-1405:48 UT > > I have included a short audio clip of Shepherd's message at my Web site. > > * Go to http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn > * Click on "What's New" > * Select entry for 2 Nov 2000 and follow the instructions > > Best Wishes > > Sven Grahn > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace -- Will Marchant marchant@ssl.berkeley.edu http://chips.ssl.berkeley.edu/~marchant/ kc6rol@amsat.org New==>http://home.earthlink.net/~willmarchant/ From lklaes@bbn.com Thu Nov 2 22:23:50 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 17:23:50 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha Remember that the lunar base in Space: 1999 was named Alpha. http://www.space1999.net/ Oh, but then the nuclear waste on the lunar farside exploded and sent Earth's moon zipping out of the Sol System at FTL velocities, where it managed to encounter aliens and their planets every week for two years. Never mind. At 08:58 AM 11/03/2000 +1100, Brett Harrison wrote: > >Interesting. I like one suggestion made in that forum: "Albatross". > >* It's a big soaring "bird" >* There is some morphological resemblance, with the solar arrays providing an >impressive wingspan >Subsequent staions could be named after birds, progressing through the >(admittedly English/Roman)alphabet. E.g. Bustard (!), Coot etc. Sheesh! OK, >I'm not good at bird names... >* It's bad luck to drop an Albatross from the sky >* Semantic link with "sailor" analogy of "astronaut", "cosmonaut", "taikonaut" >etc. > > > >Raoul Lannoy wrote: >> >> When MSNBC proposed to name the station, many came up with ideas and I'm >> ROTFL about this (yes, november 1): >> http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-space/posts/xc/87955.asp >> >> Cheers, >> >> Raoul >> >> _______________________________________________ >> FPSPACE mailing list >> FPSPACE@friends-partners.org >> http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > >-- > >-- >Brett Harrison > >"If the law was worth a damn, we wouldn't need lawyers at all!" > > - Peter Fable (1996) From carpenter_joel@email.msn.com Thu Nov 2 22:30:05 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:30:05 -0500 From: carpenter_joel carpenter_joel@email.msn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha > > Now, who can come up with the best ACRONYM which adds up to A-L-F-A?? A Long way From Assembled J Carpenter From davida@cwo.com Fri Nov 3 00:44:12 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:44:12 -0800 From: David Anderman davida@cwo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] MirCorp President speaks about MirCorp There's an interesting interview with Jeff Manber on the MirCorp web site: http://www.mirstation.com/news_feature.html Lots for Mr. Day to poke holes at! David Anderman From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Fri Nov 3 01:56:31 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 20:56:31 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] MirCorp President speaks about MirCorp On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, David Anderman wrote: > There's an interesting interview with Jeff Manber on the MirCorp web site: > > Lots for Mr. Day to poke holes at! Heh, heh, heh... Actually, nothing really to poke at. There was at least *some* honesty there, although MirCorp's overall delusional state pervaded the entire interview. There were a few new datapoints that were quite interesting: -Manber said that total investment in MirCorp to date has been $30 million. That is A LOT less than we had been led to believe by press reports. Previous reports were that investment in MirCorp was $40-50 million. -Manber said that MirCorp can operate for about $75-80 million a year. That is a LOT less than what the Russians have said. The Russians have claimed that costs would be $150-200 million. -He said that Energia has essentially taken a loss on the Progress and Soyuz flights to Mir in return for a stake in the value of the company. When all this is over, it will be interesting to work out what happened--did NASA subsidize the Mir flights? Did Energia subsidize the flights? He did say that because they are a new type of company, they have had a hard time attracting investors. The more interesting part was his comment that they cannot find scientific experimenters who can be prepared to fly in a short period of time. Now MirCorp early on said that the advantage of their station was that experimenters could fly soon, rather than waiting for an opportunity on ISS. Clearly the timescales here were incompatible--MirCorp needed customers now, but potential customers might not be ready for years. That's an interesting development. DDAY From direland@drdale.com Fri Nov 3 02:17:30 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 18:17:30 -0800 From: Dale Ireland direland@drdale.com Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: [HearSat-L] ISS reception log on 143.625 MHz for 2 Nov 2000 What is their sleep/activity time? Are they on Moscow time Dale From davida@cwo.com Fri Nov 3 03:34:32 2000 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 19:34:32 -0800 From: David Anderman davida@cwo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] MirCorp President speaks about MirCorp This is just a nit, but when Manber said that MirCorp was paying $70-$80 million for a whole year of Mir operations, he specifically stated that this amount was not the total cost of Mir operations, but just the MirCorp share. The remainder was being supported by RSC Energia internal funds. In theory, RSC Energia's share would be 40- 60% DWA At 08:56 PM 11/2/2000 -0500, Dwayne Allen Day wrote: >-Manber said that MirCorp can operate for about $75-80 million a >year. That is a LOT less than what the Russians have said. The Russians >have claimed that costs would be $150-200 million. From powellj@ucalgary.ca Fri Nov 3 03:36:27 2000 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 20:36:27 -0700 (MST) From: Joel Powell powellj@ucalgary.ca Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: [HearSat-L] ISS reception log on 143.625 MHz for 2 Nov 2000 According to NASA TV commentary, the ISS crew operate on Grenwich Mean Time (no doubt a political compromise between Houston and Moscow Time) Joel Powell On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Dale Ireland wrote: > > What is their sleep/activity time? Are they on Moscow time > Dale > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From bhen@tijd.com Fri Nov 3 12:51:46 2000 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:51:46 +0100 From: Bart Hendrickx bhen@tijd.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Novosti Kosmonavtiki on-line Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine has a new all-Russian website which, once fully operational, will make it possible to download a complete on-line version of the latest issue. Clicking on http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru will take you to the home page, which gives you the option of going to the following pages : - "novosti" (news) : apparently a site for the latest space news, but my computer gets hung up whenever I try to open it. Maybe others are more successful. - "novyy nomer" (latest issue) : here you can completely download the latest issue of Novosti Kosmonavtiki. However, right now only issue nr. 7 is available (while the most recent one is nr. 10). The plan seems to be to put all back issues on-line as well (click on "arkhiv" - archive), but this site clearly is still under construction. Issue nr. 7 can be downloaded for free, but I'm not sure if this will still be the case once this site is completely operational. - "redaktsiya" ("editorial staff") : pictures of some of the editors clad in Sokol pressure suits! - "forum" : apparently a site allowing you to send e-mails to Novosti Kosmonavtiki with your comments. There seems to be an archive of e-mail messages on this site, but clicking on the hyperlinks only gives you the e-mail address of the person who sent the message, not the message itself. The purpose of this is not entirely clear to me. Maybe Igor Lisov can tell us more about the site? Bart Hendrickx From bhen@tijd.com Fri Nov 3 14:18:08 2000 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 15:18:08 +0100 From: Bart Hendrickx bhen@tijd.com Subject: [FPSPACE] FGB ports David Anderman wrote : >Thanks for the information, which implies that the FGB contains 3 different >docking systems - APAS, to connect to the Unity Node - Probe and Cone at >the nadir port to connect with Progress, and Hybrid, to connect with the >Service Module. >Does anyone know why the Service Module's nadir port is Hybrid, but the FGB >nadir port is Probe and Cone? I think that in the original ISS plans both nadir ports were supposed to be hybrid. Before the arrival of add-on modules to permanently occupy these ports, Soyuz was to dock *only* to the nadir ports (both hybrid) and Progress *only* to the Zvezda aft port (probe-cone). However, in 1997 design changes were made to the FGB, which allowed it to fly without the Service Module for much longer than originally planned. One of those changes was to make it possible for the FGB to receive Progress vehicles, so that it could be directly refuelled by them (and not via the Service Module or Universal Docking Module). That seems to have necessitated a switch from hybrid to probe-cone, although I'm not sure what the exact technical reason for this is. Apparently, refuelling through a hybrid system is problematic. Exactly the opposite modification was made to Zarya's "aft" port (the one where Zvezda attaches). This was supposed to be probe-cone, but one of the other changes made in 1997 was to turn that into a hybrid. This made it compatible with the Interim Control Module should the need have arisen to launch it. By the way, there is un update on the Russian segment in the latest issue of "Novosti Kosmonavtiki". The Docking and Stowage Module has been cancelled and there is a good chance that the same fate will befall the Universal Docking Module (UDM) if the Russian government doesn't come up with any money soon. The only modules likely to fly are the commercial ones, the Khrunichev/Boeing Commercial Space Module (CSM) and the Energiya/Spacehab Enterprise module. The Commercial Space Module (to be launched by Proton) is likely to be ready first because it will be based on the already-built Zarya back-up ("FGB-2"). The Enterprise (to be launched by Zenit) is yet to be built. If the UDM is cancelled, that would solve the problem of where the commercial modules are to be docked, because both the Zarya and Zvezda nadir ports would become available. All this does raise the question if the functions of the UDM and the Docking and Stowage Module can simply be taken over by the commercial modules. For instance, it is not clear now where the gyrodins for the Russian segment will be installed. Originally, they were supposed to be mounted on the power platform, then on the UDM and according to the latest plans on the Docking and Stowage Module, which has now been cancelled. It is also clear that one of the two modules should have some kind of multiple docking adaptor on the aft section. Bart Hendrickx From john.b.charles1@jsc.nasa.gov Fri Nov 3 15:41:19 2000 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:41:19 -0600 From: CHARLES, JOHN B. (JSC-SF2) john.b.charles1@jsc.nasa.gov Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: Space Station Alpha (or, 'Three rabbis walk into a space cent er...") During my stint manning a booth for the Johnson Space Center's "Inspection 2000" yesterday, a visiting rabbi stopped to chat. My booth deals with the Bioastronautics "Critical Path Roadmap" which specifies 55 biomedical risks and the 247 associated critical questions that our group believes need to be addressed before we send people to Mars. The rabbi (part of a group of three apparently on-site for a lunch-time seminar) noticed that one of our risks is "human performance failure due to poor psychosocial adaptation." He asked if I had heard about that very issue on ISS already. I answered that I assumed that he meant the "Alpha" thing. He then told me a story (which I will garble, unfortunately) about a NY Times article after Sputnik was launched which made an analogy between a rocket launch pad and the Tower of Babel. The rabbi said that rabbinical writings mention that the Tower of Babel project to reach heaven came undone over some sort of controversy involving a name (what was being named was not clear to me). Anyway, he was delighted to see such a parallel with current events. So, as a permanent name for ISS Alpha, I vote for "Tower of Babel" (or something similar). And my apologies for being so poorly informed on matters rabbinical... John Charles Houston, Texas From JHarford@compuserve.com Fri Nov 3 16:09:23 2000 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:09:23 -0500 From: james harford JHarford@compuserve.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Alpha OK! It seems to me if Alpha is OK with the guys up there it's OK with me. Also, if Semenov is against it, that's another reason to be for it. Jim Harford From JamesOberg@aol.com Fri Nov 3 20:33:42 2000 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 15:33:42 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Small "Asteroid" Might Be Apollo S4B Stage JimO: Note the possibility that this might be an Apollo S-4-b stage! --- Date: 11/3/00 11:22:01 AM Central Standard Time From: dmorrison@arc.nasa.gov (David Morrison) To: david.morrison@arc.nasa.gov NEO News (11/3/00) Possible impact prediction Dear Friends and Students of NEOs: Information is being released this morning from NASA and the International Astronomical Union (IAU) concerning a possible impact in 2030 by asteroid 2000 SG344. This is the first verified impact prediction at a level of probability (1 in 500) to put it above hazard level 0 on the Torino hazard scale. While this prediction is no cause for alarm, it certainly focuses attention on the long-term impact hazard. Since the asteroid has a very small space velocity with respect to the Earth, it would be rather likely to survive down to the surface in the unlikely event of an impact in 2030. The energy is such a case would be about 1/10 of the Tunguska impact and about 100 times the Hiroshima bomb. Additional observations this winter may significantly improve the orbit, but unfortunately it already seems to be out of the range of even the powerful Arecibo radar. Definitive information on the orbit might therefore not be obtained until 2028, as it again approaches the Earth. David Morrison Following is a statement prepared by Don Yeomans of JPL: Recent computations by a group of international experts suggest a very small asteroid-like object, designated 2000 SG344, has a remote 1 in 500 chance of impacting the Earth in 2030. These results have been verified by a Technical Review Team of the International Astronomical Union. The greatest likelihood is that future observations of the object will yield higher precision orbit computations that will show with certainty that it will miss the Earth entirely. The unusual nature of the orbit of 2000 SG344 suggests the possibility that it is simply a man-made rocket booster from the Apollo era. Object 2000 SG344 was discovered on September 29, 2000 by David J. Tholen and Robert J. Whiteley using the Canada-France-Hawaii 3.6-meter aperture telescope on the island of Hawaii. Shortly thereafter, pre-discovery observations taken in May 1999 by MIT's LINEAR observatory team were also identified. Given the observed brightness of the object and its assumed reflectivity, an estimate can be made for its diameter. While the reflectivity of this object is not known, values typical for near-Earth asteroids imply this object's extent is about 30-70 meters. Paul Chodas of the Near-Earth Object Program Office at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory estimates a one in 500 chance of it hitting the Earth on September 21, 2030. The possibility of an Earth impacting orbit was confirmed by Steven Chesley (NASA/JPL), Giovanni Valsecchi (Italian National Research Center in Rome Italy), Andrea Milani (University of Pisa, Italy) and Karri Muinonen (University of Helsinki). If the object is near the large end of the estimated size range for an asteroid, it would be classified as category 1 within the 10 point Torino Scale,meaning the object is one that merits careful monitoring. If the object's size is closer to the lower limit of 30 meters, it would be classified as Torino Scale 0 and hence not of immediate concern. Because the orbital period of this object about the sun is 354 days, it moves a bit faster than the Earth about the Sun so it is drifting slowly away and will not return to the Earth's neighborhood until nearly three decades. It was last in the Earth's neighborhood in 1971. As yet undiscovered pre-discovery observations made in 1971 and additional observations made in the coming months would provide the data for further refining this object's orbit and the circumstances of its close Earth approach in 2030. During the 2030 close approach, the perturbative effects of the Earth upon the object could change its orbital period so that numerous encounters might be possible after 2030. The likelihood of this situation is also under study. Because of its Earth-like orbit, this object is an obvious candidate for being a left-over space probe or rocket stage. For example, the S-IVB stages of the five Apollo rockets (Apollo 8-12) entered into heliocentric orbits that are similar to the orbit of object 2000 SG344. If this objectis a man-made rocket booster, it would have a higher reflectivity than a natural asteroid and hence it would have to be smaller (about 15 meters)to reflect as much light as a much darker asteroid. While object 2000SG344 seems too bright to be an Apollo rocket booster, the possibility of its being man-made has not been ruled out. While object 2000 SG344 will likely pass close to the Earth in 2030, it should be made clear that the probability of the object missing the Earth is at least 500 to 1. If the ongoing studies determine that this object is likely to be a relatively small man-made booster then such a lightweight object would pose no hazard. It is interesting to note the chance of object 2000 SG344 striking the Earth in 2030 is actually less than the chance of an undiscovered object of the same size striking the Earth in any given year. Thus object 2000 SG344 is more interesting than threatening but the international efforts to characterize the nature and future motion of this object will continue. Added note: The International Astronomical Union (IAU)was closely involved in the verification of the orbit predictions. The IAU has noted that this is the first time the new IAU procedures for technical review have resulted in the verification of a significant impact risk (Torino scale hazard index 1). The IAU system worked very well an stands as an example of international collaboration. The IAU statement concerning the technical review of the orbital calculations is posted on the IAU webpage (http://www.iau.org/sg344.html). Web page addresses for: Torino Scale: http://impact.arc.nasa.gov/torino/index.html NASA Near-Earth Object web site at JPL: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov NEODyS web site at University of Pisa: http://newton.dm.unipi.it/cgi-bin/neodys/neoibo?objects:2000SG344;main NASA/Ames NEO Impact Hazard page: http://impact.arc.nasa.gov Contacts: NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory Steve Chesley Paul Chodas Don Yeomans, Manager Chair, International Astronomical Union Working Group for Near-Earth Objects David Morrison, NASA/Ames University of Pisa, Italy Andrea Milani University of Helsinki Karri Muinonen Italian Space Research Center Giovanni Valsecchi Torino Scale Richard Binzel, MIT From davida@cwo.com Fri Nov 3 20:42:21 2000 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:42:21 -0800 From: David Anderman davida@cwo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Small "Asteroid" Might Be Apollo S4B Stage Also note that object 1991VG is also suspected of being an S-IVB. From routier@tig.com.au Fri Nov 3 23:48:49 2000 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:48:49 +1100 From: Brett Harrison routier@tig.com.au Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: Space Station Alpha (or, 'Three rabbis walk into a space center...") BABEL-1? (Babylon 5 fans take note) ;-) Aw, shucks - if those guys up there are going to call it Alpha, I think it'd be churlish to ignore them. "CHARLES, JOHN B. (JSC-SF2)" wrote: > The rabbi said that rabbinical writings mention that the Tower of > Babel project to reach heaven came undone over some sort of controversy > involving a name (what was being named was not clear to me). Anyway, he was > delighted to see such a parallel with current events. > > So, as a permanent name for ISS Alpha, I vote for "Tower of Babel" (or > something similar). And my apologies for being so poorly informed on > matters rabbinical... > > John Charles > Houston, Texas > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace -- -- Brett Harrison "If the law was worth a damn, we wouldn't need lawyers at all!" - Peter Fable (1996) From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Sat Nov 4 01:33:08 2000 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 02:33:08 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: Space Station Alpha >Aw, shucks - if those guys up there are going to call it Alpha, I think it'd be >churlish to ignore them. Why not look at it this way: In every constellation, its brightest star is named "Alpha", like Alpha Centauri, Alpha Draconis, Alpha Orionis, Alpha Geminorum, etc... The Station will become the most brilliant star in the heavens, crossing a number of constellations every time we look at it. So, it's just seems normal to name it this way. Raoul From Dr_D_Whitehouse@email.msn.com Sat Nov 4 08:59:20 2000 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 08:59:20 -0000 From: David Whitehouse Dr_D_Whitehouse@email.msn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] help, info required; Korolev and von Braun. Hi everyone, I wonder if anyone can help me with some historical info please. A playwright friend asks me if von Braun and Korolev actually met. As far as I know they never did. I told him that I believed that they were both at Peenemunde just after the war as I recall a story about Korolev watching von Braun's team launch a V2. Korolev was watching from a lorry outside the base (well that's what I think I remember I read) but I have not read of any meeting even if they were in the same place at the same time. Am I right guys? Any information those more expert than I can provide would be great, either on or off-list. Historic week, we have a colony in space. Regards, David Whitehouse. From jcm@head-cfa.harvard.edu Sat Nov 4 11:44:08 2000 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 06:44:08 -0500 (EST) From: Jonathan McDowell jcm@head-cfa.harvard.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Werner and Sergey Pavlovich David, I don't think they met. The incident you recall was not at Peenemunde (in the Soviet sector) but at Cuxhaven, during Operation Backfire 1945 Oct 3 to 15. Korolev had to watch from outside the gates. I don't think Von Braun was there, but the account in Ordway and Sharpe implies that Debus may have been. - Jonathan McDowell From Dr_D_Whitehouse@email.msn.com Sat Nov 4 13:36:04 2000 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 13:36:04 -0000 From: David Whitehouse Dr_D_Whitehouse@email.msn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Korolev and von Braun Thanks Jonathan - very kind of you . Cheers, David. From tonyq@another.com Sat Nov 4 18:56:58 2000 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 18:56:58 +0000 (GMT+00:00) From: tonyq@another.com tonyq@another.com Subject: [FPSPACE] re Female Cosmonauts --27816037.973364218305.JavaMail.nobody@www-a24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a new member of this group, although I have corresponded with some other members direct, already. I have a particular interest in the Soviet/Russian female cosmonaut teams, and I am trying to collect as many photographs as possible. This is with a view to creating a website dedicated to these women in the fullness of time. I am interested in the women from Vostok era, to date If anyone has any images in JPEG or similar format, which they could share with me, they would be gratefully received. I will gladly 'swop' with anyone who is interested in something particular from my growing collection. I am especially looking for Amelkina and Latysheva (I don't have pictures of either of these), Yorkina, Kyzhelnaya and Gromushkina, who I have very few of. I am especially looking for images of the women in spacesuits, although these are quite rare, for the women who have never flown. Please contact me at Tonyq@another.com All contributions will be acknowledged. Tony Quine Your email address says a lot about you. Express yourself @ another.com http://another.com/jump.jsp?destDesc=another.com/login.jsp?sig=393 --27816037.973364218305.JavaMail.nobody@www-a24-- From svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Sat Nov 4 19:48:37 2000 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:48:37 +0100 From: Sven Grahn svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Subject: [FPSPACE] New article about listening to ISS Dear Friends, I have added an article called "Listening to ISS Expedition 1" to my Web site. * Go to http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn * Click on "What's New" * Select entry for 4 Nove 2000 Best Wishes Sven Grahn ---------------------------------------------------- Mr Sven Grahn | Kettering Group Rattviksvagen 44, S-192 71 Sollentuna, Sweden Tel: +46 8 7541904, svengrahn@wineasy.se http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn/ ---------------------------------------------------- From svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Sun Nov 5 08:02:38 2000 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:02:38 +0100 From: Sven Grahn svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Subject: [FPSPACE] Data bursts from ISS This morning, at 0751-0755 UT I picked up data bursts (that sound like signals from a modem) on the 143.625 MHz voice link from ISS. A few words were spoken during the pass, but the rest of the time was devoted to these data bursts. Do these come from the"Orbital Communications Adapter", a lap-top-based system mentioned on Florida Today's web pages? Sven Grahn From brharvey@iol.ie Mon Nov 6 01:34:52 2000 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:34:52 -0800 From: Brian Harvey brharvey@iol.ie Subject: [FPSPACE] Korolev in Germany David Whitehouse asked did Korolev meet Von Braun at a V-2 launching. The V-2 launchings were organized by the British at Cuxhaven in October 1945. Jim Harford's book on Korolev does have the story that Korolev was kept waiting outside the fenced area. It's not clear if von Braun was there and he may already have gone to the United States. Someone should know. Incidentally, Tsien Hsue Shen, the chief designer of the Chinese space programme was in Germany from April to June and did meet von Braun there. Brian Harvey From johndavidcorby@yahoo.com Sun Nov 5 19:56:45 2000 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 14:56:45 -0500 From: John David Corby johndavidcorby@yahoo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: [HearSat-L] Data bursts from ISS I was watching NASA TV while they were using OCA, and heard the usual voice tx, but no data bursts. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sven Grahn To: ; Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 3:02 AM Subject: [HearSat-L] Data bursts from ISS > This morning, at 0751-0755 UT I picked up data bursts (that sound like > signals from a modem) on the 143.625 MHz voice link from ISS. A few words > were spoken during the pass, but the rest of the time was devoted to these > data bursts. Do these come from the"Orbital Communications Adapter", a > lap-top-based system mentioned on Florida Today's web pages? > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From M.Wade@iaea.org Mon Nov 6 09:14:00 2000 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:14:00 +0100 From: M.Wade@iaea.org M.Wade@iaea.org Subject: [FPSPACE] Korolev in Germany The time hacks: 1945 April 19 - Decree 8206 of the State Committee for Defence ordered formation of TsKB-1 - Central Design Bureau 1 - for the purpose of recovering liquid rocket technology from Germany. 1945 May 2 - Following negotiations Von Braun crosses lines and surrenders to the Allied Powers. 1945 May 5 - Tsein Hsue-shen interviews Von Braun in Germany as part of Team Lusty operation for quick assessment of German technology. 1945 May 5 - Russian ground forces occupied Peenemünde. 1945 May 24 - The first group from the TsKB-1 bureau arrived in Berlin (General Gaidukov was the leader; members included Semenov, Mriykin, Pobedonsotetsev, V S Budnik, Shaprior, Timofeyev, Chertok, and Volfovich) 1945 June 1 - The TsKB-1 group reached Peenemuende. 1945 June 20 - U.S. Secretary of State Cordell Hull approved the transfer of von Braun's German rocket specialists. 1945 June - July - Von Braun at U.S. Army Interrogation Camp, Garmisch Partenkirchen, Bavaria. 1945 July - American forces pulled back from areas of East Germany they had occupied but were allocated to Stalin at Yalta. This included the underground slave-labour V-2 production facility at Nordhausen. 1945 August - reconstruction of the V-2 had begun by 150 German specialists lead by Chertok and Isayev at Bleicherode. Bleicherode was selected since it was well inside the Soviet zone, farther from the prying eyes of the American (Peenemuende and Nordhausen were both too visible). 1945 August 9 - A new group of 284 specialists arrived from Russia, including Korolev, Glushko, Pilyugin, Barmin, and Mishin. 1945 Sept - Von Braun enters the United States. 1945 Oct 3 - Project Backfire first V-2 launch. Launch of V-2 from Altenwalde by German technicians under British direction in order to document launch procedures. 1945 Oct 15 - Project Backfire third V-2 launch. Third and final launch in Project Backfire, with allied observors. Glushko, Sokolov, Pobedonostsev; Korolev and Gaidukov kept outside fence; Von Karman, Merrill, Seifert, Pickering from US. A might have been - after losing the moon race, Chertok was fingered as the 'guy who lost us the race' because he hadn't agreed to more forcefully recruit Von Braun... ========================== Mark Wade From kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Mon Nov 6 13:19:22 2000 Date: 6 Nov 2000 15:19:22 +0200 From: Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Subject: [FPSPACE] US Space Debris goes on display Africa's largest shopper-tainment complex, called Century City - Canal Walk, has just opened in Cape Town, South Africa. It ranges from a 16 ha. restored wetland which is now a bird sanctuary, through to vast shopping malls. In one of these is the MTN (a mobile phone company) "Sciencentre". This is generically similar to the Benjamin Franklin Institute in Philadelphia, focused on exciting primary school age children. Proudly on display in the "Sciencentre" is the rocket nozzle, one pressurization sphere, and propellant tank from the Delta II upper stage that survived re-entry, to crash onto vineyards and vegetable farms outside Cape Town earlier this year. The rocket nozzle & pressurization sphere look in remarkably good condition to be re-furbished, but the propellant tank will require some serious panel-beating. A large magnifying glass is chained to the exhibit, so you can examine the tiny pits left by 3 years worth of micrometeorites (& Al particles?) pinging onto their surfaces. The French Embassy has also sponsored a wall of SPOT colour images. Fortunately for LockMart, their Upper Stage crashed onto South Africa. If it had hit China, the corporation would now be up on another rap for "illegal transfer of technology" :) :) :) Keith Gottschalk From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Mon Nov 6 18:41:28 2000 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 13:41:28 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Quest magazine gets randy The following article ran in today's Wired magazine. I have to say I'm not thrilled that my article is running in the same issue of Quest where a cosmonaut discusses sex dolls. Maybe Quest is hoping that they will get bought out by Space.com... DDAY *************************************************************** Sex That's Out of This World by Michelle Delio 2:00 a.m. Nov. 4, 2000 PST Getting amorous while in orbit is a fantasy for some, and a serious question for those with a scientific thirst to know if having sex in zero-gravity conditions would be fabulous or fraught with technical difficulties. Both desires are fed in the upcoming issue of Quest: The History of Spaceflight Quarterly, which features an article that explores the history of sex in the United States and Russian space programs. It contains tasty tidbits about past plans to film a sex documentary on board the Mir Space Station, allegations of adultery by two Russian cosmonauts and specifics of the pornographic videos that were viewed during space missions. To write "The Psychological and Social Effects of Isolation on Earth and in Space," Peter Pesavento interviewed scientists, psychologists, astronauts and cosmonauts for an in-depth and personal piece which lays bare the mysteries of how humans handle themselves - and, sometimes, others - during extended space missions. Acknowledging that outer-space sex is a rather racy topic for an academic journal, Quest's editor, Prof. Stephen Johnson of the University of North Dakota, said the article broke new ground in discussing the social and psychological issues of space flight from a historical and human perspective. "Sexuality and gender relations are just one of several topics that the author addresses, all of which have been issues in human space flight in the past, and will be again in the future," Johnson said. Pesavento focused his article on what he says is "the largest challenge of long-term space flights": the need to have people return from their missions in acceptable emotional and physical health. In the piece, Pesavento points out the should-be-obvious fact that "if humans are sexual beings on the ground, they also will be sexual beings in space." It's a concept that NASA, publicly at least, allegedly chooses to ignore. According to Pesavento, NASA thinks that sex is just a very small part of a more important issue: the lack of any physical connection with loved ones when astronauts are in orbit. Quest editor Scott Sacknoff added that he believes that since sex in the United States is often a very controversial subject, NASA public relations people simply steer clear of releasing any information about what sorts of extracurricular activities might be happening up there. "They could open up a can of worms if they had to publicize their official policies for astronaut relations," Sacknoff said. "I personally cannot picture NASA supporting efforts to film a movie on the International Space Station where a sex scene takes place, such as that which (Pesavento's) article mentions was proposed for Mir." Consequently there is very little information available about NASA astronauts' more amorous activities while in orbit. In the book Living in Space, former NASA consultant G. Harry Stine, who died in 1997 shortly after his book was published, said that the neutral buoyancy tank that's used for astronaut training at Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, was also used, both officially and unofficially, to see whether people could shag sans gravitational pull. According to Stine, it was "possible but difficult." Stine also explained that the tank experiments revealed that sex in zero gravity would be easier if a helpful astronaut was available to assist the copulating couple by holding one of the two participants in place. French astronomer Pierre Kohler, in his 1996 book The Final Mission, alleged that astronauts conducted NASA-sponsored sexual research on a space-shuttle mission in 1996. Kohler's graphic descriptions of experiments that involved elastic belts and inflatable tubes were hotly denied by NASA and were later found to have originated with a parody piece that had been widely distributed on various Internet news groups and websites. The Final Mission is now out of print. Pesavento said that the Russians have a more open attitude towards sex in space, noting that the Institute of Biomedical Problems, a leading Russian research institute in the field of space medicine and biology, has been involved for decades in sex-related studies of living creatures in space. The Quest article offers other salacious snippets of information for the, uh, scientifically curious -- including astronaut Alan Bean's comment that an all-male crew is a good way to prevent jealousy, something he believes could be a problem with a mixed crew where not everyone was "participating." "If some are doing it, you are going to want to. Hey, that fellas got a big smile on his face, and that bugs me," Bean said. Pesavento also laid some free-floating scraps of space sex gossip to rest, such as the widespread story that cosmonauts Valeri Vladimirovich Polyakov and Yelena Vladimirovna Kondakova were the first to explore the highly personal potentials of zero gravity together. And, since both are married to others, they were also accused of being the first deep-space adulterers. The story was covered in numerous newspapers, mostly in Europe, during Polyakov and Kondakova's 1995 mission. Pesavento said that Polyakov later denied that he'd had anything more than a professional relationship with Kondakova. But evidently Polyakov believed that substitutes for the real thing are not a good idea either. He particularly eschewed the use of the sort of inflatable friends that you can purchase in an adult bookstore. The trouble with such toys, Polyakov was quoted in Quest as saying, is that "anyone who is using such things may develop the so-called 'doll syndrome,' or in other words, may start preferring the doll (to their own spouse or loved one) even after (they return to Earth). People have a sad experience of using such things during long-lasting stays in Antarctica and sea voyages." http://www.spacebusiness.com/quest From DONALD.EDBERG@West.Boeing.com Mon Nov 6 18:39:16 2000 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:39:16 -0800 From: Edberg, Don DONALD.EDBERG@West.Boeing.com Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: US Space Debris goes on display > "Keith Gottschalk" wrote: > Proudly on display in the "Sciencentre" is the rocket nozzle, one > pressurization sphere, and propellant tank from the Delta II upper stage > that survived re-entry, to crash onto vineyards and vegetable farms > outside Cape Town earlier this year. The rocket nozzle & pressurization > sphere look in remarkably good condition to be re-furbished, but the > propellant tank will require some serious panel-beating. > Fortunately for LockMart, their Upper Stage crashed onto South > Africa. If it had hit China, the corporation would now be up on another > rap for "illegal transfer of technology" :) :) :) > For the record, if the parts are from a Delta II, then it's Boeing that should be grateful! don e. Donald L Edberg, Ph.D. Boeing Technical Fellow Engineering & Technology, Define From gabrynow@aero.und.edu Mon Nov 6 22:31:47 2000 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:31:47 -0600 (CST) From: Joanne Gabrynowicz gabrynow@aero.und.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Time To Declassify Historical Imagery RE: "It seems only logical that researchers should have access to Gambit and Hexagon imagery, regardless of the objections raised by the intelligence community. This is true, especially in the wake of the commercially available 1-meter satellite imagery ." At an NRC meeting held this last Friday to discuss foreign policy and remote sensing, a NIMA rep said (and I paraphrase) that as more private systems are licensed, less data can be released. This is because together, the old images and the new commercial images can reveal national security trends over time. Comments? Joanne Irene Gabrynowicz Professor, Space Law & Policy Remote Sensing Law & Policy Space Studies Department University of North Dakota gabrynow@aero.und.nodak.edu On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Charles P. Vick wrote: > Space News Op-ed, > November 6, 2000 > > By Charles P. Vick, > Senior Research Analyst, Space Defense Policy office at the Federation of > American Scientists. > > Time To Declassify Historical Imagery > > Since the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) released Corona satellite > imagery — the nation’s first photo reconnaissance satellite system — in > February 1995, there has been an unprecedented impact on environmental > studies, urban planning, and legal documentation for the insurance industry, > along with documentation of history. > > Corona imagery also has provided priceless insight into foreign strategic > programs of various nations, including North Korea, The Peoples Republic of > China, Taiwan, Pakistan, India, the former Soviet Union and Iran, among > others. This declassification has truly fulfilled much more than expected. > Corona imagery, combined with U-2 imagery and the still > yet-to-be-declassified follow-on film-based imagery could provide scientists > with an unprecedented, critical historical record of what Earth looked like > and how it has changed. > > While the CIA and National Reconnaissance Office have been openly hoping for > the declassification of the Gambit and Hexagon imagery since October 1997, > it has yet to be fulfilled and is not expected until the of fall of 2001, if > ever. It is now in the hands of the director of Central Intelligence. . > > These delays in the release of the follow-on imagery systems, a pattern of > repeated broken promises throughout the declassification programs, > discourages serious research and remains very perplexing. In fact, the > intelligence community’s priority is current events information. History > takes second place to that priority. Furthermore, it is quite expensive to > maintain classified records. U.S. President Bill Clinton’s Executive Order > 12951 required that a review decision by the director of Central > Intelligence on further declassifications of imagery be conducted on or > before Feb. 22, 2000. To date there is no evidence to suggest such a > decision has been made or is forth coming. The lack of a continual > presidential directive to require that the intelligence community get moving > on this has allowed the community to get away with ignoring the issue. > > While the CIA was the owner of the Corona and U-2 imagery, it is not the > controlling organization for the Gambit/KH-7, Gambit/KH-8 and Hexagon/KH-9 > film-based imagery. The National Imagery and Mapping Agency is the > controlling agency, but the declassification decision is in the hands of the > director of Central Intelligence. The question has become, does the Clinton > administration still have the leadership to see this through to completion > before leaving office? > > A close examination of the precise legal language of certain sections of > Executive Order 12951 is very revealing on the future prospects of the > imagery declassification. > > Most telling of all is the statement that indicates that only broad-area > film-return systems will be considered for declassification. That means the > medium-high-resolution KH-7/Gambit imagery will probably be considered > because it is the oldest medium-high-resolution imagery acquired. It also > means that the medium-resolution KH-9A & B/Hexagon imagery of a lesser > quality than the KH-7 imagery will be considered for declassification. It is > unlikely that any of the very high-resolution Gambit/KH-8 imagery will be > released without a major change in declassification policy. > > This will have a major impact on the historical documentation of events. Why > the intelligence community could not continue to have access to this Gambit > high-resolution, Gambit very high-resolution and Hexagon medium-resolution > imagery for themselves while it is also available for the public remains > incomprehensible to me. > > The intelligence community needs to realize that these reconnaissance > satellite images document history that cannot otherwise be documented. > > It represents a particularly significant source of certainty of historical > events in countries such as the former Soviet Union and China, and there are > critical lessons to be learned from this imagery. It alone, is the only way > available to accomplish this as a cross check on the accuracy of Russian > historic documentation statements. > > For example, this is especially true when looking into the the Soviet Union’ > s manned lunar programs. The official records of the former Soviet Union are > being contradicted by the Corona imagery. We can only begin to wonder what > the Gambit and Hexagon imagery will reveal beyond what Corona imagery has > shown. . > > It seems only logical that researchers should have access to Gambit and > Hexagon imagery, regardless of the objections raised by the intelligence > community. This is true, especially in the wake of the commercially > available 1-meter satellite imagery . > > It seems that because of the lack of congressional funding and political > will, there will be no film-based imagery declassification, even though a > large portion of this imagery is more than 25 years old. > > Apart from the absence of compelling security barriers to the release of > various imagery and analytical products, the now operational commercial > imagery satellite systems provide a compelling incentive for the release of > the remaining archival film-based imagery. The practical utility of this new > commercial imagery will be vastly enhanced by comparing it to the historical > imagery. > > Everyone concerned acknowledges Corona imagery and the follow-on systems is > a unique resource which security researchers and analysts have barely begun > to exploit. The original promise of openness has not been realized. > > Surely the intelligence communities, Congress and the president can do > better by the the citizens of the United States. > > > My only other comment is that: > It is fascinating that Russia has launched on Proton ISS & Commercial > payloads from the Proton/Zond launch site 81 L, R of the manned lunar > circumnavigation program, the direct competitor to Apollo-8 & many people > have toured the Energia/Buran launch facility site of the TT-05/N1-L3 Soviet > manned lunar landing program on the Baikonur Cosmodrome but we can not have > the Gambit and Hexagon imagery access or its declassification to finish > documenting that history. This is a supremely ridiculous. > > _______________________ > Charles P. Vick > Research Analyst > Federation of American Scientists > phone: (202) 675-1025 > fax: (202) 675-1024 > email: cpvick@fas.org > http://www.fas.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Tue Nov 7 00:11:50 2000 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:11:50 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Time To Declassify Historical Imagery (this is a long reply--sorry) On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Joanne Gabrynowicz wrote: > RE: "It seems only logical that researchers should have access to > Gambit and Hexagon imagery, regardless of the objections raised by the > intelligence community. This is true, especially in the wake of the > commercially available 1-meter satellite imagery ." I actually disagree with Charles on this a bit. More in a moment. > At an NRC meeting held this last Friday to discuss foreign policy > and remote sensing, a NIMA rep said (and I paraphrase) that as more > private systems are licensed, less data can be released. This is because > together, the old images and the new commercial images can reveal national > security trends over time. > Comments? If this is indeed what he said, then it really makes no sense to me. That is not unusual, however, since the intel community has often made silly arguments about how come material could not be declassified. For these systems we are really talking about two qualities of images. The HEXAGON and the early GAMBIT systems had resolution of about .5 meters. That is roughly equivalent to the next generation commercial systems that the US government will soon approve. (In short, the 1-meter commercial systems are not good enough for the US government. The spooks want .5 meter commercial systems and they will then buy the imagery.) So for much of this historical imagery we are not talking about a substantive increase in resolution over systems that will soon be flying. The later GAMBIT systems (1967-1985) got really good, up to about 2.5 inches (6.35 cm). This is much better than any commercial systems that the US government will allow anytime soon. So for some of the historical imagery, we are talking about photos that are far better than anything that will ever be available in the commercial world. This stuff is exclusively military. Now, what are the arguments against releasing this historical imagery? Supposedly, the suits at Space Imaging, which operate Ikonos and want to sell commercial imagery to everybody, are opposed to releasing historical imagery even at .5 meter resolution. They fear that releasing this imagery will undercut their market. But this is just crass commercial protectionism--they want to make a buck. (However, they argue to the CIA that if they *cannot* make a buck, then they will not be able to stay in business and provide a service to the military. So they are essentially arguing that their commercial success is in the interest of "national security.") But I think that there are two good, legitimate arguments *against* declassifying the high-resolution imagery as well as some of the medium-resolution GAMBIT imagery. One argument is that this imagery will demonstrate the effectiveness of deception techniques. The Soviets attempted to hide some of their facilities from US spysats during the 1960s, 70s and 80s. They could go check the actual imagery and see if they were successful. They could then tell other countries (like Iran?), what techniques work against American satellites. (There is no guarantee that this still works, given the fact that new systems can image in the infrared, but it is still a fear.) The other argument is that the close-look systems like GAMBIT could reveal *other* sources of intelligence information. For instance, what if the United States took a lot of pictures of an empty field in Siberia that just happened to house an underground facility? A Russian intelligence agent might look at these photos and wonder how the Americans knew that the underground facility was there. What if they suspected that a spy had given the US info on this facility back in the 1970s? That suspect could now be hauled off to jail and executed. (Remember that Aldrich Ames gave up the name of a top spy who had stopped spying for the US over a decade before. That person had been suspected, but never caught. Ames gave the KGB the info they needed to execute this person.) This is what the intel community fears--that these photos could tip off the Russians about other intelligence collection systems and sources. I have to admit that I find this latter argument convincing. I believed in total declassification until about two months ago, when a colleague who used to be in CIA told me about this concern and said that this is the real reason why *some* people in the government are so opposed to declassifying the imagery. (Of course, many oppose the declassification simply because they are living in the past.) While I think that this imagery has much historical value, we have to admit that it has little *relative* historical value compared to many other subjects. Yes, we all want to see high-resolution spysat photos of N-1 rockets. But in wider historical terms, there are much more important things for the US government to release. For instance, there are important documents on the US approach to China in the early 1970s that have not been released. There are important histories of the Bay of Pigs and US covert action that have not been released. These are more important than space photos of Soviet territory. There are many more historians interested in these subjects, and, frankly, these subjects sell more books. Space is not very important. I think that the medium-resolution HEXAGON imagery should be completely declassified. I believe that much of the medium-resolution GAMBIT imagery can be completely declassified. But I am very reticent about releasing the high-resolution imagery even though I would love to see the photos. Perhaps this material could be released in selected batches, such as the expected targets--big military bases, launch facilities, and Moscow. But I do not believe that it is wise to release it all at this time. DDAY From cpvick@fas.org Tue Nov 7 00:27:27 2000 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:27:27 -0500 From: Charles P. Vick cpvick@fas.org Subject: [FPSPACE] Ranger SB-WASS Navy program payload For those interested a new drawing of the Ranger SB-WASS Navy payloads is available on http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/surveill/sbwass_n.htm cpv _______________________ Charles P. Vick Research Analyst Federation of American Scientists phone: (202) 675-1025 fax: (202) 675-1024 email: cpvick@fas.org http://www.fas.org/ From svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Tue Nov 7 06:40:54 2000 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 07:40:54 +0100 From: Sven Grahn svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Subject: [FPSPACE] Finally - English on ISS downlink! Yesterday, Nov 6, Bill Shepherd finally started speaking English on the 143.625 MHz downlink. He had a long conversation with a lady about missing equipment and in which bag a certain piece could be found. I thought I heard him mention "IMAX" also! This happened during the 0825.15-0832.36 UT pass over Europe. Sven ---------------------------------------------------- Mr Sven Grahn | Kettering Group Rattviksvagen 44, S-192 71 Sollentuna, Sweden Tel: +46 8 7541904, svengrahn@wineasy.se http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn/ ---------------------------------------------------- From kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Tue Nov 7 09:40:03 2000 Date: 7 Nov 2000 11:40:03 +0200 From: Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Subject: [FPSPACE] Who von Braun met While von Braun never met Korolev, those interested in the prehistory of the RLV will be interested one one person he did meet. Eugen Sanger's son wrote to me that Werner von Braun had 2 opportunities to meet his father, Once was during the 3rd Reich, when von B. requested a solution to ignition problems that had been developed by the Sanger team. More than a decade after he had found a democratic employer, von B. again met Sanger. Both men much respected each other's work. Good luck, VentureStar, Skylon, Kistler, Hope-X ! Keith Gottschalk From lklaes@bbn.com Mon Nov 6 13:26:25 2000 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:26:25 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] One Final, Cheap Shot at Space http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39627,00.html One Final, Cheap Shot at Space by Dan Brekke 2:00 a.m. Oct. 28, 2000 PDT The field of contenders for the Cheap Access to Space Prize, which just a month ago included a half-dozen teams hoping to launch by the Nov. 8 deadline, has been winnowed to one. The $250,000 cash prize was offered three years ago to the first group to launch a 2-kilogram payload to an altitude of 200 kilometers. Although many at first regarded the challenge as a no-sweat proposition, not one of the 50 or so teams that entered has made a prize attempt. The last team standing with two weeks to go before the deadline is the High-Altitude Research Corporation, based in Huntsville, Alabama, which plans to launch early Sunday from a utility boat in the Gulf of Mexico 200 miles west of Tampa, Florida. HARC will try to get to space using a rockoon system. Its launching platform will be carried to an altitude of 70,000 feet, at which point the rocket will be fired. By launching from above the thickest part of the atmosphere, the team can use a lighter, less powerful motor than if it launched from the ground. Greg Allison, an aerospace engineer who works as a contractor on the International Space Station when he's not leading HARC, said it's not surprising that so many of the CATS teams have come to grief. "You've heard the saying that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link," he said. "Well, a rocket project has a whole lot of links." Participants in the contest -- designed to foster creation of new launch companies and the development of ultra-cheap launch vehicles -- have been undone by problems with federal flight regulators and by the basic difficulty of building a vehicle capable of going high enough and fast enough to leave the atmosphere. J.P. Aerospace of Rancho Cordova, California, was derailed when the Federal Aviation Administration's commercial space-transportation office decided it needed more time to process the company's launch application. JPA had applied in May for a waiver to launch from Northern Nevada's Black Rock Desert on Oct. 7. SORAC, a Hollister, California group, also ran into trouble with the FAA and Bureau of Land Management officials who oversee the Black Rock Desert. Interorbital Systems of Southern California, which planned a Halloween launch from the Pacific 175 miles west of Vandenberg Air Force Base, earlier this month became the only CATS team to receive a full-on commercial launch license. But the company is no longer aiming for a definite date. "We were in this before the CATS Prize was announced" in 1997, Interorbital's Randa Milliron said. "We may be outside the launch window, but we'll launch whenever we're ready." The Danish Space Challenge, a group of amateurs from Copenhagen, scheduled an attempt for Nov. 1 from the southeastern Greenland town of Kangerlussuaq. Its shot was scrubbed last week because the team had fallen hopelessly behind in its construction effort. "We were ready in mind, but not in metal," team leader Jeppe Locht said. Interorbital's Milliron, among others, has expressed hope that the CATS organizers will extend the contest deadline or renew the prize offer. She says history -- Charles Lindbergh's transatlantic flight, for which he won a $25,000 prize put up eight years earlier by a New York hotelier -- offers a precedent. "The deadline is artificial. The prize that Lindbergh won when he crossed the Atlantic -- no one set a deadline on that," she said. Extending the contest would be "the gentlemanly thing to do," she added. The CATS Prize jackpot came from Walt Anderson, the telecom billionaire who has led the effort to keep Russia's Mir space station in orbit for tourism and other private enterprise. David Anderman, the CATS Prize administrator, has insisted that neither the deadline nor the duration of the contest will change. From clj@emc.com Tue Nov 7 13:47:10 2000 Date: 07 Nov 2000 08:47:10 -0500 From: Chris Jones clj@emc.com Subject: [FPSPACE] One Final, Cheap Shot at Space Larry Klaes writes: http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39627,00.html In fact, this attempt failed. The theory was that the guides on the launcher failed, so the rocket didn't fire in the correct direction, but telemetry and visual tracking was difficult so they weren't completely sure (though the failure was certain). From lklaes@bbn.com Tue Nov 7 14:16:35 2000 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 09:16:35 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] One Final, Cheap Shot at Space So now that the deadline will obviously pass with no winners, what next for CATS? Larry At 08:47 AM 11/07/2000 -0500, Chris Jones wrote: >Larry Klaes writes: > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,39627,00.html > >In fact, this attempt failed. The theory was that the guides on the launcher >failed, so the rocket didn't fire in the correct direction, but telemetry and >visual tracking was difficult so they weren't completely sure (though the >failure was certain). > >_______________________________________________ >FPSPACE mailing list >FPSPACE@friends-partners.org >http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From clj@emc.com Tue Nov 7 14:52:32 2000 Date: 07 Nov 2000 09:52:32 -0500 From: Chris Jones clj@emc.com Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS Progress delayed, Mir deorbit funds allocated? NASAWatch.com is reporting that the next ISS Progress launch, already delayed until December, is being further delayed until next February. This latest delay will require the Shuttle to take on some ISS reboost responsibilities, cutting the science payload it can carry to the station. Space.com is reporting that Russian space agency head Yuri Koptev has said that Russia has set aside (or has decided to set aside -- it's unclear) the funds ($25 million) to deorbit Mir. The final (is that final final?) decision on the plan will come early next year. MirCorp's Jeffrey Manber calls this a non-story, and says they will be launching Tito to Mir in January. From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Tue Nov 7 17:18:25 2000 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 12:18:25 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS Progress delayed, Mir deorbit funds allocated? On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Chris Jones wrote: > NASAWatch.com is reporting that the next ISS Progress launch, already delayed > until December, is being further delayed until next February. This latest > delay will require the Shuttle to take on some ISS reboost responsibilities, > cutting the science payload it can carry to the station. NASA has also told the Naval Research Lab to stop work on the ICM. This in effect cancels the program. > Space.com is reporting that Russian space agency head Yuri Koptev has said > that Russia has set aside (or has decided to set aside -- it's > unclear) the funds ($25 million) to deorbit Mir. The final (is that > final final?) decision on the plan will come early next year. > > MirCorp's Jeffrey Manber calls this a non-story, and says they will be > launching Tito to Mir in January. I too think that this is a non-story. It is not clear if any money has changed hands. Until Energia says that they have been paid for a deorbit mission, I won't believe it. It is interesting that Koptev's remarks that Mir is "dangerous" got little attention. MirCorp chose to ignore them (wisely), but this will certainly come up again. That was a real setback, because Mir seemed to have gotten past its reputation as a disaster-in-waiting. How do you convince people to invest in your company when the head of the Russian space agency says that your product is "dangerous"? As for Tito? He may yet fly. But I doubt that Energia will let him fly until they get paid for the October Progress mission. So MirCorp has to come up with cash for both missions by January. The fat lady is standing in the wings, but has not taken the stage. DDAY From davida@cwo.com Tue Nov 7 18:00:34 2000 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:00:34 -0800 From: David Anderman davida@cwo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] One Final, Cheap Shot at Space The CATS Prize will not survive the deadline. At 09:16 AM 11/7/2000 -0500, Larry Klaes wrote: >So now that the deadline will obviously pass with no >winners, what next for CATS? From damir.lozovina@znanost.hr Tue Nov 7 17:59:10 2000 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:59:10 +0100 From: Damir Lozovina damir.lozovina@znanost.hr Subject: [FPSPACE] Challenge To Apollo This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C048EC.CFBB1540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today I got the book, together with 1m (3 ft) plastic sack (?!) from French (?) post. Damir http://pubwww.srce.hr/damirspace ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C048EC.CFBB1540 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Damir Lozovina.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Damir Lozovina.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Lozovina;Damir FN:Damir Lozovina EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:damir.lozovina@znanost.hr REV:20001107T175910Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C048EC.CFBB1540-- From lklaes@bbn.com Tue Nov 7 22:18:54 2000 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 17:18:54 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] One Final, Cheap Shot at Space May I ask why the deadline cannot be extended or a new similar contest created? Larry At 10:00 AM 11/07/2000 -0800, David Anderman wrote: >The CATS Prize will not survive the deadline. > > > >At 09:16 AM 11/7/2000 -0500, Larry Klaes wrote: >>So now that the deadline will obviously pass with no >>winners, what next for CATS? > > >_______________________________________________ >FPSPACE mailing list >FPSPACE@friends-partners.org >http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From lklaes@bbn.com Wed Nov 8 14:23:53 2000 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 09:23:53 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Global Nuclear Test Ban can be Verified Test Ban can be Verified October 31, 2000 07:05 CDT A global nuclear test ban can be reliably verified with existing technology, creating a powerful deterrent against any attempt to cheat, an international panel of scientists said in a report issued Monday, October 30: http://www.cosmiverse.com/science103101.html From HHJanssenWTM@t-online.de Wed Nov 8 18:21:40 2000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:21:40 +0100 From: HHJanssenWTM HHJanssenWTM@t-online.de Subject: [FPSPACE] Jobs of ISS-Crews Hi all, my friends and I have a little problem with the "jobs" during an ISS-mission. The current crew is Shepherd (ISS-Commander), Gidzenko (Soyuz- Commander) and Krikalyov (Flight engineer). But what are the jobs for the second resident crew? Is Usachyov ISS Commander, Voss Soyuz-Commander and Helms Flight engineer, or Usachyov ISS Commander and Flight engineer, and Helms and Voss both Flight engineers ? Are there any rules for describtion of the "jobs"? Thanks in advance, Best wishes Heinz Janssen, Wittmund, Germany Website: http://www.spacefacts.de From l.coren@adriacom.it Wed Nov 8 19:40:51 2000 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:40:51 +0100 From: Luca Coren l.coren@adriacom.it Subject: [FPSPACE] Jobs of ISS-Crews If I am not wrong the "jobs" for the Expedition 2 are Usachev ISS and Soyuz Commander Voss and Helms Flight Engineers ------------------------- Luca Coren Trieste, Italy l.coren@adriacom.it From olaf.bieler@cityweb.de Wed Nov 8 20:53:47 2000 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:53:47 +0100 From: Olaf Bieler olaf.bieler@cityweb.de Subject: [FPSPACE] Who von Braun met --------------47F3B88A6EF6911753DC00EB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Wade wrote: 1945 July - American forces pulled back from areas of East Germany they had occupied but were allocated to Stalin at Yalta. This included the underground slave-labour V-2 production facility at Nordhausen. 1945 August - reconstruction of the V-2 had begun by 150 German specialists lead by Chertok and Isayev at Bleicherode. Bleicherode was selected since it was well inside the Soviet zone, farther from the prying eyes of the American (Peenemuende and Nordhausen were both too visible). Well, I was born in Nordhausen. And at least in the case of Nordhausen I must disagree to Mr. Wade. The cities of Bleicherode and Nordhausen are only 20 km apart. And Bleicherode was closer to the American Sector then Nordhausen. So I think it's more likely that Bleicherode was selected as a result of the terribly bombing raids on Nordausen. More than 74% of the city had been destroyed by British Lancaster bomber on April 3rd / 4th 1945! So Bleicherode was a logical selection. Olaf Bieler --------------47F3B88A6EF6911753DC00EB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Wade wrote:

1945 July -  American forces pulled back from areas of East Germany they had
occupied but were allocated to Stalin at Yalta. This included the
underground slave-labour V-2 production facility at Nordhausen.

1945 August - reconstruction of the V-2 had begun by 150 German specialists
lead by Chertok and Isayev at Bleicherode. Bleicherode was selected since it
was well inside the Soviet zone, farther from the prying eyes of the
American (Peenemuende and Nordhausen were both too visible).

Well, I was born in Nordhausen. And at least in the case of Nordhausen I must disagree to Mr. Wade. The cities of Bleicherode and Nordhausen are only 20 km apart. And Bleicherode was closer to the American Sector then Nordhausen. So I think it's more likely that Bleicherode was selected as a result of the terribly bombing raids on Nordausen. More than 74% of the city had been destroyed by British Lancaster bomber on April 3rd / 4th 1945! So Bleicherode was a logical selection.

Olaf Bieler --------------47F3B88A6EF6911753DC00EB-- From mheney@mach-25.com Wed Nov 8 21:00:16 2000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:00:16 -0500 (EST) From: Michael K. Heney mheney@mach-25.com Subject: [FPSPACE] One Final, Cheap Shot at Space On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Larry Klaes wrote: > > May I ask why the deadline cannot be extended or > a new similar contest created? The deadline will not be extended because: 1) The people with the money (FINDS) have made it clear from the outset that the deadline was "for real"; 2) The person RUNNING the CATS Prize, David Anderman, has worked his tail off on this project for the last 3 years and is ready to be done with it. The Space Frontier Foundation does not have a replacement Prize Manager lined up to replace Mr. Anderman (which makes sense, since there is no Prize to administer per point #1) A new similar contest could readily be created. All you have to do is find someone willing to put up the money, and someone willing to administer the Prize, and you're all set. You can feel free to copy our rules exactly, modify 'em a bit, or completely re-write em (with or without a deadline), because the Golden Rules applies here: "The one with the gold makes the rules." > > Larry > > > At 10:00 AM 11/07/2000 -0800, David Anderman wrote: > > >The CATS Prize will not survive the deadline. > > > > > > > >At 09:16 AM 11/7/2000 -0500, Larry Klaes wrote: > >>So now that the deadline will obviously pass with no > >>winners, what next for CATS? > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >FPSPACE mailing list > >FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > >http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > > > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From tcools@village.uunet.be Wed Nov 8 21:52:46 2000 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 22:52:46 +0100 From: Tristan Cools tcools@village.uunet.be Subject: [FPSPACE] Challenge To Apollo At 18:59 7-11-00 +0100, you wrote: >Today I got the book, together with 1m (3 ft) plastic sack (?!) from French >(?) post. > >Damir > >http://pubwww.srce.hr/damirspace > Yeah, me too ! It was a yellow sack from 'La Poste'.(a collectors item !) With this I want to congratulate Asif Siddiqi with writing this book. This will be a great reference work for the years to come. Greetings, Tristan Cools tcools@village.uunet.be Belgian Working Group Satellites(BWGS) Damse Vaart: 3.2478E/51.2277N - OBS place 1 Ryckevelde: 3.2856E/51.2045N - OBS place 2 Brugge: 3.2166E/51.2104N - OBS place 3(home) HTTP://gallery.uunet.be/tcools/satimage/index.htm From SWotzlaw@t-online.de Thu Nov 9 08:29:21 2000 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:29:21 +0100 From: Stefan Wotzlaw SWotzlaw@t-online.de Subject: [FPSPACE] Novosti Kosmonavtiki on-line Dear Bart Hendricks et.al., I was able to open the "news" page of NK online (www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/news.shtml) without any problems. Here are some of the most interesting facts at these page: - Soyuz TM-31 spacecraft has the production number 206. - the preparation of Proton-K No. 401-01 (launch vehicle of GE-1A, launched on October 2,2000)set a new record for Proton ( 15 days, breaking the old record of 19 days). The vehicle was delivered to Baikonur on September 14 and assembled in MIK 92-1, the Proton vehicle assembly building. - the launch of Sirius-3 with Proton-K launch vehicle is planned for November 30, 2000. - the first launch of the new Proton-M launch vehicle and Breeze-M upper stage and Ekran-M payload has been postponed, indefinitely. It was planned for November 5, 2000. The new vehicle was delivered to Baikonur on July 3, 2000 and stored in MIK 92A-50 inside a new and huge assembly hall. There were found a lot a failures with the new digital guidance and control system. There is a discussion to send back the vehicle to the Khrunichev factory in Moscow. Greetings to all, Stefan Wotzlaw, Dessau, Germany From Rex.D.Hall@tesco.net Thu Nov 9 13:02:18 2000 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:02:18 -0000 From: Rex Hall Rex.D.Hall@tesco.net Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS crews This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C04A4D.4A3FB440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Following up on the subject.If you visit the Novosti Kosmonautica web = site they list the designations of some crews. ISS Commander ,Pilot and Flight Engineer. So I think Usachev is ISS Commander.Helms and Voss are Flight = Engineers.The description of Pilot will only come into use if a Soyuz is = going to be used.So Usachev is the pilot if they use the Emergency = vehicle. This will hold for all missions.Remember the next crew to be launched on = a Soyuz will be ISS 7.Budarin on ISS 6 is therefore ISS Commander and = Pilot. I guess they will also be a Mission Specialist designation for those on = STS missions. Rex Hall ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C04A4D.4A3FB440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Following up on the subject.If you = visit the=20 Novosti Kosmonautica web site they list the designations of some=20 crews.
 
ISS Commander ,Pilot and Flight=20 Engineer.
 
So I think Usachev is ISS = Commander.Helms and Voss=20 are Flight Engineers.The description of Pilot will only come into use if = a Soyuz=20 is going to be used.So Usachev is the pilot if they use the Emergency=20 vehicle.
This will hold for all = missions.Remember the next=20 crew to be launched on a Soyuz will be ISS 7.Budarin on ISS 6 is = therefore ISS=20 Commander and Pilot.
 
I guess they will also be a Mission = Specialist=20 designation for those on STS missions.
 
Rex Hall
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_007B_01C04A4D.4A3FB440-- From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Thu Nov 9 14:35:33 2000 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:35:33 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS crews This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C04A62.B300D300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It looks like the ISS crews will return back with the Shuttle and also = sent to the Station, with the Shuttle. The Soyuz spacecraft is meant as a rescue vehicle. I remember reading those spacecrafts could remain something like 6 = months in space before extending too far their design life. How long can the actual Soyuz spacecrafts safely remain in orbit, = attached to ISS? =20 Raoul ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C04A62.B300D300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
It looks like the ISS crews will return back with = the=20 Shuttle and also sent to the Station, with the Shuttle.
The Soyuz spacecraft is meant as a rescue=20 vehicle.
I remember reading those spacecrafts could=20 remain something like 6 months in space before extending too far = their=20 design life.
How long can the actual Soyuz spacecrafts safely = remain in=20 orbit, attached to ISS?  
 
Raoul
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C04A62.B300D300-- From JamesOberg@aol.com Thu Nov 9 16:04:49 2000 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:04:49 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia names politician to military cosmonaut corps Aerospace Daily, Nov 9, 2000 Russia names politician to military cosmonaut corps MOSCOW - The presiding board of the Russian Aerospace Agency has named to the military cosmonaut corps a local politician who played a key role in setting up the agency after the Soviet Union fell. The agency's "Collegia" named Yuri Loktionov to the air force cosmonaut group at Star City, near Moscow, at its Oct. 19 meeting. Loktionov was at the center of major space policy battles in the early 1990's when he was a Moscow Region member of the Council, a regional parliament, as well as one of the key lobbyists of the Russian Supreme Council Commission on Space and Telecommunication in the efforts that later led to creation of the Russian Space Agency in 1993. Loktionov's space career started at RSC Energia, where he prepared crew flight manuals and later worked in mission control support groups. Later he served as a consultant to Yuri Koptiev, head of the space agency, and worked with Cryogenmash, a ground equipment manufacturer. But by leaving Energia in 1988 he effectively lost his chance to become a cosmonaut under the existing procedure. Even so, Loktionov has persisted in his efforts to join the cosmonauts' group, even though he was completely "off-system" for both civilian and military selection and recruitment routines. In 1997-98 he played a role as Yuri Baturin, a defense aide to former President Boris Yeltsin, made his successful bid to fly to Mir (DAILY, Aug. 14, 1998), and for a time was informally considered as a possible backup to Baturin'. The Collegia decision does not necessarily mean Loktionov will actually fly to space, as he himself admitted, because it as unclear for which program Loktionov could be prepared. "I can't say for sure what program I am going to be trained for," Loktionov told The DAILY. "If [Mir] station is working, I will go there; otherwise, I will be training for the ISS. Actually, the [ISS] Service Module is practically the same Mir-2 we were designing for a long time before they even started to talk about Alpha station. And as for Mir-2, I even got an invention certificate together with the group of engineers who designed a new airlock structure." - Dmitry Pieson (dpieson@mail.ru) From l.coren@adriacom.it Thu Nov 9 17:19:46 2000 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:19:46 +0100 From: Luca Coren l.coren@adriacom.it Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS crews "How long can the actual Soyuz spacecrafts safely remain in orbit, attached to ISS?" If I remember correctly the Soyuz that spent the most time in space was Soyuz-TM 27. Launched on Jan. 29, 1998; landed on Aug. 25, 1998; the spacecraft spent 207 days in space. ------------- Luca COren Trieste, Italy l.coren@adriacom.it From John.Nolan@aero.org Thu Nov 9 18:44:25 2000 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:44:25 -0800 From: Nolan John R Aerospace John.Nolan@aero.org Subject: [FPSPACE] Time To Declassify Historical Imagery -----Original Message----- From: Dwayne Allen Day [mailto:wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu] Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 4:32 PM "he spooks want .5 meter commercial systems and they will then buy the imagery." Actually the commercial companies applied for licenses for the higher resolutions systems in hopes that they can sell it to the government. Their origional business plans thought that the commercial market for 1 meter imagery would take off once on orbit and that they could survive by themselves, but now they complain that the government is not buying enough imagery to keep them in business. From dave.woods@lmco.com Thu Nov 9 16:41:52 2000 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:41:52 -0500 From: Woods, Dave dave.woods@lmco.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia names politician to military cosmonaut corps Two interesting items with this posting. First, I believe this is the first mention of the name of "Alpha" by anyone from the Russian side, other than the current ISS crew. Previous postings had suggested that it had connotations of "Alpha" meaning the first space station, and thus ignoring the contributions of earlier Salyut, Mir and Skylab stations. Looks like the name is being accepted. Secondly, the Aerospace Daily article itself was prepared by Dmitry Pieson, one of our Russian contributors to discussions on FPSPACE. Congratulation, Dima. We look for many more. Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: JamesOberg@aol.com [SMTP:JamesOberg@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 11:05 AM > To: fpspace@friends-partners.org > Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia names politician to military cosmonaut > corps > > > Aerospace Daily, Nov 9, 2000 > > Russia names politician to military cosmonaut corps > > "I can't say for sure what program I am going to be trained for," > Loktionov told The DAILY. "If [Mir] station is working, I will go there; > otherwise, I will be training for the ISS. Actually, the [ISS] Service > Module is practically the same Mir-2 we were designing for a long time > before they even started to talk about Alpha station. And as for Mir-2, I > even got an invention certificate together with the group of engineers who > designed a new airlock structure." > - Dmitry Pieson (dpieson@mail.ru) > From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Thu Nov 9 22:20:22 2000 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:20:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia names politician to military cosmonaut corps On Thu, 9 Nov 2000, Woods, Dave wrote: > Two interesting items with this posting. First, I believe this is the first > mention of the name of "Alpha" by anyone from the Russian side, other > than the current ISS crew. Previous postings had suggested that it > had connotations of "Alpha" meaning the first space station, and thus > ignoring the contributions of earlier Salyut, Mir and Skylab stations. > Looks like the name is being accepted. Well, note that it is a cosmonaut saying this, not a Russian space official. Shepherd and his fellow colleagues in orbit clearly liked the name, but it was Dan Goldin and Russian space officials who were not thrilled with it. > Secondly, the Aerospace Daily article itself was prepared by Dmitry > Pieson, one of our Russian contributors to discussions on FPSPACE. > Congratulation, Dima. We look for many more. Ditto on the congrats. DDAY From M.Wade@iaea.org Fri Nov 10 08:27:21 2000 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:27:21 +0100 From: M.Wade@iaea.org M.Wade@iaea.org Subject: [FPSPACE] Space Station Alpha Actually, I have noticed that the Russian rank-and-file have persistently used the name Alpha for years, ever since it was renamed ISS. It cropped up in engineering briefings, news reports, books, etc long after the renaming. My understanding was that it was Semenov who objected to the Alpha name, because of the connotation that it was the 'first' station (as opposed to the real 'first' station - Mir). But actually I believe the name Alpha originated because it was one of three replacement configurations - A, B, and C - considered when Freedom was cancelled). Goldin therefore agreed to the renaming to keep Semenov happy. But those working on it seem to have wanted to keep the Alpha name - and with a little help from on-orbit conspirators, seem to have finally won out... ========================== Mark Wade From lklaes@bbn.com Fri Nov 10 13:42:39 2000 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:42:39 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] The next time someone says the Apollo lunar landings were faked... ...point them to this Web site: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html From lklaes@bbn.com Fri Nov 10 13:50:18 2000 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:50:18 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS brightness in night sky overestimated It will not even be as bright as Venus, at least in its current configuration: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/news/index.html From M.Wade@iaea.org Fri Nov 10 15:58:02 2000 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:58:02 +0100 From: M.Wade@iaea.org M.Wade@iaea.org Subject: [FPSPACE] New Salyut 3 Pictures - Cannon? Dietrich Haeseler has found two photos which show Salyut-3 during assembly (in Rosaviakosmos: Vassily Omelko (editor) "Baikonur Kosmodrom", Moscow, OMV-Luch NPP, 2000, 224 p incl. many color illustrations) and on top of the Proton launcher. He wonders if the white tunnel-like fairings along the smaller cylinder the housings of the rumoured cannon ? If not, what (structural supports? SLAR antennae?)? Any and all opinions / facts invited... They are posted temporarily at: http://www.friends-partners.org/~mwade/graphics/s/sal3pad1.jpg http://www.friends-partners.org/~mwade/graphics/s/sal3pad1.jpg http://www.friends-partners.org/~mwade/graphics/s/sal3shop.jpg Mark Wade http://www.friends-partners.org/~mwade/spaceflt.htm ========================== Mark Wade m.wade@iaea.org From robert.c.dempsey1@jsc.nasa.gov Fri Nov 10 18:33:13 2000 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:33:13 -0600 From: DEMPSEY, ROBERT C. (JSC-DF25) robert.c.dempsey1@jsc.nasa.gov Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS brightness in night sky overestimated Note sure where Yahoo got their info - the NASA press releases state that at assembly complete ISS will be the 3rd brightest. I have never heard it stated to be brighter or as bright as Venus. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Klaes [mailto:lklaes@bbn.com] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 7:50 AM To: fpspace@solar.rtd.utk.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS brightness in night sky overestimated It will not even be as bright as Venus, at least in its current configuration: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/news/index.html _______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list FPSPACE@friends-partners.org http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace From psclark@dircon.co.uk Fri Nov 10 18:41:50 2000 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:41:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Phillip Clark psclark@dircon.co.uk Subject: [FPSPACE] Bei Dou 1 location Since a lot of people interested in things Russian are also interested in China ...... USSPACECOM has finally found Bei Dou 1 in geosynch orbit. They show that it is located over 140 deg E which is registered as Chinasat-32. This suggests that there will be two other satellites in orbit over 80 deg E (Chinasat-31) and 110.5 deg E (Chinasat-33). So, it seems that each of the Chinasat-0X, Chinasat-1X, Chinasat-2X, Chinasat-3X and Chinasat-4X locations relate to a different GEO system and that each system need not be for communications. Phillip Clark --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phillip S Clark 22 Winterbourne Close Molniya Space Consultancy Hastings Compiler/Publisher, Worldwide Satellite Launches E Sussex TN34 1XG U.K. Specialist in "space archeology" - the older and more obscure the more interesting it is ! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lklaes@bbn.com Fri Nov 10 19:00:44 2000 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:00:44 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Article on Cold War lunar base plans in Sept./Oct., 2000 issue of The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists The online article titled "Shooting for the Moon" by Jeffrey T. Richelson describes the various plans the US military had for lunar bases in the 1960s to secure the very high ground for the forces of democracy: http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/2000/so00/so00richelson.html Larry From powellj@ucalgary.ca Sat Nov 11 01:08:21 2000 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:08:21 -0700 (MST) From: Joel Powell powellj@ucalgary.ca Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS Progress delayed, Mir deorbit funds allocated? Hello everyone, > NASAWatch.com is reporting that the next Progress launch, already > delayed until December, is being... Just to clarify, the next Progress to ISS is being launched next week (Nov 14th I think): I presume that report refers to the *third* Progress scheduled for the station? Joel Powell From G.Sassen@net.hcc.nl Sat Nov 11 10:23:21 2000 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:23:21 +0100 From: Geert Sassen G.Sassen@net.hcc.nl Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS/Alpha reboost Hi All, does anyone know how ISS/Alpha is going to do a reboost when there isn't a Shuttle docked ( for instance a manoeuvre to avoid space debris) with Soyuz TM31 docked to Zvezda's rear port and a Progress docked to Zarya's nadir port? With its rear port occupied I suppose Zvezda's main engines can't be used, while the Soyuz fuel reserves aren't big enough to provide much capacity. During Mir missions the Progress engines were often used for reboosts, but if the Progress is docked to the nadir port I don't know if it's engine vector would be anywhere near the centre or gravity (in other words firing its engine might start a spin instead of a reboost). It still seems more logical to have the Progress on the rear port and a Soyuz on the nadir port... Regards, Geert Sassen http://www.inter.nl.net/hcc/Geert From JamesOberg@aol.com Sat Nov 11 18:31:07 2000 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:31:07 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Photo of Mir's SFOG Apparatus? Does anybody have any good photographs (or URLs of NASA views), in flight or in simulators, of the Solid Fuel Oxygen Generator, the SFOG, on Mir, that caused the fires in 1994 and 1997? Thanks! Jim From svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Sun Nov 12 16:40:44 2000 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:40:44 +0100 From: Sven Grahn svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Subject: [FPSPACE] New article at my Web site- Soviet spoof frequencies? Dear friends, I have added the article "Signals that were never heard - strange satellite frequencies published by TASS" to my Web site. * Go to http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn * Click on "What's new?" * Select entry for 12 November 2000 Best Wishes Sven Grahn From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Sun Nov 12 21:00:02 2000 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:00:02 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] N1 launches on TV Hello, At this moment, there are fascinating color TV pictures of the N1 four launches in a flemish program. The third was launched and the pictures are seen from a distance. The sky is all reddish. it exploded at an altitude (must have used a zoom to picture it) (sorry, I haven't recorded the program from the very beginning, but do now-I hope Bart, Tristan and Koen are seeing it too). Ingeneers from Aerojet went to visit a warehouse loaded with NK33 engines (20some) and were totally baffled by what they saw. They sent one of them to Sacramento for testing in 1995 (NKP2) and it was successful: Soviets had a 20 year old technology not yet available in the USA. That technology is now used for the Atlas rocket (RD180). Morality: the Russians can be and are needed partners in the launch industry. Raoul Lannoy Nerviersstraat 19 2018 Antwerpen, Belgium Tel: 32.3.288.55.67 GSM:0486.89.24.61 51d12m25sN-4d25m21sE http://membres.tripod.fr/Ad_Astra/index-11.html http://users.pandora.be/raoul.lannoy/index.htm From bhen@tijd.com Sun Nov 12 22:31:34 2000 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:31:34 +0100 From: Bart Hendrickx bhen@tijd.com Subject: [FPSPACE] N1 launches on TV Raoul Lannoy wrote : >At this moment, there are fascinating color TV pictures of the N1 four >launches in a flemish program. >The third was launched and the pictures are seen from a distance. The sky >is all reddish. it exploded at an altitude (must have used a zoom to >picture it) (sorry, I haven't recorded the program from the very beginning, >but do now-I hope Bart, Tristan and Koen are seeing it too). Yes, Raoul, I did see the documentary, which was a Dutch-language version of a US documentary. There was no indication what the original English title was, only that it was produced by a certain Dan Clifton. It featured interviews with Charles Vick and James Harford. I think most or all of the N-1 footage in this documentary was from a compilation of N-1 pictures released by the Videocosmos organisation in Moscow a couple of years ago. There was also footage of the July 1969 N-1 pad explosion taken from the RKK Energiya 1946-1996 video. The Videocosmos compilation included a 1973 in-house movie of KBOM, the design bureau that built the N-1 launch pads. A lot of the footage shown in the documentary was from the KBOM movie. Actually, I'm quite sure the vehicle shown in the KBOM movie is 7L, the fourth N-1. Mishin was shown watching the footage and said it was the third launch, but that was a pre-dawn launch, so he must have been mistaken. One thing that I don't recall having seen elsewhere was the apparent break-up of an N-1. I say apparent, because it was shown from too far to be sure that it was an N-1. It may well have been an entirely different rocket. Perhaps Charles Vick knows. The documentary was slightly misleading in that it began and ended with footage of the first Atlas-3 launch (carrying NPO Energomash's RD-180), while the rest of it was devoted to the history of Kuznetsov's NK engines. There was not a word about the fact that the NK-33 is yet to make its first flight (and may never do so unless Kistler finally works out its problems) and that the RD-180 is an altogether different engine than the NK-33. I'm sure that many casual viewers went away with the impression that the Russian engine used on the Atlas-3 is the NK-33. But that's enough nitpicking. It was fun watching. Bart Hendrickx From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Sun Nov 12 23:15:31 2000 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:15:31 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Komorov and space urban legends Jim Oberg has written here and elsewhere about how a number of people have come up to him in the US and claimed to have worked for the US National Security Agency or the Air Force and heard Cosmonaut Komorov's last words as he fell in his Soyuz-1 space capsule after the parachutes failed to open. Oberg has said that these people usually say that Komorov cursed the designers and said that he loved his wife and then the radio went dead. Jim said that he has heard the story so many times that he no longer believes it is true--not everyone could have heard these last words. I was just reading Bart Hendrix's wonderful JBIS paper on the Kamanin diaries and he discusses Komorov's flight. It is clear that there were NO transmissions from the spacecraft after retrofire and that the audio flight recorder was destroyed in the crash. In other words, Komorov did not make the transmissions that people have told Jim Oberg that they heard. However... We know that the US routinely intercepted Soviet manned spacecraft telemetry. (I thought it was a big deal when I came across CIA documents referring to Alexei Leonov's heart rate during his spacewalk. But it turns out that an American military doctor had intercepted some of the same information with his home radio set.) It is clear from Kamanin's diary, as well as other places, that Soyuz-1 was a trouble-plagued flight. It strikes me as entirely possible that Komorov did a lot of complaining about his problem-plagued spacecraft during his flight and that these complaints were probably intercepted by US intelligence services. Then Komorov dies in the crash. After that, the rumors start to spread (rumors do indeed spread in top secret organizations) that the US intercepted Komorov's dying words. Thus, while it is unlikely that the people who tell Oberg about these things are telling the whole truth, there may be a kernel (see: corn) of truth to their stories. Some may have heard about the tapes. Or some may have actually heard portions of the tapes (perhaps Komorov telling the designers that they had really messed up). These stories then got exagerrated and personalized. There have been a few books written on urban legends and how they spread. One of their traits is that people hear them, think they are good stories, but worry that they will not be believed if they repeat them. So they tend to say "I heard this myself" instead of "I heard somebody tell me about this." I think that is a characteristic of this story. And it might be worthwhile for Oberg to grill the next person who tells him that he heard Komorov's dying words--maybe he can find out more about how these stories perpetuate themselves. DDAY From clj@emc.com Mon Nov 13 12:23:29 2000 Date: 13 Nov 2000 07:23:29 -0500 From: Chris Jones clj@emc.com Subject: [FPSPACE] ISS Progress delayed, Mir deorbit funds allocated? Joel Powell writes: > NASAWatch.com is reporting that the next Progress launch, already > delayed until December, is being... Just to clarify, the next Progress to ISS is being launched next week (Nov 14th I think): I presume that report refers to the *third* Progress scheduled for the station? That's right. I had the two confused in my mind; I'm now not sure if the December Progress had previously been delayed (beyond the delays caused by the launch of Zvezda). From albonnici@vol.net.mt Mon Nov 13 16:51:29 2000 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:51:29 +0100 From: Alex Michael Bonnici albonnici@vol.net.mt Subject: [FPSPACE] Join the Towards 2001 and Beyond Club with Yahoo!!! --------------18EDA77878BBF175537A661D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Gang, I would like you to join the online club at Yahoo entitled "Towards 2001 and Beyond." Founder's Message Towards 2001 and Beyond: Humanity's Future In Space, is a forum where members can discuss our future as a spacefaring civilization. To become a member of this club, just go to the Web address below: http://join.clubs.yahoo.com/config/sjg?.k=8C939f06d19BlgVZ You need to go to the address above to join, but you can first take a look by going to: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/towards2001andbeyond You can learn more about Albonnici_1998 by looking at the Yahoo! Public Profile: http://profiles.yahoo.com/Albonnici_1998 Note: This invitation will expire after 7 days, or after being used. A Yahoo! Club is a great way to bring friends, family or anyone you know together using the latest in Web technologies. Club members are able to take advantage of a club's private chat room, message boards and other features. You can also create your own free club focused on any interest, such as hobbies, families and industry associations. Clubs are either listed or unlisted. Listed clubs are available to the public while unlisted clubs are available exclusively to those who receive invitations. If you have no interest in joining this club, there is no need for you to do anything. You will not be enrolled as a member. Thanks, Alex Michael Bonnici http://www.geocities.com/CapeCannnaveral/8505 --------------18EDA77878BBF175537A661D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Gang,
             I would like you to join the online club at Yahoo entitled
"Towards 2001 and Beyond." Founder's Message  Towards 2001 and Beyond:
Humanity's Future In Space, is a forum where members can discuss our
future as a spacefaring civilization.

To become a member of this club, just go to the
Web address below:
http://join.clubs.yahoo.com/config/sjg?.k=8C939f06d19BlgVZ

You need to go to the address above to join,
but you can first take a look by going to:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/towards2001andbeyond
 

You can learn more about Albonnici_1998 by
looking at the Yahoo! Public Profile:
http://profiles.yahoo.com/Albonnici_1998

Note: This invitation will expire after 7 days, or after
being used.

A Yahoo! Club is a great way to bring friends, family or
anyone you know together using the latest in Web
technologies. Club members are able to take advantage of
a club's private chat room, message boards and other
features. You can also create your own free club focused
on any interest, such as hobbies, families and industry
associations.

Clubs are either listed or unlisted. Listed clubs are
available to the public while unlisted clubs are
available exclusively to those who receive invitations.

If you have no interest in joining this club, there is
no need for you to do anything. You will not be
enrolled as a member.

Thanks,

Alex Michael Bonnici

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCannnaveral/8505
 
 
  --------------18EDA77878BBF175537A661D-- From cpvick@fas.org Mon Nov 13 17:09:29 2000 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:09:29 -0500 From: Charles P. Vick cpvick@fas.org Subject: [FPSPACE] N1 launches on TV Dear Bart, The program was done by Ideal world of London and Glasgow, UK. My interface was John Lloyd and Dan Clifton producer. Basically they did a fair job on the US side and the Kuznetsov side. I wrote them about the errors which I seem to have lost unless Dave has a copy available. There is only new footage for the NK series of engines there including the major engine static test firing failure in 1968. There is no new N1 footage. With in the program they may the following basic mistakes: 1. They identified 7L as 3L IE the 3L is the gray bird. 2. No debre's caused the first failure of 3L only on 5L. 3. 5L caused by debree etc. 4. No third flight that Mishin described is the 7L bird of the 4th flight. He gets the numbers mixed as he has him self told me because he did not attend the 7L launch due to heart problems that hospitalized him at the time. Chertok was the launch director for 7L. 5. There was no reuse of the #L and 5L launch pad for the other N1 flight test. It rebuild was not completed until 1972, 73 based on Corona imagery. Basically the overly simplified story of the program is about what I did in Huntsville, Alabama in the 1980's with the RED STAR - 2000 and other briefings under David Christianson and my college friend David Dooling at UAH ( AIAA, NSC) and MSFC for NASA/MSFC, DOD, USAF, Industry, and the other interested US Gov't communities that attended. After my briefings that went on for several years of repeated updated discussions. It was then applied by Jerry Thomson then of MSFC to the NLS new closed and open cycle propulsion studies. I had for some time also been discussing this with the P & W President Donald Witt now retired who initially headed up the NLS propulsion development group for industry at P & W both in West Palm Beach and Huntsville. Once the NLS competition had started I had to be very careful not to reveal to industry what I had discussed with Jerry Thomson for NASA and the USAF. I handled my self very professionally and correctly as I have been credited to have done. Jerry Thomson left MSFC and went with Aerojet. Based on my efforts he went to Russia repeatedly carried out the tours and made the contacts you hear about in the program. My good friend Mr. Bill Hoffman worked under Jerry Thomson who is now retired to his ranch in the Huntsville-Tenn. area. Don Witt of P & W then went after the RD-170, 171 and its derivations RD-180, RD-190 for which Mr. Bob Ford of now Lockheed Martin carried out. P & W got the RD-180 before Aerojet got the NK-33. In both cases it was done to acquire the closed cycle engine technology and manufacturing, materials processing etc. to make up for 25 plus years of lack of US rocket engine technology R & D investment by the US Government. While at the same time it has provided gainful employment to the Russian entities involved. The RD-180 infact as did the RD-170 greatly benefitted from the NK-15/NK-33 experience but is still not as good as the NK-33. Kistler infact has funding for three flights of their booster which is moving along rapidly now. I do not know what happened to Rocketdyne except the really did not get the point and did not benefit except they are now developing the NLS derivative engine for Delta-4. To make a long historic story short to quote Jerry Thomoson who said to me " If it were not for what you did none of this would have been possible". I also have official letters to that from MSFC from Jerry Thomson's office. Of course no good deed for your country goes unpunished. A lot of what I did was not understood and was not appreciated. The revenge of some was total on me. It was very expensive to me personally. Ultimately those responsible for that great cost to me and what they had done to others were removed from office in total. I managed to some how survive and save my Russian Space Library thanks to FAS, and Mr. John Pike. But as of January 1, 2001 that will be over also unless something changes. Where I will go at this point is unclear. Work on understanding this engine technology continues in the US to this day. There is still much to be learned. This is why P&W and Aerojet have on going contracts with Energomash and Kuznetsov. I still hope that the NK-33 will power the Space Shuttle fly back boosters which was my ultimate goal all along. This may yet come true as I dreamed years ago when I was to young to understand its meaning. It was a rare privilege to have the opportunity to do what I did for this country and Russia. I do not regret it in spite of the cost to me personally. Somehow I hope I will be able to survive and finish my book of the Soviet Manned Lunar programs. > >All the Best, >Charles P. Vick > >At 11:31 PM 11/12/00 +0100, you wrote: >>Raoul Lannoy wrote : >> >>>At this moment, there are fascinating color TV pictures of the N1 four >>>launches in a flemish program. >>>The third was launched and the pictures are seen from a distance. The sky >>>is all reddish. it exploded at an altitude (must have used a zoom to >>>picture it) (sorry, I haven't recorded the program from the very beginning, >>>but do now-I hope Bart, Tristan and Koen are seeing it too). >> >>Yes, Raoul, I did see the documentary, which was a Dutch-language version of >>a US documentary. There was no indication what the original English title >>was, only that it was produced by a certain Dan Clifton. It featured >>interviews with Charles Vick and James Harford. >> >>I think most or all of the N-1 footage in this documentary was from a >>compilation of N-1 pictures released by the Videocosmos organisation in >>Moscow a couple of years ago. There was also footage of the July 1969 N-1 >>pad explosion taken from the RKK Energiya 1946-1996 video. The Videocosmos >>compilation included a 1973 in-house movie of KBOM, the design bureau that >>built the N-1 launch pads. A lot of the footage shown in the documentary was >>from the KBOM movie. Actually, I'm quite sure the vehicle shown in the KBOM >>movie is 7L, the fourth N-1. Mishin was shown watching the footage and said >>it was the third launch, but that was a pre-dawn launch, so he must have >>been mistaken. One thing that I don't recall having seen elsewhere was the >>apparent break-up of an N-1. I say apparent, because it was shown from too >>far to be sure that it was an N-1. It may well have been an entirely >>different rocket. Perhaps Charles Vick knows. >> >>The documentary was slightly misleading in that it began and ended with >>footage of the first Atlas-3 launch (carrying NPO Energomash's RD-180), >>while the rest of it was devoted to the history of Kuznetsov's NK engines. >>There was not a word about the fact that the NK-33 is yet to make its first >>flight (and may never do so unless Kistler finally works out its problems) >>and that the RD-180 is an altogether different engine than the NK-33. I'm >>sure that many casual viewers went away with the impression that the Russian >>engine used on the Atlas-3 is the NK-33. But that's enough nitpicking. It >>was fun watching. >> >>Bart Hendrickx >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>FPSPACE mailing list >>FPSPACE@friends-partners.org >>http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace >> >> > _______________________ Charles P. Vick Research Analyst Federation of American Scientists phone: (202) 675-1025 fax: (202) 675-1024 email: cpvick@fas.org http://www.fas.org/ From cpvick@fas.org Mon Nov 13 17:17:32 2000 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:17:32 -0500 From: Charles P. Vick cpvick@fas.org Subject: [FPSPACE] N1 launches on TV >Dear Bart, > > The program was done by Ideal world of London and Glasgow, UK. My interface was John Lloyd and Dan Clifton producer. Basically they did a fair job on the US side and the Kuznetsov side. I wrote them about the errors which I seem to have lost unless Dave has a copy available. There is only new footage for the NK series of engines there including the major engine static test firing failure in 1968. There is no new N1 footage. With in the program they may the following basic mistakes: >1. They identified 7L as 3L IE the 3L is the gray bird. >2. No debre's caused the first failure of 3L only on 5L. >3. 5L caused by debree etc. >4. No third flight that Mishin described is the 7L bird of the 4th flight. He gets the numbers mixed as he has him self told me because he did not attend the 7L launch due to heart problems that hospitalized him at the time. Chertok was the launch director for 7L. >5. There was no reuse of the #L and 5L launch pad for the other N1 flight test. It rebuild was not completed until 1972, 73 based on Corona imagery. > Basically the overly simplified story of the program is about what I did in Huntsville, Alabama in the 1980's with the RED STAR - 2000 and other briefings under David Christianson and my college friend David Dooling at UAH ( AIAA, NSC) and MSFC for NASA/MSFC, DOD, USAF, Industry, and the other interested US Gov't communities that attended. After my briefings that went on for several years of repeated updated discussions. It was then applied by Jerry Thomson then of MSFC to the NLS new closed and open cycle propulsion studies. I had for some time also been discussing this with the P & W President Donald Witt now retired who initially headed up the NLS propulsion development group for industry at P & W both in West Palm Beach and Huntsville. Once the NLS competition had started I had to be very careful not to reveal to industry what I had discussed with Jerry Thomson for NASA and the USAF. I handled my self very professionally and correctly as I have been credited to have done. Jerry Thomson left MSFC and went with Aerojet. Based on my efforts he went to Russia repeatedly carried out the tours and made the contacts you hear about in the program. My good friend Mr. Bill Hoffman worked under Jerry Thomson who is now retired to his ranch in the Huntsville-Tenn. area. Don Witt of P & W then went after the RD-170, 171 and its derivations RD-180, RD-190 for which Mr. Bob Ford of now Lockheed Martin carried out. P & W got the RD-180 before Aerojet got the NK-33. In both cases it was done to acquire the closed cycle engine technology and manufacturing, materials processing etc. to make up for 25 plus years of lack of US rocket engine technology R & D investment by the US Government. While at the same time it has provided gainful employment to the Russian entities involved. The RD-180 infact as did the RD-170 greatly benefitted from the NK-15/NK-33 experience but is still not as good as the NK-33. Kistler infact has funding for three flights of their booster which is moving along rapidly now. I do not know what happened to Rocketdyne except the really did not get the point and did not benefit except they are now developing the NLS derivative engine for Delta-4. To make a long historic story short to quote Jerry Thomoson who said to me " If it were not for what you did none of this would have been possible". I also have official letters to that from MSFC from Jerry Thomson's office. > Of course no good deed for your country goes unpunished. A lot of what I did was not understood and was not appreciated. The revenge of some was total on me. It was very expensive to me personally. Ultimately those responsible for that great cost to me and what they had done to others were removed from office in total. I managed to some how survive and save my Russian Space Library thanks to FAS, and Mr. John Pike. But as of January 1, 2001 that will be over also unless something changes. Where I will go at this point is unclear. Work on understanding this engine technology continues in the US to this day. There is still much to be learned. This is why P&W and Aerojet have on going contracts with Energomash and Kuznetsov. I still hope that the NK-33 will power the Space Shuttle fly back boosters which was my ultimate goal all along. This may yet come true as I dreamed years ago when I was to young to understand its meaning. It was a rare privilege to have the opportunity to do what I did for this country and Russia. I do not regret it in spite of the cost to me personally. Somehow I hope I will be able to survive and finish my book of the Soviet Manned Lunar programs. >> >>All the Best, >>Charles P. Vick >> >>At 11:31 PM 11/12/00 +0100, you wrote: >>>Raoul Lannoy wrote : >>> >>>>At this moment, there are fascinating color TV pictures of the N1 four >>>>launches in a flemish program. >>>>The third was launched and the pictures are seen from a distance. The sky >>>>is all reddish. it exploded at an altitude (must have used a zoom to >>>>picture it) (sorry, I haven't recorded the program from the very beginning, >>>>but do now-I hope Bart, Tristan and Koen are seeing it too). >>> >>>Yes, Raoul, I did see the documentary, which was a Dutch-language version of >>>a US documentary. There was no indication what the original English title >>>was, only that it was produced by a certain Dan Clifton. It featured >>>interviews with Charles Vick and James Harford. >>> >>>I think most or all of the N-1 footage in this documentary was from a >>>compilation of N-1 pictures released by the Videocosmos organisation in >>>Moscow a couple of years ago. There was also footage of the July 1969 N-1 >>>pad explosion taken from the RKK Energiya 1946-1996 video. The Videocosmos >>>compilation included a 1973 in-house movie of KBOM, the design bureau that >>>built the N-1 launch pads. A lot of the footage shown in the documentary was >>>from the KBOM movie. Actually, I'm quite sure the vehicle shown in the KBOM >>>movie is 7L, the fourth N-1. Mishin was shown watching the footage and said >>>it was the third launch, but that was a pre-dawn launch, so he must have >>>been mistaken. One thing that I don't recall having seen elsewhere was the >>>apparent break-up of an N-1. I say apparent, because it was shown from too >>>far to be sure that it was an N-1. It may well have been an entirely >>>different rocket. Perhaps Charles Vick knows. >>> >>>The documentary was slightly misleading in that it began and ended with >>>footage of the first Atlas-3 launch (carrying NPO Energomash's RD-180), >>>while the rest of it was devoted to the history of Kuznetsov's NK engines. >>>There was not a word about the fact that the NK-33 is yet to make its first >>>flight (and may never do so unless Kistler finally works out its problems) >>>and that the RD-180 is an altogether different engine than the NK-33. I'm >>>sure that many casual viewers went away with the impression that the Russian >>>engine used on the Atlas-3 is the NK-33. But that's enough nitpicking. It >>>was fun watching. >>> >>>Bart Hendrickx >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>FPSPACE mailing list >>>FPSPACE@friends-partners.org >>>http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace >>> >>> >> > _______________________ Charles P. Vick Research Analyst Federation of American Scientists phone: (202) 675-1025 fax: (202) 675-1024 email: cpvick@fas.org http://www.fas.org/ From davida@cwo.com Mon Nov 13 18:04:46 2000 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:04:46 -0800 From: David Anderman davida@cwo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Kistler launches If this were true, this would be excellent news, indeed! At 12:09 PM 11/13/2000 -0500, Charles P. Vick wrote: >Kistler in fact has funding for three flights of their booster which is >moving along rapidly now. From robot@ultimax.com Mon Nov 13 18:44:53 2000 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:44:53 -0400 From: Robert G Kennedy III robot@ultimax.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: NK-33 Raoul Lannoy wrote: >but do now-I hope Bart, Tristan and Koen are seeing it too). Ingeneers from >Aerojet went to visit a warehouse loaded with NK33 engines (20some) and were >totally baffled by what they saw. They sent one of them to Sacramento for >testing in 1995 (NKP2) and it was successful: Soviets had a 20 year old >technology not yet available in the USA. That technology is now used for the >Atlas rocket (RD180). They brought at least one engine over, earlier, I think. On 05Oct94, the gang from Aerojet came by the Space Subcommittee on Capitol Hill (when I was working for Space) to talk about their new joint venture. They also brought along another gang of Russian senior engineers from NPO "Trud" in Samara, whom they were working with, including one very old and very senior engineer, Valentin Semyonovich Anisimov. His title was "Honoured Designer of the Russian Federation" (probably same title with "USSR" before that). Boy, I wish we gave our engineers recognition like that. Being the only Russian-speaking staffer on the Science committee at that time, I was asked to participate. It was just a lucky bonus that I happened to be a space history nut as well. In fact, looking over my diary for that day, I see that I was pulled out of Commercial Spaceport briefing taking place at 3 p.m. in Space's hearing room, #2317. (apologies to Jim Spellman, et al.) We used the Science Committee's big hearing room, Rayburn 2318. As I recall, Aerojet said they had access to about 40 engines, not 20. Their plan was to disassemble/test a few of them, but install most of them directly on American launchers. They figured by the time they burned through the inventory, they'd had learned enough to manufacture copies of the engines under license. As I recall, they mentioned the figure of $1 million for each existing engine. I didn't hear any figures about the royalty. The most fascinating part of the meeting was when Valentin Semyonovich described the failures of the N-1, how: - if one engine in the base ring failed, its opposite number would shut down; - they could lose as many as six engines during boost, and still make it to orbit; - how the cycling/update frequency of the control system turned out to be unfortunately close to the natural frequency about the yaw axis. He felt the main culprit, which doomed the program no matter what, was bad electronics. He had worked directly for Korolev at some point, and talked about what it was like to work for him. Everybody sat and listened, pretty much spellbound. I mean, this was a guy who had been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. It was cool to hop in occasionally and provide technical idioms for the translator. Russians always bring along these drop-dead gorgeous translators. As the group departed, one of the Russian officials going out the door shook his had and said to another one (in Russian) "All these Americans, speaking Russian now." Very hard for me to keep a straight face. Then I debriefed the other staffers who remained. I always felt Aerojet and the Russkiis had a credible business plan with lots of potential that played to both their strengths. Later on, I heard that Aerojet ran into all kinds of roadblocks, some from State and some from DoD. In my opinion, the stated concerns about "technology transfer" were total red herrings, (the tech was coming our way, fer Chrissake!) and really what was going on was that other players in the military industrial complex (guess who?) were trying to torpedo a competing project. -- Robert Kennedy, PE http://www.ultimax.com From JamesOberg@aol.com Mon Nov 13 22:39:30 2000 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:39:30 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Komorov and space urban legends The flight was a bitch -- but the thing that killed him was unforeseeable, because it was a flaw inside the parahute compartment, as we now know thanks to many contributors to this group. Stories of his wife talking to him, and Kosygin talking to him, are not worthy of belief, IMHO. I've talked with a guy ("Winslow Peck" was his pseudonym) who says he was assigned to a Turkish listening post AFTER the event and heard about it from buddies, but I don't believe his story because of other features of his claims (like the claim that the NSA monitored two guys getting blown up on the launch pad about 1965). I've also talked (mid-1990s) with Russians who were at Mission Control (Yevpatoriya), and we were drunk enough to tell each other the truth, but not too drunk that I forgot what they told me. "Devil machine, everything I touch doesn't work", is one radio message, but no tearful last wishes from loved ones or national leaders. From lklaes@bbn.com Mon Nov 13 22:57:48 2000 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:57:48 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Komorov and space urban legends How much would Komarov have verbally griped at Mission Control before he so annoyed his bosses that if he had survived the Soyuz 1 mission they would never allow him to fly in space again? Witness what happened on Apollo 7 after Wally Schirra told off Houston. Since Komarov obviously did not know he was going to die, at least while in orbit, how well would it have been for him career-wise to complain about spacecraft problems beyond the norm? Larry At 05:39 PM 11/13/2000 EST, JamesOberg@aol.com wrote: >The flight was a bitch -- but the thing that killed him was unforeseeable, >because it was a flaw inside the parahute compartment, as we now know thanks >to many contributors to this group. > >Stories of his wife talking to him, and Kosygin talking to him, are not >worthy of belief, IMHO. I've talked with a guy ("Winslow Peck" was his >pseudonym) who says he was assigned to a Turkish listening post AFTER the >event and heard about it from buddies, but I don't believe his story because >of other features of his claims (like the claim that the NSA monitored two >guys getting blown up on the launch pad about 1965). I've also talked >(mid-1990s) with Russians who were at Mission Control (Yevpatoriya), and we >were drunk enough to tell each other the truth, but not too drunk that I >forgot what they told me. "Devil machine, everything I touch doesn't work", >is one radio message, but no tearful last wishes from loved ones or national >leaders. >_______________________________________________ >FPSPACE mailing list >FPSPACE@friends-partners.org >http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From lklaes@bbn.com Tue Nov 14 01:07:35 2000 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:07:35 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Lunakhod 1 launch and Voyager 1 Saturn flyby anniversaries November 10: 30th Anniversary (1970) of the Luna 17 probe from the USSR carrying the first successful unmanned rover, Lunakhod 1. The Soviets placed the first robot rover on the lunar surface on November 17, 1970, calling it Lunakhod 1. The rover drove off a ramp from the Luna 17 probe and explored Mare Imbrium for almost one full year. Lunakhod 1 survived the bitter lunar nights with an onboard radioactive heat source. Five controllers on Earth operated each set of wheels of the rover. Though not widely known at the time, the Lunakhod series was part of the Soviet's manned lunar program. These rovers would serve in the construction of the first lunar bases. Sadly, only one more Lunakhod made it to Earth's moon and the third probe was left in a museum. There would not be another successful rover to an alien world after the Lunakhods until the Mars Pathfinder rover named Sojourner, which explored the Red Planet in late 1997. Relevant URLs: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/tmp/1970-095A.html http://vsm.host.ru/e_lunhod.htm http://www.friends-partners.org/~mwade/craft/lunaye8.htm http://titione75.free.fr/espace/engin/sonde/lunakhod.htm http://www.nasm.edu/ceps/etp/tools/tools_rover.html#lunk http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/sovietsp/lunokhod.html http://www.seds.org/pub/info/newsletters/ejasa/jasa9601.txt November 12 - 20th Anniversary (1980) of Voyager 1 Flyby of Saturn Though not the first probe to flyby the planet Saturn - that honor went to Pioneer 11 just over one year earlier - Voyager 1 took far more data and much sharper images of the beautiful ringed world than its predecessor. Among its accomplishments was a very close flyby of the moon Titan. Voyager 1 learned that Titan's thick orange atmosphere completely covered the moon's surface and was composed primarily of nitrogen rather than methane as previously thought. The probe also discovered that Titan was the second largest known moon in the Sol system; that honor now went to Jupiter's Ganymede. Saturn was Voyager 1's second and last planetary system encounter. In 1998 the probe exceeded the distance of Pioneer 10 and became the farthest human-made object in space. Relevant URLs: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/calendar/voyager1.html http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/voyager.html http://vraptor.jpl.nasa.gov/voyager/voyager.html http://www.friends-partners.org/~mwade/craft/voyager.htm http://www.btinternet.com/~consty/render/probes/voyager/voyager.htm Voyager 1 and 2 carry on their sides a golden record designed to relay information about humanity should any ETI find the probes in interstellar space. They may last along with the probes for over one billion years during their journeys through the Milky Way galaxy. For more information on the Voyager Interstellar Record: http://vraptor.jpl.nasa.gov/voyager/record.html http://www.re-lab.net/welcome/ http://www.cedmagic.com/featured/voyager/voyager-record.html Larry From vojko.kogej@guest.arnes.si Tue Nov 14 12:46:47 2000 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:46:47 +0100 From: Vojko Kogej vojko.kogej@guest.arnes.si Subject: [FPSPACE] Komorov and space urban legends He was not KomOrov. He was KomArov! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 11:39 PM Subject: [FPSPACE] Komorov and space urban legends > The flight was a bitch -- but the thing that killed him was unforeseeable, > because it was a flaw inside the parahute compartment, as we now know thanks > to many contributors to this group. > > Stories of his wife talking to him, and Kosygin talking to him, are not > worthy of belief, IMHO. I've talked with a guy ("Winslow Peck" was his > pseudonym) who says he was assigned to a Turkish listening post AFTER the > event and heard about it from buddies, but I don't believe his story because > of other features of his claims (like the claim that the NSA monitored two > guys getting blown up on the launch pad about 1965). I've also talked > (mid-1990s) with Russians who were at Mission Control (Yevpatoriya), and we > were drunk enough to tell each other the truth, but not too drunk that I > forgot what they told me. "Devil machine, everything I touch doesn't work", > is one radio message, but no tearful last wishes from loved ones or national > leaders. > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From robot@ultimax.com Tue Nov 14 16:49:20 2000 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:49:20 -0400 From: Robert G Kennedy III robot@ultimax.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: NK-33 more Digging into other notes, I see that Aerojet/NPO "Trud" had access to almost 200 (!) NK-33 type engines. In Oct 1994, the total inventory comprised 102 x NK-33, 18 x NK-43, 31 x NK-39, and 7 x NK-31. Since they had been mothballed since the early 1970s, presumably they are in much the same condition now. Refurbishment was reckoned to cost $2.6 million per unit, whilst the unit cost for eventual production Stateside was reckoned to be $4.2 million, one half to one third the cost of the nearest alternatives, the RS-27 and the MA-5A. Also, the engine did get here sooner, as I thought. Aerojet imported an NK-33 engine for test/qualification in October 1993. -- Robert Kennedy, PE http://www.ultimax.com From lklaes@bbn.com Tue Nov 14 18:29:45 2000 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:29:45 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Soviet Mars lander in Red Planet For those of you who do not want to know about the plot of the new film Red Planet, read no further, but note I will not be saying much in the way of spoilers. Apparently in the film a robot Soviet Mars lander plays a role in the plot. You can see images of it here: http://www.sciflicks.com/red_planet/images/red_planet_18.html And here: http://www.darkhorizons.com/news5/prod1.jpg Though I have not yet seen the film and I know only that it is called Kosmos, the lander certainly looks like something that the Soviets would have launched to Mars, based on their Luna landers. The Soviets did hope to send a probe to Mars that would return soil samples in the late 1970s, upstaging the US Viking missions. But that plan never came about and in fact may have been the cause of problems with Venera 11 and 12, delayed Luna 24, and kept Lunakhod 3 from ever leaving Earth. BTW, how far did such a Mars Sample Return craft get built? Are any parts and/or diagrams left? This Web site is a review on the science and astronomy in Red Planet and does contain extensive spoilers, but you will be warned well in advance: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/redplanet.html For those who have seen Red Planet, can you provide more information on this Soviet lander? Thanks. Larry From dave.woods@lmco.com Tue Nov 14 19:18:02 2000 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:18:02 -0500 From: Woods, Dave dave.woods@lmco.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Soviet Mars lander in Red Planet I did go see it. Totally unbelievable plot, annoying characters with bad egos. Yes, there is a robot in there and it looks like someone did look at some Lavochkin spacecraft designs for some construction details. You never get a good look at it though: too much shadow. Bottom line: if you have some time and money to waste, only then go see it. Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Klaes [SMTP:lklaes@bbn.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 1:30 PM > To: fpspace@solar.rtd.utk.edu > Subject: [FPSPACE] Soviet Mars lander in Red Planet > > For those of you who do not want to know about the > plot of the new film Red Planet, read no further, but > note I will not be saying much in the way of spoilers. > > Apparently in the film a robot Soviet Mars lander plays > a role in the plot. You can see images of it here: > > http://www.sciflicks.com/red_planet/images/red_planet_18.html > > And here: > > http://www.darkhorizons.com/news5/prod1.jpg > > Though I have not yet seen the film and I know only that > it is called Kosmos, the lander certainly looks like something > that the Soviets would have launched to Mars, based on their > Luna landers. > > For those who have seen Red Planet, can you provide more > information on this Soviet lander? Thanks. > > Larry From tcools@village.uunet.be Tue Nov 14 23:06:02 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:06:02 +0100 From: Tristan Cools tcools@village.uunet.be Subject: [FPSPACE] Lunakhod 1 launch and Voyager 1 Saturn flyby anniversaries At 20:07 13-11-00 -0500, you wrote: > > >Though not widely known at the time, the Lunakhod series >was part of the Soviet's manned lunar program. These >rovers would serve in the construction of the first >lunar bases. Sadly, only one more Lunakhod made it to >Earth's moon and the third probe was left in a museum. > In 1987, there was a space exhibition in Brussels, Belgium where I photographed a Lunokhod 2. See at: http://gallery.uunet.be/tcools/satimage/images/lunokh2.JPG Is this a real flight worthy model or just a mockup ? At Le Bourget Paris, France I took a photograph of a Lunokhod 1 model. I also don't know if this one was intended for launch or not.(no picture on my website yet). Greetings, Tristan Cools tcools@village.uunet.be Belgian Working Group Satellites(BWGS) Damse Vaart: 3.2478E/51.2277N - OBS place 1 Ryckevelde: 3.2856E/51.2045N - OBS place 2 Brugge: 3.2166E/51.2104N - OBS place 3(home) HTTP://gallery.uunet.be/tcools/satimage/index.htm From davida@cwo.com Tue Nov 14 23:52:02 2000 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:52:02 -0800 From: David Anderman davida@cwo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia may send new crew to Mir Tuesday November 14 12:51 PM ET Russia May Send New Crew to Mir http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20001114/wl/russia_mir_1.html It doesn't end, does it? Kind of like the election! From lklaes@bbn.com Wed Nov 15 13:45:53 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:45:53 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Lunakhod 1 launch and Voyager 1 Saturn flyby anniversaries My strong guess would be that the image you took was of Lunakhod 3, a real lunar rover that never made it to Luna due to problems from the Soviets attempt to build a Mars sample return probe in the late 1970s to upstage the US Viking mission. The same rover was on display at the Boston Museum of Science in 1990. Larry At 12:06 AM 11/15/2000 +0100, Tristan Cools wrote: >At 20:07 13-11-00 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>Though not widely known at the time, the Lunakhod series >>was part of the Soviet's manned lunar program. These >>rovers would serve in the construction of the first >>lunar bases. Sadly, only one more Lunakhod made it to >>Earth's moon and the third probe was left in a museum. >> > > >In 1987, there was a space exhibition in Brussels, Belgium where I >photographed a Lunokhod 2. > >See at: > >http://gallery.uunet.be/tcools/satimage/images/lunokh2.JPG > >Is this a real flight worthy model or just a mockup ? > >At Le Bourget Paris, France I took a photograph of a Lunokhod 1 model. I >also don't know if this one was intended for launch or not.(no picture on >my website yet). > >Greetings, > > >Tristan Cools tcools@village.uunet.be >Belgian Working Group Satellites(BWGS) > >Damse Vaart: 3.2478E/51.2277N - OBS place 1 >Ryckevelde: 3.2856E/51.2045N - OBS place 2 >Brugge: 3.2166E/51.2104N - OBS place 3(home) > >HTTP://gallery.uunet.be/tcools/satimage/index.htm > > >_______________________________________________ >FPSPACE mailing list >FPSPACE@friends-partners.org >http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace > From davida@cwo.com Wed Nov 15 15:05:37 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:05:37 -0800 From: David Anderman davida@cwo.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Lunakhod 3 I believe that this same vehicle is now on display at Lavochkin. The wheels still work. DWA At 08:45 AM 11/15/2000 -0500, Larry Klaes wrote: >My strong guess would be that the image you took was >of Lunakhod 3, a real lunar rover that never made it >to Luna due to problems from the Soviets attempt to >build a Mars sample return probe in the late 1970s >to upstage the US Viking mission. The same rover >was on display at the Boston Museum of Science in >1990. From lklaes@bbn.com Wed Nov 15 21:58:43 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:58:43 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Could 2000 SG344 be the Luna 16 upper rocket stage? POSSIBLE IDENTITY FOR 2000 SG344 >From Bruce Moomaw Subject: IS 2000 SG344 from Luna 16 Proton launch vehicle? I just did what I'm sure many of you have done yourselves; Run the current MPC elements for 2000 SG344 back in time to see when it made it's last current approach to earth. Going back from today to January 1, 1959 (before the Soviets launched the Lunik I probe, the first mission near the moon) 2000 SG344 passes near the earth only one time. Its last close approach was 12 September, 1970 at about 10 hrs UT. (My limited software gives a distance of 0.011480 AU - 1708224 km, at that time) That means for it to be a booster the mission it came from must have been launched around that time. Searching the NASA History website and linking to the 1970 information, I came on this page (http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/chrono3.html) and found only one mission which was launched on, you guessed it, September 12th, 1970. More information about Luna 16, which was a successful lunar sample return mission launched with a Proton booster, can be found here: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/tmp/1970-072A.html Richard Kowalski --- Looks like a good candidate to me. I'll add only that there were five S-4B stages from Apollo launches that ended up in solar orbit rather than hitting the Moon: those from Apollo 8 through 12. (Apollo 9 dropped off the Apollo itself in Earth orbit for a test flight before the S-4B restarted its engine to put itself into solar orbit.) Bruce Moomaw SATURN V STAGES IN HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT >From Luciano Anselmo Dear Benny, Just to clarify the confusion concerning the Saturn V third stages in heliocentric orbit, let me summarize the facts. Ten (10) third stages (S-IVB) of the Saturn V moon rocket reached the escape velocity, during 9 lunar missions (Apollo 8, 10-17) and one test mission in earth orbit (Apollo 9). In the latter case, the first test of the Lunar Module in earth orbit, the S-IVB was sent in heliocentric orbit, during an engineering test, without passing close to the moon. Concerning the 9 missions towards the moon, 4 S-IVBs were sent in heliocentric orbit after a close approach (C/A) with the moon, while the stages of the last 5 missions (Apollo 13-17) were intentionally impacted on our natural satellite to produce 2-hour long moonquakes, studied by the Apollo instruments already in place. The following tables summarize the S-IVBs status: 5 in heliocentric orbit (all launched in 1968-1969) and 5 disintegrated on the moon (all launched in 1970-1972). The first S-IVB stage to impact the moon was the only major scientific experiment successfully completed during the legendary Apollo 13 mission. S-IVBs IN HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT Mission Lunch Date Date of Lunar Lunar Radius (nm) Close Approach at C/A Apollo 8 21/12/1968 24/12/1968 1620 Apollo 9 03/03/1969 ---------- ---- Apollo 10 18/05/1969 21/05/1969 2619 Apollo 11 16/07/1969 19/07/1969 2763 Apollo 12 14/11/1969 18/11/1969 4020 S-IVBs IMPACTS ON THE MOON Mission Launch Date Lunar Impact Date Apollo 13 11/04/1970 15/04/1970 Apollo 14 31/01/1971 04/02/1971 Apollo 15 26/07/1971 30/07/1971 Apollo 16 16/04/1972 19/04/1972 Apollo 17 07/12/1972 10/12/1972 ________________________________________________________________________ Luciano Anselmo Phone: +39-050-315-2952 Spaceflight Dynamics Section Fax (G3): +39-050-313-8091 CNUCE Institute Fax (G4): +39-050-313-8092 CNR - Area della Ricerca di Pisa Via Alfieri 1 Loc. San Cataldo - Ghezzano E-Mail: Luciano.Anselmo@cnuce.cnr.it 56010 San Giuliano Terme CNUCE URL: http://www.cnuce.pi.cnr.it/ Pisa - Italy CNR Area URL: http://www.area.pi.cnr.it/ From svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Thu Nov 16 06:15:45 2000 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:15:45 +0100 From: Sven Grahn svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M1-4 picked up As a matter of routine, signals from Progress M1-4, launched at 0132 UT this morning, were picked up today in Stockholm, Sweden at 0607.20-0610.15 UT on 922.75 MHz and 166.0 MHz. Sven Grahn ---------------------------------------------------- Mr Sven Grahn | Kettering Group Rattviksvagen 44, S-192 71 Sollentuna, Sweden Tel: +46 8 7541904, svengrahn@wineasy.se http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn/ ---------------------------------------------------- From simon@japan.co.jp Thu Nov 16 11:21:55 2000 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:21:55 +1100 From: Simon Mansfield simon@japan.co.jp Subject: [FPSPACE] Mir To be Destroyed Feb 27: Official ------------ STATION NEWS Mir To be Destroyed Feb 27: Koptev http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mir-00zzj.html Moscow (AFP) Nov. 16, 2000 - Russia's ageing Mir space station, which has been in orbit for 14 years, will be destroyed on February 27-28 next year, Russian space agency chief, Yury Koptev said Thursday. In keeping with the troubled history of the 14-year-old orbiter, the announcement led to confusion, coming only minutes after the agency's top spokesman Sergei Gorbunov said safety concerns had forced the decision to be delayed. ------------------- TODAY'S QUICK LINKS November 16, 2000 - Astrium Gets Ariane 5 To Bus Microsats To Orbit http://www.spacedaily.com/news/astrium-00b.html - Suicide satellites head for space http://www.spacedaily.com/news/001116020340.s36jbhwb.html - Panamsat Turns Full Circle As Replacement For Oldest Satellite Launched http://www.spacedaily.com/news/panamsat-00l.html - Israeli Microsat Shipped To Svobodny For Topol Launch http://www.spacedaily.com/news/icbm-00m.html - Will Iridium Bankruptcy Buyout Be Deal Of the Century http://www.spacedaily.com/news/iridium-00e.html - China Eyes Manned Space Flight http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-00zzp.html - Expedition One Awaiting Progress http://www.spacedaily.com/news/iss-00zzza.html - Russia Cannot Predict Safe End To Mir As Reality Of De-Orbiting Looms http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mir-00zzj.html - Space cargo ship blasts off for the ISS http://www.spacedaily.com/news/001116021921.2m59scj5.html - Russia poised to confirm Mir's destruction http://www.spacedaily.com/news/001115143327.oh6utavz.html - Saturn Tilts Its Hat With Jupiter Close By http://www.spacedaily.com/news/skynightly-00a.html - Eyes to the skies, the Leonid meteor shower is back http://www.spacedaily.com/news/001115160008.hlrsxreo.html - US, EU far apart on role of forests in global warming http://www.spacedaily.com/news/001115164816.ykpnrlrf.html - Third World blasts rich countries at UN climate talks http://www.spacedaily.com/news/001115123819.fhx3sbdp.html From lklaes@bbn.com Thu Nov 16 13:38:35 2000 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:38:35 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] "Ways to the Moon?" in ESA Bulletin 103 The European Space Agency (ESA) Bulletin Number 103 for August, 2000 contains an article on the history of lunar exploration and the various plans for sending the proposed LunarSat probe to Earth's moon. The article is available online in PDF format at this URL: http://esapub.esrin.esa.it/bulletin/bullet103/biesbroek103.pdf There is also an article on the inflatable re-entry technology used to return the Fregat stage to Earth: http://esapub.esrin.esa.it/bulletin/bullet103/marraffa103.pdf Larry From cmvdberg@wxs.nl Thu Nov 16 20:16:44 2000 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:16:44 +0100 From: C.M. vd Berg cmvdberg@wxs.nl Subject: [FPSPACE] ISSCOM.003 Dit is een meerdelig bericht in MIME-indeling. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C05012.8B8ED140 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C05012.8B8ED140" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C05012.8B8ED140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C05012.8B8ED140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 
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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////AQD+/wMKAAD/////BgkCAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARhgAAABNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29y ZC1kb2N1bWVudAAKAAAATVNXb3JkRG9jABAAAABXb3JkLkRvY3VtZW50LjgA9DmycQAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA= ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C05012.8B8ED140-- From lklaes@bbn.com Fri Nov 17 03:53:38 2000 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:53:38 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Interview with ISS crew Shepherd and Krikalev TAKING UP RESIDENCE IN SPACE You think moving to another house is stressful? Try relocating to outer space. Check out our interview with the crew who moved into the International Space Station (ISS) earlier this month. http://www.popsci.com/scitech/news/001110.s.html From JamesOberg@aol.com Fri Nov 17 04:06:28 2000 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 23:06:28 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] ALTAY CONCERNED OVER ROCKET DAMAGE TO ENVIRONMENT, HUMAN HEALTH RUSSIA: ALTAY CONCERNED OVER DAMAGE TO ENVIRONMENT, HUMAN HEALTH MOSCOW ITAR-TASS IN ENGLISH 1622 GMT 15 NOV 00 [BY VALENTIN PAVLOV] BARNAUL, NOVEMBER 15 (ITAR-TASS) -- SCIENTISTS IN ALTAI, SOUTH SIBERIA, CONTINUE RESEARCH INTO THE INFLUENCE OF THE MISSILE AND SPACE ACTIVITIES ON HUMAN HEALTH AND THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE TERRITORY. THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROJECT DESIGNED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CHARITABLE PUBLIC ASSOCIATION "HEALTH AND THE ENVIRONMENT" IS BEING FUNDED BY THE U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT (USAID) WHICH HAS EARMARKED 60,000 DOLLARS FOR THE PURPOSE, ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT GALINA GUBINA TOLD ITAR-TASS ON WEDNESDAY. ACCORDING TO HER, THE USAID GRANT WILL PAY FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGIES FOR CONTINUED ANALYSES OF THE SAMPLES OF SOIL AND TREE BARK COLLECTED BY POST-GRADUATE STUDENTS AND ASSOCIATES OF THE BARNAUL INSTITUTE OF ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES DURING THEIR EXPEDITIONS TO THE BAIKONUR SPACE PORT AND THE SEMIPALATINSK NUCLEAR TEST RANGE. THE RESEARCHERS SAY THAT MUCH HARM TO HUMAN HEALTH AND THE ENVIRONMENT IS BEING DONE BY THE DISCARDED STAGES OF THE BOOSTER ROCKETS WHICH FALL IN ALTAI TERRITORY AFTER SPACE LAUNCHES IN BAIKONUR. ANOTHER CONCERN IS CAUSED BY THE DECOMMISSIONING OF THE INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILES WITH NUCLEAR CHARGES AND THE DESTRUCTION OF THE LAUNCH SILOS WHERE THE BALLISTIC MISSILES HAD BEEN ON SERVICE. HOWEVER, CHAIRMAN OF A SPECIAL COMMISSION IN CHARGE OF LOOKING INTO THE IMPACT OF THE PROCESSES ON HUMAN HEALTH, VICE- GOVERNOR OF ALTAI YAKOV SHOIKHET TOLD ITAR-TASS ON WEDNESDAY THAT NO HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HUMAN HEALTH HAVE BEEN TRACED. HIS STATEMENT WAS CONFIRMED BY THE SPECIALISTS OF THE TERRITORIAL SANITARY SERVICE WHO HAVE BEEN MONITORING THE ENVIRONMENT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE LIQUIDATION OF THE ALEISK DIVISION OF THE RUSSIAN STRATEGIC MISSILE FORCES. DEPUTY CHIEF SANITARY DOCTOR YEVGENY KHOROSHEV DECLARED THAT THE EXPLOSION OF THE FIRST TWO MISSILE SILOS IN NOVEMBER EXERCISED NO ADVERSE IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT. SAMPLES OF THE AIR, SOIL AND WATER WILL BE TAKEN AFTER THE EXPLOSION OF EACH OF THE 30 MISSILES WHICH ARE SLATED FOR ELIMINATION IN ALTAI. From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Fri Nov 17 05:19:27 2000 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 00:19:27 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Tito to ISS? Okay, I have reached the point where I don't believe anything anymore. But here is the latest. By the way, didn't NASA already make it clear that they didn't want any tourists while ISS was being assembled? So NASA is already on record concerning this subject. DDAY ************************************* http://www.space.com/news/spacestation/tito_to_iss_001116.html EXCLUSIVE: Dennis Tito Says It's 'Highly Likely' He Will Go to the ISS In April 2001 By Anthony Duignan-Cabrera The death knell may have tolled for the Mir space station, but for Dennis Tito, the man intent on becoming the world's first space tourist, it's music to his ears. "I believe the chance of me going to Mir is less than 1 percent," Tito said in an exclusive interview with SPACE.com, "but I think it is highly likely that I will end up flying to the International Space Station (ISS) on April 30." Tito, an investment manager from Santa Monica, California, had hoped to make a trip to the aging Russian spacecraft early next year. The former NASA engineer had already paid part of the $20 million price tag for the trip -- including almost $1 million that was earmarked for living and training in Russia's Star City. However the trip appeared to be canceled Thursday when Rosaviakosmos, the Russian space agency, announced that after almost 15 years of operation the station would be dumped into the Pacific Ocean on February 27, 2001. Speaking from his apartment in Star City, an upbeat Tito said he was happy with the agency's decision. From svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Fri Nov 17 06:14:11 2000 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:14:11 +0100 From: Sven Grahn svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress M1-4 again Transmissions on 166.0 MHz and 922.75 MHz again heard from Progress M1-4, 17 November 2000, at 0603.10-0606.30 UT. This was entirely consistent with the Space Command element set for rev. 10. Sven Grahn ---------------------------------------------------- Mr Sven Grahn | Kettering Group Rattviksvagen 44, S-192 71 Sollentuna, Sweden Tel: +46 8 7541904, svengrahn@wineasy.se http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn/ ---------------------------------------------------- From JamesOberg@aol.com Fri Nov 17 14:20:20 2000 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:20:20 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Russian Space Profits JimO: Koptev has often said that Russian participation in ISS is the "cost of doing business" to persuade Western governments not to interfere in these REAL profits. === Space industry to be major earner for Russia this year ITAR-TASS news agency, Moscow, in English 2007 gmt 15 Nov 00 Moscow, 15th November: Russia plans to earn about 800m dollars from space services in 2000, according to the Russian Space and Aircraft Agency, or Rosaviakosmos. The agency says revenue from space services grows steadily. In 1993, they earned the budget 40m dollars, in 1998 880m dollars. Rosaviakosmos experts say that Russia could have a package of commercial contracts for 2bn dollars with a focus on space launches, while foreign space agencies get up to 70 per cent of profits from communication and television broadcasting services. In 2000, Russia made 24 launches and put 35 satellites into orbit, including 20 foreign ones. It plans to launch five more satellites by the end of the year, including three foreign ones. International space projects to bring Russia 800m dollars in 2000 RIA news agency, Moscow, in Russian 2119 gmt 15 Nov 00 Moscow, 15th November: Russia can earn up to 2bn dollars a year on international cooperation in space, the Russian Space and Aircraft Agency told RIA on the eve of the cabinet session at which the implementation of Russia's international commitments in space will be considered. Russia made 40m dollars on international space cooperation in 1993, 880m dollars in 1998 and 620m dollars in 1999. This year the incomes are expected as 800m dollars, the agency said. Cooperation in this field creates about 100,000 jobs in Russia. The main stake is made on the ISS project. Russia will launch five cargo ships and two manned ships to the International Space Station in the near future. In 2000 Russia launched 24 boosters which took to space orbits 35 satellites including 20 foreign ones. Five more spacecraft including three foreign ones will be launched by the end of the year. From kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Fri Nov 17 17:50:00 2000 Date: 17 Nov 2000 19:50:00 +0200 From: Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Subject: [FPSPACE] wow ! It's Asif ! My copy of Asif Siddiqi's 1011 pages has just reached Cape Town - & note the roll call of honour in Acknowledgements to FPSPACE-ers: Phillip Clark, James Harford, Charles Vick, Mark Wade, David Woods etc. & equally amazing. The USG Printing Office had my credit card no. rejected - though I had at least five times the cost of Mr. Siddiqi in it. No doubt South African foreign exchange red tape. But instead of writing that they will wait until a bank draft reaches them before posting my order, the Superintendent of Documents clerk trusted me enough, even after the suspicious credit card rejection, to airmail straight away "Challenge to Apollo" to me, trusting the alien foreign customer to send on the US$98-75 by other means. Are we astronautics & astronomy fans such an honest lot? Are "colourful cosmonautics" characters such rareties that we can be trusted? Maybe the US Printing Office knows that we WANT Mr. Siddiqi & NASA to get their royalties, like a fan club :) :) From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Fri Nov 17 19:05:10 2000 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:05:10 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] wow ! It's Asif ! On Fri, 17 Nov 2000, Keith Gottschalk wrote: > My copy of Asif Siddiqi's 1011 pages has just reached Cape Town It weighs in at four and a half pounds (which equals about 6.3 decaliters in the metric system). > writing that they will wait until a bank draft reaches them before > posting my order, the Superintendent of Documents clerk trusted me > enough, even after the suspicious credit card rejection, to airmail > straight away "Challenge to Apollo" to me, trusting the alien foreign > customer to send on the US$98-75 by other means. No trust involved: The US has nukes. > cosmonautics" characters such rareties that we can be trusted? Maybe > the US Printing Office knows that we WANT Mr. Siddiqi & NASA to get > their royalties, like a fan club :) :) Royalties? Hah! You're joking! DDAY From kyger@spacelines.com Sat Nov 18 02:27:33 2000 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:27:33 -0500 From: Tim Kyger kyger@spacelines.com Subject: [FPSPACE] The N-1 Papers. This might be a leeeeetle off topic, but nevertheless I think that the following item -will- be of interest to the members of this listserv. If you point your browser at http://www.currell.net/models/ you will see available for free download a paper N-1 model. For all of you out there (like me) who -have- to have such a thing, and don't want to spend the $140-ish on the resin N-1 kit... From ras39@idt.net Sat Nov 18 02:39:23 2000 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:39:23 -0500 From: Randy Segal ras39@idt.net Subject: [FPSPACE] current crews Would someone please post the current cosmonaut teams that are in training as well as who currently makes up the current cosmonaut corp. (first and last names) Thank you. Randy Segal From svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Sat Nov 18 10:53:00 2000 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:53:00 +0100 From: Sven Grahn svengrahn@mail.wineasy.se Subject: [FPSPACE] Article about STS-1 radio receptions added to my Web site Dear Friends, I have added yet another historical piece to my web site: "STS-1 receptions in Florida made by Richard S Flagg" * Go to my Web site http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn * Click on "What's New"? * Select entry for 18 November, 2000 Cheers Sven ---------------------------------------------------- Mr Sven Grahn | Kettering Group Rattviksvagen 44, S-192 71 Sollentuna, Sweden Tel: +46 8 7541904, svengrahn@wineasy.se http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrahn/ ---------------------------------------------------- From steve@spaceflightnow.com Sat Nov 18 11:43:54 2000 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 11:43:54 +0000 From: Steven Young steve@spaceflightnow.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress docks manually There was high drama at the International Space Station last night when Progress M1-4 failed to dock in the first automatic and manual attempts. Gidzenko was eventually able to dock the Progress using the TORU system, but with the station out of radio contact it made for some tense moments. We have posted a full story and a QuickTime video of the Progress' failed automatic approach and the switch to a manual docking: http://spaceflightnow.com/ops/stage4a/001118p2dock/ The direct link to the video is: http://spaceflightnow.com/ops/stage4a/video/001118progress_qt.html This is an 883k QuickTime 4 file. From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Sat Nov 18 15:00:06 2000 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:00:06 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress docks manually On Sat, 18 Nov 2000, Steven Young wrote: > There was high drama at the International Space Station last night when > Progress M1-4 failed to dock in the first automatic and manual attempts. > Gidzenko was eventually able to dock the Progress using the TORU system, but > with the station out of radio contact it made for some tense moments. I had NASA TV on at the time (solely by accident--I was bored) and I wouldn't call it "high drama." It was mostly dull and played out over a blank TV screen for about an hour or so with nothing but droning commentary. This is one reason why I am so skeptical about plans to turn space into entertainment--much of it is very boring unless you really know what is going on and what the stakes are. > We have posted a full story and a QuickTime video of the Progress' failed > automatic approach and the switch to a manual docking: > > http://spaceflightnow.com/ops/stage4a/001118p2dock/ This is quite nice. I missed the initial failure of the automatic docking system. Spaceflight now has the video. The site's greatest strength is that it provides a lot of great videos of space operations. It is definitely worth going to spaceflightnow.com and checking out the various videos they have there. Neat stuff. DDAY From JamesOberg@aol.com Sat Nov 18 15:03:34 2000 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:03:34 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Progress docks manually This contingency validates the decision to wait for the launch of the crew so the TORU backup was available. This was the first automatic docking to the FGB nadir port, and there were some tricky KURS control "handovers" during the process that worried, justifiably, the planners. Their instincts -- and the skill of the flight crew -- were right on target. Well done to all!! From albonnici@vol.net.mt Sun Nov 19 06:58:28 2000 Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 07:58:28 +0100 From: Alex Michael Bonnici albonnici@vol.net.mt Subject: [FPSPACE] Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes --------------543F6CF3A1E0F7569FD3BCD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes Hello Gang, I found a number of interesting articles concerning the Search for Extraterrestrial Artefacts, in particular Bracewell/Von Neumann at the following web site: http://www.setv.org/ and also some interesting references concerning Dr. Paul LaViolette's theories on the possible artificiality of Pulsars, and there use as Interstellar Radio Beacons at the OPEN SETI web site: http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Opening.html in particular at the following sub page: The Forgotten Challenge: Pulsars http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/OSPulsars.html. Dr. Paul LaViolette also has his own web site at: http://www.etheric.com . Is anyone taking any of LaViolette's ideas seriously? To be quite frank The Welcome to the Sphinx Stargate and The Open SETI pages seem to combine pseudoscientific ideas with mainstream science. There is allot of reference given to the ideas recently popularize by Robert Bauval and Graham Hancock concerning lost civilizations, Atlantis, and Global Catastrophes. Does anyone here have any background information concerning Dr. Paul LaViolette? Alex Michael Bonnici httop://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8505 --------------543F6CF3A1E0F7569FD3BCD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes

Hello Gang,
            I found a number of interesting articles concerning the Search for Extraterrestrial Artefacts, in particular Bracewell/Von Neumann at the following web site: http://www.setv.org/  and also some interesting references concerning Dr. Paul LaViolette's theories on the possible  artificiality of Pulsars, and there use as Interstellar Radio Beacons at the OPEN SETI web site: http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Opening.html in particular at the following sub page:
The Forgotten Challenge: Pulsars http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/OSPulsars.html. Dr. Paul LaViolette also has his own web site at: http://www.etheric.com .

Is anyone taking any of LaViolette's ideas seriously? To be quite frank The Welcome to the Sphinx Stargate and The Open SETI pages seem to combine pseudoscientific ideas with mainstream science. There is allot of reference given to the ideas recently popularize by Robert Bauval and Graham Hancock concerning lost civilizations, Atlantis, and Global Catastrophes.

Does anyone here have any background information concerning Dr. Paul LaViolette?

Alex Michael Bonnici

httop://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8505 --------------543F6CF3A1E0F7569FD3BCD0-- From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Sun Nov 19 23:06:06 2000 Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:06:06 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Russian space science missions? From: http://www.flatoday.com/space/explore/stories/2000b/111900b.htm November 19, 2000 Russia sets priorities for unmanned space missions Copyright 2000, Interfax News Agency MOSCOW (Interfax) - There are two priorities for next year's unmanned space flights, namely the Spectrum-Roentgen-Gamma project and the Integral satellite, chief of the Russian Aerospace Agency Yuri Koptev said at a news conference at Government House on Thursday. The Spectrum-Roentgen-Gamma project has been developed for more than a decade by ten European countries, which have produced $300 million worth of scientific equipment, Koptev said. It will be a scientific observatory made up of satellites with which to study deep space. The telescopes that have been designed for the project are unique and "make it possible to look deep inside the universe," Koptev remarked. All of the equipment has been brought to Russia, which is working on a platform for the apparatuses and the launch into orbit, he said. Alas, financing for the work has been stopped and the search for funds is under way in negotiations with European countries, among them France, Germany and Austria. [snipped mention of Integral satellite and contract with ESA] ********************************* Does anybody know anything more on the Spectrum-Roentgen-Gamma satellite deal? Specifically, was the agreement that ESA would provide the instruments and Russia the spacecraft bus and launch vehicle? It just hit me that we hardly hear anything about Russian unmanned space science plans anymore. Is there anything else in the works? Planetary missions would appear to be too costly, but do the Russians have any plans for observatory missions? DDAY From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Fri Nov 17 18:13:01 2000 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 19:13:01 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] Tito to Alpha ? Hello all! So mr Tito believes he will actually return back from Alpha with the Soyuz spacecraft that is presently docked to the Station? Very hard to believe it! http://www.space.com/news/spacestation/tito_to_iss_001116.html Cheers Raoul Lannoy Nerviersstraat 19 2018 Antwerpen, Belgium Tel: 32.3.288.55.67 GSM:0486.89.24.61 51d12m25sN-4d25m21sE http://membres.tripod.fr/Ad_Astra/index-11.html http://users.pandora.be/raoul.lannoy/index.htm From JamesOberg@aol.com Mon Nov 20 14:41:34 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:41:34 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Tito to Alpha ? In a message dated 11/20/00 8:34:54 AM Central Standard Time, raoul.lannoy@pandora.be writes: << Very hard to believe it! >> Not so hard at all. Although NASA is unhappy at the idea, Russia retains full authority to choose the occupant of the third Soyuz seat. If NASA doesn't want an untrained individual aboard the Node/Lab, that's fine, too. All the best windows -- and the toilet -- are in the Russian segment. Apparently the extra seat on the second Soyuz (November 2001) is taken by a French spationaut. And the two swap-Soyuzes in 2002 will be carrying, by current plan, full expedition crews, so no extra seats there. That leaves the option of additional non-swap Soyuzes on dedicated up-down missions of several weeks duration, also. Yes, it could happen, and it's just as good a reason to send money to Russia, as is NASA's long string of "future services" deals to slip extra cash into Rosaviakosmos's pocket now and then when things get really desperate. From foxd@indiana.edu Mon Nov 20 15:16:53 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:16:53 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boyd Fox foxd@indiana.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: SETI public: Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes I looked at the pages and was not impressed. I would be interested in taking a look at Dr. Paul LaViolette's book though, just to see what his arguments are and if they look reasonable. I will say a lot of what I saw on his webpage was what I consider pseudo-science. The Open SETI pages argued that SETI was not scientific. They argue that no hypothesis are tested and no data is gathered. I guess they don't consider setting limits on the distribution of interstellar science as science. 73, Daniel Fox KF9ET On Sun, 19 Nov 2000, Alex Michael Bonnici wrote: > Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for > Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes > > Hello Gang, > I found a number of interesting articles concerning the > Search for Extraterrestrial Artefacts, in particular Bracewell/Von > Neumann at the following web site: http://www.setv.org/ and also some > interesting references concerning Dr. Paul LaViolette's theories on the > possible artificiality of Pulsars, and there use as Interstellar Radio > Beacons at the OPEN SETI web site: > http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Opening.html in particular at the > following sub page: > The Forgotten Challenge: Pulsars > http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/OSPulsars.html. Dr. Paul LaViolette also > has his own web site at: http://www.etheric.com . > > Is anyone taking any of LaViolette's ideas seriously? To be quite frank > The Welcome to the Sphinx Stargate and The Open SETI pages seem to > combine pseudoscientific ideas with mainstream science. There is allot > of reference given to the ideas recently popularize by Robert Bauval and > Graham Hancock concerning lost civilizations, Atlantis, and Global > Catastrophes. > > Does anyone here have any background information concerning Dr. Paul > LaViolette? > > Alex Michael Bonnici > > httop://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8505 > From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Mon Nov 20 15:47:08 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:47:08 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Tito to Alpha ? On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 JamesOberg@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/20/00 8:34:54 AM Central Standard Time, > raoul.lannoy@pandora.be writes: << Very hard to believe it! >> > > Not so hard at all. Although NASA is unhappy at the idea, Russia retains full > authority to choose the occupant of the third Soyuz seat. However, if you read the space.com article, they quote a Russian space official (Gorbunov?) saying that it will not happen. He also says that they do not feel that Tito has a "valid cosmonaut certificate," whatever that means. It is interesting to note that Energia and the Russian space agency seem to be at odds over this stuff--Energia wants to do a lot of things that the Russian space agency does not want them to do. DDAY From JamesOberg@aol.com Mon Nov 20 15:56:17 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:56:17 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Tito to Alpha ? In a message dated 11/20/00 9:41:21 AM Central Standard Time, wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu writes: << It is interesting to note that Energia and the Russian space agency seem to be at odds over this stuff--Energia wants to do a lot of things that the Russian space agency does not want them to do. >> Yes, this is the crux of the crisis. It is the lock -- and money is the key. From clj@emc.com Mon Nov 20 16:09:35 2000 Date: 20 Nov 2000 11:09:35 -0500 From: Chris Jones clj@emc.com Subject: [FPSPACE] "Ways to the Moon?" in ESA Bulletin 103 Larry Klaes writes: The European Space Agency (ESA) Bulletin Number 103 for August, 2000 contains an article on the history of lunar exploration and the various plans for sending the proposed LunarSat probe to Earth's moon. The article is available online in PDF format at this URL: http://esapub.esrin.esa.it/bulletin/bullet103/biesbroek103.pdf This is a very interesting article. A few nits which do not detract from the main thrust of the article: Luna 1 flew by the moon on 2 January 1959, not 1 February (obviously an internationalization issue: either 2/1 or 1/2 was decoded incorrectly). Despite the fact that the US DoD designations for both launchers are SL-3, the early Lunas were launched on a launcher with a somewhat different upper stage than the Vostok launcher has (different engines). Zond 5 didn't return to earth from lunar orbit, but after flying around the moon without entering lunar orbit (unless what is meant is returning from the vicinity of the moon's orbit). From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Mon Nov 20 17:16:30 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:16:30 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] Tito and Claudie to Alpha ? > >Apparently the extra seat on the second Soyuz (November 2001) is taken by a >French spationaut. And the two swap-Soyuzes in 2002 will be carrying, by >current plan, full expedition crews, so no extra seats there. There was a rumor Claudie Andre-Deshayes will soon go to Moscow for a flight. Claudie has trained to fly the Soyuz (only woman to do this) like Thomas Reiter. She did this when here husband Haignere was aboard Mir. So, could she be the "spacionaute"in question? (I still don't like the word "spationaute" or "spacionaute" and I'm sure they don't really like it either, themselves-a little too politicized, not romantic fo a cent:-). Raoul From albonnici@vol.net.mt Mon Nov 20 18:11:09 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:11:09 +0100 From: Alex Michael Bonnici albonnici@vol.net.mt Subject: [FPSPACE] On the Artificiality of Pulsars and Re: SETI public: Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes Hello Daniel, I agree with you. One of the problems I had with the OPEN SETI article was with regard to the distribution of Pulsars in the Milky Way Galaxy either. Another problem I had with the article in the OPEN SETI site was the statement that most Super Nova explosions take place towards the Galactic centre. Wouldn't most Super Nova explosions occur in the Galactic plane near the spiral arms where we find the highest concentration of interstellar gas, and, thus the most active sites for stellar birth and evolution (including stellar death). The reason I became interested in the possibility that Pulsar may be extraterrestrial artefacts was the October 2000 issue of Popular Mechanics mentioned this idea. But, again I must ask the question: Does anyone here have any background information concerning Dr. Paul LaViolette? Has he ever published any work in a peer reviewed journal? Alex Michael Bonnici Daniel Boyd Fox wrote: > I looked at the pages and was not impressed. I would be interested in > taking a look at Dr. Paul LaViolette's book though, just to see what his > arguments are and if they look reasonable. I will say a lot of what I saw > on his webpage was what I consider pseudo-science. > > The Open SETI pages argued that SETI was not scientific. They argue that > no hypothesis are tested and no data is gathered. I guess they don't > consider setting limits on the distribution of interstellar science as > science. > > 73, > Daniel Fox > KF9ET > > On Sun, 19 Nov 2000, Alex Michael Bonnici wrote: > > > Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for > > Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes > > > > Hello Gang, > > I found a number of interesting articles concerning the > > Search for Extraterrestrial Artefacts, in particular Bracewell/Von > > Neumann at the following web site: http://www.setv.org/ and also some > > interesting references concerning Dr. Paul LaViolette's theories on the > > possible artificiality of Pulsars, and there use as Interstellar Radio > > Beacons at the OPEN SETI web site: > > http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Opening.html in particular at the > > following sub page: > > The Forgotten Challenge: Pulsars > > http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/OSPulsars.html. Dr. Paul LaViolette also > > has his own web site at: http://www.etheric.com . > > > > Is anyone taking any of LaViolette's ideas seriously? To be quite frank > > The Welcome to the Sphinx Stargate and The Open SETI pages seem to > > combine pseudoscientific ideas with mainstream science. There is allot > > of reference given to the ideas recently popularize by Robert Bauval and > > Graham Hancock concerning lost civilizations, Atlantis, and Global > > Catastrophes. > > > > Does anyone here have any background information concerning Dr. Paul > > LaViolette? > > > > Alex Michael Bonnici > > > > httop://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8505 > > > > _______________________________________________ > FPSPACE mailing list > FPSPACE@friends-partners.org > http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace From ydutil@ma2.upc.es Mon Nov 20 19:51:25 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:51:25 +0000 From: Yvan Dutil ydutil@ma2.upc.es Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: On the Artificiality of Pulsars and Re: SETI public: Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes Alex Michael Bonnici wrote: > Hello Daniel, > I agree with you. One of the problems I had with the OPEN SETI > article was with regard to the distribution of Pulsars in the Milky Way Galaxy > either. Another problem I had with the article in the OPEN SETI site was the > statement that most Super Nova explosions take place towards the Galactic > centre. Wouldn't most Super Nova explosions occur in the Galactic plane near > the spiral arms where we find the highest concentration of interstellar gas, > and, thus the most active sites for stellar birth and evolution (including > stellar death). The reason I became interested in the possibility that Pulsar > may be extraterrestrial artefacts was the October 2000 issue of Popular > Mechanics mentioned this idea. > > But, again I must ask the question: Does anyone here have any background > information concerning Dr. Paul LaViolette? Has he ever published any work in > a peer reviewed journal? > > Alex Michael Bonnici Laviolette is a "soft" crackpot it has published in peer review journal but he support the theory of a static universe with a continuous mater formation. No exactly a main stream scientist. His expertise is mostly on the effect of supernova of the terrestrial environnement. Most of its citation are about how wrong his is in his assumptions. He has a Ph.D. but it is not the prototype of a world class scientist. Yvan Dutil From foxd@indiana.edu Mon Nov 20 18:58:22 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:58:22 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boyd Fox foxd@indiana.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: On the Artificiality of Pulsars and Re: SETI public: Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes Hi Alex, I did a quick search and found a few publications which I listed below. I noticed during my search he has been picked up by the UFO crowd and he is a firm believer in Cold Fusion. I'm not quite sure what to make of him and his ideas until I get a chance to read his book. 73, Daniel Fox KF9ET LaViolette. P. A. "Galactic Explosions, Cosmic Dust Invasions, and Climatic Change." Ph.D. dissertation, Portland State University, Portland Oregon, August 1983. LaViolette, P. A. "The terminal Pleistocene cosmic event: Evidence of recent incursion of nebular material into the Solar System." Eos 64 (1983):286. American Geophysical Union paper, Baltimore, Maryland. LaViolette, P. A. "Cosmic ray volleys from the Galactic Center and their recent impact on the Earth environment." Earth, Moon, and Planets 37 (1987): 241. LaViolette, P. A. Earth Under Fire. Alexandria, VA: Starlane Publications, 1997. LaViolette, P. A. "Elevated concentrations of cosmic dust in Wisconsin stage polar ice." Meteoritics 18 (1983):336. Meteoritical Society paper, Mainz, Germany. LaViolette, P. A. "Evidence of high cosmic dust concentrations in Late Pleistocene polar ice. Meteoritics 20 (1985): 545 LaViolette, P. A. "Evidence in Antarctic Ice of a Prolonged Enhanced Solar Wind Outflow at the End of the Last Ice Age." (2000) submitted for publication. LaViolette, P. A. The Talk of the Galaxy. Alexandria, VA: Starlane Publications, 2000, p. 55. From john.b.charles1@jsc.nasa.gov Mon Nov 20 20:06:03 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:06:03 -0600 From: CHARLES, JOHN B. (JSC-SF2) john.b.charles1@jsc.nasa.gov Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: SETI public: Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes Slightly OT, but does anyone remember Duncan Lunan and his hypothesis that an extraterrestrial probe in orbit around the Sun communicated briefly by delayed-echoing of Earthly radio transmissions? I read his article in Analog many years ago. Seems like he has made an occasional return to public print with the same or modified ideas. Question: How might we recognize an alien artifact? Maybe one of the Earth-crossing asteroids? Maybe 2000SG34 (if that is the right number?) isn't an Apollo S-4B or even Luna-16's Blok-D (there--back on topic!) but a visitor. John Charles Houston, Texas From JamesOberg@aol.com Mon Nov 20 20:29:32 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:29:32 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: SETI public: Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV):... In a message dated 11/20/00 2:08:26 PM Central Standard Time, john.b.charles1@jsc.nasa.gov writes: << Slightly OT, but does anyone remember Duncan Lunan and his hypothesis that an extraterrestrial probe in orbit around the Sun communicated briefly by delayed-echoing of Earthly radio transmissions? I read his article in Analog many years ago. Seems like he has made an occasional return to public print with the same or modified ideas. >> I think Duncan realized that the LDEs -- the long-delayed echoes -- were a natural ionospheric phenomena -- you can probably do a search on "LDE" and get all the reports you can stand -- and that his 'star map' was an over-interpretation of noise. From dfowler@gwgate.lib.iastate.edu Mon Nov 20 17:39:51 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:39:51 -0600 From: David Fowler dfowler@gwgate.lib.iastate.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Tito to Alpha ? David C. Fowler Electronic Resources Coordinator Iowa State University 204 Parks Library Ames, IA 50011 dfowler@iastate.edu work (515) 294-0422 fax (515) 294-5525 >>> 11/20/00 08:41AM >>> Apparently the extra seat on the second Soyuz (November 2001) is taken by a French spationaut. And the two swap-Soyuzes in 2002 will be carrying, by current plan, full expedition crews, so no extra seats there. Is this correct, Jim? I know expedition 7 (Malenchenko/Moshchenko/Lu) is a Soyuz launch in late '02, but the last I heard, Expedition 6 (Bowersox/Thomas/Budarin) was still set for STS-114. Dave From i-cosmos@mtu-net.ru Tue Nov 21 06:39:54 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:39:54 +0300 From: Igor Lissov i-cosmos@mtu-net.ru Subject: [FPSPACE] QuickBird 1 launch failed Hi all, > QuickBird 1 should have been launched from Plesetsk Area 132 by > Kosmos-3M launch vehicle November 20 at 22:00 UTC. > Intended orbit inclination is 66 deg. The launch failed. No confirmation was received of objects at intended orbit. OIG has the following elset: QUICKBIRD 1 Decayed: 2000/11/21 1 26617U 00074A 00325.94892426 -.00001935 61190-5 00000+0 0 11 2 26617 65.7786 26.7900 0395802 357.8580 2.0863 15.73746337 05 This corresponds to orbit of 84x616 kilometers. Obviously, second stage failure to circularize orbit, or large error in velocity vector pointing. Launch has been delayed one hour due to problems at a U.S. ground station. Igor Marinin, Igor Lissov Novosti Kosmonavtiki Moscow, Russia From brharvey@iol.ie Tue Nov 21 15:44:20 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 07:44:20 -0800 From: Brian Harvey brharvey@iol.ie Subject: [FPSPACE] Spektr Roentgen Gamma Spektr Roentgen Gamma Dwayne Allen Day asked about the Spektr Roentgen Gamma project. My understanding is that Russia approached the European Space Agency in advance of the October 2000 ESA Council meeting asking for €20m in exchange for ESA's full access to the scientific data arising. However, I don't have the text of the actual ESA decision at the end of the day. In advance of the meeting, each country was asked individually for support for the proposal. I know that the Irish government representative was asked to support the Russian proposal. On other Russian scientific missions, I know that Koronas F is still in the pipeline (the first Koronas was in 1994). I have heard a date of 2001. Brian Harvey From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Tue Nov 21 15:45:18 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:45:18 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] QuickBird 1 launch failed On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Igor Lissov wrote: > > QuickBird 1 should have been launched from Plesetsk Area 132 by > > Kosmos-3M launch vehicle November 20 at 22:00 UTC. > > Intended orbit inclination is 66 deg. > > The launch failed. No confirmation was received of objects at intended > orbit. OIG has the following elset: Does this mean that the rocket failed in flight or that it was never launched? If this is a launch failure and the bird was destroyed, that would be the latest in a number of disasters for the US commercial remote sensing industry. Lockheed lost its first Ikonos bird on an Athena out of Vandenberg, and I think an earlier imaging satellite was lost on a Russian launch vehicle (START?). DDAY From John.Nolan@aero.org Tue Nov 21 16:19:36 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:19:36 -0800 From: Nolan John R Aerospace John.Nolan@aero.org Subject: [FPSPACE] QuickBird 1 launch failed The first attempt by EarthWatch was also a failure several years ago when the EarlyBird-1 satellite failed to communicate with the ground after it's successful launch from Russia. -----Original Message----- From: Dwayne Allen Day [mailto:wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 7:42 AM To: John.R.Nolan@aero.org Cc: fpspace@friends-partners.org Subject: Re: [FPSPACE] QuickBird 1 launch failed On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Igor Lissov wrote: > > QuickBird 1 should have been launched from Plesetsk Area 132 by > > Kosmos-3M launch vehicle November 20 at 22:00 UTC. > > Intended orbit inclination is 66 deg. > > The launch failed. No confirmation was received of objects at intended > orbit. OIG has the following elset: Does this mean that the rocket failed in flight or that it was never launched? If this is a launch failure and the bird was destroyed, that would be the latest in a number of disasters for the US commercial remote sensing industry. Lockheed lost its first Ikonos bird on an Athena out of Vandenberg, and I think an earlier imaging satellite was lost on a Russian launch vehicle (START?). DDAY _______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list FPSPACE@friends-partners.org http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace From clj@emc.com Tue Nov 21 16:46:07 2000 Date: 21 Nov 2000 11:46:07 -0500 From: Chris Jones clj@emc.com Subject: [FPSPACE] QuickBird 1 launch failed Dwayne Allen Day writes: On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Igor Lissov wrote: > > QuickBird 1 should have been launched from Plesetsk Area 132 by > > Kosmos-3M launch vehicle November 20 at 22:00 UTC. > > Intended orbit inclination is 66 deg. > > The launch failed. No confirmation was received of objects at intended > orbit. OIG has the following elset: Does this mean that the rocket failed in flight or that it was never launched? The first. An element set implies that there was an object launched to be tracked. With that perigee, the satellite couldn't survive many orbits (I'd guess one). The second stage is reported to have shut down early. From rcb1@lccc.edu Tue Nov 21 21:50:04 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:50:04 -0500 From: Ron Blue rcb1@lccc.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: SETI public: Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation (SETV): A Scientific Search for Visitation From Extraterrestrial Probes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C053DB.18F18AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dr. Paul LaViolette's theories on the possible artificiality of = Pulsars, and there use as Interstellar Radio Beacons=20 >>>>>>> I had suggested recently that Dr. Ron Spencer's work on Spectral = Associative Memories might be useful for SETI. It performs extremely well in a noise environment with very = low power. An interesting effect is an occasional high output with no = signal in that output. I have a link to his paper at my site. Ron Blue http://turn.to.ai http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/ronaldblue/index.html Correlational Opponent Processing=20 Essentials of Learning in Conscious AI and Biological Systems=20 Quantum Coherence Has Been Demonstrated In The Brain=20 Little Ricci's First Days: Robotic Developmental Psychology =20 Pictures of JCIS 2000 and Corey (Ricci's little sister)=20 JCIS 2000 conference and observations of Corey's Behavior=20 Comparison between Karl Pribram's "Holographic Brain Theory" and more conventional models of neuronal computation=20 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$R. Spencer, Bipolar Spectral Associative Memories = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C053DB.18F18AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dr. Paul LaViolette's theories on the possible  = artificiality of=20 Pulsars, and there use as Interstellar Radio Beacons
>>>>>>>
I had suggested recently that Dr. Ron Spencer's work on = Spectral=20 Associative Memories might be useful
for SETI.  It performs extremely well in a noise = environment=20 with very low power.  An interesting effect is an = occasional high=20 output with no signal in that output.  I have a link to his = paper at=20 my site.
Ron Blue
http://turn.to.ai
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/ronaldblue/index.htmlCorrelational=20 Opponent Processing
Essentials of Learning in Conscious AI and = Biological=20 Systems
Quantum Coherence Has Been Demonstrated In The Brain =
Little=20 Ricci's First Days: Robotic Developmental Psychology 
Pictures = of JCIS=20 2000 and Corey (Ricci's little sister)
JCIS 2000 conference and = observations=20 of Corey's Behavior
Comparison between Karl Pribram's "Holographic = Brain=20 Theory"
and more conventional models of neuronal computation=20
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$R. Spencer, Bipolar Spectral Associative Memories=20 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 
------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C053DB.18F18AC0-- From leebrandoncremer@hotmail.com Tue Nov 21 22:05:36 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:05:36 From: lee brandon-cremer leebrandoncremer@hotmail.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: Claudie Raoul, I think you'll find that Claudie actually flew on Soyuz-TM24 in August of 1996. On another note: Is Jim Oberg correct in regards to the 2002 ISS crews flying on Soyuz? Can someone reiterate the known list of ISS crews and their transport, for confirmation. Lee Brandon-Cremer _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Wed Nov 22 10:25:07 2000 Date: 22 Nov 2000 12:25:07 +0200 From: Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Subject: [FPSPACE] spatio-astro-cosmo-taiko- ? >>(I still don't like the word "spationaute" or "spacionaute" and I'm sure >they don't really like it either, themselves-a little too politicized, not >romantic fo a cent:-). > >Raoul In fact, was it not a French-speaking Brazilian pioneering aviator, who was the 1st to invent the word "astronaut", as well as inventing the joystick? From JamesOberg@aol.com Wed Nov 22 16:23:44 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:23:44 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Chinese Space Policy "White Paper" --part1_a1.d6b9e92.274d4d10_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got the following (attached) summaries and fragments of the new Chinese space policy from an AP reporter in Beijing, from Hsinhua News Agency. It seems to be a very serious and significant document. Jim Oberg --part1_a1.d6b9e92.274d4d10_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; name="chi-space-policy.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chi-space-policy.txt" Subj:=09 space white paper Date:=0911/22/00 3:08:47 AM Central Standard Time From:=09mfackler@ap.org (Martin Fackler) Thanks for chatting late on a Tuesday night. Unfortunately, I'm having t= roubles downloading the entire white paper from Xinhua. (Problems of this so= rt with Xinhua are not too uncommon, actually.) Anyway, here's the eight-pag= e summary of the white paper that Xinhua also ran. Hope you find this usefu= l. Regards, Martin Fackler, AP, Beijing > =14 China's Space Activities (White Paper Summary)=20 > =14 BEIJING, November 22 (Xinhua) -- The Information Office of the State= Council published Wednesday a white paper, titled "China's Space Activities= ," which gives a brief introduction to the aims and principles, present situ= ation, future development and international cooperation concerning China's s= pace activities. > =14 The white paper says that after the People's Republic of China was f= ounded in 1949, China carried out space activities on its own, and succeeded= in developing and launching its first man-made satellite in 1970. > =14 China has made eye-catching achievements, and now ranks among the wo= rld's most advanced countries in some important fields of space technology.=20= In the 21st century, China will continue to promote the development of its s= pace program in the light of its national situation, and make due contributi= ons to the peaceful use of outer space, and to the civilization and progress= of mankind. > =14 According to the white paper, the Chinese government has all along r= egarded the space industry as an integral part of the state 's comprehensive= development strategy, and upheld that the exploration and utilization of ou= ter space should be for peaceful purposes and benefit the whole of mankind. > =14 The aims of China's space activities are: to explore outer space, an= d learn more about the cosmos and the Earth; to utilize outer space for peac= eful purposes, promote mankind's civilization and social progress, and benef= it the whole of mankind; and to meet the growing demands of economic constru= ction, national security, science and technology development and social prog= ress, protect China's national interests and build up the comprehensive nati= onal strength. > =14 China carries out its space activities in accordance with the follow= ing principles: > =14 -- Adhering to the principle of long-term, stable and sustainable de= velopment and making the development of space activities cater to and serve=20= the state's comprehensive development strategy; > =14 -- Upholding the principle of independence, self-reliance and self-r= enovation and actively promoting international exchanges and cooperation; > =14 -- Selecting a limited number of targets and making breakthroughs in= key areas according to the national situation and strength; > =14 -- Enhancing the social and economic returns of space activities and= paying attention to the motivation of technological progress; and > =14 -- Sticking to integrated planning, combination of long-term develop= ment and short-term development, combination of spacecraft and ground equipm= ent, and coordinated development. > =14 Regarding the development of the country's space industry, the white= paper says that since its birth in 1956, China's space program has gone thr= ough several important stages of development: arduous pioneering, overall de= velopment in all related fields, reform and revitalization, and internationa= l cooperation. > =14 According to the policy paper, China's space industry "has reached a= considerable scale and level." A comprehensive system of research, design,=20= production and testing has been formed. Space centers capable of launching s= atellites of various types and manned spacecraft as well as a TT&C (Telemetr= y Tracking and Command) network consisting of ground stations across the cou= ntry and tracking and telemetry ships are in place. > =14 Furthermore, a number of satellite application systems have been est= ablished and have yielded remarkable social and economic benefits. A space s= cience research system of a fairly high level has been set up and many innov= ative achievements have been made. And a contingent of qualified space scien= tists and technicians has come to the fore.=20 > =14 In the process of carrying out space activities independently, China= has opened a road of development unique to its national situation and score= d a series of important achievements with relatively small input and within=20= a relatively short span of time, the white paper says. > =14 Currently, China ranks among the most advanced countries in the worl= d in many important technological fields, such as satellite recovery, multi-= satellite launch with a single rocket, rockets with cryogenic fuel, strap-on= rockets, launch of geo-stationary satellites and TT&C. Significant achievem= ents have also been gained in the development and application of remote-sens= ing satellites and telecommunications satellites, and in manned spacecraft t= esting and space micro-gravity experiments. > =14 It recalls that China's first man-made satellite, the " Dongfanghong= -I" was successfully developed and launched on April 24, 1970, making China=20= the fifth country in the world with such capability. By October 2000, China=20= had developed and launched 47 satellites of various types, with a flight suc= cess rate of over 90 percent. > =14 China is the third country in the world to have mastered the technol= ogy of satellite recovery, with the success rate reaching the advanced inter= national level, and the 5th country capable of developing and launching geo-= stationary telecommunications satellites independently. The major technologi= cal index of China's meteorological and earth resource satellites has reache= d the international level of the early 1990s. > =14 China has independently developed the "Long-March" rocket group, con= taining 12 types of launching vehicles capable of launching satellites to ne= ar-earth, geo-stationary and sun-synchronous orbits. > =14 Since 1985, when the Chinese government announced putting the " Long= -March" rockets into the international commercial launching market, China ha= s launched 27 foreign-made satellites into space, thus acquiring a share of=20= the international commercial launching market. Up to now, the "Long-March" r= ockets have accomplished 63 launches, and made 21 consecutive successful fli= ghts from October 1996 to October 2000.=20 > =14 China has set up three launching sites -- in Jiuquan, Xichang and Ta= iyuan, and meanwhile, the country has also established an integrated TT&C ne= twork comprising TT&C ground stations and ships, which has successfully acco= mplished TT&C missions for near-earth orbit and geo-stationary orbit satelli= tes, and experimental spacecraft. This network has acquired the capability o= f sharing TT& C resources with international network, and its technology has= reached the advanced world level. > =14 The white paper says that China initiated its manned spaceflight pro= gram in 1992 and its first unmanned experimental spacecraft -- "Shenzhou"--=20= was successfully launched and recovered November 20-21, 1999. > =14 China attaches importance to developing all kinds of application sat= ellites and satellite application technology, and has made great progress in= satellite remote-sensing, satellite telecom and satellite navigation. Remot= e-sensing and telecommunications satellites account for about 71 percent of=20= the total number of satellites developed and launched by China. These satell= ites have been widely utilized in all aspects of economy, science and techno= logy, culture, and national defense, and yielded remarkable social and econo= mic returns.=20 > =14 The white paper goes on to say that with the establishment and impro= vement of China's socialist market economic mechanism, the state guides the=20= development of space activities through macro- control, makes overall plans=20= for the development of space technology, space application and space science= , promotes the R&D and system integration of important space technologies an= d the application of space science and technology in the fields of economy,=20= science and technology, culture, and national defense. The state has also ca= rried out reforms in the space science and technology industry to achieve su= stainable development of the space industry. > =14 The state has strengthened legislation work and policy management, e= nacted laws and regulations and promulgated industrial policies for the spac= e industry to ensure orderly and standardized development of space activitie= s. Research institutions, industrial enterprises, commercial enterprises and= institutions of higher learning are encouraged to make full use of their ad= vantages and participate in space activities under the guidance of the state= 's space policies, according to the policy paper. > =14 It makes it clear that the China National Space Administration (CNSA= ) is China's governmental organization responsible for the management of sat= ellites for civilian use and inter-governmental space cooperation with other= countries. > =14 The white paper maps out a blueprint for the future development of C= hina's space industry. The 21st century will witness vigorous development of= space activities across the world, it says, disclosing that China is drafti= ng a space development strategy and plans oriented to the 21st century accor= ding to the actual demands and long-term target of national development to s= pur the growth of the space industry.=20 > =14 The white paper lists the short-term development targets for the nex= t decade as follows: > =14 -- To build up an earth observation system for long-term stable oper= ation; > =14 -- To set up an independently operated satellite broadcasting and te= lecommunications system; > =14 -- To establish an independent satellite navigation and positioning=20= system; > =14 -- To upgrade the overall level and capacity of China's launch vehic= les; > =14 -- To realize manned spaceflight and establish an initially complete= R&D and testing system for manned space projects; > =14 -- To establish a coordinated and complete national satellite remote= -sensing application system; > =14 -- To develop space science, explore outer space, and carry out pre-= study for outer space exploration centering on the exploration of the moon. > =14 The long-term development targets for the next 20 years or more are=20= as follows: > =14 -- To achieve industrialization and marketization of space technolog= y and space applications; > =14 -- To establish a multi-function and multi-orbit space infrastructur= e composed of various satellite systems and set up a satellite ground applic= ation system; > =14 -- To establish China's own manned spaceflight system; and > =14 -- To obtain a more important place in the world in the field of spa= ce science with more achievements and carry out explorations and studies of=20= outer space. =20 > =14 Regarding China's international cooperation in the space industry, t= he white paper says that China persistently supports activities involving th= e peaceful use of outer space, and maintains that international space cooper= ation shall be promoted and strengthened on the basis of equality and mutual= benefit, mutual complementarity and common development. > =14 The Chinese government holds that international space cooperation sh= ould follow the fundamental principles listed in the "Deceleration on Intern= ational Cooperation on Exploring and Utilizing Outer Space for the Benefits=20= and Interests of All Countries, Especially in Consideration of Developing Co= untries' Demands," which was approved by the 51st General Assembly of the Un= ited Nations in 1996. > =14 According to the policy paper, China adheres to the following princi= ples while carrying out international space cooperation: > =14 - The aim of international space cooperation is to peacefully develo= p and use space resources for the benefit of all mankind. > =14 - International space cooperation should be carried out on the basis= of equality and mutual benefit, mutual complementarity and common developme= nt, and the generally accepted principles of international law. > =14 - The priority aim of international space cooperation is to simultan= eously increase the capability of space development of all countries, partic= ularly the developing countries, and enable all countries to enjoy the benef= its of space technology. > =14 - Necessary measures should be adopted to protect the space environm= ent and space resources in the course of international space cooperation. > =14 - The function of the United Nations Office of Outer Space Affairs (= OOSA) should be consolidated and the outer space application programs of the= United Nations should be backed up. =20 > =14 According to the white paper, China's participation in international= space cooperation started in the mid-1970s. During the last two decades or=20= more, China has joined bilateral, regional, multilateral and international s= pace cooperation in different forms, such as commercial launching service, w= hich have yielded extensive achievements. Since 1985, China has established=20= long- term cooperative relations with a dozen countries. > =14 China attaches great importance to space cooperation in the Asia-Pac= ific region, the white paper says. > =14 Regarding multilateral cooperation, China dispatched, in June 1980,=20= an observer delegation to the 23rd Meeting of UN COPUOS for the first time,=20= and on November 3, 1980, China became a member country of the committee. Sin= ce then, China has participated in all the meetings of UN COPUOS and the ann= ual meetings held by its Science, Technology and Law Sub-committee. In 1983=20= and 1988, China acceded to the "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activitie= s of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon an= d Other Celestial Bodies," "Agreement on the Rescue of Astronauts, the Retur= n of Astronauts and the Return of Objects Launched into Outer Space," "Conve= ntion on International Liability for Damage Caused by Space Objects," and "C= onvention on Registration of Objects Launched into Outer Space," and has str= ictly performed its responsibilities and obligations. China also supports a= nd has participated in the UN space applications program. =20 Subj:=09 more white paper Date:=0911/22/00 3:11:20 AM Central Standard Time From:=09mfackler@ap.org (Martin Fackler) Here's a snippet from the complete white paper that I was able to grab. It's= the part focusing on China's goals in the coming decade. Martin > =14 China Drafts Space Development Strategy for 21st Century (1) > =14 BEIJING, November 22 (Xinhua) -- China is drafting a space developme= nt strategy and plans oriented to the 21st century according to the actual d= emands and long-term target of national development to spur the growth of th= e space industry. > =14 This is disclosed in a white paper, entitled "China's Space Activiti= es", published by the Information Office of the State Council Wednesday. > =14 The white paper lists China's short-term development targets for the= space industry in the next decade as follows: > =14 - To build up an earth observation system for long-term stable opera= tion. The meteorological satellites, resource satellites, oceanic satellites= and disaster monitoring satellites can develop into an earth observation sy= stem for long-term stable operation to conduct stereoscopic observation and=20= dynamic monitoring of the land, atmosphere, and oceanic environments of the=20= country, the peripheral regions and even the whole globe; > =14 - To set up an independently operated satellite broadcasting and tel= ecommunications system. Positive support will be given to the development of= commercial broadcasting and telecommunications satellites such as geo-stati= onary telecom satellites and TV live broadcasting satellites with long opera= ting life, high reliability and large capacity, so as to form China's satell= ite telecom industry; > =14 - To establish an independent satellite navigation and positioning s= ystem. This will be achieved by setting up a navigation and positioning sate= llite group step by step and developing a relevant application system, which= will eventually bring into being China's satellite navigation and positioni= ng industry; > =14 - To upgrade the overall level and capacity of China's launch vehicl= es. This will be achieved by improving the performance and reliability of th= e "Long-March" group, developing the next generation of launch vehicles with= non-toxic, non-polluting, high- performance and low-cost specifications, fo= rming a new group of launch vehicles and strengthening the capability of pro= viding international commercial launching services;=20 > =14 - To realize manned spaceflight and establish an initially complete=20= R&D and testing system for manned space projects; > =14 - To establish a coordinated and complete national satellite remote-= sensing application system by building various related ground application sy= stems through overall planning, setting up a remote-sensing data receiving,=20= processing and distributing system covering the whole country for data shari= ng, and forming a fairly complete application system in major application fi= elds of satellite remote-sensing; and > =14 - To develop space science and explore outer space by developing a s= cientific research and technological experiment satellite group of the next=20= generation, strengthening studies of space micro-gravity, space material sci= ence, space life science, space environment and space astronomy, and carryin= g out pre-study for outer space exploration centering on the exploration of=20= the moon. > =14 Meanwhile, the white paper defines China's long-term development tar= gets for its space industry in the next 20 years or more as follows: > =14 -- To achieve industrialization and marketization of space technolog= y and space applications. The exploration and utilization of space resources= shall meet a wide range of demands of economic construction, state security= , science and technology development and social progress, and contribute to=20= the strengthening of the comprehensive national strength; > =14 - To establish a multi-function and multi-orbit space infrastructure= composed of various satellite systems and set up a satellite ground applica= tion system that harmonizes spacecraft and ground equipment to form an integ= rated ground-space network system in full, constant and long-term operation=20= in accordance with the overall planning of the state; > =14 - To establish China's own manned spaceflight system and carry out m= anned spaceflight scientific research and technological experiments on a cer= tain scale; and > =14 - To obtain a more important place in the world in the field of spac= e science with more achievements and carry out explorations and studies of o= uter space. =20 From:=09mfackler@ap.org (Martin Fackler) To:=09jamesoberg@aol.com Here's the first seven-pages of the full white paper. You can see on the bot= tom the error message I keep getting that prevents me from getting the rest. BC-China-Space-White-Paper-Full-Text-1 > =14 China's Space Activities (Full Text) (1) > =14 BEIJING, November 22 (Xinhua) -- The Information Office of the State= Council Wednesday published a white paper titled "China's Space Activities.= " Following is the full text of the white paper: > =14 Introduction > =14 The scope of mankind's activities has experienced expansion from lan= d to ocean, from ocean to atmosphere, and from atmosphere to outer space. Sp= ace technology, which emerged in the 1950s, opened up a new era of man's exp= loration of outer space. Having developed rapidly for about half a century,=20= mankind's space activities have scored remarkable achievements, greatly prom= oted the development of social productivity and progress, and produced profo= und and far-reaching effects. Space technology has turned out to be one fiel= d of high technology that exerts the most profound influence on modern socie= ty. The continuous development and application of space technology has becom= e an important endeavor in the modernization drive of countries all over the= world. > =14 The Chinese nation created a glorious civilization in the early stag= e of mankind's history. The gunpowder "rocket" invented by ancient Chinese w= as the embryo of modern space rockets. After the People's Republic of China=20= was founded in 1949, China carried out space activities on its own, and succ= eeded in developing and launching its first man-made satellite in 1970. Chin= a has made eye- catching achievements, and now ranks among the world's most=20= advanced countries in some important fields of space technology. In the 21st= century, China will continue to promote the development of its space indust= ry in the light of its national situation, and make due contributions to the= peaceful use of outer space, and to the civilization and progress of mankin= d. > =14 At the turn of the century, it is of significance to give a brief in= troduction to the aims and principles, present situation, future development= and international cooperation concerning China' s space activities.=20 > I. Aims and Principles > =14 The Chinese government has all along regarded the space industry as=20= an integral part of the state's comprehensive development strategy, and uphe= ld that the exploration and utilization of outer space should be for peacefu= l purposes and benefit the whole of mankind. As a developing country, China'= s fundamental tasks are developing its economy and continuously pushing forw= ard its modernization drive. > =14 The aims and principles of China's space activities are determined b= y their important status and function in protecting China's national interes= ts and implementing the state's development strategy. The aims of China's sp= ace activities are: to explore outer space, and learn more about the cosmos=20= and the Earth; to utilize outer space for peaceful purposes, promote mankind= 's civilization and social progress, and benefit the whole of mankind; and t= o meet the growing demands of economic construction, national security, scie= nce and technology development and social progress, protect China's national= interests and build up the comprehensive national strength. > =14 China carries out its space activities in accordance with the follow= ing principles: > =14 - Adhering to the principle of long-term, stable and sustainable dev= elopment and making the development of space activities cater to and serve t= he state's comprehensive development strategy. The Chinese government attach= es great importance to the significant role of space activities in implement= ing the strategy of revitalizing the country with science and education and=20= that of sustainable development, as well as in economic construction, nation= al security, science and technology development and social progress. The dev= elopment of space activities is encouraged and supported by the government a= s an integral part of the state's comprehensive development strategy.=20 > - Upholding the principle of independence, self-reliance and self-renov= ation and actively promoting international exchanges and cooperation. China=20= shall rely on its own strength to tackle key problems and make breakthroughs= in space technology. Meanwhile, due attention shall be given to internation= al cooperation and exchanges in the field of space technology, and self-reno= vation in space technology shall be combined organically with technology imp= ort on the principles of mutual benefit and reciprocity. > =14 - Selecting a limited number of targets and making breakthroughs in=20= key areas according to the national situation and strength. China carries ou= t its space activities for the purpose of satisfying the fundamental demands= of its modernization drive. A limited number of projects that are of vital=20= significance to the national economy and social development are selected so=20= as to concentrate strength to tackle major difficulties and achieve breakthr= oughs in key fields. > =14 - Enhancing the social and economic returns of space activities and=20= paying attention to the motivation of technological progress. China strives=20= to explore a more economical and efficient development road for its space ac= tivities so as to achieve the integration of technological advance and econo= mic rationality. > =14 - Sticking to integrated planning, combination of long-term developm= ent and short-term development, combination of spacecraft and ground equipme= nt, and coordinated development. The Chinese government develops space techn= ology, application and science through integrated planning and rational arra= ngement in the aim of promoting the comprehensive and coordinated developmen= t of China's space activities.=20 > II. Present Situation > =14 > =14 Since its birth in 1956, China's space program has gone through seve= ral important stages of development: arduous pioneering, overall development= in all related fields, reform and revitalization, and international coopera= tion. Now it has reached a considerable scale and level. A comprehensive sys= tem of research, design, production and testing has been formed. Space cente= rs capable of launching satellites of various types and manned spacecraft as= well as a TT&C (Telemetry Tracking and Command) network consisting of groun= d stations across the country and tracking and telemetry ships are in place.= A number of satellite application systems have been established and have yi= elded remarkable social and economic benefits. A space science research syst= em of a fairly high level has been set up and many innovative achievements h= ave been made. And a contingent of qualified space scientists and technician= s has come to the fore. > =14 China's space industry was developed on the basis of weak infrastruc= ture industries and a relatively backward scientific and technological level= , under special national and historical conditions. In the process of carryi= ng out space activities independently, China has opened a road of developmen= t unique to its national situation and scored a series of important achievem= ents with relatively small input and within a relatively short span of time.= Now, China ranks among the most advanced countries in the world in many imp= ortant technological fields, such as satellite recovery, multi-satellite lau= nch with a single rocket, rockets with cryogenic fuel, strap-on rockets, lau= nch of geo-stationary satellites and TT&C. Significant achievements have als= o been gained in the development and application of remote- sensing satellit= es and telecommunications satellites, and in manned spacecraft testing and s= pace micro-gravity experiments. ( more)=20 > =14 3. Launching Sites: China has set up three launching sites - in Jiuq= uan, Xichang and Taiyuan - which have successfully accomplished various kind= s of test flights of launching vehicles and launches of a variety of satelli= tes and experimental spacecraft. China's spacecraft launching sites are capa= ble of making both domestic satellite launches and international commercial=20= launches, and carrying out international space cooperation in other fields. > =14 4. TT&C: China has established an integrated TT&C network comprising= TT&C ground stations and ships, which has successfully accomplished TT&C mi= ssions for near-earth orbit and geo-stationary orbit satellites, and experim= ental spacecraft. This network has acquired the capability of sharing TT&C r= esources with international network, and its technology has reached the inte= rnational advanced level. > =14 5. Manned Spaceflight: Initiating its manned spaceflight program in=20= 1992, China has developed a manned spacecraft and high- reliability launchin= g vehicle, carried out engineering studies in aerospace medicine and aerospa= ce life science, selected reserve astronauts and developed equipment for aer= ospace remote-sensing and aerospace scientific experiments. China's first un= manned experimental spacecraft - "Shenzhou"- was successfully launched and r= ecovered November 20-21, 1999, symbolizing a breakthrough in the basic techn= ologies of manned spacecraft and a significant step forward in the field of=20= manned spaceflight.=20 > =14 Space Technology > =14 1. Man-made Satellites: China's first man-made satellite, the " Dong= fanghong-I" was successfully developed and launched on April 24, 1970, makin= g China the fifth country in the world with such capability. By October 2000= , China had developed and launched 47 satellites of various types, with a fl= ight success rate of over 90% . Altogether, four satellite series have been=20= initially developed in China, namely, recoverable remote-sensing satellites,= "DFH ( Dongfanghong)" telecommunications satellites, "FY (Fengyun)" meteoro= logical satellites and "SJ (Shijian)" scientific research and technological=20= experiment satellites. The "ZY (Ziyuan)" earth resource satellite series wil= l come into being soon. China is the 3rd country in the world to have master= ed the technology of satellite recovery, with the success rate reaching the=20= advanced international level, and the 5th country capable of developing and=20= launching geo-stationary telecommunications satellites independently. The ma= jor technological index of China's meteorological and earth resource satelli= tes has reached the international level of the early 1990s. The six telecomm= unications, earth resources and meteorological satellites developed and laun= ched by China in the past few years are in stable operation, and have genera= ted remarkable social and economic returns. > =14 2. Launching Vehicles: China has independently developed the " Long-= March" rocket group, containing 12 types of launching vehicles capable of la= unching satellites to near-earth, geo- stationary and sun-synchronous orbits= . The largest launching capacity of the "Long-March" rockets has reached 9,2= 00 kg for near- earth orbit, and 5,100 kg for geo-stationary transfer orbit,= able to basically meet the demands of customers of all kinds. Since 1985, w= hen the Chinese government announced putting the "Long- March" rockets into=20= the international commercial launching market, China has launched 27 foreign= -made satellites into space, thus acquiring a share of the international com= mercial launching market. Up to now, the "Long-March" rockets have accomplis= hed 63 launches, and made 21 consecutive successful flights from October 199= 6 to October 2000.=20 > Space Applications > =14 China attaches importance to developing all kinds of application sat= ellites and satellite application technology, and has made great progress in= satellite remote-sensing, satellite telecom and satellite navigation. Remot= e-sensing and telecommunications satellites account for about 71% of the tot= al number of satellites developed and launched by China. These satellites ha= ve been widely utilized in all aspects of economy, science and technology, c= ulture, and national defense, and yielded remarkable social and economic ret= urns. Related departments of the state have also made active use of foreign=20= application satellites for application technology studies, with satisfactory= results. > =14 1. Satellite Remote-Sensing: China began to use domestic and foreign= remote-sensing satellites in the early 1970s, and eventually carried out st= udies, development and promotion of satellite remote-sensing application tec= hnology, which has been widely applied in meteorology, mining, surveying, ag= riculture, forestry, water conservancy, oceanography, seismology and urban p= lannin=20 ITEM TERMINATED - EXCESS LENGTH - MORE > --part1_a1.d6b9e92.274d4d10_boundary-- From M.Wade@iaea.org Wed Nov 22 16:59:39 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:59:39 +0100 From: M.Wade@iaea.org M.Wade@iaea.org Subject: [FPSPACE] China Space White Paper > http://www.spacechina.com/space-news/whitebook-english.htm > From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Wed Nov 22 17:20:12 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:20:12 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] spatio-astro-cosmo-taiko- ? > In fact, was it not a French-speaking Brazilian pioneering aviator, who was the 1st to invent the word "astronaut", as well as inventing the joystick? You mean Alberto Santos-Dumont invented the word "astronaute"? I've often wondered where the word originated from and who invented it. But I'd like to find some hints about it! Raoul From dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu Wed Nov 22 17:35:44 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:35:44 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Barkley dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] China to End Missile Part Exports For American companies, the immediate effect will be the unfreezing of licence applications to launch American satellites on Chinese rockets. -NY Times *********************** China to Stop Selling A-Arms Delivery Systems By JANE PERLEZ NY Times WASHINGTON, Nov. 21 The Clinton administration and China said today that China had pledged to stop selling missile parts or the equipment needed for missile production to countries developing nuclear weapons. In exchange, Washington agreed to waive economic sanctions for past sales of such matriel to Iran and Pakistan, the State Department said. This will allow American companies to apply again for licenses to launch satellites on Chinese rockets. The agreement would help bring China into line with international standards restricting missile-related exports, officials said. They said that step, like membership in the World Trade Organization, would push China to be more responsible. But in announcing the accord, which President Clinton and President Jiang Zemin reviewed at their meeting last week in Brunei, officials cautioned that China's pledges have yet to be enacted. "This looks good on paper," said one senior official involved in the talks. "What we'll have to watch is implementation," a job for the next administration. The most promising aspect of the accord, officials said, was China's commitment to adopt an export-control list under which Beijing would require Chinese companies to get licenses to export "equipment, materials and technology that can be directly used in missiles, as well as missile-related dual-use items." But the Chinese failed to specify what penalty companies would suffer if they exported without licenses. It was also unclear how thoroughly the export-control list would be in compliance with the Missile Technology Control Regime. That agreement, which restricts sales of specific missiles and missile parts, was signed by 32 countries, but not China. China's continued export of missile production facilities to Pakistan has been of particular concern in Washington since the nuclear tests by Pakistan and India in 1998. The issue complicated White House efforts to win Senate passage of a bill this year granting China permanent normal trade relations, especially after American intelligence agencies reported that China exported a few dozen long-range missiles to Pakistan in 1992 and sent missile production facilities in the 1990's. Among the items China sent to Pakistan after the 1998 nuclear tests were specialty steels and guidance systems. The announcement today, in effect, confirms those Chinese exports, which under American law required sanctions. The administration said today that while technically it was imposing the sanctions, it was waiving them in view of the new pledges. For American companies, the immediate effect will be the unfreezing of licence applications to launch American satellites on Chinese rockets. Applications were frozen in February because of concerns that Chinese aerospace companies were exporting missile-related materials to Pakistan and Iran. Many American companies, from cellular telephone networks to international television conglomerates, are waiting in line for satellites to be sent into orbit, and China has expressed eagerness to offer low-cost services. Two American companies at the forefront of satellite launches in China, Hughes Space and Communications International and Loral Space and Communications, will not be affected by the waiving of sanctions, officials said, because they are under investigation to determine whether they improperly advised the Chinese on rocket design in the mid-1990's without obtaining licenses. The companies have denied any wrongdoing, but officials said they would not be allowed to apply for licenses until the cases are resolved. From barensky@orbireport.com Wed Nov 22 17:39:09 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:39:09 +0100 From: Stefan Barensky barensky@orbireport.com Subject: [FPSPACE] spatio-astro-cosmo-taiko- ? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------169BBF89B9C7B48CF549D2DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am afraid there is a little confusion here. Both the joystick ("manche-à-balai" in French) and the word "Astronautique" were invented by famous French aviation and rocket pioneer Robert Esnault-Pelterie (1881-1957). Raoul Lannoy wrote: > > In fact, was it not a French-speaking Brazilian pioneering aviator, who > was the 1st to invent the word "astronaut", as well as inventing the > joystick? > > You mean Alberto Santos-Dumont invented the word "astronaute"? > I've often wondered where the word originated from and who invented it. > But I'd like to find some hints about it! > > Raoul Stefan Barensky - Space Editor http://www.space-launcher.com --------------169BBF89B9C7B48CF549D2DB Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="barensky.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Stefan Barensky Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="barensky.vcf" begin:vcard n:Barensky;Stefan tel;cell:+33 (0) 610 487 126 tel;fax:+33 (0) 467 580 042 tel;work:+33 (0) 467 580 037 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.orbireport.com/Barensky.html org:Takyon International Press Agency adr:;;BP 2148;Montpellier Cedex 1;;F-34027;France version:2.1 email;internet:barensky@orbireport.com title:Space Editor x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Stefan Barensky end:vcard --------------169BBF89B9C7B48CF549D2DB-- From JamesOberg@aol.com Wed Nov 22 17:43:55 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:43:55 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] spatio-astro-cosmo-taiko- ? I had always thought that a British flight officer named Joyce had invented the Joyce Stick, but is that only a legend? From lklaes@bbn.com Wed Nov 22 19:06:28 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:06:28 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Ukraine conference on defending Earth against celestial impacts Held by the Space Shield Foundation: http://www.snezhinsk.ru/spe2000/eng/spe2000/abstracts.htm From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Wed Nov 22 19:33:10 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:33:10 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] China to End Missile Part Exports On Wed, 22 Nov 2000, Dan Barkley wrote: > For American companies, the immediate effect will be the unfreezing of > licence applications to launch American satellites on Chinese rockets. Is this true? I thought that the licensing problem was essentially dictated by statute. In other words, Clinton cannot simply open this up on his own, since there is a law regulating it. It is also worth noting that Congress objected to this stuff because of concern that technology was going TO CHINA, not because of proliferation to other countries. The Republicans were worried that American technology was going into Chinese ICBMs targeted at the US. DDAY From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Wed Nov 22 20:18:04 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:18:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] China Space White Paper On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 M.Wade@iaea.org wrote: > > http://www.spacechina.com/space-news/whitebook-english.htm This is a general bland government document that nevertheless serves as a good indicator of what the Chinese are interested in. (White Papers are usually only broad outlines.) However, if you read it carefully, you will note what it does not say: -no indication of when China plans on achieving manned spaceflight -no mention of a space station -no mention of lunar exploration (manned or otherwise) Clearly their goals are space applications and commercialization, with prestige lower on the list (pretty sensible, if you ask me). DDAY ************* Here is an except from the section on long-term developments: The long-term development targets (for the next 20 years or more) are as follows: -To achieve industrialization and marketization of space technology and space applications. The exploration and utilization of space resources shall meet a wide range of demands of economic construction, state security, science and technology development and social progress, and contribute to the strengthening of the comprehensive national strength; - To establish a multi-function and multi-orbit space infrastructure composed of various satellite systems and set up a satellite ground application system that harmonizes spacecraft and ground equipment to form an integrated ground-space network system in full, constant and long-term operation in accordance with the overall planning of the state; - To establish China's own manned spaceflight system and carry out manned spaceflight scientific research and technological experiments on a certain scale; and - To obtain a more important place in the world in the field of space science with more achievements and carry out explorations and studies of outer space. From raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Wed Nov 22 21:26:45 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:26:45 +0100 From: Raoul Lannoy raoul.lannoy@pandora.be Subject: [FPSPACE] Origins of "Astronaut" Hello guys, Now look at this: http://www.coolfrenchcomics.com/navigateurs.htm Years ago, I remember reading the book (same cover, in fact, with the 6 eyed creature: Les Navigateurs de l'Infini). So, the Belgian Science-Fiction author Joseph-Henri Boex (called Rosny Aine) was the first to use the word "Astronautique" and "les Astronautes" in 1925! Regards Raoul Lannoy Nerviersstraat 19 2018 Antwerpen, Belgium Tel: 32.3.288.55.67 GSM:0486.89.24.61 51d12m25sN-4d25m21sE http://membres.tripod.fr/Ad_Astra/index-11.html http://users.pandora.be/raoul.lannoy/index.htm From dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu Thu Nov 23 16:42:28 2000 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:42:28 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Barkley dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] China to End Missile Part Exports > On Wed, 22 Nov 2000, Dan Barkley wrote: > > > For American companies, the immediate effect will be the unfreezing of > > licence applications to launch American satellites on Chinese rockets. > > Is this true? I thought that the licensing problem was essentially > dictated by statute. In other words, Clinton cannot simply open this up > on his own, since there is a law regulating it. I understand that the State Dept. has the last say on certifying license applications for satellite exports. According to the Times (London)The State Department announced yesterday it was lifting sanctions on Chinese military technology companies and would begin to consider approving licences for the mainland to launch US satellites. > It is also worth noting that Congress objected to this stuff because of > concern that technology was going TO CHINA, not because of proliferation > to other countries. The Republicans were worried that American technology > was going into Chinese ICBMs targeted at the US. Yeah that's the arguement. But I think this announcement is more geared toward thwarting US interest in NMD and arms sales to Taiwan. I think there is an implicit 'quid quo pro'. In 1992, when President Bush decided to sell F16 fighters to Taiwan, Beijing responded by supplying Pakistan with nuclear-capable M11 missiles (Times/ London). Dan Barkley From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Thu Nov 23 20:20:44 2000 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 15:20:44 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] China to End Missile Part Exports On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Dan Barkley wrote: > I understand that the State Dept. has the last say on certifying license > applications for satellite exports. According to the Times (London)The > State Department announced yesterday it was lifting sanctions on > Chinese military technology companies and would begin to consider > approving licences for the mainland to launch US satellites. As I have since learned, there is wiggle room in this, so that State does have final authority, but Congress determines how much leash to give it. (More below.) > Yeah that's the arguement. But I think this announcement is more geared > toward thwarting US interest in NMD and arms sales to Taiwan. I think > there is an implicit 'quid quo pro'. In 1992, when President Bush decided A couple of points (well, three anyway): -China has made this pledge twice before, in 1992 and 1994, and broke it both times. The Clinton administration thus looks a little like Charlie Brown, believing that Lucy will not pull the football away this time-promise. It is doubtful that a Republican Congress will be so trusting. -Russia has just announced that it is pulling out of a promise to stop selling military equipment to Iran. (To be precise, they announced this back in October, but the administration kept it silent, apparently because Gore had claimed that this Gore-Chernomyrdin agreement was one of the high points of his Vice Presidency and did not want it to fall apart embarrassingly before the November elections. This agreement also included various space provisions as well.) The collapse of the Russian agreement is likely to have an impact on the Chinese promise, because the critics can say "See? We told you so!" -if the US was not otherwise preoccupied now, this stuff would be much bigger news, particularly in Congress. It will become bigger news once we solve our little election problem and get people in office. What does this have to do with space? Potentially a lot. Next year there may be a lot of effort to a) halt satellite licenses to China, and b) impose sanctions on Russia. Could the ISS relationship suffer? Possibly. Do not think that space is immune; if the US-Russian relationship deteriorates, space cooperation could suffer as well. DDAY From dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu Fri Nov 24 01:14:19 2000 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:14:19 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Barkley dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] China to End Missile Part Exports > > A couple of points (well, three anyway): > > -China has made this pledge twice before, in 1992 and 1994, and broke it > both times. The Clinton administration thus looks a little like Charlie > Brown, believing that Lucy will not pull the football away this > time-promise. It is doubtful that a Republican Congress will be so > trusting. Don't Republicans currently have a majority in both houses? I think their margin slipped after the elections. At any rate, I never thought that the sanctions would be lifted after the licensing authority was shifted from Commerce to State. But it was! I bet the industry (read: Hughes and Loral) did some serious lobbying on Capitol Hill (Democrat$ and Republican$) and behihd the scenes. > > -Russia has just announced that it is pulling out of a promise to stop > selling military equipment to Iran. (To be precise, they announced this > back in October, but the administration kept it silent, apparently because > Gore had claimed that this Gore-Chernomyrdin agreement was one of the high > points of his Vice Presidency and did not want it to fall apart > embarrassingly before the November elections. This agreement also included > various space provisions as well.) The collapse of the Russian agreement > is likely to have an impact on the Chinese promise, because the critics > can say "See? We told you so!" Alternatively one could argue: 'Iran buying missile from Russian instead of China makes the latter's promise not to sell missile to Iran somewhat credible.' Perhaps the Russian announcment partly motivated China to 'bargain away' missile exports? In the case of Russia, I suspect that money (earning hard currency) was real the motivating factor. In the case of China, I suspect that advanced arms sales or extending the NMD to Taiwan would bring about abrrogation. Sure China earns money from arms exports, but it earns a lot more from trade. > > What does this have to do with space? Potentially a lot. Next year there > may be a lot of effort to a) halt satellite licenses to China, and > b) impose sanctions on Russia. Could the ISS relationship > suffer? Possibly. Do not think that space is immune; if the US-Russian > relationship deteriorates, space cooperation could suffer as well. From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Fri Nov 24 13:48:44 2000 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:48:44 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] China to End Missile Part Exports On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Dan Barkley wrote: > Alternatively one could argue: > 'Iran buying missile from Russian instead of China makes the latter's > promise not to sell missile to Iran somewhat credible.' > Perhaps the Russian announcment partly motivated China to 'bargain away' > missile exports? The two are not connected that way. The Russian pledge does not involve missiles. > In the case of Russia, I suspect that money (earning hard currency) was > real the motivating factor. Yes. But the question is, now that Russia has done this, how does the US respond? And does the US response affect space cooperation? DDAY From JamesOberg@aol.com Fri Nov 24 18:18:26 2000 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:18:26 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Reuters: Russian parliament criticises ditching Mir orbiter Russian parliament criticises ditching Mir orbiter 11:55 11-24-00 MOSCOW, Nov 24 (Reuters) - Russia's State Duma lower house of parliament criticised government plans on Friday to discard the ageing Mir space station early next year. Deputies overwhelmingly supported a motion condemning the "premature end to operations aboard the Mir orbital station, and ditching it is a poorly thought out and unjustified step." Space officials announced last week that the government had decided to dump 15-year-old Mir into the Pacific Ocean off Australia late in February due to lack of cash and viable investors. It was not immediately clear whether the Duma's statement would influence the government's decision. It said some $60 million needed to keep Mir in orbit next year could be found in the federal budget. Lawmakers say the station provides jobs for 100,000 scientists and engineers. During its eventful lifetime Mir has helped Soviet and Russian cosmonauts set a string of space endurance records that have been the nation's pride -- and the envy of its better-funded U.S. rivals. But in recent years the station has lost its lustre due to a series of mishaps, including a near catastrophic collision with a cargo craft, an on-board fire and computer failures which sent it spinning aimlessly through space. U.S. space officials have pushed Russia to dump Mir, saying it drained sparce resources that would be better spent on Russia's role in the International Space Station. From i-cosmos@mtu-net.ru Fri Nov 24 21:36:38 2000 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:36:38 +0300 From: Igor Lissov i-cosmos@mtu-net.ru Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: Claudie Hi, > On another note: Is Jim Oberg correct in regards to the 2002 ISS crews > flying on Soyuz? > > Can someone reiterate the known list of ISS crews and their transport, for > confirmation. ISS-1 (2R) Shepherd Gidzenko Krikalyov Bowersox Dezhurov Tyurin Soyuz TM-31 (#205) 31.10.2000 STS-102 (5á.1) 02.2001 ISS-2 (5A.1) Usachov Voss Helms Onufriyenko Walz Bursch STS-102 (5á.1) 15.02.2001 STS-105 (7á.1) 06.2001 RVC-1 (2S) Afanasyev Kuzhel'naya Tokarev Kozeyev Soyuz TM (#206) 30.04.2001 Soyuz TM-31 (#205) 05.2001 ISS-3 (7á.1) Culbertson Dezhurov Tyurin Korzun Treshchov Whitson STS-105 (7á.1) 21.06.2001 STS-108 (UF1) 10.2001 ISS-4 (UF1) Onufriyenko Walz Bursch Padalka Robinson Fincke STS-108 (UF1) 11.10.2001 STS-111 (UF2) 02.2002 RVC-2 (3S) Tokarev Kozeyev not named yet Soyuz TMA (#211) 10.2001 Soyuz TM (#206) 11.2001 ISS-5 (UF2) Korzun Treshchov Whitson Kaleri Kondratyev Stephanyshyn-Piper STS-111 (UF2) 21.02.2002 STS-114 (ULF1) 07.2002 ISS-6 (ULF1) Bowersox D.Thomas Budarin Noriega Pettit Kotov STS-114 (ULF1) 27.06.2002 Soyuz TM 10.2002 ISS-7 (5S) Malenchenko Moshchenko Lu Krikalyov Surayev Richards Soyuz TM 10.2002 STS-118 (12A.1) 02.2003 Igor Lissov From JamesOberg@aol.com Sat Nov 25 15:27:56 2000 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:27:56 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia Sends Hundreds Of AA Missiles To Iran JimO: This is from the "Middle East Newsline", which monitors Israeli and other regional newspapers. Their scary headline would better have read, "AA Missiles". Russia Sends Hundreds Of Missiles To Iran http://www.menewsline.com/headline9.html 11-25-00 MOSCOW (MENL) - Russia has dismissed the threat of additional U.S. sanctions on its companies linked to Iranian missile and nonconventional programs amid plans to export hundreds of missiles to Teheran. The Israeli Yediot Aharonot daily reported on Friday that Russia plans to send 325 shoulder-fired SA-16 anti-aircraft missiles to Iran. The SA-16 is regarded as the most effective missile deployed in the former East Bloc and Israeli sources fear that they will be transported to the Hizbullah in Lebanon. The shipment is part of a deal to export 700 SA-16 missiles to Iran as part of a $1.75 billion contract. Yediot quoted U.S. sources as saying hundreds of missiles have been placed on a Russian train and ship for Iran. Russian officials said Moscow would not allow the United States or any other country to dictate its policy. At the same time, they said that Russia would honor nonproliferation accords. Moscow has informed the United States that it will withdraw from a 1995 understanding that would end arms sales to Iran. The termination of the agreement takes effect on Dec. 1. "Russia bases its acts on close adherence to its international commitments, also in the case of Iran," Russian Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev said. "We fulfil all international requirements on non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction." From dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu Sat Nov 25 19:49:41 2000 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:49:41 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Barkley dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia Sends Hundreds Of AA Missiles To Iran Jim: Any chance that these SA-16's may go the way of the SA-2's and someday make up a booster stage for a SSM or SLV? Dan Barkley Russia Sends Hundreds Of Missiles To Iran http://www.menewsline.com/headline9.html 11-25-00 MOSCOW (MENL) - Russia has dismissed the threat of additional U.S. sanctions on its companies linked to Iranian missile and nonconventional programs amid plans to export hundreds of missiles to Teheran. The Israeli Yediot Aharonot daily reported on Friday that Russia plans to send 325 shoulder-fired SA-16 anti-aircraft missiles to Iran. The SA-16 is regarded as the most effective missile deployed in the former East Bloc and Israeli sources fear that they will be transported to the Hizbullah in Lebanon. The shipment is part of a deal to export 700 SA-16 missiles to Iran as part of a $1.75 billion contract. Yediot quoted U.S. sources as saying hundreds of missiles have been placed on a Russian train and ship for Iran. Russian officials said Moscow would not allow the United States or any other country to dictate its policy. At the same time, they said that Russia would honor nonproliferation accords. Moscow has informed the United States that it will withdraw from a 1995 understanding that would end arms sales to Iran. The termination of the agreement takes effect on Dec. 1. "Russia bases its acts on close adherence to its international commitments, also in the case of Iran," Russian Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev said. "We fulfil all international requirements on non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction." _______________________________________________ FPSPACE mailing list FPSPACE@friends-partners.org http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/fpspace From routier@tig.com.au Sat Nov 25 22:15:24 2000 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:15:24 +1100 From: Brett Harrison routier@tig.com.au Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia Sends Hundreds Of AA Missiles To Iran Dan Barkley wrote: > > Jim: > > Any chance that these SA-16's may go the way of the SA-2's and someday > make up a booster stage for a SSM or SLV? I think that's unlikely with a *shoulder-launched* missile, Dan. The SA-16 is a Russian equivalent of the US' man-portable, shoulder-fired Stinger. > The Israeli Yediot Aharonot daily reported on Friday that Russia plans to > send 325 shoulder-fired SA-16 anti-aircraft missiles to Iran. The SA-16 is > regarded as the most effective missile deployed in the former East Bloc and > Israeli sources fear that they will be transported to the Hizbullah in > Lebanon. -- Brett Harrison "If the law was worth a damn, we wouldn't need lawyers at all!" - Peter Fable (1996) From dave.woods@lmco.com Sat Nov 25 22:16:18 2000 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:16:18 -0500 From: Woods, Dave dave.woods@lmco.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia Sends Hundreds Of AA Missiles To Iran The SA-16 Gimlet is an upgrade of the SA-7 shoulder launched IR seeker (as in jet engine exhaust heat). Not much payload potential there for an SLV, but ample opportunity to cause a lot of mischief with civilian and military aircraft. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Barkley [SMTP:dbarkley@orion.oac.uci.edu] > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 2:50 PM > To: Friends&Partners > Cc: Tim McCarthy > Subject: [FPSPACE] Russia Sends Hundreds Of AA Missiles To Iran > > Jim: > > Any chance that these SA-16's may go the way of the SA-2's and someday > make up a booster stage for a SSM or SLV? > > Dan Barkley > > Russia Sends Hundreds > Of Missiles To Iran > http://www.menewsline.com/headline9.html > 11-25-00 > From albonnici@vol.net.mt Sun Nov 26 18:45:44 2000 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:45:44 +0100 From: Alex Michael Bonnici albonnici@vol.net.mt Subject: [FPSPACE] Precursor to our own Von Neumann Nano Probes --------------9457526B46C5D60E385FD23C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Gang, I just got a reference to the following article from The News From Bootes News Group concerning a new development in microrobotics. This could be the precursor to our own Von Neumann machines and interplanetary and intersteller probes. Beware this URL is very long you may have to cut and paste it twice to make it fit in the URL locator of your browser. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/11/20/MN62513.DTL&type=science Alex Michael Bonnici http://www.geocities.com?CapeCanaveral/8505 --------------9457526B46C5D60E385FD23C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
   Hello  Gang,
   I just got a reference to the following article from The News From Bootes News
   Group concerning a new development in microrobotics. This could be the
   precursor to our own Von Neumann machines and interplanetary and intersteller
   probes.

   Beware this URL is very long you may have to cut and paste it twice to make it fit
   in the URL locator of your browser.

   http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/11/20/MN62513.DTL&type=science
 

   Alex Michael Bonnici

http://www.geocities.com?CapeCanaveral/8505
  --------------9457526B46C5D60E385FD23C-- From JHarford@compuserve.com Sun Nov 26 18:53:44 2000 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:53:44 -0500 From: james harford JHarford@compuserve.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Russian kudo for "Challenge.." Vladimir Syromiatnikov, in a phone call from Moscow that covered several subjects, made special mention of how highly he thought of your "Challenge to Apollo" book, Asif. He said he thought it was a remarkable job, and of course I agreed. He found it hard to believe, as I do, that you wrote the book without making even one trip to Russia. "KOROLEV" was the product of some 16 trips to USSR and Russia over the years! Syro's praise is special because, as I'm sure you know, he worked in the Korolev design bureau back to Sputnik days and is still there--Russia's top expert on design and operation of docking systems and solar reflectors. Once again, take a bow! Is it being nominated for a Pulitzer? Jim Harford From albonnici@vol.net.mt Sun Nov 26 18:55:59 2000 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:55:59 +0100 From: Alex Michael Bonnici albonnici@vol.net.mt Subject: [FPSPACE] Von Neumann Interstellar Nano Probes Hello Again, Check out these references concerning the possibility of launching our very own Von Neumann interstellar Nano Probes : http://www.iase.cc/html/starseed.htm http://www.iase.cc/html/launcher.htm Alex From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Sun Nov 26 19:51:20 2000 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:51:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Russian kudo for "Challenge.." On Sun, 26 Nov 2000, james harford wrote: > Vladimir Syromiatnikov, in a phone call from Moscow that covered several > subjects, made special mention of how highly he thought of your "Challenge > to Apollo" book, Asif. He said he thought it was a remarkable job, and of > course I agreed. He found it hard to believe, as I do, that you wrote the > book without making even one trip to Russia. I've started a fund titled "Send Asif to Russia" and am taking contributions. So far we have enough money to send him surface mail, parcel post, in a medium-size crate. If somebody will donate a pillow, some blankets, and some canned goods, he should be quite comfortable. DDAY From JamesOberg@aol.com Mon Nov 27 03:54:46 2000 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:54:46 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] AP: American millionaire confident Russians will honor his ticket to space JimO: Anybody know any specific barriers to Tito riding the Soyuz replacement to ISS on April 30? Who at NASA has effective yay-or-nay control over this idea? Nov. 26, 2000 American millionaire confident Russians will honor his ticket to space STAR CITY, Russia (AP) - For years, people have talked of traveling to space as tourists, but it has only been talk - until now. Dennis Tito, who started dreaming of space flight when he watched Sputnik's launch as a teen-ager, who worked as a rocket scientist charting paths to planets, then switched to investing and became a multimillionaire, has a ticket to ride. The fit, 60-year-old Californian has left his 30,000-square-foot Pacific Palisades mansion for two rooms in the Star City cosmonaut training center in Russia to prepare for the launch, which could come early next year. He has deposited millions of dollars - each one worth 28 rubles - in an escrow account, to be released to the cash-strapped Russian space authorities the moment he is launched as the first space tourist, but not a millisecond before. That's all in his contract, his ticket. ''The key is launch,'' Tito said recently during an interview in Star City. ''All they have to do is light the rockets and the escrow opens up and they get all the money. And it's a lot of money. ... There's a real strong incentive, I think, for the Russians to fly me.'' But the question remains: Which space station will he fly to? There's a chance, however slight, it will be a turn-out-the-lights mission in January to the Russian Space Agency's abandoned Mir. A suicide dive is planned for February, and a crew will be sent beforehand only if a problem in preparations arises. More likely it will be a taxi ride to the newly occupied, NASA-led international space station Alpha. In April, the attached Soyuz capsule, the crew's lifeboat, needs to be replaced. Tito says the pendulum has swung toward Alpha in light of Russia's recent decision to ditch Mir. Either way, if he hasn't left Earth by June 30, 2001, the deal's off. That's also in his contract with the Russians. ''I just hope this doesn't become some kind of a political mess between the two agencies or the two countries,'' he says with a sigh at the end of the training day, weary from the uncertainty surrounding his promised mission, not from the work. A clash of titans, though, may be coming. Yuri Semyonov, president and general designer of Russia's RSC Energia corporation, says he's committed to honoring Tito's contract. He doesn't need NASA's or anyone else's permission to launch Tito on a Soyuz capsule to Mir, or to the international space station if Mir can be decommissioned by autopilot, Semyonov says huffily. NASA Administrator Daniel Goldin finds the whole matter distasteful. It's wrong, he contends, to peddle spaceship seats to rich guys looking for fun. ''I can't tell the Russians what to do. They're a sovereign program, a sovereign nation,'' Goldin says. ''But we do have a part to play in it because the lives, the safety of the astronauts are at stake,'' along with the future of the space station. The NASA chief worries that Tito's deal could spur ticket demand for the international space station. And yet, he says, spare seats on Russian Soyuz rockets should go to European or Japanese astronauts who have been training for years, not to wealthy ''spectators.'' The would-be space tourist insists he's more than a spectator. The oldest child of working-class Italian immigrants became smitten with space the same way many did: with the launch of the first space satellite, the Soviet Union's Sputnik, in 1957. ''That opened the Space Age,'' he says, his eyes bright with the recollection. ''To have experienced the excitement of seeing the first Earth satellite and then at the same time experiencing the fear that the Soviet Union was way ahead of us in technology ... what I saw when I was 17 led me to enroll in aerospace engineering the next year.'' Tito ended up at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., in 1964, plotting the flight paths for NASA's Mariner probes to Mars and Venus. During that time, he once called the space agency to get information on becoming an astronaut, but it never went beyond that single phone call. Eventually, he put his dream on hold and changed course. Quitting his $15,000-a-year lab job to start his own investment business, he made his first million before he turned 40. His firm, Wilshire Associates, is a powerhouse that manages more than $10 billion in assets. At his quarters in the cosmonaut complex, a computer chirps constantly with e-mail messages from his home office in Santa Monica, Calif. Even as he built his business, though, the idea of space travel remained with him. In 1991, the now wealthy Tito, in Russia on business, found himself checking out the ''guest cosmonaut'' program, under which a Japanese TV reporter and a British chemist flew to Mir for a price. Tito was interested in participating, but the Soviet Union's collapse prevented that from happening. Then, earlier this year, he got a call from MirCorp, the Amsterdam-based firm trying to raise money to keep the space station going, with commercial applications in mind. MirCorp eventually signed ''Survivor'' producer Mark Burnett for a ''Destination Mir'' series. And ''Titanic'' director James Cameron expressed interest in a trip to Mir, but did not put down any money. Would Tito be interested, MirCorp wondered, in flying to a resurrected Mir? In April, MirCorp's bigwigs went to his home in the Pacific Palisades area of Los Angeles and, within 15 minutes, a deal was clinched. Tito, who's divorced with three children in their 20s, won't say how much he's paying for the one- to two-week space adventure. MirCorp's list price: $20 million. Recalling the deal as he sits amid the Russian woods, more than an hour's drive from Moscow, Tito says his willingness to undergo months of rigorous training - he's taking a break to go home for Thanksgiving - shows his serious intentions. Day after day at Star City, morning until evening is spent cramming. Besides classwork, Tito has endured eight times the force of Earth's gravity in the centrifuge and spent considerable time in a Soyuz mock-up. ''It's not a prison or anything,'' Tito said in early November, sitting in his Star City apartment. ''But it's a far cry from someone of my living standard would have.'' How many rooms are there in his Pacific Palisades home, by comparison? ''I never even counted them,'' he says. ''It's 30,000 square feet on nine acres with a guest house and a pool house, a running track. It's probably one of the biggest houses in the city.'' Trappings of success aside, Tito insists he's not ''just a wealthy guy who's looking for kicks.'' He stresses: ''I'm not crazy. ... I haven't let the success go to my head. I've let the success say: Look, let's take my life in more places. Let's make life more fulfilling.'' To be launched from the same pad where Sputnik soared would be especially gratifying, since it's Sputnik that motivated him 43 years ago. ''I could just see myself lying on my deathbed at 90,'' Tito says, ''and saying, 'Yeah, what a life. You did it all. You made the full circle.' '' There's nothing wrong with civilians shelling out cash for the opportunity to fly to space, says Alex Roland, a former NASA historian who teaches at Duke University. But to Mir - scene of an intense fire and near-catastrophic collision in 1997 and uninhabited since June? (The fate of Mir appears to be sealed: Russia's cabinet decided on Nov. 16 to abandon the space station and let it fall into the Pacific in February on its 15th birthday.) ''To think people would line up to pay big money to get on the Titanic like that ...,'' Roland says. Still, he called Tito's ''an open contract among consenting adults.'' NASA astronaut Ken Bowersox, who served as the backup for international space station skipper Bill Shepherd, considers it money well spent. ''It's not like the money is just going to waste,'' Bowersox notes. ''That money is going to go into the space program and it's going to pay for people over here, it's going to pay salaries. ... He's supporting the program and that helps us.'' Some at NASA worry about Tito's physical ability to handle a space trip. If anything goes wrong, the safety of the entire crew could be jeopardized by this cosmonaut-come-lately. ''He meets the parameters,'' Semyonov responds, noting Tito had to pass all the cosmonaut medical tests. Short, slim and bald, Tito looks years younger than 60. Evidence of a healthy lifestyle is everywhere in his Star City apartment: worn running shoes, whole-wheat pasta, organic tomato sauce, soy protein. He says he was inspired by John Glenn's return to orbit at age 77 in 1998: ''If he wasn't too old, I'm not too old.'' Yet he quickly notes, ''I'll be the oldest person to fly the first time. The oldest rookie.'' Tito insists he won't be shattered if the Russians break their contract and he never makes it to space. ''The way I look at it is, every day counts and every day I'm learning about manned space flight. I'm learning about systems. I'm not sacrificing anything in terms of my business. My business is trucking along. ''I'm learning how to be alone. I'm learning how a different society works. I'm meeting astronauts and cosmonauts. I'm living in a spartan environment and learning that I don't need all this wealth and if I didn't have this wealth, I'd still be happy. ''Oh, I've already won.'' From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Mon Nov 27 04:26:40 2000 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:26:40 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] AP: American millionaire confident Russians will On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 JamesOberg@aol.com wrote: > JimO: Anybody know any specific barriers to Tito riding the Soyuz replacement > to ISS on April 30? Who at NASA has effective yay-or-nay control over this > idea? I dunno about that, but I do comment on something related to it down below. I thought that this was generally a pretty decent article on Tito. It certainly makes him out to be an okay-guy, and it had some hard news in there about exactly when the money changes hands. Comments on that below. > American millionaire confident Russians will honor his ticket to space > ''The key is launch,'' Tito said recently during an interview in Star > City. ''All they have to do is light the rockets and the escrow opens up and > they get all the money. And it's a lot of money. ... There's a real strong > incentive, I think, for the Russians to fly me.'' Now this is interesting because previous reports said that MirCorp gained access to the last of Tito's money on December 1. This contradicts those reports. Now it is possible that Tito was scheduled to put the last of the money in escrow on Dec. 1. So maybe he put $5 million in on Nov. 1, and another $10 million in on Nov. 15, etc. But what it also indicates is that neither the Russians nor MirCorp gets the money until Tito is off the ground. That is not good for either of them, because they need the money NOW to keep things going. > Yuri Semyonov, president and general designer of Russia's RSC Energia > corporation, says he's committed to honoring Tito's contract. > He doesn't need NASA's or anyone else's permission to launch Tito on a > Soyuz capsule to Mir, or to the international space station if Mir can be > decommissioned by autopilot, Semyonov says huffily. But doesn't Semyonov need permission from the Russian space agency? Energia is not in charge of Russia's participation in the space station, so Semyonov has to get approval from somebody in the space agency, right? With that in mind, it is worth noting that a chief spokesperson for RSA, Gorbunov, keeps saying that Tito is not qualified to fly as a cosmonaut. (One wonders about the internal bureaucratic politics here. Does the cosmonaut office have something against Tito? There were certainly members of NASA's astronaut office who objected to passengers on the shuttle during the 80s, saying that they would get in the way.) So is it possible that the RSA tells Energia that Tito cannot fly? (My guess is that if Tito does not fly to ISS, it will all happen behind the scenes and nobody at NASA will ever publicly say anything.) DDAY From Palladium@aol.com Mon Nov 27 14:22:39 2000 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:22:39 EST From: Palladium@aol.com Palladium@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] RED MOON, new novel by DS Michaels, now available Dear fellow FPSpacers... My novel RED MOON, written with the help of fellow FPSpacers Mark Wade and David Harland, published by FireWord Press, is now available via Amazon.com. Here's a direct link for anyone who cares (or dares) to order it: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1930782128/o/qid=975296931/sr=8-1/ref=a ps_sr_b_1_3/106-4314669-1589214 The listing just popped up a couple days ago in a preliminary form, and lacks a synopsis and PW review. I'm told these will follow shortly. Thanks to Mark, David and everyone on this wonderful list for helping me with this project and seeing it to fruition! Please feel free to post reviews, good or bad (preferably good, of course), or provide me some feedback either directly or via this list. DS Michaels From lklaes@bbn.com Mon Nov 27 16:00:55 2000 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:00:55 -0500 From: Larry Klaes lklaes@bbn.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Interview with Mir astronatu Dr. David Wolf Dr. David Wolf spent 119 days on board the Russian space station Mir in 1997. Jennifer Laing reports on a recent presentation by Wolf at Johnson Space Center Houston, in which he spoke on living and working in space and the exciting possibilities offered by the International Space Station for research and development. Read the special article. A Universe Today Exclusive: http://www.universetoday.com/html/special/davewolf.html From JamesOberg@aol.com Mon Nov 27 16:50:58 2000 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:50:58 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Russians To Propose Redocking Progress To Test SW Patch Aerospace Daily - 27 November 2000 Progress may be used to test software fix at Station Alpha FLIGHT TEST: Cosmonaut Yuri Gidzenko may get another chance to demonstrate his prowess with the TORU manual docking system on Space Station Alpha. Flight controllers in Moscow suspect a software glitch kept the KURS automatic docking system from working properly when the latest Progress resupply capsule arrived, failing to distinguish clearly between the Zarya and Zvezda modules as it approached Zarya's nadir docking port. Last week Russian programmers were readying a software patch for uplinking. To test it, they were considering having Gidzenko use TORU to undock the Progress and back it off for another attempt at automatic docking with the updated KURS. With the Space Shuttle Endeavour due to deliver a new Station solar array next Sunday, the test will have to be done in time to get the Progress out of the way. If the Russians formally propose the test, watch NASA - which hasn't forgotten the harrowing 1997 Progress collision with Mir - push for a quick but stringent safety review. From JamesOberg@aol.com Mon Nov 27 21:24:19 2000 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:24:19 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Duma Resolution on Mir Jim asks, does anybody have the text of the resolution passed by the Duma on Friday concerning Mir? --- Duma dumps draft decision on keeping "Mir" in orbit Friday, November 24, 2000 9:52 AM EST MOSCOW, November 24 (Itar-Tass) - Russia's State Duma lower house of parliament has rejected without debate a draft resolution calling for the orbital space station "Mir" to be kept in orbit. The resolution was backed by 196 votes at a plenary meeting on Friday, short of the necessary minimum of 226 votes. The defeated resolution contained recommendations to the Cabinet to consider possibilities for financing further "Mir" activity in space. "The Mir research complex should continue its work in space because it is the only manned orbital station owned by Russia, which keeps it in the lead in developing space technologies," supporters of the resolution said. Duma deputies may resume the debate at a later date. - - - - - - - - - - - - State Duma calls for manned flight of Mir orbiting station Friday, November 24, 2000 11:46 AM EST MOSCOW, November 24 (Itar-Tass) - The State Duma thinks it necessary to continue the manned flight of the Mir orbiting station, says a resolution adopted at the Duma plenary meeting on Friday. The deputies voted twice to approve the resolution. The manned flight of the Mir will save over 100,000 jobs for scientists, engineers and workers of high skills, the lawmakers said. It will also promote science-consuming products and technologies, draw foreign investments and develop fundamental and applied exploration of space. The Mir will enable Russia "to counterbalance the U.S. ambitions of determining the world order on earth and in space," the lawmakers said. The preservation of the Mir and further scientific research on its board will help Russia to unite other countries and international organizations for the sake of space exploration, the deputies noted. From rui_barbosa\@clix.pt Tue Nov 28 01:05:33 2000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 01:05:33 -0000 From: Rui Manuel e Castro da Silva Barbosa rui_barbosa\@clix.pt Subject: [FPSPACE] Times in space and the duration of shuttle missions... Dear friends, I know that this questions doesn't has the importance of some subjects that hare here debated about the actual moment in space flight, but for some, like me who wants to have the perfect statistics about spaceflight, this is a question that put some problems in my statistics. Well, has we know, and by definition, an Earth day has the duration of about 24 hours. But, in reality, an Earth day is 23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds. In my database all space missions durations are with the 24 hour format. With so many missions now the 4 minute difference can be vey significant. I just want to know your opinion about this ( ... or do you think that I should go to a psychiatrist???? :) ). Othet question that I have is about the space shuttle missions. We star to count the duration of the mission with the SRB's ignition ... shouldn't we stop the count with the weels stop? Or just stop with the shuttle touchdown? ... ok, ok!!! I will search for my medicine!!! Greetings from Portugal to all!!!!!! Rui C. Barbosa, Braga, Portugal From kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Tue Nov 28 10:22:10 2000 Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:22:10 +0200 From: Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Subject: [FPSPACE] Visiting Fellowship for Asif the good-hearted Dwayne typed: >I've started a fund titled "Send Asif to Russia" and am taking >contributions. So far we have enough money to send him surface mail, >parcel post, in a medium-size crate. If somebody will donate a pillow, >some blankets, and some canned goods, he should be quite comfortable. Asif, apologies that South Africa's lousey foreign exchange rate ptevents me donating anything useful. I do have left over some 5 rouble plastic tokens for the Moscow tube train from 1997. But alas, I am told they have now been replaced by magnetic swipe cards. Still, that line on your c.v. should help you get a Fulbright or somethng or other? Unless there is red tape hassles like you are a Bangladeshi citizen resident in the USA, etc, etc. Keith From kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Tue Nov 28 10:42:46 2000 Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:42:46 +0200 From: Keith Gottschalk kgottschalk@uwc.ac.za Subject: [FPSPACE] Is Tito go for orbit? >escrow account, to be released to the cash-strapped Russian space authorities >the moment he is launched as the first space tourist, but not a millisecond >before. Very sensible. Now wonder he became richer than the rest of us. That's the only way he can ensure that corporations in the red will fly him. & even then, they might say "only if you pay an extra $ XX can you fly". While Energia needs the $$ now, some bank will oan them something against am excrow account - but not of course at prime rate. I think Dan Goldin is a) being ungracious to a veteran JPL - NASA employee; b) dog-in-the-manger attitude to "space passengers". How can one passenger on a passenger jet "endanger" the crew? In any disaster, the worst that can happen is that physical frailty means he will be left behind. Thie "passenger" has enough technology life skills to appreciate not to touch what you are told not to touch. That like all passengers you are under captain's orders. The 1st scheduled airtline passengers in the USA flew in an open cockpit behind the pilot (B-3 on the air mail contract). Commercial tourists should be welcomed as supplementary budget add-ons ! From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Tue Nov 28 14:36:57 2000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:36:57 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] Is Tito go for orbit? On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Keith Gottschalk wrote: > While Energia needs the $$ now, some bank will oan them something > against am excrow account - but not of course at prime rate. I think Energia could get a loan. MirCorp would have a harder time. But I think that MirCorp only gets a small percentage anyway--a "finder's fee." > I think Dan Goldin is > > a) being ungracious to a veteran JPL - NASA employee; A super-rich former-NASA employee. It's a little hard to feel sorry for a guy with a mansion in Pacific Palisades. > b) dog-in-the-manger attitude to "space passengers". How can one > passenger on a passenger jet "endanger" the crew? In any disaster, the > worst that can happen is that physical frailty means he will be left > behind. Thie "passenger" has enough technology life skills to > appreciate not to touch what you are told not to touch. That like all > passengers you are under captain's orders. My guess is that Goldin's statement covered a lot of things. The NASA astronaut corps probably still has vivid memories of flying with all kinds of passengers in the early 80s. They don't want to have a repeat of the Jake Garn experience. DDAY From robot@ultimax.com Tue Nov 28 18:31:40 2000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:31:40 -0400 From: Robert G Kennedy III robot@ultimax.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Re: FPSPACE digest, Vol 1 #137 - 5 msgs >Well, has we know, and by definition, an Earth day has the duration of about >24 hours. But, in reality, an Earth day is 23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds. In >my database all space missions durations are with the 24 hour format. With >so many missions now the 4 minute difference can be vey significant. If you write the equation of motion for an earth orbiting satellite, starting from first principles, and plug in: - gravitational constant (or earth's grav parameter in a different formed eq) - earth's equatorial radius, - earth's eccentricity - satellite inclination, and - orbital height = perigee = apogee = ~35800 km you will get a period of 1436 minutes plus a little bit, which is what we expect. Those 4 minutes per day are "lost" because, in addition to spinning like a top, the earth is also traveling around the sun in a curved path. To a observer fixed on earth's surface keeping time by a 24-hour clock, every day the sun would arrive at the same precise point over the observer's head about 4 minutes sooner that it did the day before. Multiply 365.25 x 4 minutes to see for yourself. If the orbital path were straight, i.e. infintesimal curvature, or the period was reckoned with respect to something really far away the galactic core (same thing) then a day really would be 24 hours long. But 24 is divisible by many numbers which makes it handy (base-12 math), so we use that. There are higher order corrections, viz: leap years, centuries, etc. but that's the main one. -- Robert Kennedy, PE http://www.ultimax.com From albonnici@vol.net.mt Tue Nov 28 20:25:58 2000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:25:58 +0100 From: Alex Michael Bonnici albonnici@vol.net.mt Subject: [FPSPACE] John F. Kennedy "We Choose To Go To The Moon" Speech At Rice University Hello Gang, If you want to listen to one of the most inspiring speeches of the 20th Century, made in an era when our political leadership dared to dream great dreams go to the following link: http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/jfk-space.htm It is sure to brighten your day. AD ASTRA, Alex Michael Bonnici http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8505 From routier@tig.com.au Tue Nov 28 21:08:23 2000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:08:23 +1100 From: Brett Harrison routier@tig.com.au Subject: [FPSPACE] John F. Kennedy "We Choose To Go To The Moon" Speech At Rice University Alex Michael Bonnici wrote: > > Hello Gang, > If you want to listen to one of the most inspiring speeches of > the 20th Century, made in an era when our political leadership dared to > dream great dreams go to the following link: > http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/jfk-space.htm Yep, this is a great speech! "We choose to go to the moon, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." Great stuff! Who was Kennedy's main speechwriter in those days? I read about him, but forgot his name... -- Brett Harrison "If the law was worth a damn, we wouldn't need lawyers at all!" - Peter Fable (1996) From JamesOberg@aol.com Tue Nov 28 22:46:56 2000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:46:56 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Feoktistov position in mid-1985? Just a question for something I'm writing, what was Konstantin Feoktistov's official position in 1985? Was he still a high official, or had he retired? For our Russian speaker friends: I've also been told his last name was a Russification of some Greek Orthodox religious official, a "theoctist", but I've never been able to find anything more. It doesn't appear to be that unusual a Russian name. Thanks! JimO From danroam@deepcold.com Wed Nov 29 04:00:57 2000 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:00:57 -0500 From: Dan Roam danroam@deepcold.com Subject: [FPSPACE] finally updated www.deepcold.com with new movies After months of promises, I finally completed and posted 4 new Quicktime clips of forgotten Soviet and American spacecraft in action: Dyna Soar, Zvezda and Spiral can now be viewed in all their fictitious glory at: http://www.deepcold.com Blue Gemini, MOL and the Soviet LK remain on the site as well. Be aware: the clips are BIG (from 6-12Mb each) and require Quicktime 4 to view, but I think they are worth the free plug-in download. I hope you all like 'em. Thanks, Dan ---- Dan Roam danroam@deepcold.com http://www.deepcold.com From bhen@tijd.com Wed Nov 29 10:59:58 2000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:59:58 +0100 From: Bart Hendrickx bhen@tijd.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Feoktistov position in mid-1985? Jim Oberg wrote : >Just a question for something I'm writing, what was Konstantin Feoktistov's >official position in 1985? Was he still a high official, or had he retired? According to "Who's who in space" he was forced to retire in 1990 after Semyonov took over from Glushko as general designer of NPO Energiya (Feoktistov had apparently been too outspoken about the Buran programme, which he considered a waste of money, and Semyonov happened to be the chief designer of Buran). I think that in 1985 he still had a high position within NPO Energiya (perhaps you should check the Energiya 1946-1996 book). Officially, he was a cosmonaut until 28 October 1987. He doesn't seem to provide many clues about his later career in his new book "Trayektoriya zhizni", which contains few autobiographic details from the period after his Voskhod mission, except that he was bumped from Soyuz T-3 in 1980 with only weeks to go before launch (he thinks because of some kind of conspiracy against him). >For our Russian speaker friends: >I've also been told his last name was a Russification of some Greek Orthodox >religious official, a "theoctist", but I've never been able to find anything >more. It doesn't appear to be that unusual a Russian name. What I've found is that "Feoktistov" is derived from the christian name "Feoktist", which in turn is a russification of the Greek name "Theoktistos" (literally "created by the gods"). Bart Hendrickx From WSpaceport@aol.com Wed Nov 29 11:31:06 2000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 06:31:06 EST From: WSpaceport@aol.com WSpaceport@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] Finally. . . Space to become a "Presidential issue" this Wednesday In a message dated Tue, 28 Nov 2000 3:32:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, Marianne Dyson writes: << We are sometimes so busy we miss history in the making! Let's not forget to share the excitement of the next space shuttle launch this Thursday. . .Long gone are the days when the TV channels will break in to show a launch, but thankfully, the Internet is always on. . .>> ****************************************** FWIW--It's my understanding that space will also become a "Presidential" issue on Wednesday night. . . . .Unfortunately, it's on NBC's "The West Wing." Although the ads have been highlighting the threat of a nuclear missile silo explosion in Russia, one of the other story arcs for Wednesday's episode is supposed to involve problems behind one of NASA's unmanned probes landing on the Red Planet. Sharp-eyed viewers will recall last season's cliffhanger from the multi-Emmy Award-winning series featured a storyline involving a shuttle mission with a stuck payload bay door; one of the crew members in jeapordy was the brother of "White House staffer Toby Ziegler". . . ~JS~ From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Wed Nov 29 15:14:16 2000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:14:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] John F. Kennedy "We Choose To Go To The Moon" Speech At Rice University On Wed, 29 Nov 2000, Brett Harrison wrote: > Yep, this is a great speech! "We choose to go to the moon, and do the other > things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." Great stuff! > Who was Kennedy's main speechwriter in those days? I read about him, but > forgot his name... Theodore Sorenson, who also served as an advisor (most speechwriters these days just write speeches). Sorenson also had input from a number of people on the Rice U speech, including his own brother, who worked for the US Information Agency. There is a new book out about the Kennedy era. The title escapes me, but the author notes that if you look at Kennedy's speeches as a senator, before Sorenson came along, you will see that JFK himself was not an inspiring orator. Sorenson wrote many of Kennedy's best speeches. Although he was great at inspiring language, one of his real strengths was his ability to write for Kennedy's unique cadence. He knew how Kennedy spoke--where he would pause for a breath or for emphasis--and wrote for that. DDAY From JamesOberg@aol.com Wed Nov 29 17:21:35 2000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:21:35 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] space.com: NASA Leaves Door Ajar For Tito Flight To ISS NASA Leaves Door Ajar For Tito Flight To ISS By Todd Halvorson Cape Canaveral Bureau Chief posted: 06:31 pm ET 27 November 2000 CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. – The chances of would-be space tourist Dennis Tito flying to the International Space Station next year might be slim to none, but NASA – at least publicly – isn’t completely slamming the door shut on the controversial idea. "I think we’d have to wait and see how it all works out," former NASA chief astronaut Robert Cabana, now the agency’s manager for international space station operations, told SPACE.com Tuesday during a news conference at Kennedy Space Center. Tito, a multimillionaire investment manager from California, had hoped to become the world’s first space tourist with a flight to the aging Russian space station Mir early next year. A former NASA engineer, Tito already has made partial payment on a $20 million ticket sold by the private company MirCorp and RKK Energia, the Russian company that operates Mir. The flight to Mir, however, appears to be "no-go" for launch. The Russian Aviation and Space Agency (Rosaviakosmos) said earlier this month that Mir will be sent on a destructive plunge through the atmosphere – and into the Pacific Ocean – a week after the station’s 15th anniversary in February. In a Nov. 16 interview with SPACE.com, Tito said he was working on a deal to launch aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft for a six-day stay at the new international station in late April. Both NASA and Rosaviakosmos officials at the time said the deal was news to them. Cabana, however, left the door slightly ajar. The topic, he said, is one that NASA officials are not currently negotiating with their counterparts at Rosaviakosmos. He added that Rosaviakosmos officials have said publicly that they have received no request from MirCorp or RKK Energia to fly Tito. At the same time, though, Cabana noted that NASA and its international partners still are in the early stages of a daunting string of critical missions aimed at building a 480-ton station – a job many considering the most complex engineering project of all time. "I think right now, at this point in the (station) assembly sequence, we have a tremendous job up there, and we want to have professional astronauts doing it," the veteran shuttle mission commander said. Still unclear: Whether NASA ultimately would take issue with any Russian move to fly Tito during the crucial early stages of station construction. "Whether or not we’d object or not, I can’t say at this time," Cabana said. "I’d have to wait and see what gets presented. We’ll evaluate it at the proper time when the Russians come to us and say this is something they want to do, and this is what they have worked out." From WSpaceport@aol.com Thu Nov 30 01:42:41 2000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:42:41 EST From: WSpaceport@aol.com WSpaceport@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] JFK Speech At Rice In a message dated 11/28/2000 9:08:57 PM, routier@tig.com.au writes: > Yep, this is a great speech! "We choose to go to the moon, and do the other > things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." Great stuff! > > Who was Kennedy's main speechwriter in those days? I read about him, but > forgot his name... Ted Sorensen. Although I think Kenny O'Donnell, and to a lesser extent, press secretary Pierre Salinger also were contributors. . . The Main Question I have is this: The audio of the speech is available at the website; where can one get the *video* (16mm film) of the speech in its' entirety? JFK Library in Boston? JSC film archives in Houston? I've seen snippets of the speech -- with two of the longest segments running about a minute or two each that were featured in the documentaries "The Space Movie" and "For All Mankind" -- but never the entire beginning to end. FYI -- "Thirteen Days" with Kevin Costner in the role of JFK adviser and personal friend Kenny O'Donnell during the Cuban Missile Crisis is due out around the holidays. I've seen the trailer and it looks pretty good. . .Remains to be seen how it will compare to William Devane's turn as JFK (with Martin Sheen as Bobby Kennedy) in the late 70's TV teleplay "The Missiles of October." ~JS~ From pete.d.jennings@lmco.com Thu Nov 30 05:33:24 2000 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:33:24 -0700 From: pete.d.jennings@lmco.com pete.d.jennings@lmco.com Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: Kennedy On Wed, 29 Nov 2000, Brett Harrison wrote: > Yep, this is a great speech! "We choose to go to the moon, and do the other > things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." Great stuff! Unfortunately, we never did "the other things." Kennedy was talking about nuclear thermal rockets. We'd probably have a Mars base by now, if we had done these other things. ---Pete Jennings Spacecraft Integration Manager International Launch Services From wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Thu Nov 30 06:17:32 2000 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 01:17:32 -0500 (EST) From: Dwayne Allen Day wayneday@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Subject: [FPSPACE] RE: Kennedy On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 pete.d.jennings@lmco.com wrote: > > Yep, this is a great speech! "We choose to go to the moon, and do > > the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are > > hard." > > Unfortunately, we never did "the other things." Kennedy was talking > about nuclear thermal rockets. No he wasn't. Nuclear thermal rockets are not mentioned in that speech. The text prior to that section reads: "There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation many never come again. But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?" "We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not only because they are easy, but because they are hard..." So clearly "the other things" refers to climbing mountains, flying the Atlantic and playing U Texas--i.e. other things that are difficult to do. > We'd probably have a Mars base by now, if we had done these other things. That's putting the cart in front of the horse. You build rockets because you have established a goal and need the rockets to get there. The United States sunk a lot of cash into nuclear rockets, but never established a goal that required them. DDAY From routier@tig.com.au Thu Nov 30 08:21:29 2000 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:21:29 +1100 From: Brett Harrison routier@tig.com.au Subject: [FPSPACE] JFK Speech At Rice DDAY is right about Sorensen writing for Kennedy's cadence. You read those words, and you can hear his voice. WSpaceport@aol.com wrote: > FYI -- "Thirteen Days" with Kevin Costner in the role of JFK adviser and > personal friend Kenny O'Donnell during the Cuban Missile Crisis is due out > around the holidays. > > I've seen the trailer and it looks pretty good. . .Remains to be seen how it > will compare to William Devane's turn as JFK (with Martin Sheen as Bobby > Kennedy) in the late 70's TV teleplay "The Missiles of October." I remember this show vividly, though I haven't seen it since. Made me realise what I'd lived through - I was too young to appreciate the actual events when they happened. -- Brett Harrison AKA "Spike" "If the law was worth a damn, we wouldn't need lawyers at all!" - Peter Fable (1996) From clj@emc.com Thu Nov 30 13:31:24 2000 Date: 30 Nov 2000 08:31:24 -0500 From: Chris Jones clj@emc.com Subject: [FPSPACE] JFK Speech At Rice Brett Harrison writes: WSpaceport@aol.com wrote: > FYI -- "Thirteen Days" with Kevin Costner in the role of JFK adviser and > personal friend Kenny O'Donnell during the Cuban Missile Crisis is due out > around the holidays. > > I've seen the trailer and it looks pretty good. . .Remains to be seen how it > will compare to William Devane's turn as JFK (with Martin Sheen as Bobby > Kennedy) in the late 70's TV teleplay "The Missiles of October." I remember this show vividly, though I haven't seen it since. Made me realise what I'd lived through - I was too young to appreciate the actual events when they happened. Yeah, I was 9, living in Rhode Island and about to move to Alaska. I remember seeing a map on TV, showing the ranges of the missiles in Cuba, and how they reached RI. I said something like, at least in Alaska we'll be out of range of those missiles. My father pointed out that Alaska was rather closer to a whole lot of Soviet Union-based missiles... To try to drag this to relevancy to this list, I am still awestruck by the difference between those days and today. The difficulties in our relations with Russia don't begin to compare with the cloud we all lived under in those days. I've tried to explain it to my kids, and they have a hard time understanding -- they think all our (both sides) leaders were nuts (which is an understandable conclusion). The Boston Globe had an interview with Arthur Schlesinger yesterday (currently online at http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/334/living/Schlesinger_Today_s_leaders_don_t_match_past_giants+.shtml, but it won't last for long) in which he talks about both the crisis and the movie. The relevant excerpts: Q. So there's still much to say about Camelot? A. Oh, yes. Two books about the Cuban Missile Crisis, for instance, show how lucky we were to have Kennedy as president during what was the most dangerous moment in the history of the world. We now know that there were 42,000 Soviet troops in Cuba, not 10,000. I was in Havana with Bob McNamara five years ago, when a former Soviet general said he had authorization to use tactical nuclear missiles if America invaded Cuba. McNamara practically fell out of his seat when he heard that. Q. Have you seen the new film ''Thirteen Days''? A. I have not. I read an early script, and Ted Sorensen and I consulted on it. Ted saw the film and told me it was Kenny O'Donnell saving the world. Now, Kenny was an admirable man, but he had nothing to do with the Cuban Missile Crisis. From JamesOberg@aol.com Thu Nov 30 15:20:54 2000 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:20:54 EST From: JamesOberg@aol.com JamesOberg@aol.com Subject: [FPSPACE] JFK Speech At Rice In a message dated 11/30/00 8:07:34 AM Central Standard Time, clj@emc.com writes: << Two books about the Cuban Missile Crisis, for instance, show how lucky we were to have Kennedy as president during what was the most dangerous moment in the history of the world. >> More self-serving Kennedyesque self-glorification, IMHO. If somebody else had been president, there might never would have been any Soviet missiles even REACH Cuba.